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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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Maybe soon when this resolves there will be a Josh Gordon style good news honeymoon period where everyone loves AB because of previous stat lines, and a sell window opens... 

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4 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Tom Brady got suspended for an on-field incident not a personal conduct issue away from the game of football. Not even remotely similar.

Conspiring with equipment guys to cheat by deflating footballs is hardly an on-field incident.  Sounds a whole lot more like personal conduct to me. :shrug:

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Just now, davearm said:

Conspiring with equipment guys to cheat by deflating footballs is hardly an on-field incident.  Sounds a whole lot more like personal conduct to me. :shrug:

Except it's not. The rules for proper football inflation are contained in the league game day operations manual and not meeting those requirements are considered a game day equipment violation. No matter how you slice it, the whole Deflatgate fiasco was based on actual football. The AB mess has nothing at all to do with football (potential inappropriate sexual conduct, lack of payment of debts, threatening text messages, throwing furniture off a building, etc.).

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Except it's not. The rules for proper football inflation are contained in the league game day operations manual and not meeting those requirements are considered a game day equipment violation. No matter how you slice it, the whole Deflatgate fiasco was based on actual football. The AB mess has nothing at all to do with football (potential inappropriate sexual conduct, lack of payment of debts, threatening text messages, throwing furniture off a building, etc.).

Earlier you stated Brady was suspended for an "on-field incident", which is clearly not the case.  Brady was suspended for a bunch of phone calls and texts.  Those obviously took place away from the field.

Those semantics notwithstanding, your assertion that nobody gets suspended without a police investigation is surely incorrect.  Brady is just one example.  If I cared enough to go digging I'm sure I could find others.

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14 minutes ago, davearm said:

Earlier you stated Brady was suspended for an "on-field incident", which is clearly not the case.  Brady was suspended for a bunch of phone calls and texts.  Those obviously took place away from the field.

Those semantics notwithstanding, your assertion that nobody gets suspended without a police investigation is surely incorrect.  Brady is just one example.  If I cared enough to go digging I'm sure I could find others.

Huh? Brady got suspended because the footballs were tested and found to be improperly inflated during the AFCC game against the Colts. That directly had to do with football. Brady did not get suspended for inappropriate player contact or criminal / legal reasons, which is what AB is going through. Sure, players have been suspended for on field issues, helmet to helmet hits, PED's, drug possession, failed drug tests, etc. before. That wasn't the point.

For instances of suspected CRIMINAL activity, if Brown were to be suspended, he would be the first player suspended based on incidents unreported to, and not investigated by, law enforcement. He would become the first player suspended for a civil case where the incidents were not even looked into by the police. What Brady did was not remotely close to a potential crime.

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I love this thread title.  Just so true in a few words.

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Patriots have “kicked the tires” on AB. Says there have been discussions about the player per Michael Giardi 

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10 minutes ago, whole-show said:

Patriots have “kicked the tires” on AB. Says there have been discussions about the player per Michael Giardi 

I know there's a deadline of 10 days or something like that for Gronk to sign if he plays this year, is that the same window for someone like AB? Is there a time frame that he needs to be on a roster for in order to play this year?

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12 minutes ago, Hu-Tang Clan said:

I know there's a deadline of 10 days or something like that for Gronk to sign if he plays this year, is that the same window for someone like AB? Is there a time frame that he needs to be on a roster for in order to play this year?

Was wondering the same, but I don’t believe so since AB is a free agent and Gronk is retired.

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13 minutes ago, Hu-Tang Clan said:

I know there's a deadline of 10 days or something like that for Gronk to sign if he plays this year, is that the same window for someone like AB? Is there a time frame that he needs to be on a roster for in order to play this year?

I dont think so. I would imagine it's because of Gronk "retiring" he has to notify them by the 30th if he plans to come back.

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Dropped Gallman for him. Don't really need WR depth but if he comes back he is a WR1. His upside is unmatched. If NE struggles again against Dallas I wouldn't be suprised if they sign him. Brady was clearly unhappy when they let him go and I would bet he has a strong voice behind "kicking the tires" on him.

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1 minute ago, RealReactions said:

Dropped Gallman for him. Don't really need WR depth but if he comes back he is a WR1. His upside is unmatched. If NE struggles again against Dallas I wouldn't be suprised if they sign him. Brady was clearly unhappy when they let him go and I would bet he has a strong voice behind "kicking the tires" on him.

And hey, AB sent Kraft that "j/k LOL" tweet

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Wouldn’t shock me at all if the Pats brought him back if the league allows him to play. They are desperate for a play maker and this might be their last shot at a SB.

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53 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Wouldn’t shock me at all if the Pats brought him back if the league allows him to play. They are desperate for a play maker and this might be their last shot at a SB.

does he play left tackle?

 

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53 minutes ago, ponchsox said:

Wouldn’t shock me at all if the Pats brought him back if the league allows him to play. They are desperate for a play maker and this might be their last shot at a SB.

Every year is said to be the Patriots last shot at a SB. If the defense can stay together and BB is still the coach, they may not have to score a ton of points and it may not matter if TB is the QB next year.

Over their past 16 games, NE has gone 14-2. If they beat DAL this week, that will actually improve to 15-1. In their last 16 games, the NE defense has only allowed 75 points in the first half of games (an average of 4.7 points). Overall, the defense has allowed 171 points across their last 16 games (10.7 ppg). (To be clear, opponents have scored more points than that based on turnovers committed by the NE offense that were returned for TD's).

And before people chime in that they haven't played anyone, those games include two games against PIT with Big Ben, three high scoring playoff teams from last year (LAC, KCC, LAR), and the Bills and Eagles from this year (and the Ravens). So there were 8 teams with non-losing records (half their games). Combining all of last year (HOU, IND, KC x 2, CHI, LAC, LAR) and this year (BUF, BAL), the Pats have gone 8-1 against playoff teams or likely playoff teams (and still face 4 potential playoff teams this year in DAL, HOU, KC, and BUF (with 3 of those games at home).

Put another way, if NE had only scored 17 points in every game this season, they would still be 9-1. Even with a ton of injuries to offensive personnel, the NE offense (JUST the offense) has averaged 24.3 ppg (ignoring the points scored by the defense).

Bottom line, the narrative that NE is in desperate need of a play maker is getting a little overblown these days. If their OL and WR's get healthy and the offense gets used to playing together (something that hasn't happened yet), they should be fine. They probably won't win games 41-27, but they should be in position to win games 27-13.

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32 minutes ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

does he play left tackle?

 

Lucky for NE, they actually are getting a LT back . . . which should make a huge difference.

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3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Bottom line, the narrative that NE is in desperate need of a play maker is getting a little overblown these days. If their OL and WR's get healthy and the offense gets used to playing together (something that hasn't happened yet), they should be fine. They probably won't win games 41-27, but they should be in position to win games 27-13.

Tom E Curran reporting that Sanu has a high ankle sprain and could be up several weeks. Dorsett has been dinged twice now. 

Everyone hoping I. Wynn solves all problems. I wonder.

They're already paying AB.

I don't know. It's possible. Bill B. is the only one in the NFL that would be able to stand at that podium stonefaced and just give everyone the stiff arm.

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Just now, kyoun1e said:

Tom E Curran reporting that Sanu has a high ankle sprain and could be up several weeks. Dorsett has been dinged twice now. 

Everyone hoping I. Wynn solves all problems. I wonder.

They're already paying AB.

I don't know. It's possible. Bill B. is the only one in the NFL that would be able to stand at that podium stonefaced and just give everyone the stiff arm.

I already posted several days ago that a return of AB was not entirely out of the question. Newhouse carries the lowest rating for a LT in the league according to PFF. Wynn doesn't have to come back and be a Top 5 LT. If he can just be replacement level, he would be a HUGE improvement. I think he will be better than average, so that will only help the offense.

Dorsett is probably 50/50 to play Sunday. He's a situational piece, not a difference maker. Brady needs to start using and trusting Harry and Meyers more. And they will use White and Burkhead more with Sanu out. In general, the offense should be able to put together 3-4 drives that end up in points on the scoreboard, even if that results in 1 TD and the rest FG's. When the defense adds in points or a forces a turnover in the red zone, that should get them 20 points each week (and more if they start to put things together).

Unfortunately, the way the offense is built and the deficiencies they have, that likely means running no huddle and Michel becomes pretty much useless. They aren't going to be able to run the ball effectively no matter what, so their best bet is to spread defenses out, not let them substitute, and occasionally audible a running play to White or Burkhead to scrap together a few rushing yards.

On defense, it seems like the only time opponents get a scoring drive lately is when a NE defender commits a penalty (or there are several penalties on a drive). They have been flagged at the worst times or else drives would have ended on  three and outs. If the defense keeps from getting flagged for penalties, I think they are as good as the numbers indicate. The Ravens game was the exception. I have watched some of the game again and the defensive scheme didn't work. They had guys keying on players but there were too many bodies in the way to get to them or they had the wrong angle to be able to tackle the ball carrier. Guys didn't cover the right gaps or didn't set the edge. BAL did a good job, but the NE chess pieces weren't in the right places. BB will clean that up if there is a rematch.

Who knows if AB will be back and the net impact he would have on the team. But I think it would be faulty logic to thing that he would have changed for the better. He still is a loose cannon.

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If the Patriots sign AB again, how large a signing bonus does he fleece them for this time?

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2 hours ago, Arodin said:

If the Patriots sign AB again, how large a signing bonus does he fleece them for this time?

Best part is when the Patriots trade him to the Raiders for a second round pick

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Quote

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots are not interested in re-signing free agent WR Antonio Brown.

A rumor surfaced earlier Thursday to that effect, but it is in no way surprising coach Bill Belichick will not be touching that third rail again. With Brown's off-the-field issues still far from sorted, it would be extremely surprising were he to see the field again in 2019, while his entire NFL career remains in grave doubt.

RELATED: 

New England Patriots

SOURCE: Jeff Howe on Twitter

Nov 21, 2019, 10:22 PM ET

 

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What can realistically be expected if Pats sign AB in terms of Commissioners exempt list and the NFL investigation of the assault /rape allegations? Does he really play this year? 

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On 11/22/2019 at 7:29 AM, pghrob said:

What can realistically be expected if Pats sign AB in terms of Commissioners exempt list and the NFL investigation of the assault /rape allegations? Does he really play this year? 

After this week, AB will have missed 11 games. He’s served a de facto suspension already. I doubt the league would exempt or suspend him to give him even more time off. It could take years for his civil suit to be resolved. 

That being said, I think the league will either stay out of the way and allow him to come back to the Patriots or run interference and let AB deal with finding a new team in the off season. The reason I say that is NE will likely have to pay him for this year anyway, so the league may give them a chance to get something out of him. I don’t think the league wants AB getting the go ahead and then immediately signing with a direct competitor to NE when they will be the ones paying him. 

I’m still not sure how Brown ended up off the Patriots roster. Who knows if the league pressures the team to bench him release him, or have him go on the exempt list. I know it’s been reported Kraft insisted Brown get the boot, but the whole way it went down seemed really odd. 

Edited by Anarchy99
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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

After this week, AB will have missed 11 games. He’s served a de facto suspension already. I doubt the league would exempt or suspend him to give him even more time off. It could take years for his civil suit to be resolved. 

That being said, I think the league with either stay out of the way and allow him to come back to the Patriots or run interference and let AB deal with finding a new team in the off season. The reason I say that is NE will likely have to pay him for this year anyway, so the league may give them a chance to get something out of him. I don’t think the league wants AB getting the go ahead and then immediately signing with a direct competitor to NE when they will be the ones paying him. 

I’m still not sure how Brown ended up off the Patriots roster. Who knows if the league pressures the team to bench him release him, or have him go on the exempt list. I know it’s been reported Kraft insisted Brown get the boot, but the whole way it went down seemed really odd. 

I very much doubt the NFL would view the last couple months as a "de facto suspension".  When you're suspended, you have to miss games you otherwise would have been playing in.

Being unsigned/unwanted is not the same thing as being suspended.

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He hasn’t missed a single game due to suspension.  He’s missed games because he’s a greedy, self centered, idiot 

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Rumors back to Patriots?  I mean again, after it was shot down by Howe the first time. 

Seems unlikely but who knows I guess. 

Edited by kittenmittens

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33 minutes ago, davearm said:

I very much doubt the NFL would view the last couple months as a "de facto suspension".  When you're suspended, you have to miss games you otherwise would have been playing in.

Being unsigned/unwanted is not the same thing as being suspended.

Disagree. This similar thought process has been make the rounds on talk shows. AB wasn’t signed because the league effectively told teams he would go on the exempt list if he was rostered and teams would be paying him not to play. Unless there is something additional that the league has uncovered, IMO he will get leniency for time not playing. 

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45 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Disagree. This similar thought process has been make the rounds on talk shows. AB wasn’t signed because the league effectively told teams he would go on the exempt list if he was rostered and teams would be paying him not to play. Unless there is something additional that the league has uncovered, IMO he will get leniency for time not playing. 

Why hasn't any team signed him now, since his "de facto suspension" has been served?

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23 minutes ago, davearm said:

Why hasn't any team signed him now, since his "de facto suspension" has been served?

Because the league hasn't signed off that they won't do anything to him. IMO, they will at some point come out and say they have investigated and unless other information comes to light they won't do anything to AB. How long do you think they won't do anything and THEN decide to punish him? That's pretty much doubling down on a punishment. 

Look at Kareem Hunt as an example. There were similar incidents with ADP and Ray Rice. They missed almost entire seasons. Hunt was initially placed on the exempt list but then released right after. He sat as a free agent for awhile, then he was signed and suspended, and he ended up missing almost a year's worth of games. Essentially, they took what previously had been a year time out (whether it be by suspension, exception, or sitting as a free agent) to come up with a similar amount of time missed. They accomplished that by suspending him for 8 games when he could have been suspended a year. In Peterson's case, they actually tried to suspend him but that got appealed and eliminated. IIRC, all three of those cases involved the police and/or video or photographic evidence.

As of now and as far as we know , we don't have any of that with AB. Do people expect that he essentially misses the 2019 season and then he will still get exempted or suspended? Teams have avoided signing him because they would have to burn the money and cap room to not have him playing, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

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2 hours ago, Wrigley said:

He hasn’t missed a single game due to suspension.  He’s missed games because he’s a greedy, self centered, idiot 

 

But besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

;)

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26 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Because the league hasn't signed off that they won't do anything to him. IMO, they will at some point come out and say they have investigated and unless other information comes to light they won't do anything to AB. How long do you think they won't do anything and THEN decide to punish him? That's pretty much doubling down on a punishment. 

Look at Kareem Hunt as an example. There were similar incidents with ADP and Ray Rice. They missed almost entire seasons. Hunt was initially placed on the exempt list but then released right after. He sat as a free agent for awhile, then he was signed and suspended, and he ended up missing almost a year's worth of games. Essentially, they took what previously had been a year time out (whether it be by suspension, exception, or sitting as a free agent) to come up with a similar amount of time missed. They accomplished that by suspending him for 8 games when he could have been suspended a year. In Peterson's case, they actually tried to suspend him but that got appealed and eliminated. IIRC, all three of those cases involved the police and/or video or photographic evidence.

As of now and as far as we know , we don't have any of that with AB. Do people expect that he essentially misses the 2019 season and then he will still get exempted or suspended? Teams have avoided signing him because they would have to burn the money and cap room to not have him playing, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

The NFL hasn't punished AB at all to this point.  He hasn't been fined a dime, and hasn't missed any time due to suspension.  He's been out of the league because of his own lunacy and toxicity, not because of any actions taken by the league office.

If the league's investigation determines he should be suspended or otherwise disciplined, then that will take effect once he's actually back in the league (if that ever happens).

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This guy is a cancer.  Why any GM would want to infect their organization with this POS is beyond me.  His talent does not outweigh the headache/drama/issues he brings to a locker room. 

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Like Larry Fitzgerald said, be careful what you ask for. Meaning AB had a pretty good thing going in PIT with Big Ben throwing bombs and Lev Bell. Nothing could be done about Big Ben going down, but the other two could have remained PIT steelers and they most likely would be in the playoff hunt because their defense is pretty solid. Anyway, that's all water under bridge gone bad.

Perhaps AB being shunned will knock some sense into his primadonna skull.

Fire up Chips!

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58 minutes ago, Team Smokin' said:

Like Larry Fitzgerald said, be careful what you ask for. Meaning AB had a pretty good thing going in PIT with Big Ben throwing bombs and Lev Bell. Nothing could be done about Big Ben going down, but the other two could have remained PIT steelers and they most likely would be in the playoff hunt because their defense is pretty solid. Anyway, that's all water under bridge gone bad.

Perhaps AB being shunned will knock some sense into his primadonna skull.

Fire up Chips!

AB could also have gone to Oakland for the guaranteed $30 million, kept his mouth shut and still been in the playoff hunt.    

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1 hour ago, Team Smokin' said:

Like Larry Fitzgerald said, be careful what you ask for. Meaning AB had a pretty good thing going in PIT with Big Ben throwing bombs and Lev Bell. Nothing could be done about Big Ben going down, but the other two could have remained PIT steelers and they most likely would be in the playoff hunt because their defense is pretty solid. Anyway, that's all water under bridge gone bad.

Perhaps AB being shunned will knock some sense into his primadonna skull.

Fire up Chips!

Sometimes I wonder if people forget about the salary cap. The Steelers have $600,00 of cap space. Other players currently on the roster would not be there if Brown and Bell were still there. And with Ben out, I am not sure those two would make up for the loss of Roethlisberger. Even as things stand now, PIT is only a game out of a playoff spot.

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On 11/19/2019 at 12:59 PM, Anarchy99 said:

Tom Brady got suspended for an alleged on-field incident not a personal conduct issue away from the game of football. Not even remotely similar.

Fixed that for you.

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11 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Rumors back to Patriots?  I mean again, after it was shot down by Howe the first time. 

Seems unlikely but who knows I guess. 

The first thing people would talk about if the Pats signed him would be what he said about Kraft and the massage parlor stuff. I don't see how Kraft would want to bring that up again. It also show's how stupid AB was to go down that path in the first place. That being said, the window does seem to be closing for the Patriots so I agree with who knows.

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7 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

AB could also have gone to Oakland for the guaranteed $30 million, kept his mouth shut and still been in the playoff hunt.    

AB sucks.  Still hope he doesn't play in the NFL again.   

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2 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

lol

Would have been better if there was an asian "massage therapist" in bed with Kraft

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