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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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56 minutes ago, Sir Psycho said:

Antonio Brown‏Verified account @AB84

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Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward.......... #NewDemands

Does this immature moron realize he is under contract? Probably not, he probably couldn't read anything on it. I hope the trade offers are so bad that the Steelers have to keep him. Then just deactivate his dumb a@@ for the entire season. 

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1 hour ago, Sir Psycho said:

Antonio Brown‏Verified account @AB84

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Thank you SteelerNation for a big 9 years...time to move on and forward.......... #NewDemands

 

For Pete’s sake.  He wants to be traded so badly, and then does a bunch of stuff that diminishes his value and costs PIT leverage in trying to move him.  This guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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Well this escalated quickly. What are the Steelers even going to get at this point? A 4th?

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1 minute ago, jtd13 said:

Well this escalated quickly. What are the Steelers even going to get at this point? A 4th?

If they're lucky.  At this point getting rid of him is addition by subtraction

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35 minutes ago, jtd13 said:

Well this escalated quickly. What are the Steelers even going to get at this point? A 4th?

We've been assured he will command a 1st.  

I do think Pittsburgh showed us last year that they are not going to be bullied into giving up a player for nothing. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

For Pete’s sake.  He wants to be traded so badly, and then does a bunch of stuff that diminishes his value and costs PIT leverage in trying to move him.  This guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

This is so common that every player should know better.  Once a player makes a public trade demand the compensation other teams will offer goes way down.

If you actually want to be traded, quietly tell your GM and keep your mouth shut until the deal is done. 

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As a 49er fan, I'd love to have his production but man, he's really gone off the deep end. The rumor is if the Niners don't land Brown, Emmanuel Sanders could be a back up plan...

If picking between those two I'd rather have Brown as he's more of a difference maker on the field, and Sanders is coming off an Achilles injury, but both are short term answers given their age.

Ugh.

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12 minutes ago, Wingnut said:

As a 49er fan, I'd love to have his production but man, he's really gone off the deep end. The rumor is if the Niners don't land Brown, Emmanuel Sanders could be a back up plan...

If picking between those two I'd rather have Brown as he's more of a difference maker on the field, and Sanders is coming off an Achilles injury, but both are short term answers given their age.

Ugh.

Predicting aging process is never easy but I think he's got more left in the tank then you think.  I have often said I think he as at least 3 big time seasons left in him. 

Some valid reasons IMO to think he will hold up well. Lack of serious injuries/surgeries, work ethic, relies on quickness more then speed,  and lastly while he may make some poor decisions off the field on the field he's a brilliant tactician.  I know it's easy to knock AB now, but he did not just put out the best 5-6 year run a WR's has ever had because he was bigger or then anyone or dominating people physically.

The Steeler fan in me hates to see AB leave. The AB dynasty owner in me thinks SF is an upgrade for him and should he find himself in SF he will easily be my #1WR next season. You got a coach who threw it 203 times to Julio one year and 182 times to Garcon another year. It's a match made in heaven but as of last week some SF beat writers I follow seemed to not think it was that likely to happen.

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

This is so common that every player should know better.  Once a player makes a public trade demand the compensation other teams will offer goes way down.

If you actually want to be traded, quietly tell your GM and keep your mouth shut until the deal is done. 

Don't agree with you guys here. Why would they want their old team to get maximum compensation? Well I do agree with behind the scenes is probably the easiest way to make it work, but if you were getting traded, you'd want your new team to not pay as much.

Edited by IHEARTFF

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32 minutes ago, IHEARTFF said:

Don't agree with you guys here. Why would they want their old team to get maximum compensation? Well I do agree with behind the scenes is probably the easiest way to make it work, but if you were getting traded, you'd want your new team to not pay as much.

I would say it's so the team can actually meet your trade demand.  You usually can't have it both ways - it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Do you want what's good for you, or what's bad for the team?

Would Pittsburgh trade AB for a 1st and eat the dead cap?  Probably.

Will they trade him for a 4th and eat the dead cap?  Probably not.

Edited by kittenmittens

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I'd like him in Washington please. No idea who throws him the ball, but I'll happily take him. Its been since, shoot Art Monk or Gary Clark since we've had a legit #1 WR? ( I don't count Coles or S. Moss as true #1 WRs, ideal #2 or slot guys) 

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2 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I'd like him in Washington please. No idea who throws him the ball, but I'll happily take him. Its been since, shoot Art Monk or Gary Clark since we've had a legit #1 WR? ( I don't count Coles or S. Moss as true #1 WRs, ideal #2 or slot guys) 

Would you trade their 2019 or 2020 first for him? 

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I think what will impact AB's trade market more then anything you hear or read about in the press or social media is if Steelers give permission to teams to speak with Rosenhaus. It's quite possible AB took this ploy today because that permission has not yet been granted.

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18 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I think what will impact AB's trade market more then anything you hear or read about in the press or social media is if Steelers give permission to teams to speak with Rosenhaus. It's quite possible AB took this ploy today because that permission has not yet been granted.

If I were the Steelers, I would talk to other teams directly and keep AB and his agent out of it.   AB is under contract and can be traded anywhere... he doesn't have to agree or like it.  Now, other teams might want to talk to them before finalizing a trade to gage ABs interest, but I would not give AB permission to seek a trade o  his own.

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3 hours ago, menobrown said:

Predicting aging process is never easy but I think he's got more left in the tank then you think.  I have often said I think he as at least 3 big time seasons left in him. 

Some valid reasons IMO to think he will hold up well. Lack of serious injuries/surgeries, work ethic, relies on quickness more then speed,  and lastly while he may make some poor decisions off the field on the field he's a brilliant tactician.  I know it's easy to knock AB now, but he did not just put out the best 5-6 year run a WR's has ever had because he was bigger or then anyone or dominating people physically.

The Steeler fan in me hates to see AB leave. The AB dynasty owner in me thinks SF is an upgrade for him and should he find himself in SF he will easily be my #1WR next season. You got a coach who threw it 203 times to Julio one year and 182 times to Garcon another year. It's a match made in heaven but as of last week some SF beat writers I follow seemed to not think it was that likely to happen.

How can anywhere be an upgrade? He’s been the top FF WR for a while now. Upgrading from that is nearly impossible.

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3 minutes ago, Steeler said:

If I were the Steelers, I would talk to other teams directly and keep AB and his agent out of it.   AB is under contract and can be traded anywhere... he doesn't have to agree or like it.  Now, other teams might want to talk to them before finalizing a trade to gage ABs interest, but I would not give AB permission to seek a trade o  his own.

This is what I'm mainly talking about here but needs to be before it is finalized and team specific. Meaning he does not get permission to speak to anyone, he gets permission to maybe speak to SF as an example.

Dallas did something similar before they pulled trigger on trade for Amari. Jerry said he would not do it until he got assurances that Cooper was not going to immediately want to talk about his 2019 contract.

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5 minutes ago, kutta said:

How can anywhere be an upgrade? He’s been the top FF WR for a while now. Upgrading from that is nearly impossible.

That rationale does not make sense to me. Just because someone might be #1 at a position does not mean they can't improve their per game production.

 

I'd also mention he was not quite #1 last season and right now in FFPC ADP is getting drafted as WR6. Of course he might be falling to WR6 because of the unknown, but I feel pretty confident that if he magically worked out with Pittsburgh and returned he is no longer the #1WR off the board in drafts.

 I have several reasons, one touched on already, why I think a move to SF would seriously up his value to me in redraft but especially dynasty.

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4 minutes ago, menobrown said:

That rationale does not make sense to me. Just because someone might be #1 at a position does not mean they can't improve their per game production.

 

I'd also mention he was not quite #1 last season and right now in FFPC ADP is getting drafted as WR6. Of course he might be falling to WR6 because of the unknown, but I feel pretty confident that if he magically worked out with Pittsburgh and returned he is no longer the #1WR off the board in drafts.

 I have several reasons, one touched on already, why I think a move to SF would seriously up his value to me in redraft but especially dynasty.

Ok. I disagree. 

So you must think he’s going to destroy the field at WR next year? Because that’s about the only thing that can happen if he’s upgraded.

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A lot to unpack here. I'll start with his long term value in dynasty or keeper. He is age 30 and has had some issues that are concerning. He has been found guilty of reckless op. He has an alleged domestic issue with the Mother of his daughter regarding paying for a haircut which the NFL is looking into he allegedly pushed the woman to the ground. He walked away from his team when they needed him the most last season. The positive side was he dominated the competition at his position. You have to decide you are willing to risk him landing in a good location to make Brown worth paying for and believe it's a risk because the contract is affordable for almost all teams. It's a very friendly buy for the NFL team trading for Brown depending on what the Steelers want for compensation. I think there will be plenty of NFL teams picking up the phone.  I can see the 49ers, Colts, and Raiders being players for a deal.  All these teams have the cash and assets to get the deal done. The Raiders have 3 first rounders and the Colts have an extra 2nd rounder.  I can also see some dark horses putting in for Brown. Can you see Brown in Buffalo or god forbid Washington?? You get my point.  Washington would wreck Brown's value so there is a risk in trading for Brown now. If you want him though now is the time and still, expect to pay for him.

The soap opera should be fun to watch though if you were an NFL GM you have to get a good price for him to make it worth the cost to get him. I would think I would have to be taking a shot or think I have a shot at a Super Bowl run. I would be thinking short term. I would really want to vet the domestic issue Brown has rumored out there and I would not be paying a lot.  

I'm sure the Steelers will be pointing towards the Cowboy's giving a first for Cooper and saying Brown was and still is all that Cooper is currently though I think it would be ludicrous for a GM to pay that price with all the issues Brown has going for him.  The Steelers are in a tough spot. I think any team willing to pay out the nose is who the Steelers will deal with. I think it's a toss up where he lands but think he has played his last down as a Steeler. I'll predict he will be traded to the Colts or Niners and if I had to choose between the two. I'll go Colts. 

 

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36 minutes ago, kutta said:

How can anywhere be an upgrade? He’s been the top FF WR for a while now. Upgrading from that is nearly impossible.

Totally agree not sure how any location could be considered an upgrade much more likely his numbers come down. He really needs a great landing spot with a great QB for him to equal the numbers he has been producing.  Packers and Colts would be ideal but I can't think of a ton of other locations that I would consider he could put up the same numbers. Good debating the landing spots though. 

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51 minutes ago, kutta said:

Ok. I disagree. 

So you must think he’s going to destroy the field at WR next year? Because that’s about the only thing that can happen if he’s upgraded.

Don't know about destroying the field but 2 PPG can heavily alter a players rankings. Last year would taken him from like WR1 to WR6, from WR6 to WR11.

He's been two points better in his career. Don't think it's such a crazy thought to think he can't put out years like he had 2014 and 2015 and main reason those years he was better he was an 180+ target guy instead of a 160+ target guy.  I just don't see how you don't think that is possible to get back to that level.

Edited by menobrown

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2 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Would you trade their 2019 or 2020 first for him? 

no. they can't afford to with the holes they have :bag: Then again they have wasted countless 1st or 2nd round picks on WRs over the last decade (Gardner, Howard, Thomas, Doctson, Hankerson, Kelly, Westbrook, good lord its just awful) Yes, yes they can't draft a WR to save their lives so might as well trade for one.  And a pleasant reminder, they drafted Doctson over Michael Thomas. :rant:

Edited by ffmail4me
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2 hours ago, ZenoRazon said:

God

My Niners sure could use Antonio Brown.

Please.

For what?  This year’s first?  Or this year’s second and next year’s first?

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26 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

For what?  This year’s first?  Or this year’s second and next year’s first?

Now it's sit down cool the silly wishes and do some serious work, nay.

Edited by ZenoRazon

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25 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

For what?  This year’s first?  Or this year’s second and next year’s first?

I'd be shocked if he pulled that much in a trade. 

The 49ers could use him but they're in good position with kittle, pettis and their backs and aren't quite ready to contend so it would be an ill advised rental. 

The 3 teams that would make ther most sense to me are the bears, packers and bills.  Honorable mention to the eagles. 

Obviously the packers would be best from a fantasy standpoint, but he'd also fix their biggest problem on offense and make them an immediate superbowl contender. 

The bears need a stud for mitch. I wouldn't normally suggest breaking the bank for a receiver in their situation, but his contract would coincide with the mitch rookie contract window, and mitch would learn so much from having him that it's an investment in their future, too. 

The bills went to the playoffs for the first time in ages last year, and they're looking to build around a franchise qb who has some similarity to ben. They badly need someone to take the pressure off zay, and an elite receiver with experience playing in cold weather would be a perfect fit.  

The eagles could definitely use him and would be right back in contention if they made a move for him, plus it would be a short trip for brown and his fans, but trading him in state feels unlikely to me. 

Miami is straight up tanking this year.  The jets would love to get a stud wr but they aren't close to contending and can't afford to teach robbie Anderson any more bad lessons.  The afc north is obviously off limits, the titans and jags could use him but aren't good passing teams, the Texans and colts are competitors, the Broncos are already in a receiver rebuild, the raiders are in a total rebuild, and the chiefs and chargers are off limits. 

In the nfc west the seahawks would be interesting but they're retooling, and the rams and cards... no.  The vikings don't need him, the lions need so many things, the Falcons already have Julio and Calvin, the bucs have their share of needs, and the saints would be awesome but doubtful.  If cam was healthy the Panthers would make sense but i'd be hesitant to invest heavily in a veteran if i were them.  The giants could use another diva on offense but no.  Washington is nowhere close. And the cowboys already sent a first for cooper and are about to hit some tough csp decisions.  

It's really down to those 3 or 4 teams imo. 

 

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

Don't know about destroying the field but 2 PPG can heavily alter a players rankings. Last year would taken him from like WR1 to WR6, from WR6 to WR11.

He's been two points better in his career. Don't think it's such a crazy thought to think he can't put out years like he had 2014 and 2015 and main reason those years he was better he was an 180+ target guy instead of a 160+ target guy.  I just don't see how you don't think that is possible to get back to that level.

Of course it’s possible. It’s just extremely unlikely. 

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1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

 

The 49ers could use him but they're in good position with kittle, pettis and their backs and aren't quite ready to contend so it would be an ill advised rental. 

They're not that far from contending. 

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7 minutes ago, kutta said:

Of course it’s possible. It’s just extremely unlikely. 

Ok, I don't agree.

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Quote

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Steelers aren't willing to trade Antonio Brown to the Patriots or inside the AFC North.

It makes plenty of sense, as the Patriots are obviously the biggest thing standing in the Steelers' way in the AFC, and the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens are in Pittsburgh's division. Brown formally requested a trade on Tuesday and seems certain to be dealt this offseason; it just won't be to New England, though the Patriots are one of the more needy teams when it comes to wideouts.

RELATED:  

Cincinnati Bengals

, Cleveland Browns

, New England Patriots

, Baltimore Ravens

SOURCE: Jason La Canfora on Twitter

Feb 12, 2019, 6:07 PM

 

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5 hours ago, kutta said:

How can anywhere be an upgrade? He’s been the top FF WR for a while now. Upgrading from that is nearly impossible.

yea I would bet strongly against an improvement.  Ben is a really good qb and they have years and years of chemistry working on their side.  

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I haven’t read this whole thread regarding a trade but my understanding is no way he’s commanding a high pick due to the contract the new team inherits. I heard Pitt may deal him for as low as a 6th. Admittedly that was radio chatter but still the understanding is his contract is onerous unless he reworks it?

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1 hour ago, Kwai Chang Caine said:

due to the contract the new team inherits.

The contract for the new team would be extremely friendly.  The Steelers would have to eat a bunch of dead money on their cap, but the new team gets AB for ~12M per year IIRC with no guaranteed money.  The 12M salary range for AB is a bargain and the no guaranteed money means he could be cut by the new team with no cap hit (if AB continues being a diva).

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29 minutes ago, Steeler said:

The contract for the new team would be extremely friendly.  The Steelers would have to eat a bunch of dead money on their cap, but the new team gets AB for ~12M per year IIRC with no guaranteed money.  The 12M salary range for AB is a bargain and the no guaranteed money means he could be cut by the new team with no cap hit (if AB continues being a diva).

Cool. That clarifies a lot. Thanks!

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15 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

I would say it's so the team can actually meet your trade demand.  You usually can't have it both ways - it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Do you want what's good for you, or what's bad for the team? 

Would Pittsburgh trade AB for a 1st and eat the dead cap?  Probably. 

Will they trade him for a 4th and eat the dead cap?  Probably not. 

They are either eating his dead cap or eating his salary for a clubhouse cancer.  Trading him has next to no impact on their end cap result aside from having to pay a new WR.  Their far bigger decision is if they are willing to lose the production on the field.

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11 hours ago, Faust said:

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Steelers aren't willing to trade Antonio Brown to the Patriots 

At least there is that.

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3 hours ago, Steeler said:

The contract for the new team would be extremely friendly.  The Steelers would have to eat a bunch of dead money on their cap, but the new team gets AB for ~12M per year IIRC with no guaranteed money.  The 12M salary range for AB is a bargain and the no guaranteed money means he could be cut by the new team with no cap hit (if AB continues being a diva).

Yep. There is value there too. And the cap hit to the Steelers is the same whether they trade him or deactivate him all year. So they should hold out for a first this year or a second this year and a first next year imo. 

Edited by Leeroy Jenkins
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2 minutes ago, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Yep. There is value there too. And the cap hit to the steeers is the same whether they trade him or deactivate him all year. So they should hold out for a first this year or a second this year and a first next year imo. 

The bolded is a great point!

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Why would the Steelers trade him? Unless somebody seriously overpays - mid/high 1st rounder, or star defensive player... otherwise why would they move him?

Brown tweets a farewell like it's a done deal just because he requested it, but doesn't this decision sit entirely with Steelers org?

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12 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Why would the Steelers trade him? Unless somebody seriously overpays - mid/high 1st rounder, or star defensive player... otherwise why would they move him?

Brown tweets a farewell like it's a done deal just because he requested it, but doesn't this decision sit entirely with Steelers org?

Yes it's entirely Steelers decision. That's what this brain dead idiot Brown doesn't seem to understand. He really might be the dumbest individual in the league.

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1 hour ago, Dizzy said:

Why would the Steelers trade him? Unless somebody seriously overpays - mid/high 1st rounder, or star defensive player... otherwise why would they move him?

Brown tweets a farewell like it's a done deal just because he requested it, but doesn't this decision sit entirely with Steelers org?

Of course it's the Steeler's decision but players #####ing and moaning their way out of town is a not novel concept. Does not always work, but it will this time because the Steeler's are tired of the drama and distractions they've endured last few years.

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

They are either eating his dead cap or eating his salary for a clubhouse cancer.  Trading him has next to no impact on their end cap result aside from having to pay a new WR.  Their far bigger decision is if they are willing to lose the production on the field.

Right, so it's not going to be worth losing the on field production of they don't get a pretty good return.

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2 hours ago, irish eyes said:

Yes it's entirely Steelers decision. That's what this brain dead idiot Brown doesn't seem to understand. He really might be the dumbest individual in the league.

You have a habit of throwing personal insults at football players I am assuming you don't know personally.

Why?

Also, I believe you just contradicted yourself.  If I recall correctly, you claimed Bell was the dumbest brain dead idiot in the league. :coffee:

Edited by matuski

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28 minutes ago, matuski said:

You have a habit of throwing personal insults at football players I am assuming you don't know personally.

Why?

Also, I believe you just contradicted yourself.  If I recall correctly, you claimed Bell was the dumbest brain dead idiot in the league. :coffee:

Sorry,  I didnt realize you were friends with them. Anyway it's a close race between 1 & 2, but I think Brown surpassed bell as the biggest idiot. Cant wait to see what awful qb/team he gets to be with. Then you'll really see him pout.

 

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2 minutes ago, irish eyes said:

Sorry,  I didnt realize you were friends with them. Anyway it's a close race between 1 & 2, but I think Brown surpassed bell as the biggest idiot. Cant wait to see what awful qb/team he gets to be with. Then you'll really see him pout.

 

Can you be an idiot if your brain is dead though?

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