Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Casting Couch

Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

Recommended Posts

It sounds like AB has decided to move on, but who knows. Money can make people do strange things. Short of reconciliation the Steelers appear to be backed in a corner. There is a bonus due to AB very soon. The locker room chemistry has to figure into the equation as well.

I would be shocked if anyone is even considering giving the Steelers a a top 15 pick for AB. I think the Raiders giving a late first would be a good move. This team has no playmakers and AB bumps the ticket sales and excitement level up that makes owners swoon.

As someone with shares in AB I still have my 🤞that he signs with Colts or Packers. I would settle for the Panthers or 9ers. But more important than landing place is to just get stinking thing resolved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

It sounds like AB has decided to move on, but who knows. Money can make people do strange things. Short of reconciliation the Steelers appear to be backed in a corner. There is a bonus due to AB very soon. The locker room chemistry has to figure into the equation as well.

I would be shocked if anyone is even considering giving the Steelers a a top 15 pick for AB. I think the Raiders giving a late first would be a good move. This team has no playmakers and AB bumps the ticket sales and excitement level up that makes owners swoon.

As someone with shares in AB I still have my 🤞that he signs with Colts or Packers. I would settle for the Panthers or 9ers. But more important than landing place is to just get stinking thing resolved. 

 The team trading for AB has to bake in they will have to give AB a new contract so his approval of the location is important.  Can't see anyone rebuilding or not in what they believe is a two-year window to a championship wanting Brown.  Pretty sure I don't want Brown unless he wants to be in my city and on my franchise otherwise you risk getting the unhappy version of Brown. I would make it plain to Colbert that Brown would need to approve of my city, team, and QB. I would also know that I have to pay Brown and be willing to accept that so what makes that acceptable? A Super Bowl. Plus I don't see the Steelers trading Brown without a first rounder involved at the minimum. The trading team needs a GM with big stones too.

I'm not a fan of trading to any AFC teams if I'm the Steelers.  I like the Seattle Seahawks, Green Bay Packers, San Franciso Forty Niners and one team from the AFC. The Colts.

Seattle intrigues me because I think John Schneider though normally a builder through the draft he has the stones to make a move like this. They have decent cap space. They have a later first round pick (21) though no second rounder this year hurts a bit I think that would not stop them from getting a player like Brown. Wilson can handle the presence of Brown. Baldwin can slide right in as a number two. Lockett can go to the slot and AB can work slot or the outside.

Green Bay has two first rounders one (12) and (30) via Saints. Decent Cap Space and a different front office then years past. No doubt Rodgers can deal with Brown. The Packers have a legit shot in the Brown sweepstakes. That offense would be unfair with Adams, Brown, and Rodgers. Pretty good running game too.

San Francisco has the cap space and good front(Kyle) office for some reason I see this as less likely but surely much better chance than any AFC team has. Lynch is a non-factor Kyle calls the shots and would love to get a weapon like Brown but I think they are not ready just yet to contend though possible they are young and need to build through the draft the (2) is off the table not going to happen that leaves the (36) on the table which is still pretty good but would need to package more to compete.

The Colts have the most cap space lots of draft ammo thanks to the Jets deal from last season. I think Ballard is a genius who if any AFC team has a chance for Brown it's the Colts they own the (26), (34) (59). Andrew Luck also as the credibility to handle Brown. Ty Hilton can be an outstanding number two WR. Ebron at TE throw in an improving running game and fantastic head coach in Frank Reich this is enough. I bet Josh Mcdaniels would have nightmares if this trade went down. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody’s giving up a first + mammoth contract for a headcase 10th year player at a position that relatively speaking, doesn’t matter. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

 The team trading for AB has to bake in they will have to give AB a new contract so his approval of the location is important.  Can't see anyone rebuilding or not in what they believe is a two-year window to a championship wanting Brown.  Pretty sure I don't want Brown unless he wants to be in my city and on my franchise otherwise you risk getting the unhappy version of Brown. I would make it plain to Colbert that Brown would need to approve of my city, team, and QB. I would also know that I have to pay Brown and be willing to accept that so what makes that acceptable? A Super Bowl. Plus I don't see the Steelers trading Brown without a first rounder involved at the minimum. The trading team needs a GM with big stones too.

I'm not a fan of trading to any AFC teams if I'm the Steelers.  I like the Seattle Seahawks, Green Bay Packers, San Franciso Forty Niners and one team from the AFC. The Colts.

Seattle intrigues me because I think John Schneider though normally a builder through the draft he has the stones to make a move like this. They have decent cap space. They have a later first round pick (21) though no second rounder this year hurts a bit I think that would not stop them from getting a player like Brown. Wilson can handle the presence of Brown. Baldwin can slide right in as a number two. Lockett can go to the slot and AB can work slot or the outside.

Green Bay has two first rounders one (12) and (30) via Saints. Decent Cap Space and a different front office then years past. No doubt Rodgers can deal with Brown. The Packers have a legit shot in the Brown sweepstakes. That offense would be unfair with Adams, Brown, and Rodgers. Pretty good running game too.

San Francisco has the cap space and good front(Kyle) office for some reason I see this as less likely but surely much better chance than any AFC team has. Lynch is a non-factor Kyle calls the shots and would love to get a weapon like Brown but I think they are not ready just yet to contend though possible they are young and need to build through the draft the (2) is off the table not going to happen that leaves the (36) on the table which is still pretty good but would need to package more to compete.

The Colts have the most cap space lots of draft ammo thanks to the Jets deal from last season. I think Ballard is a genius who if any AFC team has a chance for Brown it's the Colts they own the (26), (34) (59). Andrew Luck also as the credibility to handle Brown. Ty Hilton can be an outstanding number two WR. Ebron at TE throw in an improving running game and fantastic head coach in Frank Reich this is enough. I bet Josh Mcdaniels would have nightmares if this trade went down. 

 

There are a lot of good points in here.  I still think the Steelers would be foolish to arbitrarily limit their possible trade partners b/c they don’t want to make a team they perceive as a rival better, or because they want to “punish” AB by sending him to a bad team.  Losing two All- Pro players changes their team.  They are no longer one of the top teams in the AFC, and they need to accept that.  If they can improve their team, they can make the playoffs/a run at the title, but they need to get better to do that.  Limiting who they’ll trade with makes getting better harder.

Withregsrds to the bolder comment above, why are you sure there is “no doubt Rodgers can deal with Brown?” Rodgers threw his coaches under the bus with his comments last year, Rodgers is clearly the guy in GB, and Rodgers loves Adams.  Browns issues seem to have grown out of Ben getting special treatment, calling others out, and seeing JuJu getting so much attention, team MVP, etc.  I’m far less confident than you that GB would be a good situation.  

I’m also not sure how/why Luck is any more credible than Ben with regards to handling AB.  I don’t see that situation as bad, I just don’t get where that thought comes from.

Edited by Bayhawks
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

 The team trading for AB has to bake in they will have to give AB a new contract so his approval of the location is important.  Can't see anyone rebuilding or not in what they believe is a two-year window to a championship wanting Brown.  Pretty sure I don't want Brown unless he wants to be in my city and on my franchise otherwise you risk getting the unhappy version of Brown. I would make it plain to Colbert that Brown would need to approve of my city, team, and QB. I would also know that I have to pay Brown and be willing to accept that so what makes that acceptable? A Super Bowl. Plus I don't see the Steelers trading Brown without a first rounder involved at the minimum. The trading team needs a GM with big stones too.

I'm not a fan of trading to any AFC teams if I'm the Steelers.  I like the Seattle Seahawks, Green Bay Packers, San Franciso Forty Niners and one team from the AFC. The Colts.

Seattle intrigues me because I think John Schneider though normally a builder through the draft he has the stones to make a move like this. They have decent cap space. They have a later first round pick (21) though no second rounder this year hurts a bit I think that would not stop them from getting a player like Brown. Wilson can handle the presence of Brown. Baldwin can slide right in as a number two. Lockett can go to the slot and AB can work slot or the outside.

Green Bay has two first rounders one (12) and (30) via Saints. Decent Cap Space and a different front office then years past. No doubt Rodgers can deal with Brown. The Packers have a legit shot in the Brown sweepstakes. That offense would be unfair with Adams, Brown, and Rodgers. Pretty good running game too.

San Francisco has the cap space and good front(Kyle) office for some reason I see this as less likely but surely much better chance than any AFC team has. Lynch is a non-factor Kyle calls the shots and would love to get a weapon like Brown but I think they are not ready just yet to contend though possible they are young and need to build through the draft the (2) is off the table not going to happen that leaves the (36) on the table which is still pretty good but would need to package more to compete.

The Colts have the most cap space lots of draft ammo thanks to the Jets deal from last season. I think Ballard is a genius who if any AFC team has a chance for Brown it's the Colts they own the (26), (34) (59). Andrew Luck also as the credibility to handle Brown. Ty Hilton can be an outstanding number two WR. Ebron at TE throw in an improving running game and fantastic head coach in Frank Reich this is enough. I bet Josh Mcdaniels would have nightmares if this trade went down. 

 

brown wont go for a 1st. I'd honestly be surprised if they got a high 2nd. 

The team trading for brown holds all the negotiating power. Steelers can decline and what are they stuck with? a headcase who os owed a roster bonus soon and doesnt want to play there. 

A team trading for brown not only has to give up a draft pick but also has to pay him a big contract... likely bigger than or comparable to OBJ. That has negative impact to Browns trade value. 

I think chances are the Steelers either rid themselves of Brown on the cheap, or keep him. I would be surprised if they got a 1st, and if they do they will have made out like bandits

Edited by Dr. Dan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

brown wont go for a 1st. I'd honestly be surprised if they got a high 2nd. 

The team trading for brown holds all the negotiating power. Steelers can decline and what are they stuck with? a headcase who os owed a roster bonus soon and doesnt want to play there. 

A team trading for brown not only has to give up a draft pick but also has to pay him a big contract... likely bigger than or comparable to OBJ. That has negative impact to Browns trade value. 

I think chances are the Steelers either rid themselves of Brown on the cheap, or keep him. I would be surprised if they got a 1st, and if they do they will have made out like bandits

The Steelers would be in a tough spot except Brown is a great player. There's likely to be many suitors, so a team would have to outbid all the others. Consider what the Raiders got for Mack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, cloppbeast said:

The Steelers would be in a tough spot except Brown is a great player. There's likely to be many suitors, so a team would have to outbid all the others. Consider what the Raiders got for Mack.

Brown is 2 years older than Mack, which isnt a big deal on the surface but when you're talking about a long term deal it is. I also think WR is one of the most interchangeable positions in the NFL. 

Everyone talks about GB... okay let's talk about GB...

Greg Jennings, pro bowler. One of the top 10 WRs in GB history. left GB. Bum

James Jones, impact player. left GB. Bum. Came back. and was super successful again. holds at least 1 receiving record in GBs history

Jordy Nelson. Pro bowl player, top 10 WR in GBs history. Cut. turned in a bum season

Why would GB trade a 1st for a WR when they have taken 2md and 3rd round (7th in Drivers case) and turned them into pro bowlers? why would any team trade a 1st for a soon to be 31 year old wr who will break your cap, and throw a fit presumably at the first sign of being "disrespected."

Hard pass. 

 

Comparing what Mack got to what AB could cost is like comparing apples to elephants. not even in the same category. A top notch defensive player in his prime is worth way more than a top WR on a sunset tour of his career. 

Edited by Dr. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Comparing what Mack got to what AB could cost is like comparing apples to elephants. not even in the same category. A top notch defensive player in his prime is worth way more than a top WR on a sunset tour of his career. 

Yeah, so Mack is more valuable. Ok. Brown won't go for 2 first round picks. 

Edited by cloppbeast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

There are a lot of good points in here.  I still think the Steelers would be foolish to arbitrarily limit their possible trade partners b/c they don’t want to make a team they perceive as a rival better, or because they want to “punish” AB by sending him to a bad team.  Losing two All- Pro players changes their team.  They are no longer one of the top teams in the AFC, and they need to accept that.  If they can improve their team, they can make the playoffs/a run at the title, but they need to get better to do that.  Limiting who they’ll trade with makes getting better harder.

Withregsrds to the bolder comment above, why are you sure there is “no doubt Rodgers can deal with Brown?” Rodgers threw his coaches under the bus with his comments last year, Rodgers is clearly the guy in GB, and Rodgers loves Adams.  Browns issues seem to have grown out of Ben getting special treatment, calling others out, and seeing JuJu getting so much attention, team MVP, etc.  I’m far less confident than you that GB would be a good situation.  

I’m also not sure how/why Luck is any more credible than Ben with regards to handling AB.  I don’t see that situation as bad, I just don’t get where that thought comes from.

Luck won't have an issue with Brown. And if he did Luck has no worries at all. The Colts would back Luck before Brown. Just saying Luck won't feel a need to coddle Brown and should be able to handle any Brown issues based on being established. Rodgers pretty much the same thing really any established QB. Brown would be happy for a year or two anyway so really this is moot. Think about the Jets though. Not sure I want Brown around a very young QB there could be an issue there where Brown feels being a veteran he can control Darnold and or criticize the QB publicly if things went south.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Luck won't have an issue with Brown. And if he did Luck has no worries at all. The Colts would back Luck before Brown. Just saying Luck won't feel a need to coddle Brown and should be able to handle any Brown issues based on being established. Rodgers pretty much the same thing really any established QB. Brown would be happy for a year or two anyway so really this is moot. Think about the Jets though. Not sure I want Brown around a very young QB there could be an issue there where Brown feels being a veteran he can control Darnold and or criticize the QB publicly if things went south.  

I get your point about Brown and a young QB, but Ben had won 2 super bowls before AB even got to the Steelers, id say that is pretty established for a QB.

AB wants his numbers (not wins or super bowls) and it sure looks like he didn't like having a 1B type of WR in JuJu last year... he wants to be the alpha WR.  The more I think about it the more I like him going to OAK for one of their first round picks... he can get his 160 targets and be happy whether they are winning games or not.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Luck won't have an issue with Brown. And if he did Luck has no worries at all. The Colts would back Luck before Brown. Just saying Luck won't feel a need to coddle Brown and should be able to handle any Brown issues based on being established. 

What in Lucks history makes this such a factual statement? 

He hasnt dealt with anyone at the primadonna level of AB. 

I'm not a huge Colta fan, but Luck doesnt seem like a hard asses no nonsense QB where "the buck stops with me." IMO he seems like a guy who leads by example more than confronting problems. But maybe I'm wrong about him. 

 

Brown would be a terrible locker room fit in GB, but he would make that offense explosive. If AB cant deal with JuJu getting 8 targets when he himself gets 12, there is no way he will be happy with the way GB likes to spread the ball. 

Winning cures all, sure, but GB is more than a WR away from superbowl contender, especially in the NFC where the Rams look like the team to beat for the next half decade

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

brown wont go for a 1st. I'd honestly be surprised if they got a high 2nd. 

The team trading for brown holds all the negotiating power. Steelers can decline and what are they stuck with? a headcase who os owed a roster bonus soon and doesnt want to play there. 

A team trading for brown not only has to give up a draft pick but also has to pay him a big contract... likely bigger than or comparable to OBJ. That has negative impact to Browns trade value. 

I think chances are the Steelers either rid themselves of Brown on the cheap, or keep him. I would be surprised if they got a 1st, and if they do they will have made out like bandits

And this could be the reason why it won't get done. It's not what other teams think he is worth. It's what the Steelers think he is worth. I absolutely think he is more than worth a first and more. No one in this draft has the production and ability of a Brown and for the next couple years that should remain the same. The Steelers would be complete idiots to trade for less. If Brown has to sit then so be it or even if he agrees to play and acts like an idiot you have the option to suspend for conduct detrimental to the team or he holds out. The Steelers lose nothing in these situations. We are talking about grown men here. Dealing with the fans and media really should not be an issue. The Steelers are in more control of this thing than what the media is portraying at the moment. Brown is under contract and age 30. He sees no other means to a payday then doing what he is doing now. I would be okay with that if I'm the Steelers if the compensation is significantly over market value if not then no way should the Steelers do any deal just to rid themselves of a malcontent.  You set yourselves up for future issues later with other players that find them in the same situation and you hold all the leverage in the situation. It's simple to me. Brown either plays for the Steelers. He is traded for over market value. He sits and holds out getting fined as much as possible or he retires. The cap hit the Steelers is just piling on at this point.  I for the world can not see how the Steelers could settle for less.  This is and should get much uglier before it gets settled. I would be worried if it lingers if I had Brown in Dynasty just to throw a fantasy spin on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

What in Lucks history makes this such a factual statement? 

He hasnt dealt with anyone at the primadonna level of AB. 

I'm not a huge Colta fan, but Luck doesnt seem like a hard asses no nonsense QB where "the buck stops with me." IMO he seems like a guy who leads by example more than confronting problems. But maybe I'm wrong about him. 

 

Brown would be a terrible locker room fit in GB, but he would make that offense explosive. If AB cant deal with JuJu getting 8 targets when he himself gets 12, there is no way he will be happy with the way GB likes to spread the ball. 

Winning cures all, sure, but GB is more than a WR away from superbowl contender, especially in the NFC where the Rams look like the team to beat for the next half decade

The difference is money. Brown will be happy because he has a new contract regardless but the Colts are backing Luck before Brown. Just the way it is and will be with any franchise.  I guess my point would be that pretty much Brown has to accept though a great player he is not as important as a franchise QB and that's with any team. The younger QBs might have issues dealing with Brown but that's because they are young not because of the franchise seeing Brown as more valuable. Brown just is not as important as a franchise QB. Kind of like what is being shown to him in Pittsburgh. Colbert made that point quite clear. Ben has won a Super Bowl and Brown has not. That spoke volumes to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

What in Lucks history makes this such a factual statement? 

He hasnt dealt with anyone at the primadonna level of AB. 

I'm not a huge Colta fan, but Luck doesnt seem like a hard asses no nonsense QB where "the buck stops with me." IMO he seems like a guy who leads by example more than confronting problems. But maybe I'm wrong about him. 

 

Brown would be a terrible locker room fit in GB, but he would make that offense explosive. If AB cant deal with JuJu getting 8 targets when he himself gets 12, there is no way he will be happy with the way GB likes to spread the ball. 

Winning cures all, sure, but GB is more than a WR away from superbowl contender, especially in the NFC where the Rams look like the team to beat for the next half decade

Rams could play a role but they would have some work to do. Snead is clever though. Can't rule them out.  Howie is super smart to in Philly but they are really up against the cap and not sure they have the assets to move around to make it happen without really hurting themselves. Trading Foles could acquire some more ammo. We are all speculating here as to landing spots. I see Brown actually being pretty happy anywhere he goes for at least a season maybe two and then what he is 32?

Edited by osubuckeyeman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

.We are talking about grown men here. 

Chronologically speaking, yes. That's about it. 

 

I agree, I think he is worth a 1st but I would be pretty disappointed if my team gave that up for him. 

 

He may out produce a 1st round rookie WR in 2019 and probably 2020 but after that I'm not so sure. So teams have to ask if 2 or 3 years of Brown ja greater than the potential of a guy like DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Harmon, Butler who may produce more than that over the next 10 years. Not saying they will be better than AB, but if AJ Brown can produce 3 years of 100/1200/8 is it worth a 1st and probably a good 60 to 80 million for the extra 30/300/4? I dont think so, but I am not an NFL executive 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I guess my point would be that pretty much Brown has to accept though a great player he is not as important as a franchise QB and that's with any team.

 

The younger QBs might have issues dealing with Brown but that's because they are young not because of the franchise seeing Brown as more valuable. Brown just is not as important as a franchise QB. 

Oh I agree 100%. I dont think AB will ever get the first point. and that's why I think he is destined to end up with a bad divorce with whatever team he ends up with.

With your second point, I understand what you are saying now about Luck and Rodgers and I agree. a veteran QB will put AB in his place due to the franchise backing him and his experience being "the guy."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Rams could play a role but they would have some work to do. Snead is clever though. Can't rule them out.  Howie is super smart to in Philly but they are really up against the cap and not sure they have the assets to move around to make it happen without really hurting themselves. Trading Foles could acquire some more ammo. We are all speculating here as to landing spots. I see Brown actually being pretty happy anywhere he goes for at least a season maybe two and then what he is 32?

I forgot about Philly. Yeah they are on the upswing too. 

The Bears look solid as well. GB needs serious defensive help, which is why I think they stand pat. Maybe a TE round 1 but I expect LB, OL, DL in no order

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problems off the top of my head:

-AB quit on his team over a Team MVP,  

-attends practices/meetings if he’s in the mood                                                 

-trading team must give up pick + pay him          

 -10th year at a position that doesn’t matter  

-Legal issues from domestic violence to throwing furniture off a balcony. Add the driving 100+ mph, threatening to break reporter’s jaw, etc.                                

-Seems mentally unwell (see above, his Twitter, Mr Big Chest, mentored by TO/Ocho

 -Throws tantrums when seeing less than 15 targets/game

  -would rather lose and put up 10-150-1 than win and put up 5-50-0.                  

-replicating his stats is highly unlikely away from his youth, his first ballot HOF QB and always loaded offense (how would he do in JAX?) 

-because replicating his stats is highly unlikely, he could go insane immediately

Pros:

-Has been excellent on the field.          

 -Could have 3-4 prime years left.                       

-Would put butts in seats.                    

 -Could buy time for a GM on his last chance (Mike MacCagnan?)                     

Edited by Edgar
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

Chronologically speaking, yes. That's about it. 

 

I agree, I think he is worth a 1st but I would be pretty disappointed if my team gave that up for him. 

 

He may out produce a 1st round rookie WR in 2019 and probably 2020 but after that I'm not so sure. So teams have to ask if 2 or 3 years of Brown ja greater than the potential of a guy like DK Metcalf, AJ Brown, Harmon, Butler who may produce more than that over the next 10 years. Not saying they will be better than AB, but if AJ Brown can produce 3 years of 100/1200/8 is it worth a 1st and probably a good 60 to 80 million for the extra 30/300/4? I dont think so, but I am not an NFL executive 

For a team that thinks they are one player away from a Super Bowl in a 2-year window? Would be awful tempting especially if you have a later pick in the first. Your opinions and insight might be totally correct and I think more people would agree with your views and points than mine. Just seems extremely weak and dangerous for the Steelers to deal for anything less than more than market value. I would hate to be in Colbert's shoes but unless Rooney demanded the trade for less. I would hold firm.  Dallas paid a first for Cooper and people laughed at them. Cooper changed their season significantly. Yes, Cooper is younger but I think he is like 26 and that makes a difference but does anyone right now think Cooper is better than Brown next season especially if he goes to a team with a QB that can take advantage of Brown's talents. Unlike the media I would be super surprised if the Steelers settle for less and shame on them if they do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if I were the Steelers I would stand pat too. Kind of odd when they stand firm on Bell but seem to be giving into AB. Unless it's an age thing and they knew they would get a high comp pick for Bell, but with AB they are kind of stuck unless they do trade him. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Problems off the top of my head:

-AB quit on his team over a Team MVP,         -attends practices/meetings if he’s in the mood                                                                 -trading team must give up pick + pay him            -10th year at a position that doesn’t matter   -Legal issues from domestic violence to throwing furniture off a balcony. Add the driving 100+ mph, threatening to break reporter’s jaw, etc.                                -Seems mentally unwell (see above, his Twitter, Mr Big Chest, mentored by TO/Ocho).                                                         -Throws tantrums when seeing less than 15 targets/game                                              -would rather lose and put up 10-150-1 than win and put up 5-50-0.                            -replicating his stats is highly unlikely away from his youth, his first ballot HOF QB and always loaded offense (how would he do in JAX?)                                                    -because replicating his stats is highly unlikely, he could go insane immediately

Pros:

-Has been excellent on the field.                       -Could have 3-4 prime years left.                       -Would put butts in seats.                                    -Could buy time for a GM on his last chance (Mike MacCagnan?)                     

2

And though a bit difficult to read there are tremendous points here.  The legal issues ARE a huge issue. I'm really only concerned with the domestic issues here. The big checks comments or big chest the social media antics I can live with. Threatening reporters though not ideal is not anything to me accept potential signs of mental issues. I think he is really acting out because he wants a new payday. I think this reeks of Drew Rosenhaus and Brown orchestrating a lot of this but you are correct his legal issues is a concern. Jacksonville is in Cap "Heck" the worst in the NFL. Have a hard time seeing them having room or making room with the new rookie crop coming and finding money for them and Brown it's pretty bad there. Who is the QB in Jacksonville?? They are going to have a hard enough time getting Foles and QB should be their number one concern. I'm not the best Cap guy out there so sure there is a way but has to be pretty difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steeler said:

I get your point about Brown and a young QB, but Ben had won 2 super bowls before AB even got to the Steelers, id say that is pretty established for a QB.

AB wants his numbers (not wins or super bowls) and it sure looks like he didn't like having a 1B type of WR in JuJu last year... he wants to be the alpha WR.  The more I think about it the more I like him going to OAK for one of their first round picks... he can get his 160 targets and be happy whether they are winning games or not.

I get this view. I don't think Gruden cares what anyone thinks but they are in a complete rebuild and they just traded Cooper for a first to spend a first for another WR seems to fly in a different direction especially the excuse to get rid of Cooper was not wanting to spend money or free money for the rebuild and acquire draft capital . Could happen but I think there are better directions for them to go however Gruden is crazy and you never know. I mean crazy in a good way. I think Mayock was brought in to help settle the crazy side of Gruden.  LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Problems off the top of my head:

-AB quit on his team over a Team MVP,  

-attends practices/meetings if he’s in the mood                                                 

-trading team must give up pick + pay him          

 -10th year at a position that doesn’t matter  

-Legal issues from domestic violence to throwing furniture off a balcony. Add the driving 100+ mph, threatening to break reporter’s jaw, etc.                                

-Seems mentally unwell (see above, his Twitter, Mr Big Chest, mentored by TO/Ocho

 -Throws tantrums when seeing less than 15 targets/game

  -would rather lose and put up 10-150-1 than win and put up 5-50-0.                  

-replicating his stats is highly unlikely away from his youth, his first ballot HOF QB and always loaded offense (how would he do in JAX?) 

-because replicating his stats is highly unlikely, he could go insane immediately

Pros:

-Has been excellent on the field.          

 -Could have 3-4 prime years left.                       

-Would put butts in seats.                    

 -Could buy time for a GM on his last chance (Mike MacCagnan?)                     

You seem pretty unbiased here.  Not an ounce of feelings interjected in this list. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Edgar said:

Nobody’s giving up a first + mammoth contract for a headcase 10th year player at a position that relatively speaking, doesn’t matter. 

I recall people saying similar things about TO and Moss at the same periods in their respective careers. AB is one of the all time greats at the position. His presence on the field has an impact on how the opponent defends the field. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I get this view. I don't think Gruden cares what anyone thinks but they are in a complete rebuild and they just traded Cooper for a first to spend a first for another WR seems to fly in a different direction especially the excuse to get rid of Cooper was not wanting to spend money or free money for the rebuild and acquire draft capital . Could happen but I think there are better directions for them to go however Gruden is crazy and you never know. I mean crazy in a good way. I think Mayock was brought in to help settle the crazy side of Gruden.  LOL.

I don't think it's a good idea for OAK either, but I don't care about them :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, matuski said:

You seem pretty unbiased here.  Not an ounce of feelings interjected in this list. 

 

Alright I’ll change some wording on the bolded, but the point remains. 

1. He went into hiding in what was in essence, a playoff game. 

2. The bottom two-thirds of the roster would be off the team with his attendance record. 

3. His social media presence is bad for business. 

4. He pouts when Juju has success. 

5. Is stat obsessed. On a new team, with likely a lesser QB, oldest he’s ever been, etc, means 90% chance his numbers decrease in 2019. This will not bode well for his moody, stat-needy personality. 

But by all means throw money at the problem!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

if I were the Steelers I would stand pat too. Kind of odd when they stand firm on Bell but seem to be giving into AB.

 

Presenting Exhibit 1A why they don't want to stand pat with AB.  The Steelers are not going to run this back next year with another massive distraction like this hanging over their heads. The organization does not want it, the players in the locker room don't want it. As a fan I want it if the compensation is not good, but it's not going to happen.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say there is a stink going on in Pittsburgh and it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what it is. It could be the coach, the culture, the QB, the AB/Bell situations, ownership perhaps. However, this AB drama has made me come around on Le’Veon a little bit. Le’Veon has his own scenario going on, but perhaps it’s time to cut him some slack with Pittsburgh in turmoil 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I will say there is a stink going on in Pittsburgh and it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what it is. It could be the coach, the culture, the QB, the AB/Bell situations, ownership perhaps. However, this AB drama has made me come around on Le’Veon a little bit. Le’Veon has his own scenario going on, but perhaps it’s time to cut him some slack with Pittsburgh in turmoil 

Since Colbert gave that ill fated Big Ben spiel in his press conference I've noticed a few people in the national media say the same thing about AB, that they can kind of understand now why he is frustrated. I don't think Colbert is that Machiavellian, but a small chance  he might have unintentionally rationalized some of AB's disenchantment and behavior and helped up his stock.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Colbert says only 3 teams reached out for a price check... Since that is coming from the Steelers camp I would guess it's actually less than 3, teams are always trying to manufacture more interest than there is in these situations... 

I have him on the block in Dynasty.  Number of teams who have asked about him or made an offer.... Zero. 

Edited by kittenmittens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Edgar said:

Alright I’ll change some wording on the bolded, but the point remains. 

1. He went into hiding in what was in essence, a playoff game. 

2. The bottom two-thirds of the roster would be off the team with his attendance record. 

3. His social media presence is bad for business. 

4. He pouts when Juju has success. 

5. Is stat obsessed. On a new team, with likely a lesser QB, oldest he’s ever been, etc, means 90% chance his numbers decrease in 2019. This will not bode well for his moody, stat-needy personality. 

But by all means throw money at the problem!

You again seem very sincere in your efforts to present both sides of the story.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

Colbert says only 3 teams reached out for a price check... Since that is coming from the Steelers camp I would guess it's actually less than 3, teams are always trying to manufacture more interest than there is in these situations... 

I have him on the block in Dynasty.  Number of teams who have asked about him or made an offer.... Zero. 

The best thing that could happen for your fantasy team would be for him to not get traded, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, matuski said:

The best thing that could happen for your fantasy team would be for him to not get traded, right?

The best thing would be for Ben and AB to make up if not that then yes traded would be the best option. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like the Green Bay call.

rogers window is closing and so is ab's, 3-4 years.

they are in win now mode and 2 #1wrs would make them invincible.

just because they have a history of building from the draft doesnt make them have to stay that way.

new england drafted an rb in the first and look where that got them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

The best thing would be for Ben and AB to make up if not that then yes traded would be the best option. 

They have apparently not liked each other for years.

Too many of you buy into this NFL reality show drama.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

If the Raiders, Jets, or Cardinals trade high future picks for AB it will be the dumbest move in those organizations' history.  I'm shocked people are even speculating that a rebuilding team is giving up their top 5 or 10 1st rounder to get AB.  

I don't see the Steelers trading him for any less than a 1st. Eating 20 million in dead cap at the end of their win now window isn't worth a 3rd rounder. 

Where are you getting that from?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Luck won't have an issue with Brown. And if he did Luck has no worries at all. The Colts would back Luck before Brown. Just saying Luck won't feel a need to coddle Brown and should be able to handle any Brown issues based on being established. Rodgers pretty much the same thing really any established QB. Brown would be happy for a year or two anyway so really this is moot. Think about the Jets though. Not sure I want Brown around a very young QB there could be an issue there where Brown feels being a veteran he can control Darnold and or criticize the QB publicly if things went south.  

This makes no sense. Roethlisberger is more established (at least equal to) than Rodgers & Luck. Pitt has his back vs AB’s, and it’s clear Ben didn’t coddle AB (which is part of the reason AB three a hissy fit).  Both teams also have established stud WRs, so AB would have to deal with sharing the spotlight, and that seemed to be part of this she with JuJu in Pitt.  All of the “logic” you’re using to apply to why Rodgers/Luck and GN/Ind would be good fits for AB could be used to explain why Pitt should have worked, but it didn’t.  Doesn’t make sense.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hankmoody said:

Where are you getting that from?

Articles like Faust just posted. Jets, Raiders, Cardinals, Redskins all speculated as landing spots.  None of those teams should be buying a 31 year old with a first rounder...  All of their first rounders are in the top 5 or 10 or will be next year. 

Edited by kittenmittens
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bayhawks said:

This makes no sense. Roethlisberger is more established (at least equal to) than Rodgers & Luck. Pitt has his back vs AB’s, and it’s clear Ben didn’t coddle AB (which is part of the reason AB three a hissy fit).  Both teams also have established stud WRs, so AB would have to deal with sharing the spotlight, and that seemed to be part of this she with JuJu in Pitt.  All of the “logic” you’re using to apply to why Rodgers/Luck and GN/Ind would be good fits for AB could be used to explain why Pitt should have worked, but it didn’t.  Doesn’t make sense.

Sure it does. He is under contract in Pittsburgh for the next 3 years. This is more about the money than it is about Ben and IT did work in Pittsburgh. Ben and AB might be the best QB to WR combo since Montana to Rice so yes it can work with Luck and Rodgers. I think the whole thing is somewhat orchestrated might not have been that way in the beginning but looks that way to me now. As far as dealing with another WR not sure what your point is here. Most teams have NFL receivers on their teams. I suppose Washington might be a good place a team with no QB and no WR support.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

Sure it does. He is under contract in Pittsburgh for the next 3 years. This is more about the money than it is about Ben and IT did work in Pittsburgh. Ben and AB might be the best QB to WR combo since Montana to Rice so yes it can work with Luck and Rodgers. I think the whole thing is somewhat orchestrated might not have been that way in the beginning but looks that way to me now. As far as dealing with another WR not sure what your point is here. Most teams have NFL receivers on their teams. I suppose Washington might be a good place a team with no QB and no WR support.  

It worked in Pitt b/c they let AB get away with this stuff.  When they stopped (which is what you are saying GB/Rodgers and Ind/Luck will do), it stopped working.

As far as the contract, he’d be under contract for 3 years in any other spot.  He’s not a FA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

It worked in Pitt b/c they let AB get away with this stuff.  When they stopped (which is what you are saying GB/Rodgers and Ind/Luck will do), it stopped working.

As far as the contract, he’d be under contract for 3 years in any other spot.  He’s not a FA.

He is almost point blank asking for his contract to be redone after the trade.  He wants guaranteed money. He knows he has to get traded to get this done which is why he wants to be traded he has to do that to get the new deal. He wants a new contract with his new team.  So yes we all know he is under contract and not a free agent. 

No, I'm not saying Luck and Rodgers can control another human being pretty sure no one can do that. I'm saying they are established enough to not be affected by Brown's antics though I strongly believe Brown will be fine for any new team willing to trade for him and pay him because in order to get paid he has to not be in Pittsburgh. 

Edited by osubuckeyeman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Articles like Faust just posted. Jets, Raiders, Cardinals, Redskins all speculated as landing spots.  None of those teams should be buying a 31 year old with a first rounder...  All of their first rounders are in the top 5 or 10 or will be next year. 

Could not agree more. I think teams with late first rounders would be interested though you bring up an interesting point.  First rounders in next years draft might be more attractive to the Steelers since there is no set draft order in 2020. As long as you don't trade with the Patriots. LOL... That would be the 31st or 32nd pick.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

He is almost point blank asking for his contract to be redone after the trade.  He wants guaranteed money. He knows he has to get traded to get this done which is why he wants to be traded he has to do that to get the new deal. He wants a new contract with his new team.  So yes we all know he is under contract and not a free agent. 

No, I'm not saying Luck and Rodgers can control another human being pretty sure no one can do that. I'm saying they are established enough to not be affected by Brown's antics though I strongly believe Brown will be fine for any new team willing to trade for him and pay him because in order to get paid he has to not be in Pittsburgh. 

So, what you’re saying has nothing to do with Luck or Rodgers.  You’re saying if a new team gives him more money, he’ll be “good” AB for a couple years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Bayhawks said:

So, what you’re saying has nothing to do with Luck or Rodgers.  You’re saying if a new team gives him more money, he’ll be “good” AB for a couple years.

 

I'm saying that I would much prefer an established QB than a younger QB say like Rosen or Darnold or even a Trubisky type so as a fit to where if Brown starts acting up in Social Media or criticizing it won't really be an issue the fit is better, in my opinion, I think a Luck or Rodgers would not become rattled by Brown should he go off the rails a bit.  I mean it's just an opinion.  You are correct though I think at least one season or two once Brown is paid that he will be happy and he should continue to succeed.  Happy wife happy life. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

Articles like Faust just posted. Jets, Raiders, Cardinals, Redskins all speculated as landing spots.  None of those teams should be buying a 31 year old with a first rounder...  All of their first rounders are in the top 5 or 10 or will be next year. 

Raiders also have picks 24 and 27 in the 1st round besides having pick 4. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, krsone21 said:

Raiders also have picks 24 and 27 in the 1st round besides having pick 4. 

But the raiders are awful and Gruden has plenty of job security. What the Steelers need is a trade partner that is one piece away, or a team with a desperate GM who’s on his last chance (like Jets MacCagnan)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, krsone21 said:

Raiders also have picks 24 and 27 in the 1st round besides having pick 4. 

Yes, but they are so far away from competing that it would be a waste of a pick.  Why trade young Amari Cooper for a late first and then use the pick to acquire old Antonio Brown.  That's going in the wrong direction, and would be an awful move.

Even if one of these rebuilding teams did acquire Brown and he plays extremely well, all that those few extra wins will do long term is hurt the draft position and possibly take them out of franchise QB territory. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So let me get this right.  A GM is supposed to deal away a 1st rounder AND make Brown happy by paying him huge amounts of guaranteed capital, and in exchange they’ll get a proven but wrong side of 30 WR1 whose eccentric behavior and self centeredness have increased significantly so much that he ran himself out of one of the most respected franchises in the league, with no idea if he’ll actually decide to reverse his current direction and act like a team player?

Some of you guys wouldn’t last very long as a GM in the NFL.

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.