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Antonio Brown - Out of his Head - Out of the League

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3 minutes ago, kittenmittens said:

I wouldn't laugh, but I think the above would be a long shot.  A lot would have to break right for the Giants to be in true contention even doing those things.  

They'd still be the 3rd best team in the East. 

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17 minutes ago, travdogg said:

They'd still be the 3rd best team in the East. 

That seems way too low. With Barkley, OBJ, Shepard, Engram, Harrison, Apple, Foles, and a revamped offensive line? 

I'm hard pressed to think of a team they wouldn't give fits. 

 

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46 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That seems way too low. With Barkley, OBJ, Shepard, Engram, Harrison, Apple, Foles, and a revamped offensive line? 

I'm hard pressed to think of a team they wouldn't give fits. 

 

Its way too low to say that a slight QB upgrade doesn't make them better than 2 of the NFC's final 4 teams last year?

Other than Foles, that is what they had the first 7 weeks or so of this season, and went 1-6. Foles isn't some massive upgrade from Eli. Its a D to a C roughly. Can't see that one thing making them better than Dallas or Philly. I think you are greatly overrating Apple, and probably Shepard as well. Those guys are replacement level guys. 

Giants o-line is still below average, LB's are awful, and DB's even with Apple are below average. Giants are maybe an 8-8 team with Foles, Harrison and Apple. 

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On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 6:57 PM, kittenmittens said:

I don't think it's wild speculation to suggest that the Raiders, Jets, or Cardinals will be drafting in the top 5 or 10 picks next year.

Well for one thing no one said that it would require a first round pick (especially a top 5 pick) and for another the Raiders own three first round picks and an early second this year so if they were to trade for him it would likely be for one of their later firsts (although I doubt anyone trades a first).

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9 hours ago, travdogg said:

Its way too low to say that a slight QB upgrade doesn't make them better than 2 of the NFC's final 4 teams last year?

Other than Foles, that is what they had the first 7 weeks or so of this season, and went 1-6. Foles isn't some massive upgrade from Eli. Its a D to a C roughly. Can't see that one thing making them better than Dallas or Philly. I think you are greatly overrating Apple, and probably Shepard as well. Those guys are replacement level guys. 

Giants o-line is still below average, LB's are awful, and DB's even with Apple are below average. Giants are maybe an 8-8 team with Foles, Harrison and Apple. 

The bolded is true, but I think Foles is a bigger upgrade than you think and I personally think they're better than 8-8 if they do the hypotheticals I proposed. 

But they're only hypotheticals, and some will never happen or, at the very least, are unlikely to happen, so the exercise is sort of moot and academic.  

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53 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Well for one thing no one said that it would require a first round pick (especially a top 5 pick) and for another the Raiders own three first round picks and an early second this year so if they were to trade for him it would likely be for one of their later firsts (although I doubt anyone trades a first).

Didn't the Steelers say it would take a 1st?  

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Didn't the Steelers say it would take a 1st?  

Not that I'm aware of.

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Can someone point me to the AB thread?  I apparently stumbled into the Foles or NYG thread?  😛 

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1 hour ago, kittenmittens said:

Didn't the Steelers say it would take a 1st?  

No.  They said they wouldn't give him away, but never said anything in public about the minimum they would accept in return for AB.

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5 hours ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not that I'm aware of.

 

5 hours ago, Steeler said:

No.  They said they wouldn't give him away, but never said anything in public about the minimum they would accept in return for AB.

I don't know how accurate this is, but it was reported by local media:

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019/01/14/steelers-want-1st-rd-pick-for-brown/amp/

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

 

I don't know how accurate this is, but it was reported by local media:

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2019/01/14/steelers-want-1st-rd-pick-for-brown/amp/

That’s great Pitt thinks that AB is worth a first. Let me see if I have this right... I think my house should be worth $2 million dollars. Now I just wait for the offers to come in right???

Edited by Gandalf

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What is his dynasty trade value right now? Anyone moved him? Seen him traded in your leagues?

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12 hours ago, Gandalf said:

That’s great Pitt thinks that AB is worth a first. Let me see if I have this right... I think my house should be worth $2 million dollars. Now I just wait for the offers to come in right???

It never hurts to ask

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What the hell is on ABs lip?

 

its a caterpillar, right? 

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18 minutes ago, Wrigley said:

What the hell is on ABs lip?

 

its a caterpillar, right? 

Big fan of the guy and all but his mustache, hair and that dumb fur coat he's been kicking all over the place is one of the dumbest looks I've seen anyone try and go with in quite some time.  Does not do a lot to tamp down talk he's lost his marbles.

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Quote

Mike Silver of NFL Network said to "keep an eye on" the Saints in trade talks for Antonio Brown.

Silver's colleague at NFL Network, Ian Rapoport, mentioned the Raiders as another possible fit for Brown. It's unclear if Silver is reporting this or merely speculating, though New Orleans would obviously be an ideal landing spot for the veteran wideout. Pairing Michael Thomas with a future Hall of Famer in AB would make the Saints' passing game nearly unstoppable. The problem, of course, is that Thomas is up for an extension and paying both him and Brown would be difficult to pull off. As it stands now, the Saints have just under $13 million in available cap space, fifth-fewest among the league's 32 teams. The Saints could certainly benefit from adding another top-level pass-catcher, though Brown landing in New Orleans is probably just a pipe dream.

RELATED: 

Oakland Raiders

, New Orleans Saints

SOURCE: Mike Silver on Twitter

Mar 1, 2019, 12:04 PM

 

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The Saints might be one of only a handful of teams who throw enough and have a good enough QB to keep AB happy. The thought of him going to the Saints has to scare the rest of the NFC teams.   

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Packers have the space and paired with Adams would make that offense lethal again.

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Updating an earlier report, Saints coach Sean Payton said the team hasn't reached out to the Steelers regarding Antonio Brown.

This comes on the heels of a report from NFL Network's Mike Silver, who said to "keep an eye" on New Orleans as a suitor for Brown. Steelers GM Kevin Colbert revealed last week that three teams had reached out in pursuit of Brown, but apparently the Saints weren't one of them. "Look, I’ve followed it a little bit like you guys have, and that’s really about it," said Payton while addressing reporters Friday at the Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. It's fun to envision Brown catching passes from Drew Brees inside the Superdome but before they entertain that possibility, the Saints will likely focus on re-signing Mark Ingram while locking Michael Thomas into a long-term contract.

RELATED: 

New Orleans Saints

SOURCE: New Orleans Times-Picayune

Mar 1, 2019, 2:53 PM

 

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1 minute ago, Faust said:

 

as a football fan it would be fun to watch this combo, but with MT there i just don't see this being a consideration for the saints. looking like brown's disgruntle-ness came in no small part because of juju's rise to fame, so no way he'd be happy playing opposite another great receiver like MT.

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1 hour ago, Andy Dufresne said:

Packers have the space and paired with Adams would make that offense lethal again.

They could cut Jimmy Graham and use that money... Trade the late 2019 1st from New Orleans... 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Gandalf said:

That’s great Pitt thinks that AB is worth a first. Let me see if I have this right... I think my house should be worth $2 million dollars. Now I just wait for the offers to come in right???

I don't disagree, just citing where I got the Pittsburgh said they want a 1st round pick from. 

I also think Pittsburgh does actually want that, since they have to take the cap hit even if they trade him.  It's not worth it unless they get a big return.

Edited by kittenmittens

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On 2/27/2019 at 5:03 PM, menobrown said:

My point is a 31 year old WR whose leverage is less every season, who is out of guarantees in his deal and his remaining years will pay him what I'd guess is an average of $5-7M per season less then the top paid WR each year will get wanting his contract redone with some guarantees added should not be viewed as some constant malcontent player always worried about his contract and considered prone to be difficult in the future.

He got his money UP FRONT.  It wasn't a mediocre contract.  His "guarantee" is, if he plays he gets paid.  How hard is that?  Now he wants to be paid more than #1 WR money even though he is still on his last monster contract.  Sounds like he's looking for a multi-year, guaranteed contract that will pay him more than anyone else every single year.

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2 minutes ago, daveR said:

He got his money UP FRONT.  It wasn't a mediocre contract.  His "guarantee" is, if he plays he gets paid.  How hard is that?  Now he wants to be paid more than #1 WR money even though he is still on his last monster contract.  Sounds like he's looking for a multi-year, guaranteed contract that will pay him more than anyone else every single year.

It's easy for you to say his guarantee is if he plays he gets paid but come on. He's out of guarantees and every year he gets older and loses less leverage and frankly if he was not asking for more money or gurantee's it would be a bad business decision. And I keep referencing Julio because he is a similar aged player who also got his money upfront but also has no inclination whatsoever to play next season on his current deal and  I don't see people dogging Julio. AB's gone about all of this the wrong way, of that there is zero doubt,  but I will not be critical of him for being a 31 year old WR out of guarantees making what will soon be 75% of top APY WR pay and actually having the gall to want his contract redone to guarantee him some money and possible pay him more.

Last year when Allen Robinson and Sammy Watkings got silly contracts I did not hear a peep from AB wanting more money. Not when Odell got extended either.  Jay Glazer wrote this yesterday:  "There are mixed signals being put out there that Antonio may want a new contract and others are telling me it’s not as much about the contract, he just wants some of his base salary moved up to guaranteed money. Whatever it is, it’s murky". Like Glazer said it's murky but we don't know if all AB wants is more money pushed into guarantees but everyone seems comfortable running wild with this notion he wants a ton of money and that's center of what this is all about.

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

It's easy for you to say his guarantee is if he plays he gets paid but come on. He's out of guarantees and every year he gets older and loses less leverage and frankly if he was not asking for more money or gurantee's it would be a bad business decision. And I keep referencing Julio because he is a similar aged player who also got his money upfront but also has no inclination whatsoever to play next season on his current deal and  I don't see people dogging Julio. AB's gone about all of this the wrong way, of that there is zero doubt,  but I will not be critical of him for being a 31 year old WR out of guarantees making what will soon be 75% of top APY WR pay and actually having the gall to want his contract redone to guarantee him some money and possible pay him more.

Last year when Allen Robinson and Sammy Watkings got silly contracts I did not hear a peep from AB wanting more money. Not when Odell got extended either.  Jay Glazer wrote this yesterday:  "There are mixed signals being put out there that Antonio may want a new contract and others are telling me it’s not as much about the contract, he just wants some of his base salary moved up to guaranteed money. Whatever it is, it’s murky". Like Glazer said it's murky but we don't know if all AB wants is more money pushed into guarantees but everyone seems comfortable running wild with this notion he wants a ton of money and that's center of what this is all about.

So, if the team says to him, "All right.  The last two years are guaranteed" he'd play out the contract?  That's borderline absurd.  Do you REALLY think that's what he wants?

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On 2/28/2019 at 8:17 PM, Gandalf said:

That’s great Pitt thinks that AB is worth a first. Let me see if I have this right... I think my house should be worth $2 million dollars. Now I just wait for the offers to come in right???

I think what the Steelers are saying is this is our house you can buy it at this price. You don't have to buy it but this is the price. It boggles my mind that people assume that the Steelers must trade Brown below what he is worth because he is acting poorly or even getting into trouble. He is under contract for multiple years they have paid a price up front and stand to take a hit for 21 million against their cap no matter what happens. They lose Brown either way by trading him or keeping him and he holds out so what is the difference? Why in the world would they take less than a first? He is a top 5 producer at the position right now. Anyone, here think Cooper is a better producer then Brown? Age is the difference between the two but any buyer is not buying Brown wanting to build around him. Is there anyone in this draft that can give proven production like Brown? Heck maybe include next years class too. The Steelers hold all the cards in a trade scenario. I'm not sure they ever really wanted to trade him. I would not doubt the Steelers told Brown what he wanted to hear that they would be willing to trade him if the price is right just to get him to calm down a bit knowing all along that if they did not get the price they wanted they would just keep him.  I would be very concerned if I was a Brown owner in Dynasty. I could see Brown holding out just as much as I can see him get traded.

So spin it this way the Steelers are to give up a player in the top 5 in his position and that can be argued to the point of being the top at his position. They are to take a hit for 21 million against the cap no matter if they trade or keep Brown. They paid Brown up front and now have him under contract for multiple years and they are supposed to take a 3rd or 4th for him? Why because Brown is unhappy with his contract and wants out of Pittsburgh or because of his dislike for the quarterback or the front office?

Or they can just give him away for a 3rd or 4th and be rid of a superstar player because he feels underpaid and unhappy. I can see the other side of the coin too but just can't see how the Steelers can part with a player like Brown for less than a first as the situation stands today.  I mean Martavis Bryant was traded for a 3rd to Oakland. Martavis "frigging" Bryant!!

 

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1 hour ago, daveR said:

So, if the team says to him, "All right.  The last two years are guaranteed" he'd play out the contract?  That's borderline absurd.  Do you REALLY think that's what he wants?

 I think it's absurd that you think you know what he wants.

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23 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Inquiring teams are Tennessee, Washington and Oakland. Good luck to AB dynasty holders.

I'm actually big on Oakland. Arguably no coach in history of the game has had better success getting big years out of WR's older then AB who unlike AB had shown signs of decline. Maybe the game passed Gruden by but even the corpse of Jordy Nelson started coming on late last year.

The other two would blow hard.

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2 hours ago, Bojang0301 said:

Inquiring teams are Tennessee, Washington and Oakland. Good luck to AB dynasty holders.

I don’t think Oakland is a bad spot. Sure his value take a hit, but that is true anywhere he signs outside of the Packers, Colts or Pats. Carr is capable enough and Gruden will scheme to get AB age ball. (It should be noted I thought Gruden relrepresented an upgrade for Cooper. What the hell do I know?)

Your right about the Redskins and Titans. I can’t make any case fir either team.

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I said the minute he became available Washington would be a major player. I honestly think he signs there. They probably promise him they draft a QB and pickup a free agent too.  He knows he'd be the clear #1 alpha male on that team, and Snyder will overpay him. Heck I could see Snyder saying they will draft whatever QB he wants lol 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

I said the minute he became available Washington would be a major player. I honestly think he signs there. They probably promise him they draft a QB and pickup a free agent too.  He knows he'd be the clear #1 alpha male on that team, and Snyder will overpay him. Heck I could see Snyder saying they will draft whatever QB he wants lol 

 

 

The Skins still have no QB for this year and only $15 million in cap space. AB would account for $12 million of that. Not sure how they finagle signing a decent free agent and drafting a QB. They would have to bite a huge bullet to get out from under Alex Smith’s contract. 

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11 hours ago, Bojang0301 said:

Inquiring teams are Tennessee, Washington and Oakland. Good luck to AB dynasty holders.

If TEN gets him, time to slit your wrists.

WAS and OAK have at least a chance of feeding him the ball.

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1 hour ago, ffmail4me said:

I said the minute he became available Washington would be a major player. I honestly think he signs there. They probably promise him they draft a QB and pickup a free agent too.  He knows he'd be the clear #1 alpha male on that team, and Snyder will overpay him. Heck I could see Snyder saying they will draft whatever QB he wants lol 

Brown is not a free agent. 

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AB to the Skins would be awesome in terms of the drama.  A franchise that thrives less on winning and more on buzz and news stories.  He would be the star attraction.  The problem is that for all the faults that Big Ben has at 70% healthy he is better than every Skins QB in the last 2 years COMBINED.

Oakland is a good choice if Gruden gets with the times and Carr comes back to his old way.  Last year Jon looked lost out there and Carr suffered because of it.

 

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29 minutes ago, hammerva said:

AB to the Skins would be awesome in terms of the drama.  A franchise that thrives less on winning and more on buzz and news stories.  He would be the star attraction.  The problem is that for all the faults that Big Ben has at 70% healthy he is better than every Skins QB in the last 2 years COMBINED.

Oakland is a good choice if Gruden gets with the times and Carr comes back to his old way.  Last year Jon looked lost out there and Carr suffered because of it.

 

Well technically 1 full season because 2 years ago Cousins was padding his garbage time stats in DC ;)

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10 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

 

Your right about the Redskins and Titans. I can’t make any case fir either team.

I can make a case for the Redskins. Obviously QB is the issue but Jay Gruden might be a plus. Jay had AJG the first 3 years of his career and AJG's second and third seasons of his career were his best ever and those two seasons he got 30 or more targets then he has since. That's actually pretty encouraging to me as well as fact that AJG performed at a high level with spare type QB in Dalton.

I don't believe the Redskins are putting out false signals on McCoy. If they obtain a QB in FA it would at best be comp for McCoy, like a Tannehill/Teddy B type at best. I'd imagine they try hard to get a QB in round one but at pick 15 without trading up they likely are picking the 3rd or 4th one.  So QB is problem it's going to be hard to get a quick fix on but I'd feel good about AB getting 170+ targets.

For a few reasons right now I'd bet even money he goes to Washington. To me they are clearly the heavy favorites.

I can't make a case for Tennessee and I've been saying for months here the Titans are aggressively going to try and get another big time WR this offseason but I'm surprised they are in on AB. Just seems like a bad fit for "nice guy" Mariotta. I think AB would run him over. AB will run over everyone in Washington as well but I think he'd at least get a ton of targets.

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Larry Fitzgerald says AB doesn’t know how good he has it and Michael Irvin of all people saying AB is going about this completely wrong and hurting his cause every time he does an interview.

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26 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I can make a case for the Redskins. Obviously QB is the issue but Jay Gruden might be a plus. Jay had AJG the first 3 years of his career and AJG's second and third seasons of his career were his best ever and those two seasons he got 30 or more targets then he has since. That's actually pretty encouraging to me as well as fact that AJG performed at a high level with spare type QB in Dalton.

I don't believe the Redskins are putting out false signals on McCoy. If they obtain a QB in FA it would at best be comp for McCoy, like a Tannehill/Teddy B type at best. I'd imagine they try hard to get a QB in round one but at pick 15 without trading up they likely are picking the 3rd or 4th one.  So QB is problem it's going to be hard to get a quick fix on but I'd feel good about AB getting 170+ targets.

For a few reasons right now I'd bet even money he goes to Washington. To me they are clearly the heavy favorites.

I can't make a case for Tennessee and I've been saying for months here the Titans are aggressively going to try and get another big time WR this offseason but I'm surprised they are in on AB. Just seems like a bad fit for "nice guy" Mariotta. I think AB would run him over. AB will run over everyone in Washington as well but I think he'd at least get a ton of targets.

If AB is moved to either Washington or Tennessee, he moves out of the top 25 WR. 

You would be looking at a WR3/Flex territory in either of those locations. 

For fantasy purposes, the best scenario is if AB stays in Pittsburgh, even if that remains unlikely. I'd put a move to NO a close second. IMO AB would still be a low end WR1/high end WR2 with the Saints. 

If AB goes to Oakland, he's a high end WR2.

You might think I'm selling AB short, but the impact of QB play cannot be overstated. The Skins and Titans offer dreadful options at QB.

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8 minutes ago, Bojang0301 said:

Larry Fitzgerald says AB doesn’t know how good he has it and Michael Irvin of all people saying AB is going about this completely wrong and hurting his cause every time he does an interview.

Hard to disagree. I literally cringed watching him on that horrible Lebron show last night. Also another example of how dumb he might be because he's complaining to Lebron that Big Ben has an "owners" mentality. To Lebron I say. The guy who has been de facto GM of whatever team is has been on for most of his career and who just said his goal is to one day own a team. 

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I think that's way too far of a drop for AB. That's venting. 

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3 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

If AB is moved to either Washington or Tennessee, he moves out of the top 25 WR. 

You would be looking at a WR3/Flex territory in either of those locations. 

For fantasy purposes, the best scenario is if AB stays in Pittsburgh, even if that remains unlikely. I'd put a move to NO a close second. IMO AB would still be a low end WR1/high end WR2 with the Saints. 

If AB goes to Oakland, he's a high end WR2.

You might think I'm selling AB short, but the impact of QB play cannot be overstated. The Skins and Titans offer dreadful options at QB.

Might be the most disagreeable post I've seen this offseason.

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Just now, menobrown said:

Hard to disagree. I literally cringed watching him on that horrible Lebron show last night. Also another example of how dumb he might be because he's complaining to Lebron that Big Ben has an "owners" mentality. To Lebron I say. The guy who has been de facto GM of whatever team is has been on for most of his career and who just said his goal is to one day own a team. 

Bunch of guys who have been millionaires since their early 20’s crying about how hard life is. Give me a ####### break. If HBO wants perspective how about a bunch of moms who got pregnant at 16 and never have made over 25k/year.

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1 minute ago, Bojang0301 said:

Bunch of guys who have been millionaires since their early 20’s crying about how hard life is. Give me a ####### break. If HBO wants perspective how about a bunch of moms who got pregnant at 16 and never have made over 25k/year.

Yea not to get off AB subject in his thread but that show is hard to take for reasons you said. Was not sure what was more embarrassing last night, brief few minutes AB spoke or Lebron using most of that show to bury his head up Anthony Davis rear so he'll come play with him.

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

Might be the most disagreeable post I've seen this offseason.

Why?

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4 minutes ago, Ack88 said:

Why?

Not sure what else I can say other then I don't agree with any of it. You said you might be selling AB short, no maybe to it.

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6 hours ago, Anarchy99 said:

The Skins still have no QB for this year and only $15 million in cap space. AB would account for $12 million of that. Not sure how they finagle signing a decent free agent and drafting a QB. They would have to bite a huge bullet to get out from under Alex Smith’s contract. 

Washington would have to make some cuts to create some cap space. You need about 10 million for the rookies alone. Washington just does not have the cap space. I'm not saying it can't be done because almost anything can be done but would take some interesting work on the front office side to get the numbers right. 

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