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Antonio Brown WR - PIT

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45 minutes ago, menobrown said:

You have to be suspended, teams can't just choose to not pay you.

Well... teams can suspend players and not pay them, as PHI did to TO. "Conduct detrimental to the team." So technically teams can just choose to suspend you and not pay you. Not trying to be picky here... but when I read your post I felt like you were implying they have to be suspended from the commissioner's office, and the team has no say really. 

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1 hour ago, killface said:

Lots of drama around the steelers for some reason.  I wonder if brown is close with bell

Stars tend to be drama queens or have large egos

Stars that start to get older can't stand when younger guys come in and either show more potential than them, or start to take some spot light off of them. Women, fans, ownership, coaching, whatever. They tend to have a hard time adjusting to change. Things are great when you're 27 and at the top of your game. Then 4-5 years later the team starts to groom or plan for the next generation and suddenly it's the worst team to play for. 

Ben was all set for retirement until they drafted Rudolph and now suddenly he wants to play several more years and refuses to mentor him. They think they're bigger than the team

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6 minutes ago, Boone22 said:

Rumor saying he was pissed because the team voted JuJu as team MVP and not Brown who had it the last 4 years previously...

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/03/team-mvp-snub-may-have-sparked-antonio-browns-ire/

juju's gonna have his bike stolen again it seems

 

Steelers need to award everyone with a team MVP award to avoid situations like this

Edited by Dr. Dan

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8 hours ago, Boone22 said:

Rumor saying he was pissed because the team voted JuJu as team MVP and not Brown who had it the last 4 years previously...

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/03/team-mvp-snub-may-have-sparked-antonio-browns-ire/

Team MVP? Does every NFL team participate in this? What an awful idea.

Seems like no good can come out of something like that in the ego-driven world of NFL football.

They already get paid millions, and get worshiped like gods/rock stars. Is a glorified employee of the month ribbon also needed to reward some lucky guy for doing his job well?

"Juju, here's your gift card for Lone Star Steakhouse... don't say anything to Antonio"

Edited by Dizzy
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40 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Well... teams can suspend players and not pay them, as PHI did to TO. "Conduct detrimental to the team." So technically teams can just choose to suspend you and not pay you. Not trying to be picky here... but when I read your post I felt like you were implying they have to be suspended from the commissioner's office, and the team has no say really. 

Should have been obvious I was talking about at a team imposed suspension.

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1 hour ago, Steeler said:

 

I disagree that we don't have anything to disagree on :lol: 

Showing up to the game is not enough to "make himself available to play" - that's too little too late.  He fell way short of the "make himself available to play" line.  His actions all made him unavailable to play.

I'll just ask one question and be done with this. If Tomlin allowed AB to play would he have been able and present to play? The answer is obviously yes.

Edited by menobrown

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17 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Team MVP? Does every NFL team participate in this? What an awful idea.

Seems like no good can come out of something like that in the ego-driven world of NFL football.

 

I dunno but the Steelers have been doing it for decades.  

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You know it just kills AB that a WR was named team MVP and it wasn’t him. It could be AB’s teammates sticking it to AB, but Juju did lead the team in receptions and yards and seems like a genuinely fun dude. Moving forward, with the major cap repercussions of trading/cutting AB, the Steelers surely would like him to play nice and fall back into line for 2019, but will Antonio’s ego get in the way? 

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3 minutes ago, Edgar said:

You know it just kills AB that a WR was named team MVP and it wasn’t him. It could be AB’s teammates sticking it to AB, but Juju did lead the team in receptions and yards and seems like a genuinely fun dude. Moving forward, with the major cap repercussions of trading/cutting AB, the Steelers surely would like him to play nice and fall back into line for 2019, but will Antonio’s ego get in the way? 

Big Ben has been the Steelers real most valuable player for most of his career but has only won the honor once.  He never whined or pouted about it that I can remember, unlike AB (who has won it 4 times)

Edited by Godsbrother

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2 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

Big Ben has been the Steelers real most valuable player for most of his career but has only won the honor once.  He never whined or pouted about it that I can remember, unlike AB.

Big Ben is the biggest problem on this team. He just doesn't make a media circus out of it

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4 minutes ago, Godsbrother said:

I dunno but the Steelers have been doing it for decades.  

I think other teams do it as well. But good point by whoever brought it up that it seems kind of odd and more divisive then anything.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

Big Ben is the biggest problem on this team. He just doesn't make a media circus out of it

Care to elaborate on that?

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24 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

Team MVP? Does every NFL team participate in this? What an awful idea.

Seems like no good can come out of something like that in the ego-driven world of NFL football.

They already get paid millions, and get worshiped like gods/rock stars. Is a glorified employee of the month ribbon also needed to reward some lucky guy for doing his job well done?

"Juju, here's your gift card for Lone Star Steakhouse... don't say anything to Antonio"

A quick google search for team mvps of various franchises turns up mostly espn, usa today style ranks from a writer or analyst.  Only Pittsburgh mentions such an award as a team thing.

Does seem like a bad idea in today’s “like” obsessed culture.

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1 minute ago, Dr. Dan said:

Big Ben is the biggest problem on this team. He just doesn't make a media circus out of it

Ben is constantly whining and “woe is me,” but the guy passed for 5K (while missing playoffs). He is not the problem. Without Ben, this franchise would be irrelevant

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7 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Ben is constantly whining and “woe is me,” but the guy passed for 5K (while missing playoffs). He is not the problem. Without Ben, this franchise would be irrelevant

His interception number was higher than you would like but that is going to happen when you throw the ball almost 700 times.   He had a bad game or two but ultimately he put the team in position to win at least 12 or 13 games.  You're not going to win all of those games but if not for a horrible placekicker and a couple of untimely fumbles the Steelers would like have been in contention for a first round bye instead of missing the playoffs.  Most of that was on Ben's arm.

Edited by Godsbrother

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7 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Ben is constantly whining and “woe is me,” but the guy passed for 5K (while missing playoffs). He is not the problem. Without Ben, this franchise would be irrelevant

Statistically he is not the problem. He doesn't take his frustrations out with his performance/availability, but his ego is about as big as ABs, he just doesn't make a fuss about it publicly. He just goes to ownership and gets coaches fired when he disagrees with them. Ownership worships Ben, and he knows it. 

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Just now, Dinsy Ejotuz said:
On 1/2/2019 at 1:11 PM, menobrown said:

something is mentally off with him

Certainly seems like it

In all honesty... too many blows to the head? 

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2 hours ago, menobrown said:

First I've heard he missed a game check.

Where did you hear that he lost a game check?

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Statistically he is not the problem. He doesn't take his frustrations out with his performance/availability, but his ego is about as big as ABs, he just doesn't make a fuss about it publicly. He just goes to ownership and gets coaches fired when he disagrees with them. Ownership worships Ben, and he knows it. 

Ben has an ego, like everybody must have to reach the pros, but it’s not his fault his team sinks every first rounder into a defense that can’t stop a nosebleed. 

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If he's having a meltdown because he didn't win an internal MVP award (which is sounding pretty plausible), the real question is, what do you do with a guy like that? As someone noted up thread, he's both paid and fed (volume wise). Can you ever really make a guy like this feel "special" enough?

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8 minutes ago, habsfan said:

If he's having a meltdown because he didn't win an internal MVP award (which is sounding pretty plausible), the real question is, what do you do with a guy like that? As someone noted up thread, he's both paid and fed (volume wise). Can you ever really make a guy like this feel "special" enough?

Rename the stadium after him, and elect him mayor?

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25 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

Statistically he is not the problem. He doesn't take his frustrations out with his performance/availability, but his ego is about as big as ABs, he just doesn't make a fuss about it publicly. He just goes to ownership and gets coaches fired when he disagrees with them. Ownership worships Ben, and he knows it. 

Ownership was the one that fired Ben's OC of choice and replaced him with a jerk that lasted about 4 games in Cleveland.

 

ETA:  Haley HAD to go -- it wasn't just Ben that wanted him out.  There was more than one offensive coach that couldn't stand him

Edited by Godsbrother
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7 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

Aside from AB which teammates are upset with Ben?    

You can knock Tomlin for a number of games this season but the two biggest games were the Patriots and Saints games.   Tomlin was not outcoached in either -- the game plans were sound and if not for late fumbles in the Saints game the Steelers would have won both and made the playoffs.

You pick which article that you want to read ... all points to the same character flaws in BR as far as I'm concerned.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/tag/ben-roethlisberger-throws-people-under-the-bus

Maybe teammates in PIT respect that about him .. but I can't imagine any professional athlete appreciates it or expects to be thrown under the bus because Ben has "earned the right to do so" as he claims.

It's just bad to put blame on anyone other than yourself.

As far as Tomlins "Big Wins" ... if you think a regular season win at home over the Pats is a "BIG WIN" this year ... you're team is much worse than I thought.

Steelers tried giving that game to NE on several different occasions.

But by beating NE at home, Tomlin has coached this team to the same caliber as teams like JAX, DET, MIA, and TEN this year. 

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1 minute ago, Bossman said:

You pick which article that you want to read ... all points to the same character flaws in BR as far as I'm concerned.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/tag/ben-roethlisberger-throws-people-under-the-bus

Maybe teammates in PIT respect that about him .. but I can't imagine any professional athlete appreciates it or expects to be thrown under the bus because Ben has "earned the right to do so" as he claims.

It's just bad to put blame on anyone other than yourself.

As far as Tomlins "Big Wins" ... if you think a regular season win at home over the Pats is a "BIG WIN" this year ... you're team is much worse than I thought.

Steelers tried giving that game to NE on several different occasions.

But by beating NE at home, Tomlin has coached this team to the same caliber as teams like JAX, DET, MIA, and TEN this year. 

 

The Steelers were in a do-or-die situation against a team that historically has their number whether away or at home.   It was the definition of a big game.  

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39 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Where did you hear that he lost a game check?

I was pointing out the fallacy of your take that he showed up to get paid. The only way he would not get paid is if he was suspended (by the team Dr. Dan) and I never heard anyone remotely suggest the Steelers were planning to do that and fact he was on the injury report might have made that difficult, not sure.   I've heard no reports that said he needed to show up at the stadium to get paid or was facing a suspension if he failed to report.  He just is so half crazy that he thought he could blow everyone off and show up and play but I can't find anything that suggests the motivation was his week 17 game check.

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It's pretty funny because I know Antonio Brown is coming across as crazy. But if I was in his shoes, knowing my personality and the way I would handle his success.

I would act the same way. 😂

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3 hours ago, Steeler said:

Exactly.  He also led all WR in TDs this year with 15 (a career high).  His anger with the Steelers is puzzling.

Someone probably looked at him the wrong way in the locker room, so he felt "dissed"

🙄

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I just don’t understand what Antonio wants out of all this. He’s locked in as a top paid receiver, led the league in receiving TDs and has a major following. If he’s not happy now, can he ever be happy?

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This is such a weird situation...  I'm guessing this all blows over with the contract situation being as it is.  The team may just chalk it up to players being frustrated that they missed the playoffs.

It probably won't be that long before this is out of the news cycle and Le'Veon Bell's franchise number is back at the top of the talking heads' list.

Edited by kittenmittens

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2 hours ago, Arodin said:

A quick google search for team mvps of various franchises turns up mostly espn, usa today style ranks from a writer or analyst.  Only Pittsburgh mentions such an award as a team thing.

Does seem like a bad idea in today’s “like” obsessed culture.

A search found team MVP's for the Ravens and Rams. IIRC a lot of teams (if not all) do it.

Quote

Annual NFL awards won’t be announced until the week before the Super Bowl, but the Los Angeles Rams revealed the winners of their team-specific honors. Aaron Donald, who’s the frontrunner for Defensive Player of the Year, was voted MVP by his teammates.

 

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They should trade him to like the Titans or Cardinals - somewhere that isn't a huge market and sucks at passing. 

Then throw the ball to Juju like 250 times next season.

Edited by fantasycurse42

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46 minutes ago, fantasycurse42 said:

They should trade him to like the Titans or Cardinals - somewhere that isn't a huge market and sucks at passing. 

Then throw the ball to Juju like 250 times next season.

Thats how the Blackhawks straightened out Patrick Kane years ago. He was becoming a massive distraction to the team and the GM sat him down and told him the coddling days were over, next stop was to trade him and it wasn't going to be to LA or NYC, it was going to be the worst team in the smallest market they could think of. Havent had many problems with Kane since (the rest of the team is another story).

Edited by mbuehner

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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

Colts

AFC playoff contender and probable 2019 opponent, doesn’t seem like a likely trade partner but stranger things have happened.

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6 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

 

The Steelers were in a do-or-die situation against a team that historically has their number whether away or at home.   It was the definition of a big game.  

LOL ... I bet Steeler fan is looking forward to hanging that banner next season.

"2018 Week 15 WINNER ... and regular season participant"

 

 

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7 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Team MVP? Does every NFL team participate in this? What an awful idea.

Seems like no good can come out of something like that in the ego-driven world of NFL football.

They already get paid millions, and get worshiped like gods/rock stars. Is a glorified employee of the month ribbon also needed to reward some lucky guy for doing his job well?

How babied do you want them to be? You can’t name someone the mvp because others will get their feelings hurt. This pc stuff is getting crazy.

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6 hours ago, menobrown said:

I was pointing out the fallacy of your take that he showed up to get paid. The only way he would not get paid is if he was suspended (by the team Dr. Dan) and I never heard anyone remotely suggest the Steelers were planning to do that and fact he was on the injury report might have made that difficult, not sure.   I've heard no reports that said he needed to show up at the stadium to get paid or was facing a suspension if he failed to report.  He just is so half crazy that he thought he could blow everyone off and show up and play but I can't find anything that suggests the motivation was his week 17 game check.

Really doesn't matter that you have "heard no reports" ...

I don't claim to know the legalities of it, but it just stands to reason that had he not shown up for a game ... aka "hold out" ... he would not be paid for said game.

Pretty sure Bell missed a check or 16 for the exact same reason.

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22 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Really doesn't matter that you have "heard no reports" ...

I don't claim to know the legalities of it, but it just stands to reason that had he not shown up for a game ... aka "hold out" ... he would not be paid for said game.

Pretty sure Bell missed a check or 16 for the exact same reason.

I tend to believe hearing a report does matter since when players get suspended it's actually reported.

This is not rules as you go kind of league. Players have unions and representation, you can't just not play a player after a game because you want to,   you should understand that much of the legality before continuing to make claims that AB showed up to get paid for week 17.

Also Bell was not under contract and it's actually not possible to "hold out" when you are not under contract, his situation and missing game checks is absolutely nothing like what AB just tried to pull.

AB skipped practice and the team should have suspended him. That's what Tomlin got wrong, should not have let it linger into Sunday.  But without a suspension he gets paid, it's actually really that simple.

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1 hour ago, voiceofunreason said:

How babied do you want them to be? You can’t name someone the mvp because others will get their feelings hurt. This pc stuff is getting crazy.

Well at least one version of this AB story is that the whole drama was touched off by JJSS being named the team MVP, so the answer to the bolded seems to be yes.

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24 minutes ago, menobrown said:

I tend to believe hearing a report does matter since when players get suspended it's actually reported.

This is not rules as you go kind of league. Players have unions and representation, you can't just not play a player after a game because you want to,   you should understand that much of the legality before continuing to make claims that AB showed up to get paid for week 17.

Also Bell was not under contract and it's actually not possible to "hold out" when you are not under contract, his situation and missing game checks is absolutely nothing like what AB just tried to pull.

AB skipped practice and the team should have suspended him. That's what Tomlin got wrong, should not have let it linger into Sunday.  But without a suspension he gets paid, it's actually really that simple.

So, in your mind, a player can skip a week of practice, a week of team meetings, NOT show up on game day, ... and expect to be paid for said game?

How about if he doesn't show up for the next one ... or the one after that? Still getting paid? 

He showed up on game day so he would get paid. Didn't want to lose a game check.

Or maybe not showing up on game day is grounds for suspension? That's a game check too.  

Either way he didn't want to be there but had a 1/16 of his salary on the line. It's actually really that simple.

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5 minutes ago, Bossman said:

So, in your mind, a player can skip a week of practice, a week of team meetings, NOT show up on game day, ... and expect to be paid for said game?

How about if he doesn't show up for the next one ... or the one after that? Still getting paid? 

He showed up on game day so he would get paid. Didn't want to lose a game check.

Or maybe not showing up on game day is grounds for suspension? That's a game check too.  

Either way he didn't want to be there but had a 1/16 of his salary on the line. It's actually really that simple.

I have no idea why you seem to think menobrown or anyone else thinks a player should/would get paid even if they don't bother to show up to the stadium on gameday.

Anyway, he was mainly trying to point out that Brown and Bell are completely different situations... although one thing they do have in common is that neither guy held out.

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4 hours ago, davearm said:

Well at least one version of this AB story is that the whole drama was touched off by JJSS being named the team MVP, so the answer to the bolded seems to be yes.

Then he should take his ball and go home, not be coddled further.

Having watched some Steelers games early in the year this shouldn’t surprise anyone. Juju was getting more targets while AB was struggling and every time Big Ben overthrew  AB or didn’t see him open he threw a temper tantrum. This has been building all year, if not for years. Can’t see how they bring a cancer like him back into the locker room even if it’s financially difficult. The mistake they made isn't having a team mvp, it’s letting him get away with this stuff for years. 

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1 hour ago, voiceofunreason said:

Then he should take his ball and go home, not be coddled further.

Having watched some Steelers games early in the year this shouldn’t surprise anyone. Juju was getting more targets while AB was struggling and every time Big Ben overthrew  AB or didn’t see him open he threw a temper tantrum. This has been building all year, if not for years. Can’t see how they bring a cancer like him back into the locker room even if it’s financially difficult. The mistake they made isn't having a team mvp, it’s letting him get away with this stuff for years. 

Yet, it was AB who made an amazing clutch catch on 4th-and-15 to momentarily save their playoff hopes until Juju fumbled them away.

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15 hours ago, menobrown said:

I was pointing out the fallacy of your take that he showed up to get paid. The only way he would not get paid is if he was suspended (by the team Dr. Dan) and I never heard anyone remotely suggest the Steelers were planning to do that and fact he was on the injury report might have made that difficult, not sure.   I've heard no reports that said he needed to show up at the stadium to get paid or was facing a suspension if he failed to report.  He just is so half crazy that he thought he could blow everyone off and show up and play but I can't find anything that suggests the motivation was his week 17 game check.

 

8 hours ago, davearm said:

I have no idea why you seem to think menobrown or anyone else thinks a player should/would get paid even if they don't bother to show up to the stadium on gameday.

Anyway, he was mainly trying to point out that Brown and Bell are completely different situations... although one thing they do have in common is that neither guy held out.

See bolded above.

Meno says the only way he misses a check is if he's suspended.

So I'm responding to Meno saying that Brown didn't have to show up for the game ... or any other game, and would continue to get paid as if he were playing.

because he "heard no reports" ... and Brown was not suspended.

I used Bell as a reference ... I understand it's a completely different situation ... but I tried to simplify for some to understand ...

Point I was trying to make, and Meno was arguing, was that Brown showed up on game day to get paid ...

 because in MY head, if a player doesn't show up for a game, team does not pay him. 

This concept is difficult for some to comprehend because it was not written about or spoken of in the media .... so how can this be true?

... and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he can just sit out several games and still get paid ... as long as the team doesn't suspend him?

Players that want to sit out games and get paid at least smart enough pull up with a fake hammy the first practice session if they want to sit out. ... but typically still need to show up for the game even if they don't dress.

Maybe the fake hammy is not even necessary? 

Meno believes Brown is so dumb that he thought Tomlin would just put him in the game anyway .... after missing several days of meetings, practice, and failure to respond to any communication attempts by the team, coaches, and his teammates.

Brown is dumb but I don't think Brown or anyone else is that dumb.

Edited by Bossman

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This is the juggling act of keeping a locker room under control, a "Steeler Way" culture intact yet still try to win a football game. Long term you could argue they should have suspended AB and/or told him to have a seat on the bench - for a quarter, a half, whatever - short term consequence be damned. Instead you now have a "diva" who's probably thinks there's a rule set for him and a different one for everyone else. The Bell situation was a mess but at least money was at the core of it. This sounds like a snowflake who just isn't "happy".

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1 hour ago, Shrugs said:

Yet, it was AB who made an amazing clutch catch on 4th-and-15 to momentarily save their playoff hopes until Juju fumbled them away.

What are you driving at with this post?

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9 hours ago, Bossman said:

LOL ... I bet Steeler fan is looking forward to hanging that banner next season.

"2018 Week 15 WINNER ... and regular season participant"

 

 

I was just disputing your statement that it wasn't a big game.   Since they ultimately missed the playoffs it doesn't matter much now but at the time the team was in a must-win situation against the New England Patriots.

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9 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

How babied do you want them to be? You can’t name someone the mvp because others will get their feelings hurt. This pc stuff is getting crazy.

Didn't you know that Millennials believe all players should get the team MVP.

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