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Chick Fil-A (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Night Hawks
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The Commish
Footballguy
The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Now this is some shtick commitment right here. Continued feigned ignorance, continued aversion to accountability. No point in being sincere now, I guess.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all they have to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm not sure what your definition of "non-orthodox" means because it's common meaning doesn't make much sense in this context. And again, to the bold, I go back to my initial comment. It meant "X" when they gave funds, what does it now tell you that they aren't sending funds? It's probably difficult to answer the second as it shines a light on the fallacy in the prior, but I"m interested how you reconcile it. Though, it doesn't appear you really want to go down that path given your resistance to addressing the already made point in previous posts.I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all they have to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
Politician Spock
Footballguy
or·tho·doxI'm not sure what your definition of "non-orthodox" means because it's common meaning doesn't make much sense in this context. And again, to the bold, I go back to my initial comment. It meant "X" when they gave funds, what does it now tell you that they aren't sending funds? It's probably difficult to answer the second as it shines a light on the fallacy in the prior, but I"m interested how you reconcile it. Though, it doesn't appear you really want to go down that path given your resistance to addressing the already made point in previous posts.I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all they have to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
ˈôrTHəˌdäks/
adjective
- 1.
(of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Then your comment about othodox is flat out wrong and the exact opposite is true.or·tho·doxI'm not sure what your definition of "non-orthodox" means because it's common meaning doesn't make much sense in this context. And again, to the bold, I go back to my initial comment. It meant "X" when they gave funds, what does it now tell you that they aren't sending funds? It's probably difficult to answer the second as it shines a light on the fallacy in the prior, but I"m interested how you reconcile it. Though, it doesn't appear you really want to go down that path given your resistance to addressing the already made point in previous posts.I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all they have to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
ˈôrTHəˌdäks/
adjective
And I've already told you their decision to stop funding gay hating groups doesn't mean they don't hate gays. Plenty of people who don't hate gays don't fund gay hating groups and never have. Those that fund gay hating groups are a subset of those that hate gays.
- 1.
(of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
I know what you said....it's an interesting quandary you got yourself into. You're at a point where if you see X, Y is true, but if you don't see X Y is still true. It doesn't seem like you even need X at this point 
Chaka
Footballguy
Well couldn't it just mean that their stance negatively impacted revenue and/or they succumbed to public pressure?
I find it less likely that they changed their belief on the issue but it is certainly possible.
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
Wow, this thread got awfully stupid.
The Commish
Footballguy
It could mean a bunch of things just like it could mean a bunch of things that they donated money, which is my point. We won't even get into the discussion over whether or not donating money to political action groups to support their cause is "hate". That's what the foundation did. It donated money to political groups that supported the notion of "traditional marriage" and fought against "gay marriage".
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Anyone who claims to be a Christian but doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin has a non-orthodox Christian belief. As I said before, I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs, one of which is that homosexuality is a sin. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all one has to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.Then your comment about othodox is flat out wrong and the exact opposite is true.or·tho·doxI'm not sure what your definition of "non-orthodox" means because it's common meaning doesn't make much sense in this context. And again, to the bold, I go back to my initial comment. It meant "X" when they gave funds, what does it now tell you that they aren't sending funds? It's probably difficult to answer the second as it shines a light on the fallacy in the prior, but I"m interested how you reconcile it. Though, it doesn't appear you really want to go down that path given your resistance to addressing the already made point in previous posts.I agree there are probably some non-orthodox Christians who don't hate gays. Not every Christian believes in the orthodox set of Christian beliefs. To know where CFA lands on that spectrum, all they have to see is that CFA funded gay hating groups. Case closed.The first part doesn't change my point in any fashion. The second part....yeah, no. Sounds like you got caught up in a bad batch of "Christians" and that sucks but plenty of Christians are outside that scope and the opposite is probably more true (semantics allow "Christians" to hate gays)Politician Spock said:
ˈôrTHəˌdäks/
adjective
And I've already told you their decision to stop funding gay hating groups doesn't mean they don't hate gays. Plenty of people who don't hate gays don't fund gay hating groups and never have. Those that fund gay hating groups are a subset of those that hate gays.
- 1.
(of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm stupid for engaging in it...sorry....move on. No more comments on that from me 
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
If you advocate denying gays civil rights, you should be prepared to be perceived that way. I'm sure many people who didn't want to serve African Americans at their lunch counters argued that they weren't motivated by animus. But that doesn't excuse the effect of their actions.
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RBM
Footballguy
In the least shocking news of the day, to some of the craziest on the board, yes, that's what it boils down to.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
When I was a Christian I was taught to separate the two by saying "love the sinner, hate the sin". It made me feel better about myself, but it did NOTHING to help the person I was accusing of sin. What I see as a sin to them is who they are. So in their eyes I hate who they are.
But the hatred just doesn't stop at a Christian's belief that it's a sin. It goes much father than that. Christians believe that god punishes nations for the sins of its citizens. So for the Christian, it can't just end on a "let's agree to disagree and move on living the lives we choose." The Christian has to stop the homosexual from pissing off God, because the wrath of God will be poured out on the entire nation, not just the homosexuals.
So yes, in addition to Christians believing homosexuals will burn in hell, they have a vested interest in their minds to stop what homosexuals do. There are probably more accurate words to use for this position, like "oppression". But "hate" fits the bill, and is what came from the Christians to describe their position when they said "love the sinner, HATE the sin." So Christians have admitted that it's hate.
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James Daulton
Footballguy
Just as an aside, burning in hell for all time for some decisions made during a relatively short life seems like a pretty extreme punishment.
Chaka
Footballguy
I shouldn't have used the word hate in my initial question.
To answer your question I can't think of any positive ways to view trying to deny equal rights. YMMV
The Commish
Footballguy
Damn PS....you grew up in some backwards ####...so sorry. I'd bail on that particular belief system too 
Politician Spock
Footballguy
I went to Liberty's seminary for a few semesters. What I said above reflects the beliefs of the Southern Baptist Convention. The founder of CFA was a devout Southern Baptist.Damn PS....you grew up in some backwards ####...so sorry. I'd bail on that particular belief system too
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Like I said...so sorry, but given the source it now makes sense.I went to Liberty's seminary for a few semesters. What I said above reflects the beliefs of the Southern Baptist Convention. The founder of CFA was a devout Southern Baptist.Damn PS....you grew up in some backwards ####...so sorry. I'd bail on that particular belief system too
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Swordfight?
RBM
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
I am a Christian, and I disagree with what you are representing in this thread. Bottom line, IMO anyone who accepts Christ as his Savior will be saved, even though none of us are without sin. That includes gay people. The fundamental problem for gay people is that so many Christians characterize gay people as sinners and thus unable to be saved that it is rare that gay people accept Christ as their Savior. So Christian attitudes push gay people away from Christ, which IMO is not what Christians are called to do. It is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
None of that is the purpose of this thread. I love CFA food, and it is my fast food of choice if it is an option. My view of CFA food is not influenced by the surrounding politics/views.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
And how does this apply to the many, many, MANY homosexuals who don't give two #### about being saved by a religion, but have been oppressed by said religion throughout history?
Just because the doctrine of Christianity says homosexuals can be saved just like any other sinner doesn't mean that doctrine can be used to oppress non-religious people from living their lives with the same legal rights religious people have.
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Chaka
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Equally what? There are some anti-gay marriage people who truly hate gays. But you aren't necessarily a gay hater because you oppose gay marriage
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
Spock, the discussion you're trying to have here has moved way outside the scope of this thread. I'll just say that a lot of the claims you're making about Christianity, what Christians believe, and what is "orthodox" requires ignoring the purpose of the New Covenant and a near complete misunderstanding of the main ideas shared in the New Testament. I get a lot of the anger you have about your journey, but IMO how you're dealing with it is a bit misguided. A lot of what you're saying here is parsing out minutiae and missing the thousand-foot-view.
I'm not interested in discussing that further in this thread, so it's probably a bit unfair to say what I've said here, but I felt like I needed to say something. I recommend starting a new thread for continuing the conversation you want to have here.
I'm not interested in discussing that further in this thread, so it's probably a bit unfair to say what I've said here, but I felt like I needed to say something. I recommend starting a new thread for continuing the conversation you want to have here.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Sounds like you have a lot of personal issues you should deal with quietly, by yourself.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The founder of CFA was a devout Southern Baptist. I understand there is a lot of diversity among the set of people who call themselves "Christians" such that a lot of what I've shared is quite arguable among all "Christians". Because of the amount of diversity among Christianity, Christianity is very arguable by it's very nature.
None of those arguments however have nothing to do with anything I've shared here, because what I've shared is the Southern Baptist Conventions view on the matter, which is the view the founder of CFA was devoted to.
The Commish
Footballguy
To be fair....you started the conversation by using "Christians"....distinction towards Southern Baptists didn't come until later. That's why I hopped into the conversation, but after telling me of your experience and narrowed perspective, it made a lot more sense. Take that FWIW.
Chaka
Footballguy
"Equality" not "equally"Equally what?There are some anti-gay marriage people who truly hate gays. But you aren't necessarily a gay hater because you oppose gay marriage
Again I apologize for using the word "hate" in my initial post, I didn't realize it would set off a ####storm. I don't see any favorable way to spin the the attempt to deny individuals equality. Trying to cache it as a specific type of equality (i.e. marriage equality) does nothing to change the fact that some people were/are trying to deny equality to others. When the end result is the same does it really matter if they meet whatever criteria that defines of hate? They oppose equality for others and in the process align themselves with those who do the same out of hate.
It's really not very Christmassy.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
The orthodox Christian belief is that homosexuality is a sin and that God hates sin. Christians, like God, are to hate the sin. Anyone who is a Christian who believes differently has a non-orthodox Christian belief.
It is the Southern Baptists who take it farther and believe they need to stop homosexuality from growing in this country so that God doesn't pour out his wrath on the entire country because of them. The Baptists are very much activists. In fact, if they stopped, the entire anti-gay marriage force that exists in this country would virtually disappear.
The Commish
Footballguy
Bigotry is usually a pretty good way to start."Equality" not "equally"Equally what?There are some anti-gay marriage people who truly hate gays. But you aren't necessarily a gay hater because you oppose gay marriage
Again I apologize for using the word "hate" in my initial post, I didn't realize it would set off a ####storm. I don't see any favorable way to spin the the attempt to deny individuals equality. Trying to cache it as a specific type of equality (i.e. marriage equality) does nothing to change the fact that some people were/are trying to deny equality to others. When the end result is the same does it really matter if they meet whatever criteria that defines of hate? They oppose equality for others and in the process align themselves with those who do the same out of hate.
It's really not very Christmassy.
The Commish
Footballguy
This is different than what you said before, but as others have said, it's for another thread. However, even this assertion, I'd challenge, especially if you step out of the Southern Baptist perspective.....again, for another thread.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Mr. Ected
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
That's really not very Christmassy.Bigotry is usually a pretty good way to start."Equality" not "equally"Equally what?There are some anti-gay marriage people who truly hate gays. But you aren't necessarily a gay hater because you oppose gay marriage
Again I apologize for using the word "hate" in my initial post, I didn't realize it would set off a ####storm. I don't see any favorable way to spin the the attempt to deny individuals equality. Trying to cache it as a specific type of equality (i.e. marriage equality) does nothing to change the fact that some people were/are trying to deny equality to others. When the end result is the same does it really matter if they meet whatever criteria that defines of hate? They oppose equality for others and in the process align themselves with those who do the same out of hate.
It's really not very Christmassy.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
bigot
noun big·ot \ˈbi-gət\: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person;especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
noun big·ot \ˈbi-gət\: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person;especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
It's hard to believe that rational discourse existed before modern technology allowed you to bold and enlarge the font of dictionary definitions on the internet. It's really the missing ingredient that helps us make progress here.
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