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*** Chicago Cubs 2011 World Champions Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Statorama
- Start date
boubucarow
Footballguy
Just the tip of the iceberg.Just the tip.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
pantagrapher
Footballguy
IN
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
The book is barely closed on Year One and Ricketts is already panhandling the state for some dough.
http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/11...de-wrigley.html
Looks like the 100+ drought isn't ending anytime soon.
http://chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/11...de-wrigley.html
Looks like the 100+ drought isn't ending anytime soon.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
This team is the best 
in baseball.
in baseball.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
If the Cubs sign this clown I might have to quit this effing team. Chicago has enough donkeys that can't make contact at the plate without Pena's atrocious bat in the lineup.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
One year, ten million.Welcome to the club?If the Cubs sign this clown I might have to quit this effing team. Chicago has enough donkeys that can't make contact at the plate without Pena's atrocious bat in the lineup.
boubucarow
Footballguy
It looks like to me the Cubs are trying to set up a salary purge.
2011 - ####udome (13.5M off the books), Ramirez (14.6M with 2M buyout), Silva (11.5M with 2M buyout), Grabow (4.8M), and now it seems Pena (10M)
2012 - Dempster (14M), Byrd (6.5M)
That leaves 37.2M committed to Soriano/Zambrano in 2013 and 18M to Soriano in 2014 to the old guard.
The big problem is that the Cubs hitter prospects that are expected to be most ready by the end of 2011/beginning of 2012 are mainly outfielders. Colvin must get 600 PA this year and should get 700 PA while the other OF fit around him. Other OF like Brett Jackson and Brandon Guyer could be ready by the start of next year or earlier with no starting spots open. The possible openings on the infield corners have appear to have no takers in the upper minors aside from if Vitters ever figures out what pitches not to swing at. Chris Archer, Jay Jackson, Chris Carpenter, and Trey McNutt could be challengers for the rotation in the next 2 years and there are spots to be taken if they impress.
It is interesting to see if Quade can survive an environment where the Cubs are avoiding adding long term salary and looking at one year flyers on veterans and prospects to fill spots. Unless the right player at the right price becomes available, I have no problem with the Cubs waiting for all or most of these contracts to expire to begin adding the pieces around their youth by 2013.
2011 - ####udome (13.5M off the books), Ramirez (14.6M with 2M buyout), Silva (11.5M with 2M buyout), Grabow (4.8M), and now it seems Pena (10M)
2012 - Dempster (14M), Byrd (6.5M)
That leaves 37.2M committed to Soriano/Zambrano in 2013 and 18M to Soriano in 2014 to the old guard.
The big problem is that the Cubs hitter prospects that are expected to be most ready by the end of 2011/beginning of 2012 are mainly outfielders. Colvin must get 600 PA this year and should get 700 PA while the other OF fit around him. Other OF like Brett Jackson and Brandon Guyer could be ready by the start of next year or earlier with no starting spots open. The possible openings on the infield corners have appear to have no takers in the upper minors aside from if Vitters ever figures out what pitches not to swing at. Chris Archer, Jay Jackson, Chris Carpenter, and Trey McNutt could be challengers for the rotation in the next 2 years and there are spots to be taken if they impress.
It is interesting to see if Quade can survive an environment where the Cubs are avoiding adding long term salary and looking at one year flyers on veterans and prospects to fill spots. Unless the right player at the right price becomes available, I have no problem with the Cubs waiting for all or most of these contracts to expire to begin adding the pieces around their youth by 2013.
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Grahamburn
Footballguy
One year, ten million.Welcome to the club?If the Cubs sign this clown I might have to quit this effing team. Chicago has enough donkeys that can't make contact at the plate without Pena's atrocious bat in the lineup.
I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.dennis.moore
Footballguy
Got a better chance now with Reynolds in the AL.One year, ten million.Welcome to the club?
boubucarow
Footballguy
Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
They had no chance at Gonzalez because they can't afford him.Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
boubucarow
Footballguy
Keep living in your fantasy world where the Cubs will start to be strapped for cash. We have little idea who else was involved for Gonzalez but the Cubs only issue with him would have been 2011. If they could have fit in him then, his contract would have been easily fit it under the budget in subsequent years.Just enjoy the fact that they gave out a bunch of huge contracts that have put them in the position they are as well as the big offseason the White Sox are having. But if you are thinking the Cubs won't be spending a ton of money come 2012 offseason if not sooner, you are very delusional.They had no chance at Gonzalez because they can't afford him.Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
I'm not wild about the Pena deal but it seems this year will be a lost anyhow...so at least it's only a 1 year contract.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Cubbies rumored to be talking to the Rays about acquiring Garza.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
boubucarow said:Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.Grahamburn said:
Give that $10 million to someone who will actually move a runner over instead of striking out or popping up in a key situation. I've just watched this guy play for several years in a row living in the Tampa area and he is a HUGE hole in any lineup. He has no plate discipline or count awareness. It's always an all or nothing at bat regardless of the game situation.This is yet another example why the Rays can field competitive teams year in and year out with low payrolls while the Cubs spend big and lose big every season. Idiots.
Eephus
Footballguy
The Rays paid Pena $10.25M last year. The Cubs are paying him $10M this year. What's the difference?boubucarow said:Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.Grahamburn said:I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
boubucarow
Footballguy
And the questions remains, who would have been better?The Rays paid Pena $10.25M last year. The Cubs are paying him $10M this year. What's the difference?boubucarow said:Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.Grahamburn said:I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
Give that $10 million to someone who will actually move a runner over instead of striking out or popping up in a key situation. I've just watched this guy play for several years in a row living in the Tampa area and he is a HUGE hole in any lineup. He has no plate discipline or count awareness. It's always an all or nothing at bat regardless of the game situation.This is yet another example why the Rays can field competitive teams year in and year out with low payrolls while the Cubs spend big and lose big every season. Idiots.
Eephus
Footballguy
I think a one-year market rate deal for Pena is probably better than a multi-year deal for someone like Adam LaRoche. Pena offers more power than someone like Overbay or Nick Johnson, which the Cubs need. Pena isn't the long term solution but he'll keep the spot warm.The big question is whether the Cubs will make a serious run at Prince Fielder, who's looking like the only 1B FA option next year. Their system doesn't look like it has a lot of bats coming up in the future. I like Brett Jackson but he's not a 30 HR guy.
boubucarow
Footballguy
As it stands right now, the only 30 HR guy coming up could be Vitters at 3B but he might be a .300 OBP guy if he doesn't learn to not swing at everything. Jackson is do-it-all type who will get on base but 30 HR is asking for a bit too much. Guyer is looking like he could make the team soon in the outfield but he is a 15 HR guy. Beyond that any player has a lot of development to go. I hope to see what a full time Colvin can produce after 20 HR in 358 AB although he is a lot like Vitters with only a 315 OBP last year. First base has to come from outside the organization for the foreseeable future. And if the outfield is Colvin, Jackson, Guyer in 2015, power from the corner infielders is probably a must. It will be telling to see if the Cubs are in the Fielder sweepstakes next fall because there is little doubt he will be the best option. If that is the plan, there is no doubt that a one year deal was the best option.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Sorry, but it's no pipe dream.Ricketts has only been in power for a little over a year, and he's already on bended knee pleading with the state for money which he's not going to get.Attendance is down two straight years, and with the product on the field it's going to go down again this year. And as that happens, the revenue starts to dwindle. This is now a family business (see Chicago Bears). Purse strings will be drawn tight. It won't get to the point that they fall out of the top 10 / 12 in payroll, but payroll isn't increasing anytime soon. The only way they will win will to be to build from within. Considering the track record of the people in place, you better start thinking that 103 years isn't a long time.boubucarow said:Keep living in your fantasy world where the Cubs will start to be strapped for cash. We have little idea who else was involved for Gonzalez but the Cubs only issue with him would have been 2011. If they could have fit in him then, his contract would have been easily fit it under the budget in subsequent years.Just enjoy the fact that they gave out a bunch of huge contracts that have put them in the position they are as well as the big offseason the White Sox are having. But if you are thinking the Cubs won't be spending a ton of money come 2012 offseason if not sooner, you are very delusional.Limp Ditka said:They had no chance at Gonzalez because they can't afford him.boubucarow said:Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.Grahamburn said:I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
boubucarow
Footballguy
Attendance has slipped by 3,000 a game in two years and the Cubs drew at over 92% capacity last year. After the Cubs lost in the 2003 playoffs, they posted 89, 79, and then 66 wins not making the playoffs. The attendance slipped to 94% capacity in 2006. The White Sox haven't outdrawn the Cubs since the early 90's despite being a far more successful club and more capacity. The Cubs outdrew the Sox by 10K last year winning winning 13 less games.Will attendance slip again if the Cubs get off to a bad start, sure. Will it drop so much as to dramatically hurt the bottom line, little chance. Ricketts is asking for money to update Wrigley Field, period. The Cubs payroll will be around 130M this year which will be in the top 8 team range like they have been ranging from as high as #3 down. Not much changing there. The Cubs will draw more than the White Sox and be able to spend more than the White Sox from year to year. The key is if the Cubs continue to make bad decisions with their money.Now if you are tying to state that the Cubs will continue to misspend, fine. I can understand that hope from a South Side fan.But if you are saying their payroll will suffer long term from the new ownership and a fall in the standings, I don't see the evidence.Sorry, but it's no pipe dream.Ricketts has only been in power for a little over a year, and he's already on bended knee pleading with the state for money which he's not going to get.Attendance is down two straight years, and with the product on the field it's going to go down again this year. And as that happens, the revenue starts to dwindle. This is now a family business (see Chicago Bears). Purse strings will be drawn tight. It won't get to the point that they fall out of the top 10 / 12 in payroll, but payroll isn't increasing anytime soon. The only way they will win will to be to build from within. Considering the track record of the people in place, you better start thinking that 103 years isn't a long time.boubucarow said:Keep living in your fantasy world where the Cubs will start to be strapped for cash. We have little idea who else was involved for Gonzalez but the Cubs only issue with him would have been 2011. If they could have fit in him then, his contract would have been easily fit it under the budget in subsequent years.Just enjoy the fact that they gave out a bunch of huge contracts that have put them in the position they are as well as the big offseason the White Sox are having. But if you are thinking the Cubs won't be spending a ton of money come 2012 offseason if not sooner, you are very delusional.Limp Ditka said:They had no chance at Gonzalez because they can't afford him.boubucarow said:Not overjoyed about Pena at 1st this year either. But what would you have wanted? LaRoche? I am guessing they had no chance at Gonzalez with the Padre knowledge of the Red Sox system and probably better prospects on top of it.Grahamburn said:I'm pretty bummed right now. Pena and Soriano could lead the NL in strikeouts by themselves. Awful signing.
boubucarow
Footballguy
From Jayson Starks strange but true
• We're still trying to figure out our favorite Strange But True Carlos Marmol feat of the year. Here's one: He piled up more strikeouts in relief (138) this past season than 63 starting pitchers who made at least 20 starts.
• And here's another one: Marmol faced 332 hitters this past season. Only 134 of them figured out a way to have the ball leave the batter's box. Everybody else (all 198 of them) either walked, got hit by a pitch or whiffed. No kidding.
I was at the game when he struck out Hart, Braun, and Fielder swinging. In 15 pitches, only Fielder fouled off a pitched and it was barely. They had no chance.
• We're still trying to figure out our favorite Strange But True Carlos Marmol feat of the year. Here's one: He piled up more strikeouts in relief (138) this past season than 63 starting pitchers who made at least 20 starts.
• And here's another one: Marmol faced 332 hitters this past season. Only 134 of them figured out a way to have the ball leave the batter's box. Everybody else (all 198 of them) either walked, got hit by a pitch or whiffed. No kidding.
I was at the game when he struck out Hart, Braun, and Fielder swinging. In 15 pitches, only Fielder fouled off a pitched and it was barely. They had no chance.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Marmol is a bit wild but when he's on his A game I daresay he's the best closer in all of baseball.
boubucarow
Footballguy
Yeah, agreed. He almost always was wild on the first batter and then would often improve. Also, his devastating slider that makes hitters look goofy is much more controllable than his fastball.
Holy ####.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Cubs selling the farm to get Garza from the Rays. What the #### are they thinking?
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
When they leave the likes of Jim Hendry and Crane Kenney in place, what do you expect?
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
Garza is a solid player. Who exactly are they giving up?
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Yeah, Garza is solid. And he'll surely improve in the NL Central. But the Cubs aren't in a position to be dealing this many top prospects.
link
Captain Hook
Footballguy
Selling the Farm?? really? The five prospects they are giving up might never play for the Rays - they didn't give up any of their top guysArcher is the only one I see with a good shot and the Rays are already very deep in pitching so even that is a maybe
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Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
No way is Garza worth all that. I can't believe the Cubs would give up that much.
Dr. Awesome
Footballguy
It's not a matter of whether these guys will play for the Rays. It's whether they'd play for the Cubs. Whether they'd be able to trade any of these folk off for somebody else.
faulknromos
Footballguy
WOW. Lol thanks Hendry for getting trade raped.
Statorama
gangster
Anytime I can get a CC Sabathia for a Matt LaPorta I do it every time. NONE of the prospects mentioned is in the same hemisphere as LaPorta was as a prospect.Garza isn't eligible for FA until 2014. I think the Cubs did ok here.
Premier
Footballguy
None of their top prospects?? Archer is ranked #1 by Baseball America.
Eephus
Footballguy
The Cubs system isn't exactly loaded, but it'll be a lot less after the trade.I think the Greinke trade is a good point of reference. Greinke>>Garza but the extra cost-controlled year for Garza closes the gap. The Royals got three MLB ready players and the Brewers' #1 prospect. I don't think the deal is necessarily that bad for the Cubs.Premier said:
Premier
Footballguy
Well if you want to go that stupid route and compare everybody to one player, maybe you guys just got stuck with Scott Kazmir.
Andrew Friedman doesn't make many bad trades. I'll roll with him here.
pantagrapher
Footballguy
Looking at it more, it's not as horrible as I initially thought. But I'm still not crazy about it. I'm glad I don't see Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters out there, because I think both have a chance to be solid. Dealing Lee makes sense with the emergence of Castro. I hate losing Archer and Guyer though.
Statorama
gangster
I was indicting the Cubs developmental system and history more than I was comparing him to Patterson.Well if you want to go that stupid route and compare everybody to one player, maybe you guys just got stuck with Scott Kazmir.
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