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Ryan Fitzpatrick

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37 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

I agree with you that asking for Geno is a bit crazy and that Fitz won't get fat and happy, but only the most elite players are playing close to 40 (how many have their been? 2-3? I'm not counting steady backup types who don't actually play). In reality, if Fitz gets a 3 year deal, it'll probably be his last contract. He might not be good enough for people to want to pay him several million a year to sit behind a starter. I'd think they would rather use that roster spot to develop someone with upside. Additionally, he's too error prone. When you sign a backup like Hasselbeck, if he gets in the game, you want him to just be a game manager. Fitz turns it over too much to play that role.

Again, I like Fitz and I mostly agree with you, but this is his last shot to cash in. He seems like a really good guy and might be able to sell himself as a player-coach to help develop a project QB3 while he's the QB2 so that a team would pay him to be a backup, but he doesn't have the skill set to be one of those guys still playing in the league at or near 40.

Josh McCown - 37

Luke McCown -35

Shaun Hill - 36

Even if he signs a 3 year deal (we know he's not getting three years of starter money so he's not going to do that) he comes out of that at 36.  Quality backups are getting $4M, $4.5M, $7M per year now and in three years will be getting what?  $6M average?

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2 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

Josh McCown - 37

Luke McCown -35

Shaun Hill - 36

Even if he signs a 3 year deal (we know he's not getting three years of starter money so he's not going to do that) he comes out of that at 36.  Quality backups are getting $4M, $4.5M, $7M per year now and in three years will be getting what?  $6M average?

Who is getting $7M? Chase Daniels? I think they signed him as a possible starter if the Bradford experiment fizzled. Probably got in a bidding war with KC. Is anyone else getting paid that much to be a backup?

But I think this is his last shot at starting QB pay and it's possible that if he falls on his face in the 2nd or 3rd year that no one signs him as a backup. This really could be his last contract overall. However, I think you are likely right that he gets offered a backup job in 3 years, but I would be shocked if he's a week 1 starter in 2019.

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You're overthinking it.  I was incredulous at the guy stating definitely that this is his final contract and that he'd get fat and lazy.  There is zero indication of either.  And hoping for Geno just added to the crazy.

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14 minutes ago, Hankmoody said:

You're overthinking it.  I was incredulous at the guy stating definitely that this is his final contract and that he'd get fat and lazy.  There is zero indication of either.  And hoping for Geno just added to the crazy.

Yeah, you're probably right. And yes, hoping for Geno is crazy. It's not impossible he turns his career around, but I wouldn't bet on it.

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7 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

Lol, I love it. The Jets leak to the media what a greedy **** Fitz is being by not accepting their $12mill offer so Fitz goes to the media and accepts their offer. So I guess this thing is a done deal according to everyone that said in this thread that he was turning down $12mil right?......

 

The Jets don't have $12MM in cap space so need the hit to be spread out over the three years which is why they offered him the three year deal with far lesser money in years 2 and 3. Both sides are being disingenuous every step of the way, but imo the Jets are on the more realistic side of the negotiation process and have the stronger argument.

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

The Jets don't have $12MM in cap space so need the hit to be spread out over the three years which is why they offered him the three year deal with far lesser money in years 2 and 3. Both sides are being disingenuous every step of the way, but imo the Jets are on the more realistic side of the negotiation process and have the stronger argument.

That structure locks Fitz in to three years at 8mil a year.

Does anyone view 8mil as even resembling starting qb money?  Seems rather insulting, even for a journeyman.

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9 minutes ago, Arodin said:

That structure locks Fitz in to three years at 8mil a year.

Does anyone view 8mil as even resembling starting qb money?  Seems rather insulting, even for a journeyman.

I'm guessing they don't really want him to be starting in 2017, so that would be really, really good backup money.

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10 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

I'm guessing they don't really want him to be starting in 2017, so that would be really, really good backup money.

This.

Didn't Fitz willingly sign a 2 year 8 Million dollar contract with the Texans in 2014 with hopes of being the starter?  Now because he "almost" brought the Jets to the playoffs last year, he is deserving of more than 2x that deal?  He's still the same player.  May not have even started last year without Geno's broken jaw.  As many have pointed out in here, the dude choked big time in big moments down the stretch.  He's a stop gap.  That's it.  He could Dilfer his way into a championship, but the stars would have to align perfectly.

If I were the Jets, I would let him "show us" and sign elsewhere for less.  He's not going to because he's smarter than that.  He will not get any more than they are currently offering, which is a fair amount to start this year, then hopefully hold a clipboard the next two.

Edited by jmo87usc

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6 minutes ago, jmo87usc said:

This.

Didn't Fitz willingly sign a 2 year 8 Million dollar contract with the Texans in 2014 with hopes of being the starter?  Now because he "almost" brought the Jets to the playoffs last year, he is deserving of more than 2x that deal?  He's still the same player.  May not have even started last year without Geno's broken jaw.  As many have pointed out in here, the dude choked big time in big moments down the stretch.  He's a stop gap.  That's it.  He could Dilfer his way into a championship, but the stars would have to align perfectly.

If I were the Jets, I would let him "show us" and sign elsewhere for less.  He's not going to because he's smarter than that.  He will not get any more than they are currently offering, which is a fair amount to start this year, then hopefully hold a clipboard the next two.

To be fair he was coming off a partial season with the Titans where he almost had a 1:1 TD to INT ratio. The season before he had gotten dumped by Buffalo for maybe EJ Manual or somebody. Nobody really wanted him, so he needed a shot to prove himself and Houston was his best shot. Now he's coming off his best TD output with an unFitzpatrick like 2:1 ratio, so he's trying to cash in.

He's not a world beater, but he's better than Geno so the Jets will be hurting if he signs elsewhere and Fitzpatrick will be hurting in the checkbook if he signs elsewhere. This deal really needs to get done.

I was pretty disappointed when the Texans opted to go with Hoyer over Fitzpatrick and even though the Texans made the playoffs and the Jets didn't, I still think the Texans effed up.

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3 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

To be fair he was coming off a partial season with the Titans where he almost had a 1:1 TD to INT ratio. The season before he had gotten dumped by Buffalo for maybe EJ Manual or somebody. Nobody really wanted him, so he needed a shot to prove himself and Houston was his best shot. Now he's coming off his best TD output with an unFitzpatrick like 2:1 ratio, so he's trying to cash in.

He's not a world beater, but he's better than Geno so the Jets will be hurting if he signs elsewhere and Fitzpatrick will be hurting in the checkbook if he signs elsewhere. This deal really needs to get done.

I was pretty disappointed when the Texans opted to go with Hoyer over Fitzpatrick and even though the Texans made the playoffs and the Jets didn't, I still think the Texans effed up.

You are correct about the 2014 contract.  I guess I just consider getting 2x as much as his 2014 contract a fair amount of "cashing in" for him.  Nobody wanted him because he's just not that good.  I like the guy and I like his work ethic.  It's also very evident that Marshall and Decker like him.  But enough of the game.  On a fantasy football level this is like a trade being hung up over a 5th round rookie pick.  To quote Dr. Phil, and I swear I don't watch him(anymore), someone needs to step up and be the hero here.

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26 minutes ago, Arodin said:

That structure locks Fitz in to three years at 8mil a year.

Does anyone view 8mil as even resembling starting qb money?  Seems rather insulting, even for a journeyman.

I don't want to disparage Fitz too much, because I appreciate the hell out of what he did last season - but there's a reason why he's played for seven NFL teams and why QB needy teams paid Bradford and Osweiler big money, traded for Mark Sanchez and signed RGIII while Fitzpatrick is still out there,

He's a fiery leader and a gamer. He puts his body on the line in order to win a game. He's accurate. There's a lot to like. However he has the weakest arm in the league and for a Harvard guy he doesn't always make the "smart" decision. Last season he had multiple interceptions dropped and benefitted greatly from having two big/strong WRs that often bailed him out. While watching Brandon Marshall week in and week out last season I saw why the guy is a perennial 100 catch WR. He outmuscles and outfights every defensive back and makes some incredible grabs even when well covered. Decker is Marshall-lite in that regard as well.

It's just not a wise football decision to overpay mediocrity even at such an important position. There's no guarantee Fitz doesn't turn back into the journeyman he's always been next season (and not because he'll be fat and lazy).

We are also taking about a team that just doesn't have the cap space. The only way to make room at this point would be trading Muhammad Wilkerson and that would be an unwise move. I'm not a huge Geno fan at all, but perhaps he was humbled a bit by what happened last season and steps up. He's be surrounded by the best supporting cast he's been by far if he's under center this year - and he's 10x more physically gifted than Fitz. He's certainly a bonehead - but like I said Fitzpatrick isn't exactly a rocket scientist on the field either. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

You didn't answer the questions.  What makes you think this is Fitzpatrick's last contract?  I didn't cite Eli/Rivers/Ben to compare skill sets, I cited them because most people believe they all have plenty of years left in them and yet Fitzpatrick is younger than all of them.  Plenty of QB's are playing until their 40's.

What leads you to believe Fitzpatrick would get fat and happy with a new contract?  He's never done so in the past, not even when he got a then monster deal from Buffalo.  He's signed a multitude of backup deals and been ready and able each time when called on.  There's zero history of him getting lazy.

You ask me to answer your questions, but I've already elaborated on my prior post and fully explained my rationale for why I think the Jets should move on from Fitz: (1) He's a mediocre talent and the quintessential journeyman QB; (2) He is not worth the money he's asking; (3) The Jets can't afford to pay him $12 million or commit to him for a long term deal; (3) the Jets can and should commit to the QBs they've drafted.  It's a tough decision, as Fitz is probably the better option for right now due to his leadership and character, but I don't see anything in Fitz's career history that tells me that he can be anything more than a mediocre, short term answer for the team.

As to your second paragraph, Buffalo released him a year after signing him to his big deal so I fail to see how that qualifies as evidence of him stepping up his game after getting paid.  They went 6-10 AGAIN in 2012 and he barely completed 60% of his passes.  His yardage and completion percentage dropped, TDs stayed the same, and his INT's decreased.  He then began his journeyman odyssey until being reunited with Gailey in NY for a 6th round pick and a backup deal.  He only got the starting gig because Geno got punched out by a teammate, and by all accounts, Geno was having a great camp.  Show me evidence of Fitz putting a team on his back and leading them on a playoff run.  It doesn't exist - last year was his first winning season!

Plenty of QBs are playing into their 40s?  Name them.  They are all HOF QBs like Favre and Blanda or they were holding clipboards.  Is Matt Hasselback making starter money at 40?  Is Hass a franchise QB (at one time he arguably was, but that was when he was younger than Fitz and at least he took his team to the playoffs)?  Mark Brunell made it past 40 as a backup, but he too had a history of being a franchise QB who had playoff experience.  Do you really see a 40 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick leading the Jets on a deep playoff run?  I don't see it happening at 40 or 34, because it's never happened in his eleven year career!  The one chance he had to get there, he failed miserably when it mattered most.  He might have one, maybe two years to be a capable starting QB, but after that, he'll be lucky to hold a clipboard for a year or two.  How is that the answer to the Jets historically bad QB situation?  Finally, his market for starting QB money consists of one team.  That tells you all you need to know about how he is valued in NFL circles and I don't think that would be the case if Eli, Ben, of Rivers hit the market.     

 

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2 hours ago, Arodin said:

That structure locks Fitz in to three years at 8mil a year.

Does anyone view 8mil as even resembling starting qb money?  Seems rather insulting, even for a journeyman.

The problem is market sets the price.   There is no market for Fitz.   If he does not sign with the Jets he will not get more than the 4-5 backup type money with any other team.  Fitz has been a UFA for 5 months without any interest.  There has to be another team to drive up the price but so far there are no takers.

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Fitz will have to wait now until training camp if he wants any leverage. The Jets need him too. 

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2 minutes ago, Milkman said:

Fitz will have to wait now until training camp if he wants any leverage. The Jets need him too. 

Agree with this.  Fitz can also see if someone gets injured,  and perhaps see if the Jets get more desperate as training camp approaches. 

I think there is a very good chance he is over rating himself,  but I don't blame him for wanting starter money.  He's their starter. 

And there is no deadline yet. If Fitz waits till August,  and accepts the offer,  all will be forgiven.  Why sign a below market deal until you have to,  just because the Jets don't have room? 

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1 hour ago, Mookie said:

 

In other words you can't answer my questions. Gotcha. 

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

The problem is market sets the price.   There is no market for Fitz.   If he does not sign with the Jets he will not get more than the 4-5 backup type money with any other team.  Fitz has been a UFA for 5 months without any interest.  There has to be another team to drive up the price but so far there are no takers.

The Jets have a tremendous amount to lose - unless they are certain that Smith is going to break the franchise TD mark Fitz just set and put up 4000 yds.  They could easily lose the locker room and any good will playing hardball with a relatively very low number. 

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4 hours ago, Hankmoody said:

In other words you can't answer my questions. Gotcha. 

Seems he quite clearly answered your question above. Just because you don't care for his answer (apparently) doesn't negate it.

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Just now, DallasDMac said:

Seems he quite clearly answered your question above. Just because you don't care for his answer (apparently) doesn't negate it.

He didn't explain at all why he thought this would be Fitzpatrick's last contract nor why he thought Fitzpatrick would get fat and lazy.  He sidestepped them (and hooked you) by changing the topic to why he didn't want him back in NY or why he hasn't been a very good QB.  Those weren't his initial assertions that I called terrible. I wouldn't have argued much with those.

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Now the Jets are being ****s. They could easily give Fitz a backloaded mulltiyear contract with a solid signing bonus so that the cap hit is spread out over up to 3 years, knowing they'll likely cut him after June 1 next year and thus spreading the actual cap hit.  Capwise teams do this all the time with older vets and everyone knows what it is about - and the players see what they are doing to Fitz here. 

 

If NY goes into the season with some of their premium vets already unhappy about this situation and start losing with Geno under center the wheels could come off the cart very quickly. Stupid IMO given the way the Jets have built this team and how it is currently designed. 

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2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

Now the Jets are being ****s. They could easily give Fitz a backloaded mulltiyear contract with a solid signing bonus so that the cap hit is spread out over up to 3 years, knowing they'll likely cut him after June 1 next year and thus spreading the actual cap hit.  

This is in essence what they are already offering and Fitz is rejecting. They have offered him $15MM guaranteed. Throwing "fake" money on the end isn't going to placate him if he knows he's not going to see it.

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39 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

This is in essence what they are already offering and Fitz is rejecting. They have offered him $15MM guaranteed. Throwing "fake" money on the end isn't going to placate him if he knows he's not going to see it.

There is one big difference.  The Jets deal has very low salaries in year 2 and 3, according to reports.

By offering a deal with big, fake dollars later, Fitz would know he's getting cut, and could make a deal next year.

The Jets are trying to get themselves some cheap insurance/starter, or a well-paid backup for 2017/2018.  They want their cake and eat it too.  

If the Jets gave a 9 mill SB, and 2 mill base, on a 3 year deal (insert whatever silly numbers into later deals), they would have 6 mill in dead cap to either eat next year, or split up over two years.  That's not ideal, but that's the price they pay for not willing to deal Wilkerson, or extend him.  They lose a lot of flexibility.


FItz would be wise to wait until July 15.  Why NOT see if the Jets and Wilkerson come to an agreement?  

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8 minutes ago, massraider said:

There is one big difference.  The Jets deal has very low salaries in year 2 and 3, according to reports.

By offering a deal with big, fake dollars later, Fitz would know he's getting cut, and could make a deal next year.

The Jets are trying to get themselves some cheap insurance/starter, or a well-paid backup for 2017/2018.  They want their cake and eat it too.  

If the Jets gave a 9 mill SB, and 2 mill base, on a 3 year deal (insert whatever silly numbers into later deals), they would have 6 mill in dead cap to either eat next year, or split up over two years.  That's not ideal, but that's the price they pay for not willing to deal Wilkerson, or extend him.  They lose a lot of flexibility.


FItz would be wise to wait until July 15.  Why NOT see if the Jets and Wilkerson come to an agreement?  

True and a fair point - They could make Year 2 much more inflated so that he gets paid or their hand is forced.

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22 hours ago, Da Guru said:

The problem is market sets the price.   There is no market for Fitz.   

The problem is the market sets the price. There are no other starting caliber QB's for the Jets to sign.

The Jets took their $8mil and their entire draft to find a starting QB and they came up with..... Geno Smith?

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1 minute ago, BoltBacker said:

The problem is the market sets the price. There are no other starting caliber QB's for the Jets to sign.

The Jets took their $8mil and their entire draft to find a starting QB and they came up with..... Geno Smith?

They have Geno and they also drafted their future franchise QB this year.

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4 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

If NY goes into the season with some of their premium vets already unhappy about this situation and start losing with Geno under center the wheels could come off the cart very quickly. Stupid IMO given the way the Jets have built this team and how it is currently designed. 

What I don't understand is why the Jets seem willing to pay Revis $17mil, Wilkerson $15+mil, Marshall $9+mil, and Mangold $8+mil but won't budge from $8mil to give the team a chance to use those players in the playoffs. 

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Just now, Da Guru said:

They have Geno and they also drafted their future franchise QB this year.

The Jets have designs on winning now.  They have a defense, old RB, and old WR.  

They are playing hardball with Fitz, and I get why they are doing it.  He doesn't have a lot of options.  

Fitz is playing hardball as well, and he has outs, IMO.  There are ways he can come out of this looking good, I kind of hope he sticks to his guns.  

Because if the Jets start out 0-2 with Geno, it would be very exciting times to read NYC media.  

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3 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

They have Geno and they also drafted their future franchise QB this year.

Exactly.

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On 6/2/2016 at 9:10 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

It's just not a wise football decision to overpay mediocrity even at such an important position. There's no guarantee Fitz doesn't turn back into the journeyman he's always been next season (and not because he'll be fat and lazy).

We are also taking about a team that just doesn't have the cap space. The only way to make room at this point would be trading Muhammad Wilkerson and that would be an unwise move.

I don't think the bold part is true. They recognized that Wilkerson is a very talented player and has earned a huge contract and would have signed one had he been a FA. They chose to franchise him, which is their right. But they could have come to an agreement to pay Wilkerson a contract that would give them the cap space to pay Fitz like a starting QB. Problem is, they don't seem to have interest paying Wilkerson either.

They have no cap space because of the cap decisions they have made and continue to make. If the Jets aren't willing to give Wilkerson the long term deal that both the player and team(otherwise they wouldn't have franchised him) think he has earned I don't understand why Fitz should accept a salary lower than what the market has set for journeyman quarterbacks.

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On 6/2/2016 at 8:43 AM, FF Ninja said:

I'm guessing they don't really want him to be starting in 2017, so that would be really, really good backup money.

Yet they seem to want to control his future for the next three years. Why on earth would anyone that just proved he is playing like a starting level QB agree to payed like a backup level QB moving forward?

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On 6/2/2016 at 8:14 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

The Jets don't have $12MM in cap space so need the hit to be spread out over the three years which is why they offered him the three year deal with far lesser money in years 2 and 3. Both sides are being disingenuous every step of the way, but imo the Jets are on the more realistic side of the negotiation process and have the stronger argument.

Well, if this was true they could simply let Fitz have a player opt-out after the first year of the deal. Fitz has already said he would play for $12mil for the first year so wouldn't he have already signed that contract if NY wasn't trying to control Fitz for the next three years?

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On 6/2/2016 at 6:27 AM, TLEF316 said:

It's not a matter of lying. The jets physically can't sign a 1 year ,12 million dollar deal. They don't have the cap space. And as far as I know, they've already done all the obvious space saving moves they had this winter.

Well, supposedly the reason they were offering $8mil. Then they were asking Ferguson for a big paycut so they could sign Fitz. Instead, they end up chasing Ferguson into retirement. Ferguson was scheduled to make $14mil, so now they are paying him $5mil in dead money. They "replace" Ferguson with Clady for $6mil. So before this exercise in musical chairs they were offering $8mil and asking for space to sign Fitz. So what is the offer after they freed up $3mil????? Then the offer was "upped" to $24mil/3yr..... ???? Seems like a matter of lying to me.

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9 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

Well, supposedly the reason they were offering $8mil. Then they were asking Ferguson for a big paycut so they could sign Fitz. Instead, they end up chasing Ferguson into retirement. Ferguson was scheduled to make $14mil, so now they are paying him $5mil in dead money. They "replace" Ferguson with Clady for $6mil. So before this exercise in musical chairs they were offering $8mil and asking for space to sign Fitz. So what is the offer after they freed up $3mil????? Then the offer was "upped" to $24mil/3yr..... ???? Seems like a matter of lying to me.

Huh.. that's an old NY Media narrative..... Ferguson was done with the game and wanted to retire - simple as that.

Play on. 

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If you want to offer him 12 mil for yr 1 then give him the 1 yr deal. They want a 3 year deal with 2 "play for free" years tacked on. I wouldn't sign that either, except for the fact that I haven't made millions in the nfl already. Seems like a risky "bet your job on it" kind of move for the front office. Of they roll with geno and lose they look really bad. If they win they look like geniuses. Sign fitz and lose it's his fault.

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9 minutes ago, Reaper said:

Huh.. that's an old NY Media narrative..... Ferguson was done with the game and wanted to retire - simple as that.

Play on. 

You think it's a coincidence that he decided to retire in the spring when they were asking him to take a substantial pay-cut?

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4 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:

If you want to offer him 12 mil for yr 1 then give him the 1 yr deal. They want a 3 year deal with 2 "play for free" years tacked on. I wouldn't sign that either, except for the fact that I haven't made millions in the nfl already. Seems like a risky "bet your job on it" kind of move for the front office. Of they roll with geno and lose they look really bad. If they win they look like geniuses. Sign fitz and lose it's his fault.

I am a little surprised by the position the front office is taking as well, no matter what local poll's show.

If they go with Geno/Hack/Petty against....

CIN

at BUF

at KC

SEA

at PIT

at ARZ

.... is Geno even going to make it out of the first month? If he doesn't are you going to throw Hack to the wolves after a whole lot of folks thought you reached for him in the 2nd round? Is Petty reading defenses well enough to play on the "pro" level of Madden yet? I actually don't dislike Hack that much but I think you aren't putting him in a very good situation to succeed by starting him that early. People that think Geno can just game manage the Jets through that first part of their schedule are kidding themselves, imo.

I think the people that think Fitz is the one that has backed himself into a corner are missing the bigger picture. If NY knocks itself out of playoff contention before the half way point and Hack is forced onto the field too early I don't see how the GM keeps his job with back to back blunders at the QB position..... but I never would have thought there was a way Telesco would get an extension after doing such a great job packaging picks to move up to take Melvin Gordon so maybe these guys aren't held accountable for as much as they should be. 

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43 minutes ago, BoltBacker said:

You think it's a coincidence that he decided to retire in the spring when they were asking him to take a substantial pay-cut?

 

It was never a secret.... Even this time last year ppl knew his 14 mill plus contract this year was going to be something to discuss Vs his declining play...

"I really feel that when I came in this league, I wanted to be the best that I could be. I wanted to go against the best and defend the best. And when I could no longer do that, I wanted to kind of step away and be happy with the things that I accomplished."

 

The 32-year-old Ferguson began contemplating retirement after last season, when he realized it was becoming more difficult to play at the high standard he set for himself. 

 

 

Edited by Reaper

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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:

I am a little surprised by the position the front office is taking as well, no matter what local poll's show.

If they go with Geno/Hack/Petty against....

CIN

at BUF

at KC

SEA

at PIT

at ARZ

.... is Geno even going to make it out of the first month? If he doesn't are you going to throw Hack to the wolves after a whole lot of folks thought you reached for him in the 2nd round? Is Petty reading defenses well enough to play on the "pro" level of Madden yet? I actually don't dislike Hack that much but I think you aren't putting him in a very good situation to succeed by starting him that early. People that think Geno can just game manage the Jets through that first part of their schedule are kidding themselves, imo.

I think the people that think Fitz is the one that has backed himself into a corner are missing the bigger picture. If NY knocks itself out of playoff contention before the half way point and Hack is forced onto the field too early I don't see how the GM keeps his job with back to back blunders at the QB position..... but I never would have thought there was a way Telesco would get an extension after doing such a great job packaging picks to move up to take Melvin Gordon so maybe these guys aren't held accountable for as much as they should be. 

 

And if they give Fitz 12 million and he becomes Fitz....  That truly sucks.

Fitz last year beat 1 team that was a contender... And talk was the Pats were kinda prepping for the playoffs by then - It was a pretty weird game for them - never saw BB fold the tent before half like that...

. He didn't face any defenses like those above and he still was meh... (BUF of course but, they smashed him)

 

Also - As for Fitz backing himself into a corner - IF the Jets, Wise, foolish or whatever move on - Fitz' career may be DONE.. He might go hold a clipboard for cheap somewhere, never get a shot again or get a shot in a system not the one he had success in and look like the rest of his 10 plus years of mediocrity....

As for Hack - Hey, I'm a huge fan of reading and looking at QB development - I'm a huge fan of letting project sit.. BUT, it depends on the circumstances and the way the QB grabs the reign.. If Hack comes in like Russel Wilson, lights it up - or shows some promise, I'd consider him a backup and open to play in emergency mid season - after that murderers row of games Maybe in CLE... 

Hey Geno went 8-8 in a total crap system, not the Gailey QB system, with ZERO Wr's - only Kerley (his #1) is even still in the game.

So, there is literally Zero fear that Hack will ever face the pile of BS and crap that Geno gets judged against. AND he played in a Pro Offense before... 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Reaper
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1 hour ago, BoltBacker said:
On 6/2/2016 at 0:10 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

It's just not a wise football decision to overpay mediocrity even at such an important position. There's no guarantee Fitz doesn't turn back into the journeyman he's always been next season (and not because he'll be fat and lazy).

We are also taking about a team that just doesn't have the cap space. The only way to make room at this point would be trading Muhammad Wilkerson and that would be an unwise move.

I don't think the bold part is true.

It's not the only way.  They could cut Revis a check for $15M, spread that out over three years, and free up $10M right now.  They could also sign Wilkerson to a long-term deal and structure the cap hits to be minimal in 2016 and larger in future years.  They have a few other guys with contracts they could restructure but they all result in the same thing - pushing cap money from this year into next to sign Fitzpatrick. 

The issue is the Jets are insisting that he stick around for two more years at potentially way less money he could get elsewhere just so they can spread out the cap hit.  You didn't see anyone offer Osweiler $18M this year and $9M each of the next two years.  No one does that.  It's ridiculous the Jets think Fitzpatrick would do that.  He can just wait until week 3 when Romo snaps in half and Jerruh will open his checkbook then. 

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Bunch of articles or how they can get the money to sign Fitz if they want - I don't think it's that big a deal - and the 1st place I'd go is Marshall and Decker if they want him that badly...

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/60367/how-the-jets-can-create-cap-space-for-ryan-fitzpatrick-if-he-returns

 

This much we know: They'll have to create some cap space to sign him, regardless of the structure. They can restructure a couple of contracts, starting with Buster Skrine. His $6.5 million salary already is guaranteed, which makes it easier to re-work the deal. If they drop his base to $760,000 and give him the rest in a signing bonus, they'd lower his cap charge from $7.75 million to $3.9 million -- a $3.85 million savings. They did pretty much the same thing withJames Carpenter in March.

Eric Decker is due to make a non-guaranteed $6.5 million, so they also can save $3.85 million with a simple restructuring. It would reduce his cap charge from $8 million to $4.15 million. Between Decker and Skrine, you're talking about close to $8 million in additional cap space.

They could go to Brandon Marshall (a max $4.3 million cap savings), but you're always reluctant to approach players over 30 because there's a good chance they will be released before their contract expires. And you know what that means: The team's cap gets hammered with the money it pushed to the back end of the contract by restructuring. The same theory applies to Darrelle Revis, who has a team-high $17 million cap charge. In Marshall's case, it would be somewhat palatable because there's no pro-rated signing bonus counting on the cap; it's just base salary.

Another way to add cap room would be to sign Muhammad Wilkerson to a long-term contract by the July 15 deadline, but that appears unlikely. Barring a deal, the Jets will carry Wilkerson's $15.7 million franchise tender into the season. That's not good cap management, but there are other issues involved with a potential Wilkerson deal.

Getting back to your question, Joel:

The Jets can easily create cap space for Fitzpatrick; that's the least of their worries. The bigger problem is agreeing on a contract.

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2 hours ago, BoltBacker said:

 

I think the people that think Fitz is the one that has backed himself into a corner are missing the bigger picture. If NY knocks itself out of playoff contention before the half way point and Hack is forced onto the field too early I don't see how the GM keeps his job with back to back blunders at the QB position..... but I never would have thought there was a way Telesco would get an extension after doing such a great job packaging picks to move up to take Melvin Gordon so maybe these guys aren't held accountable for as much as they should be. 

 

 

Who was the first of the  "back to back blunders" at the QB position in this scenario?  If you're referring to Geno, he wasn't even drafted by the current regime. 

If you're referring to Bryce Petty, that's even more silly. He was a 4th round project from a gimmicky college offense. A total project lottery ticket who hasn't even seen the field yet (and in the scenario you outlined above, won't ever see the field).

Hell, Fitz wasn't even going to start until Geno got his face broken last year.

Maccagnan is going to get some major rope as the Jets GM. He inherited a terrible situation from a talent standpoint and the Jets aren't going to want to pull the trigger quickly again after the Idzik fiasco. You don't want to be known as the franchise that only gives GM's 2 years.

Yes, in some respects, he has sort of tied his fate to Hackenberg. Like Geno, he was a 2nd rounder. However, many saw Geno as a value pick, given that a few months earlier, many were talking about him going number 1. (obviously this was proven wrong, but it was all over the place for months, especially after his great start to his senior year). Nobody was talking about Hack as a 2. It was seen as a reach. So if he busts, that's on Mac and his staff.

I feel like the people who aren't Jets fans have absolutely no perspective here. They see Fitz's stats from last year and think "well, the Jets are a playoff team with him and garbage without him so they HAVE TO sign him". Its simply not true. The Jets played a horrible schedule last year (due to their finish in 2014 and the luck of the draw from the other divisions the AFC played against) and got very productive years from players who are either A) not here anymore or B) one more year on the wrong side of 30 and likely to regress. This year, the Jets play a much tougher schedule. They lost some very key free agents and even if they sign Fitz, the odds of him (and Marshall) repeating last year's performances are very low. In reality, even with Fitzpatrick, this is probably a 9 win team at best.

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1 hour ago, TLEF316 said:

They lost some very key free agents and even if they sign Fitz, the odds of him (and Marshall) repeating last year's performances are very low. In reality, even with Fitzpatrick, this is probably a 9 win team at best.

I think this is the strongest argument Jets fans have.

If you think, "Well we saw Fitz at his best and even then he wasn't able to take us to the playoffs" then I can understand simply wanting to move on. If this is a team building for 2017/2018 then it makes all the sense in the world for NY to move on. But it's not really what they seem to be saying. Or doing if you read into the Forte/Wilkerson decisions. Those moves seem like win-now moves.

The way I am hearing it is, "Fitz you just aren't that good... but if you sign this deal you'll start ahead of the rest of these clowns! Oh, and we want you under contract for three years." That's what makes me wonder how confident they are Hack/Petty are close to contributing. Oh, and Geno will get released before the ink even dries..... or he'll be our starter if we can't get the guy we don't even view as a true starter to settle for less money. How can you be a team leader under those conditions..... "plan z"?

If you expect a slide in 2016, when do you expect the uptick? Forte will be 31 at the end of the season. Marshall is 32 now. Decker is one of their "young" guys at 29. Mangold is 32. Clady will be 30(a very OLD 30 averaging 6gm/season the past three years). Giacomini will be 31 by the end of the season. On defense Revis will be 31 before the season starts. The TE's are just a mess, and you have to cross your fingers and hope we get to see Devin Smith actually healthy at some point. Wilkerson is actually a young star.... but they don't want to pay him either and he looks like a one year rental on the franchise tag. If they are a team that has missed some sort of window wouldn't they want to lock up their young star DLman before the salary cap goes up AGAIN?

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They have no window.  I didn't understand the Forte signing other than the fact that they needed SOMEONE to carry the ball. 

 

Like every other franchise without a qb, they're in limbo until they get one

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On 6/3/2016 at 0:12 PM, BoltBacker said:

Yet they seem to want to control his future for the next three years. Why on earth would anyone that just proved he is playing like a starting level QB agree to payed like a backup level QB moving forward?

You mean "paid"? Anyway, I think there are several reasons, but first, $8M/year is more than backup money. Second, a solid reason would be that backup QBs don't have to worry about their quality of life in 20 years. Third, that contract might represent the most money he could make in the next 3 years. If he takes a 1 year contract this year and then nobody wants to sign him as a starter next year then he's probably looking at $5M/year as a pure backup.

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On ‎6‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 2:33 PM, Hankmoody said:

He can just wait until week 3 when Romo snaps in half and Jerruh will open his checkbook then. 

So he should turn down $15MM now, hoping for a Romo injury in Week 3? How will Jerruh "open his checkbook" to pay Fitz big money, when by then the Cowboys would likely be right up against the cap? I doubt they are holding $15MM in reserve in case Romo gets hurt.

I think eventually both sides give in a bit - but (maybe I'm just trying to convince myself) I'm starting to think that a superior physical QB like Geno just may be able to step into a great situation and look just as good as Fitz. Like I said while Geno was a bonehead, he's still young, and its not like Fitz doesn't turn the ball over.  

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

So he should turn down $15MM now, hoping for a Romo injury in Week 3? How will Jerruh "open his checkbook" to pay Fitz big money, when by then the Cowboys would likely be right up against the cap? I doubt they are holding $15MM in reserve in case Romo gets hurt.

I think eventually both sides give in a bit - but (maybe I'm just trying to convince myself) I'm starting to think that a superior physical QB like Geno just may be able to step into a great situation and look just as good as Fitz. Like I said while Geno was a bonehead, he's still young, and its not like Fitz doesn't turn the ball over.  

I didn't say should, I said can.  Clearly this isn't about the "now" money but about the two following years he gets locked into lower salaries.  The Cowboys have $7M in cap space right now and could easily clear a few more million.  If it came down to it I'm sure he'd give up a few bucks this year and bet on himself getting another starting job next year - they all do.

42 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

You mean "paid"? Anyway, I think there are several reasons, but first, $8M/year is more than backup money. Second, a solid reason would be that backup QBs don't have to worry about their quality of life in 20 years. Third, that contract might represent the most money he could make in the next 3 years. If he takes a 1 year contract this year and then nobody wants to sign him as a starter next year then he's probably looking at $5M/year as a pure backup.

Picking on grammar is trite.  Shouldn't surprise me from you though.

re: the bolded - that's exactly Fitzpatrick's point.  Why should he sign a 3 year deal with the last two at $6M?  What's the benefit over the worst case?  $1M a year?  Versus maybe playing well enough to get some other team to give him $12M to be a one year bridge again when they draft DeShaun Watson?  That's a terrible deal for him.

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