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I recall recently seeing belichick's winning percentage by month but cannot seem to find it now and am too lazy to calculate it myself. I recall being incredibly impressed that his teams get consistently better month by month. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

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I recall recently seeing belichick's winning percentage by month but cannot seem to find it now and am too lazy to calculate it myself. I recall being incredibly impressed that his teams get consistently better month by month. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

oh yeah, I don't have it handy, but belichick teams have generally improved over the course of the season.

I think, going back to 2010, pats are something like 32-3 in games over the second half of the year.

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Makes sense, the further you get into the season, the more tape there is to work off of and Belichick's greatest strength might be his superior gameplanning ability.

(In before "well yeah, the further you get into the season the more signals have been taped)

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My recollection was that it looked something like:

Sept: .600

Oct: .663

Nov: .725

Dec: .800

Jan ( reg season): .850

Anyway, I am sure the above numbers are completely wrong but the trend was very clear and very very impressive

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On Sunday, current and former Dolphins safety Don Jones faces the team with which he spent much of 2014. And Jones learned a lot while playing for Bill Belichick and the Patriots.

Much of the learning came in advance of weekly Wednesday quizzes about the upcoming foe.

“Belichick would say, I have [expletive] questions for you on Wednesday, and I want [expletive] answers!” Jones said, via Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald.

“He would say, ‘Don, who is the starting right guard of the team we’re playing this week? What college did he go to? Who is their special teams coordinator?’ Before we played Denver, he said, ‘Who is the linebacker who filled in for the one who was injured?’ . . . They make sure players are prepared for everything. Bill is good to play for. There’s no rah-rah. He just tells you what to do, very straightforward.”

But Jones said that Belichick didn’t ask the former Dolphin anything about Miami before their first meeting in September, and that the Dolphins haven’t asked Jones anything about the Patriots.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article4456121.html

Edited by Kool-Aid Larry

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DIdnt we talk about how they were all done last year for a while?

Even if they manage to win their terrible division, so what? The other teams in the playoffs would literally have to not show up for them to advance.

Seeyah in December.

:bye:

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DIdnt we talk about how they were all done last year for a while?

Even if they manage to win their terrible division, so what? The other teams in the playoffs would literally have to not show up for them to advance.

Seeyah in December.

:bye:

Seeyah in January.

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DIdnt we talk about how they were all done last year for a while?

Even if they manage to win their terrible division, so what? The other teams in the playoffs would literally have to not show up for them to advance.

Seeyah in December.

:bye:

Seeyah in January.

Superbowl is in February :scared:

Edited by Run It Up

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Pats have never lost a 2nd game against Buffalo since Brady pre or post spygate.

Pats were 3-3 v Miami in the 2nd game pre spygate and 6-2 post spygate.

Pats were 4-2 v Jets in the 2nd game pre spygate and they are 5-2 post spygate.

So you're wrong.

Pre spygate 13-5

Post spygate 17-4

If you're talking playoffs then that happens when you start 10-0 or whatever it was.

They used to show the incredible record that Belichick had in a rematch.....now, not so much.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

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Guest General Tso

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

stole it from alabama

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

Harbaugh comes off as a butt hurt cry baby.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

I don't know the specific details in the rule book but I suppose it only deals with "ineligible receiver downfield" and obviously not "ineligible receiver behind the line" BUT - this video clip shows 6 men running pass routes. Five go out past the line, Vereen drops back with his hands raised as if to prepare for a screen. In fact - if you look at Vereen and compare him to LeFell at the top of the video clip I would say Vereen looks to be running more of a pass play than LeFell who hardly moves while stepping over the line. That is bush-league at best.

You can say all you want about Belichik playing chess when the other teams are playing checkers but the bottom line is HE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING CHESS!! Try this at home: stick to the rules of checkers against a guy who thinks his piece can kill with straight moves or somehow skip over pieces one way and still make a kill. I can pretty much guarantee you that you would not be calling him a genius. And I'll bet you'll love it when the people watching call you a whiny tool for complaining about it after the official gives him the win.

No. Nothing genius about it really. In the end Belichick will never be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time because of this junk that he pulls. It puts him in a league much different than the truly great coaches.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

To me it looks like 41? 43? Was on Hooman and tried to jump Amendola's route. Had Brady gone there he was in the end zone without a Pat touching him.

Plus as far as I remember the refs were pointing at Hooman before the play although the clip isn't long enough to show it. From that clip Baltimore seems to have the players covered right. There's a LB (Mosley) kind of near Vereen, but he might be doubling Gronk too. It's sort of hard to tell who he's paying attention to.

Edited by Niles Standish

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

I don't know the specific details in the rule book but I suppose it only deals with "ineligible receiver downfield" and obviously not "ineligible receiver behind the line" BUT - this video clip shows 6 men running pass routes. Five go out past the line, Vereen drops back with his hands raised as if to prepare for a screen. In fact - if you look at Vereen and compare him to LeFell at the top of the video clip I would say Vereen looks to be running more of a pass play than LeFell who hardly moves while stepping over the line. That is bush-league at best.

You can say all you want about Belichik playing chess when the other teams are playing checkers but the bottom line is HE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING CHESS!! Try this at home: stick to the rules of checkers against a guy who thinks his piece can kill with straight moves or somehow skip over pieces one way and still make a kill. I can pretty much guarantee you that you would not be calling him a genius. And I'll bet you'll love it when the people watching call you a whiny tool for complaining about it after the official gives him the win.

No. Nothing genius about it really. In the end Belichick will never be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time because of this junk that he pulls. It puts him in a league much different than the truly great coaches.

:lmao: :lmao:

does every pats thread have to fill up with trolls?

stay classy, shark pool -- this must be bryant's idea of excellent

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I heard Friday from a guy at work that Don Shula recently called him Belicheat. Anyone else hear this?

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as “Beli-cheat.” The story created plenty of buzz — and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.

On Friday’s edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shula’s remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.

“I just think it’s flat-out disrespectful,” Harrison said. “I always have respect for Don Shula. I don’t think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that he’s the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what he’s done, what he’s been able to accomplish. But it’s one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you don’t come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think it’s flat-out disrespectful.”

Shula’s comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponent’s defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shula’s coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

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The referees blew it by not allowing time for the Ravens to react. The Patriots obviously set the play up knowing that the referees would make that mistake.

It's not like the cheating in the past. They were simply playing the refs for fools (which isn't that hard these days).

Edited by jonessed

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.

On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.

I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.

Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

I don't know the specific details in the rule book but I suppose it only deals with "ineligible receiver downfield" and obviously not "ineligible receiver behind the line" BUT - this video clip shows 6 men running pass routes. Five go out past the line, Vereen drops back with his hands raised as if to prepare for a screen. In fact - if you look at Vereen and compare him to LeFell at the top of the video clip I would say Vereen looks to be running more of a pass play than LeFell who hardly moves while stepping over the line. That is bush-league at best.

You can say all you want about Belichik playing chess when the other teams are playing checkers but the bottom line is HE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING CHESS!! Try this at home: stick to the rules of checkers against a guy who thinks his piece can kill with straight moves or somehow skip over pieces one way and still make a kill. I can pretty much guarantee you that you would not be calling him a genius. And I'll bet you'll love it when the people watching call you a whiny tool for complaining about it after the official gives him the win.

No. Nothing genius about it really. In the end Belichick will never be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time because of this junk that he pulls. It puts him in a league much different than the truly great coaches.

:lmao: :lmao:

does every pats thread have to fill up with trolls?

stay classy, shark pool -- this must be bryant's idea of excellent

Trolling? Ha! Feeling a little defensive Larry?

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.

On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.

I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.

Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.

Ummm, hardly.

You don't like Rodney, how about Bill Cowher

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it.

The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams.

We didn’t lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things,” Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “[if] they’re guilty of anything they’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

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I've said it before and I'll say it again - Bill Belichick plays chess while the rest of the league plays checkers.

link

Belichick consistently finds new wrinkles, often pushing the boundaries of legal/illegal. I wish Fox was clever enough to come up with something like this.

What am I missing about this one? How is running a play like this on the boundaries of illegal play? What is Harbaugh whining about? I don't get it at all.

it's not clear who will be out running routes. Only 5 men can run routes - by formation, looking at it from the defenses point of view, it appeared that Vereen would be in the pattern, and so the defense was concerned about covering him. Likewise, Hoomanawanui was lined up where a tackle normally plays, but as he was the last man on the line, he technically was eligible. There is nothing inherently illegal with this formation.

What Harbaugh is complaining about is Vereen must declare to the refs that he's ineligible. He did that, and then NE quick-snapped the ball before the refs could communicate Vereens ineligibility to the defense.

Here's how the play went down. You can see Hoomanawanui was completely uncovered as the defense hadn't sorted things out and recognized he was eligible.

I don't know the specific details in the rule book but I suppose it only deals with "ineligible receiver downfield" and obviously not "ineligible receiver behind the line" BUT - this video clip shows 6 men running pass routes. Five go out past the line, Vereen drops back with his hands raised as if to prepare for a screen. In fact - if you look at Vereen and compare him to LeFell at the top of the video clip I would say Vereen looks to be running more of a pass play than LeFell who hardly moves while stepping over the line. That is bush-league at best.

You can say all you want about Belichik playing chess when the other teams are playing checkers but the bottom line is HE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING CHESS!! Try this at home: stick to the rules of checkers against a guy who thinks his piece can kill with straight moves or somehow skip over pieces one way and still make a kill. I can pretty much guarantee you that you would not be calling him a genius. And I'll bet you'll love it when the people watching call you a whiny tool for complaining about it after the official gives him the win.

No. Nothing genius about it really. In the end Belichick will never be considered one of the greatest coaches of all time because of this junk that he pulls. It puts him in a league much different than the truly great coaches.

:lmao: :lmao:

does every pats thread have to fill up with trolls?

stay classy, shark pool -- this must be bryant's idea of excellent

Trolling? Ha! Feeling a little defensive Larry?

Thats rich coming from the biggest troll on the board

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.

On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.

I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.

Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.

Ummm, hardly.

You don't like Rodney, how about Bill Cowher

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it.

The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams.

We didnt lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things, Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. [if] theyre guilty of anything theyre guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

I agree with Cower that the addition of the camera made what the Patriots were doing more serious. I also agree that it isn't why the Steelers lost.

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The referees blew it by not allowing time for the Ravens to react. The Patriots obviously set the play up knowing that the referees would make that mistake.

It's not like the cheating in the past. They were simply playing the refs for fools (which isn't that hard these days).

How much time should they give them? 15 Mississippi? Until Harbaugh says it's OK?

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The referees blew it by not allowing time for the Ravens to react. The Patriots obviously set the play up knowing that the referees would make that mistake.

It's not like the cheating in the past. They were simply playing the refs for fools (which isn't that hard these days).

How much time should they give them? 15 Mississippi? Until Harbaugh says it's OK?

In this case the Ravens weren't notified at all so more than zero seconds would have sufficed.

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They announced it over the PA before the snap, you can hear it in the broadcast, either way the refs were terrible for the majority of the game, this was by far their least egregious short coming.

The Pats ran this type of play three times in that game, the one Harbaww was upset about being the third time.

Edited by Run It Up

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They announced it over the PA before the snap, you can hear it in the broadcast, either way the refs were terrible for the majority of the game, this was by far their least egregious short coming.

this

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The referees blew it by not allowing time for the Ravens to react. The Patriots obviously set the play up knowing that the referees would make that mistake.

It's not like the cheating in the past. They were simply playing the refs for fools (which isn't that hard these days).

How much time should they give them? 15 Mississippi? Until Harbaugh says it's OK?

In this case the Ravens weren't notified at all so more than zero seconds would have sufficed.

They were notified on every play, announced by the ref over the stadium loudspeaker on all three plays with that formation.

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I don't like the Pats at all. But you can not negate what Bellicheck does and how he does it. He pushes the envelope and finds ways to make his team win (in many cases when they probably shouldn't). Pretty much exactly what everyone would want out of their coach even if you hate him as your opponents coach.

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.

Ummm, hardly.

You don't like Rodney, how about Bill Cowher

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it. The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams. We didnt lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things, Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. [if] theyre guilty of anything theyre guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

I agree with Cower that the addition of the camera made what the Patriots were doing more serious. I also agree that it isn't why the Steelers lost.

I hope it's not the reason the Steelers lost since Cowher says in the same article that Pitt had people stealing signals that season too.

Wasn't the whole taping practice legal until 2006 anyway? I thought the old rules pre-memo didn't forbid the type of taping the Patriots were doing. Or at least the league thought it was unclear enough to specifically update the language in 2006.

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They announced it over the PA before the snap, you can hear it in the broadcast, either way the refs were terrible for the majority of the game, this was by far their least egregious short coming.

The referee actually announced the wrong number.

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League will review whether Ravens got proper notice of ineligible player

Mike Florio

It’s common for players with numbers that make them ineligible to report as eligible and then go down the field and become targets for passes. It’s less common for players with eligible numbers to report to officials as ineligible and then refrain from going down the field of play.

On Saturday night, the Patriots took advantage of the “B” side of the rule that made former Patriots linebacker Mike Vrabel a periodic tight end. Per a league source, the NFL will now explore whether the officiating crew gave the Ravens proper notice that an eligible Patriots player would be ineligible for a given play.

Running back Shane Vereen, wearing the eligible number 34, lined up split wide from the nearest offensive lineman, but because Vereen was “covered up” by another eligible receiver (i.e., an eligible receiver lined up on the line of scrimmage between Vereen and the sideline), it remained a legal formation. Vereen was, in essence, an offensive tackle with a very wide split from next lineman.

On the other side of the line, tight end Michael Hoomanawanui was on the line of scrimmage tight to the next offensive lineman. But Hoomanawanui remained an eligible receiver with an eligible number.

Vereen was required to report as an ineligible receiver, and he did. Hoomanawanui was not required to do anything.

The confusion apparently came from the configuration of the offensive line and the presence of a slot receiver (lined up behind the line of scrimmage) between Vereen and the next offensive lineman. Although Vereen technically was the right tackle in a five-man offensive line, the center shifted one spot to the right, putting a pair of guards between the center and Vereen. Which created the impression that Vereen was eligible. To the left of the center, there was a guard (who was actually the left tackle) and Hoomanawanui, who appeared to be the left tackle but was actually an eligible tight end.

The Ravens would have (or should have) known that an eligible receiver had reported as ineligible, but the alignment of players suggested that Hoomanawanui and not Vereen was the ineligible receiver.

The Patriots furthered the ruse by having Vereen behave like a potential receiver. At the snap, he back off the line and raised his hands for a screen pass. On the other side of the line, Hoomanawanui took off for a pass from what appeared to be the left tackle position.

Is it deceptive, as Ravens coach John Harbaugh alleged? Sure it is. But so is a play-action pass, a draw play, a flea flicker, a statue of liberty, a lateral pass to a receiver who throws the ball to another receiver, the zone blitz, the fake blitz, the delayed blitz, every pre-snap look aimed at making the opponent think the play is something other than what it will be, a fake punt, a fake field goals, a surprise onside kick from conventional kick formation, and a punt returner pretending the ball is coming to him when it’s actually going to a guy left alone on the other side of the field.

The Vereen-ineligible play is legal, as long as the otherwise eligible player reports as ineligible. Which Vereen did. The question then becomes whether the referee properly informed the Ravens about Vereen’s ineligibility. Which the league will explore.

Even if the referee did what he was supposed to do, the formation and the execution suggested that the referee may have gotten the number wrong, saying 34 when he meant to say 47. Which further underscores the brilliance of the play.

Maybe Rodney Harrison was right. Maybe Bill Belichick really is the greatest coach of all time. After all, Belichick managed to confuse and confound a guy who is destined to end up pretty high on the list of best coaches ever.

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.

Ummm, hardly.

You don't like Rodney, how about Bill Cowher

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it. The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams. We didnt lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things, Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. [if] theyre guilty of anything theyre guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

I agree with Cower that the addition of the camera made what the Patriots were doing more serious. I also agree that it isn't why the Steelers lost.
I hope it's not the reason the Steelers lost since Cowher says in the same article that Pitt had people stealing signals that season too.

Wasn't the whole taping practice legal until 2006 anyway? I thought the old rules pre-memo didn't forbid the type of taping the Patriots were doing. Or at least the league thought it was unclear enough to specifically update the language in 2006.

Stealing signals was common. Videotaping them was not (and they were asked to stop it). That's why the Patriots were punished as harshly as they were. For cheating (or knowingly breaking the rules if you feel more comfortable with that).

None of this relates in any way to what happened yesterday. It wasn't cheating.

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They announced it over the PA before the snap, you can hear it in the broadcast, either way the refs were terrible for the majority of the game, this was by far their least egregious short coming.

The referee actually announced the wrong number.

You sure, I'm pretty sure I heard them say #34 is ineligible.

Or are you saying they didn't announce Hoomanawanui as eligible?

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Yes, Shula is and always has been a pompous ###.

Recently, legendary NFL coach Don Shula referred to Patriots coach Bill Belichick as Beli-cheat. The story created plenty of buzz and generated a large stack of approved (and deleted) comments from PFT Planet.On Fridays edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, former Patriots safety Rodney Harrison defended Belichick against Shulas remark, and also gave Belichick high praise.I just think its flat-out disrespectful, Harrison said. I always have respect for Don Shula. I dont think that Bill Belichick deserves that. People make mistakes and do things, but Bill Belichick has proven that hes the greatest coach of all time. You can look at the last decade of what hes done, what hes been able to accomplish. But its one of those things where as a coach, another well-respected coach, you dont come out and say those things like that about another coach. I think its flat-out disrespectful.Shulas comments, rooted in the lingering fumes of Spygate, overstate the value of the infraction (videotaping the opponents defensive coaching signals) and overlook the reality that plenty of mild-to-moderate (and worse) cheating occurred throughout the sport before, during, and after Shulas coaching tenure. The bigger question is whether Harrison accurately pegs Belichick as the greatest coach of all time. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/10/rodney-harrison-reacts-to-shulas-use-of-beli-cheat/

When you have to resort to quoting Rodney Harrison to protect your integrity you have already lost.
Ummm, hardly.

You don't like Rodney, how about Bill Cowher

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it. The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams. We didnt lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things, Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. [if] theyre guilty of anything theyre guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate

I agree with Cower that the addition of the camera made what the Patriots were doing more serious. I also agree that it isn't why the Steelers lost.
I hope it's not the reason the Steelers lost since Cowher says in the same article that Pitt had people stealing signals that season too.

Wasn't the whole taping practice legal until 2006 anyway? I thought the old rules pre-memo didn't forbid the type of taping the Patriots were doing. Or at least the league thought it was unclear enough to specifically update the language in 2006.

Stealing signals was common. Videotaping them was not (and they were asked to stop it). That's why the Patriots were punished as harshly as they were. For cheating (or knowingly breaking the rules if you feel more comfortable with that).

None of this relates in any way to what happened yesterday. It wasn't cheating.

Right, but the rule was changed or at least clarified in 2006. So it's kind of hard to argue what they were doing was cheating prior to 2006. Since the language didn't forbid what they were doing. That's all I mean. In 2006 and the first game of 2007 what they did was clearly against the rules.

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They announced it over the PA before the snap, you can hear it in the broadcast, either way the refs were terrible for the majority of the game, this was by far their least egregious short coming.

The referee actually announced the wrong number.

You sure, I'm pretty sure I heard them say #34 is ineligible.

Or are you saying they didn't announce Hoomanawanui as eligible?

Even if it is the case, hardly the Patriots' fault or problem.

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Or are you saying they didn't announce Hoomanawanui as eligible?

why would they announce that a normally eligible receiver (with an eligible uniform number) who is lined up as an eligible receiver is eligible? that's completely unnecessary.

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Or are you saying they didn't announce Hoomanawanui as eligible?

why would they announce that a normally eligible receiver (with an eligible uniform number) who is lined up as an eligible receiver is eligible? that's completely unnecessary.

Thats why I asked, because when I was watching the game I'm pretty confident I heard "34 is ineligible, (a couple things I couldn't hear)"

Wouldn't be shocked at all to hear they announced both causing confusion, but I would be surprised to find out I didn't actually hear them call Vereens number.

Edited by Run It Up

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What funny is that the Pats ran that type of play three times and didn't run them in a row. The first and third times were exactly the same: Vereen ineligible with the ball going to Hooman lined up in the usual LT spot running up the seam. The first time they did it, I don't think Harbaugh noticed at all since he didn't complain about it. The second time, Hooman was the ineligible guy on the right side in the slot, and that was the play that Edelman made the catch between his legs. Again, nothing from Harbaugh on there sideline. The third one, a carbon copy of the first got the Pats to the 10 yard line. On that play, Harbaugh picked up the penalty. There were several conventional plays between those three specific alignments.

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I don't know the specific details in the rule book but I suppose it only deals with "ineligible receiver downfield" and obviously not "ineligible receiver behind the line" BUT - this video clip shows 6 men running pass routes. Five go out past the line, Vereen drops back with his hands raised as if to prepare for a screen. In fact - if you look at Vereen and compare him to LeFell at the top of the video clip I would say Vereen looks to be running more of a pass play than LeFell who hardly moves while stepping over the line. That is bush-league at best.

The NFL rulebook does not define what a "pass route" is. What Vereen did was no more of a "pass route" then what a pulling guard does.

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Only one coach who started coaching since 1970 has more wins than Tony Dungy's 139.....Belichick has 211.

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the reality is belichick's provided the best football in the league ove rthe last decade.

you don't like belichick, you don't like football

I'll can see how that might be your reality.

That said I can assure you that the world is filled with people who like football very very much and despise Belichick.

In fact, many of those people are probably the ones who remind you that although you are right that he has been involved with some of the best football over the last decade, unfortunately in all that time ... he just couldn't win the big one.

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the reality is belichick's provided the best football in the league ove rthe last decade.

you don't like belichick, you don't like football

I'll can see how that might be your reality.

That said I can assure you that the world is filled with people who like football very very much and despise Belichick.

In fact, many of those people are probably the ones who remind you that although you are right that he has been involved with some of the best football over the last decade, unfortunately in all that time ... he just couldn't win the big one.

Love Belichick, want his team to lose.

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the reality is belichick's provided the best football in the league ove rthe last decade.

you don't like belichick, you don't like football

I'll can see how that might be your reality.

That said I can assure you that the world is filled with people who like football very very much and despise Belichick.

In fact, many of those people are probably the ones who remind you that although you are right that he has been involved with some of the best football over the last decade, unfortunately in all that time ... he just couldn't win the big one.

think he's won maybe 5 big ones

fyi

stop trolling

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