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Toads

I Owe You Guys An Explanation

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I've tried to hold my tongue and to let things settle so that I could report back on why I bailed in two. I'll try to give you my perception and try to fill in the gaps as to what precipitated that drastic action....what was the final straw and all.

It's my intention to do so without placing blame or being caustic and that's a challenge for me but here goes. It's my hope that this feedback will remain in place and be added to instead of being censored by the responsible parties.

When you reach the point where the fun goes out of the process it's time to move on. When that happens, and when I'm forced to resign as my only recourse, then that a sad day in black rock. I can not continue to gloss over the disease and not seek a solution to the problem. It's not my nature to do so: when I see something broken, it's my nature to try to fix it.

Now.....three years into this I've been around long enough to see how it is, to see the frustration that mounts when things turn into a fumble ****.

Year #1: learning the ropes making observations, asking questions about this or about that and wondering why:

1) There seemed to be a fire from the hip deal as the great #'s of drafts were run by guys that were just placed out there with "no direction home....into the complete unknown." Some drafts did this and some drafts did that with no ryme of reason as to what worked, didn't work, etc. In short, absolutely no help for these guys and nothing that would give them cause to avoid past mis-steps

2) No stated purpose as to reporting or standardizing the results. I remeber being really impressed with the results of BSS's ADP reports as it took a lot of work on his part to develop that as he needed to sift through the drafts and inturpret the info to develop those reports. I actuallu though that this was one of the purposes of this effort and that it was developed with that in mind.

3) There was the same for the new guy (me)....nothing by way of a guide for postings, how to make a fellow drafter a friend....how to use the machine to make it run smootly so that the other 15 guys, who were relying on me, could function accordingly.

I don't know if it was year #1 or year #2 when a major fumble **** occured during the WSL's when it all went way south for lack of directions around the super Bowl. Seems that there was some history that I was not privy to that made for clock-on and clock-off considerations over the week end . Some huys "thought this" and some guys "thought that" and it was just kinda accepted that it was OK not to communcate and solve the problem. Guy rides in on white horse, glosses over the whole deal and I vividly rembering asking the question "Who's in charge of this mess." It was a 72 hour turn around for some drafters but it was for learing, I guessed, and it was something that could be addressed once some guide lines were established.....just a communiucaction to all deal....a simple idea to avoid furture disasters.

Year #2 (last year):

1) A real encouraging sign as there appeared to be an effort affot to identify how this deal could run more smoothly. Long thread, lotsa good input and a ton of workable ideas. One of the best had to do with the same communication ideas: sending out a check in email prior to starting up a draft to make sure all the guys were "in tow." Great idea to avoid the slow start and the non-drafters and to eliminate the "I didn't know" posts.

2) It's still the same state of the act as year #1: no tools for draft managers, no help for new guys, same shoot from the hip stuff. Seems that the idea is to allow the guys to run the drafts and not give them the benefits of past experience....they are allowed to run the "free will" offerings and basically stumble though them as best they can.

2) I remember marveling that drafts were going on and chat was happening in the draft thread....and that there were drafts I was in that had no chat threads. So, I took the initaive and stepped up and did the chat thread. But, I also minced and diced the information the way I thought it should be done so that BSS didn't have to do it. all the positions by draft order, all the teams by draft slot....I really did it up because that made sense to me ....to help out BSS.

3) I made overtures about helping out with a "draft manual" but they weren't recieved. PM's to BNB were not returned. Just trying to help.

Year three (this year):

1) Thanked BNB for alerting me to the sign up thread and jumped on board. Compiled my initial list of ideas for helping out the drafts and sent BNB a PM asking if I could develop same as a means of making this deal easier for all concerned.

2) Result: stone wall, as before. Zippo, de nada.....no reply.

3) After three weeks, and remembering my question of "Who's in charge of this mess" I looked to the pinned topics and figured I should keep going so I added to my orginal PM (cc: in sent document) and forwarde it to Jeff. I figured that the ideas there would be welcomed and that the results would be helpful to all the guys herein. After all, Jeff is responsible for making it better (I thought) and he'll be all over this.

4) Mean while the draft in #2 is languishing and I get a PM that I'm up in #4. Great, love to do that and when I get there it looks like the same old story (second, third, fourth, fifth....verse:) no check in communication results in draft start with failure to show and I'm a replacement.

5) Jeff respnds after one week, after I send him a PM asking for some feed back. He guesses that it's worth a try and I send him back a PM asking a couple of questions and requesting that he respond back as to my proposal to pin the approved Guidebook as a means of distribting the information. My concern is that I'll go to all the trouble to do this and it will be ignored, not used, de-nada-ded....my experience have made me gun shy and I don't want to do all this for nothing. If you aren't gonna do this, just tell me and I'll go away.

Now....that's the state of the art going into SB week-end. I'm looking for a reply and I'm exicted to do this. No reply, same deal. And then comes the kicker: there's the experience of the previous fumbled hand off for the draft during the SB week end and I've alerted Jeff, in my PM's to the idea of communicating with the populace. There's nothing in the only document available for directions (The Rules) reguarding this happening and in lieu of same, or instructuions to some 70 drafters, the same mess that occured before occures again.......a complete and utter disaster.

Now, that's when it becomes apparent to me that something is not quite right in Denmark. That's when I wonder (out loud and in a post) if I'm ever gonna get a response?

So, that's it: when the same thing happens over and over again and I expect a different result, the jokes on me. I'll leave on the note and wonder why no more.

The jokes on all 70 of you and the next time the glass of beer or the dead pitch man comes in to put out the next fire you can try to figure out why. I can't wait till OldFatman gets the call in SSL. He'll be adrift in the seas of uncertainty with no way home and without a clue as to how to paddle the good ship lolly-pop.

Oh: one last idea. Did anyone ever stop to wonder why there's a site of 10-15,000 paid members, all of whom are dying to draft, who don't participate in the Mocks R Us part of this site?

P.S. Jeff, give um hell. You are right, it doesn't take a Guidebook to make a draft pick. It doesn't take a Guidebook to be able to run a draft. It just takes a civil response prior to doing the same thing over and over and over again. You ride can in and fix it without making it better so why bother to try?

Maybe someone else will ask if you, or BNB, really want input as to how to make it better?

Toodles, guys. All 70 of you deserve better. :moneybag:

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Hey Toads.

I appreciate your passion and you are definetly a character I would love to get your manual on how to improve this thing

but bailing on a draft is uncool and we are probably so suck in our ways that change is hard to achieve.

I get frustrated at times as well and Over PM and text and even email. But really its a February draft for a season that is really in Limbo.

So peace out you fruitcake!!!!

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Wow, a manual? Here I thought all I needed to do was take a quick peek at the MDRUs forums when I signed on to follow along.

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This is my 10th or 11th year of doing these things. Nearly everyone here seems to get along mostly fine and not stress out over the draft. So now in your 3rd year here, you declare the whole thing is in disarray and that's it for you.

alright. The rest of us will try to stay strong, you know....for the children.

Deuces.

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Hey Toads.I appreciate your passion and you are definetly a character I would love to get your manual on how to improve this thingbut bailing on a draft is uncool and we are probably so suck in our ways that change is hard to achieve. I get frustrated at times as well and Over PM and text and even email. But really its a February draft for a season that is really in Limbo. So peace out you fruitcake!!!!

I'm still around, editing that mess.It's drastic action for drastic times. I know the MRU drill and can learn just as much from the threads, from the results, as I can from participating in the drafts. i don't have to "beat my head against" that brick wall any more.Hopefully, this will have some benefical result. I just snapped when jeff posted that we were running on 4-6 picks a day after loosing a full week end.....in the draft thread yet. If Jeff wants to communicate to 15 guys to step it up there's all sorts of ways to do it. Posting in the draft thread is not one of 'um.....after a 72 hour + 3/4 of a day on Monday i just couldn't take it any more.Hopefully this "falling on my sword" helps you guys. Hopefully the results are benifical. What slayed me was the exact same deal a second time with absolutely no idea of what was gonna happen. I knew what was gonna happen and I let it unfold.The answer to "who was in charge' was revealed to me and I'm not gonna do these drafts once I know the answer to that question.Remember; there's a spot for you in E. Peace. :popcorn:

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I have some time at lunch so I will do the manual.

1) This is a slow (8-hour clock) draft.

2) Check in a minimum of three times per day, first thing in the morning, mid-afternoon and before going to bed.

3) Keep track of the picks already made with the Draft Dominator, an excel file, or a hand written list so that you do not select players already picked

4) Send out PMs to alert the next drafter or drafters to help the draft move along.

5) Join in discussions in sister threads discussing the draft

6) Be patient with other drafters that take longer than you think they ouught to

7) Enjoy

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Quitting in mid-draft does not help any of the remaining drafters.

My suggestion for the leagues that you quit on would be to not even count the first week scores and eliminate your roster. Not staying around to complete the draft should demand that you are eliminated from the league.

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Quitting in mid-draft does not help any of the remaining drafters.

My suggestion for the leagues that you quit on would be to not even count the first week scores and eliminate your roster. Not staying around to complete the draft should demand that you are eliminated from the league.

now hold on one second mr. fancy pants......Blaine Gabbert is going to lead this mofu to the title.....don't wanna hear no more noise about eliminating a roster......

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I've tried to hold my tongue and to let things settle so that I could report back on why I bailed in two. I'll try to give you my perception and try to fill in the gaps as to what precipitated that drastic action....what was the final straw and all.

I think you owe yourself an explanation.......of Why if you don't like how these drafts are done (right or wrong about improvements that could be made, they remain the same from year to year) then Why you continued to come back and Why after having started a draft you would use this self serving BS to try and justify bailing on a draft when YOU knew exactly how it was going to go?

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Toads, I like you, but it really seems like you should be spending your time doing something else.

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No need to overhaul the engine when a spark plug is dirty. These freebie leagues have run relatively smoothly for almost a decade with most people coming back year after year. What happens when someone doesn't follow your "manual"? Are we going to boot them, penalize them somehow?

You seem like one of those guys who makes things more complicated than needed. I personally invest a lot of time reminding these guys that league sign ups are up and getting things organized. I shouldn't need to send everyone a message that things are starting when the sign up thread says..."Drafts start the Monday after the AFC/NFC championship games for league one and the others will be stagger thereafter." AT some point in time it comes down to people taking some responsibility for their actions and exhibiting some common courtesy. When that does happen, the majority express their opinion and things usually get back on track.

Lastly, there's nothing worse than a quitter. I hope you aren't a parent because you aren't a good role model.

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It's drastic action for drastic times.

Are you insane? You realize this is a feburary fantasy football mock draft right?

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Lastly, there's nothing worse than a quitter. I hope you aren't a parent because you aren't a good role model.

Great post. Quitters and welchers piss me the #### off. By year 3, you know the drill. This thread is ridiculous.

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someone told me this was the thread with the whos underunderaged hoochie is hotter sanchez or ben

major disappointment

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*shrug*

I've enjoyed these for the past several years I've been in. I didn't think there needed to be any major overhauls. Maybe a tweak or two, but no big deal...

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Toads we started at the same time

I look at these drafts as just something to do as nothing much goes on in February, I use these drafts to determine how my one main fantasy team looks. I use them to see what rookie values might be. I use them to get my name known in the FBG community for getting into things that matter such as the FBG survivor and IDP survivor leagues for a chance at cash.

Dont care how long they take and what others are doing. I just try to be courteous so I dont end up in a mess like you are. But maybe this is due to age about not worrying about things that dont mean a hell of alot in life. I got 3 kids to worry about instead as a single parent and try to get laid once in a while

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It's drastic action for drastic times.

Are you insane? You realize this is a feburary fantasy football mock draft right?
:bow: ONE timeout. I honestly don't see the problem.

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Isn't Toads the guy who couldn't ever PM people correctly and kept blaming the board software? :rolleyes:

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Time for a thought provoking pick - 8 hours

Life happens - Timed Out

Commentary - Priceless

It all eventually works out, as long as nobody bails.

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Isn't Toads the guy who couldn't ever PM people correctly and kept blaming the board software? :rolleyes:

Yuppers. But in his defense, Pasquino and Rudnicki were supposed to be posting a manual on the board software and pm function.

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One thing I've noticed is if you want to try out a new style of survivor, all one has to do it to create a thread, explaining you ideas, and then ask for singups. That's how all these have came to fruition over the years. I started a kind of survivor called White Elephant a few years back. After some help from other FBG's the idea got off the ground and it had a three year run. I never tried to change and existing one, I made up my own. Yudkin started the Anarchys and the REUNION's where born out of a some guys who liked the guys they were competing against.

Start a thread. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel and invent a new kind of wheel.

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I had an aAgreement with my wife that when the time came to put our family friend, our dog of 16 years, "down" that I/we would do that.

That's kinda like the Agreement I had with all you guys: to do my best to take care of the interests of the other drafters when it came time to draft. I also had an unspoken Agreement with the process here in MRUs, that I would do my best to make it work. I expected that same type of extension from all of you guys.....and particularly from the guys wondering through the drafts, fixing the messes and putting out the fires.

Last Saturday, I had that duty to perform with my dog: tough duty to look into those eyes as they go dim. Even tougher is the memories from that whole process. Not good stuff and not something I ever hope to have to do again.

I returned home, checked the last draft posts.....dismissed it cause I was 16 or so picks down the road, and continued on. Sunday was a haunting day as the images from the previous day keept flooding in.

I missed this post, made Saturday at midnight and buried in the draft thread, cause I never updated my DD:

I'm going to honor the clock off for the SB and let S'fax get here.

The result was what followed on Monday. I never updated my DD to knock down the picks. Having experienced the exact same fumble **** two year's ago I was not real receptive to what appeared to be the same result for the second time and didn't need to know who drafted Jordy Nelson.

When it got to be late on Monday, I'd had enough so I took the only avenue left to me. If my Agreement was different than the rest then this place wasn't for me.

My thoughts at that time went back to the first time it occured and I remembered that there was a time clock that was in effect and that it was this or that and that I couldn't find it posted anywhere. I don't know if the time clock on-off hours are posted anywhere yet. If they are then I'm amiss. That's the kind of stuff I think is important....those details make it smooth for all.

So, I probably screwed up. In an ideal world, the Jeff's post would have been in a seperate thread and been made on Friday. Jeff's post would have effected all four drafts as he's the moderator. John Doe it the Draft Leader for #2 and if the Draft in #2 is effected, his seperate and distinct thread would be appropriate and it would effect Draft #2.

Most of the ideas for a Guidebook had to do with means and methods of communication. Example: at sign up, and if each guy lays down his email address (or sends it via PM), that information is critical to communicating with large numbers of people. A PM to the whole League takes 15 actions, an email takes one. The message shows up in the same place for a League's worth....or for all 70 guys.....in their email and not burried in a post somewhere.

Another part of the GB had to do with authority and responsibility: Jeff's the Moderator, Twighlight and BNB are the "Co-Commishes" and John Doe is the draft Leader. In an ideal (and defined) world, the Draft Leader make the calls for Draft #2, not the wondering Moderator in an obscure post burried in a thread somewhere. If the Moderator makes the call, it's MRUs wide, not in one thread somewhere and effecting one draft. The Moderator supplies the Draft Leader with the information in the Guidebook and the Draft Leader uses the method and enforces the rules.....not a wondering Moderator. If the DL has a problem or Q, he goes to the Commish and copies the Moderator.

At any rate, the process didn't seem to be existing and/or functioning and I remember looking to catch up....after about 70 hours and having those type perceptions.....that the Agreement I had was not the Agreement everyone else had and that it was time to move on. I guess the one thing I can add is that without a defined method, the whole thing turns into a fumble **** at the drop of a hat. Murphy's Law brings down the circus.

A second observation might be worthy: I'm only the messenger. I'm only trying to help. If all you guys agree that it's OK the way it is then I'm the odd man out. If all you guys agree that it couldn't be better then I'm wrong.

I just tried to help and was ignored. That's no reason for you all to lay down negative reviews in my profile.....you just must think it's OK to have it the way it is and that's your choice.

I never did and when it came down to accepting it or leaving, and after doing everything I could do in an attempt to make it better (and being ignored), I made the choice to accept the consequences of the latter.

True, I was not in a very good place at the time, and it was the wrong wrong choice given the unearthing of the above post. I made the choice given the information I had at that time. If I'd been given the information, if it had been delivered to me on Friday or Saturday, I would not have gone down that road. When it's no longer fun and "the chewing gum has lost it's flavor on the bed post overnight" (70 + hours), it's time to move on. Murphy got me; I'm a victim of that law and hopefully the communication deal is examined in length. It's what this is all about and it didn't work for me when I needed more information.

I made the choice and that's the way "the cookie crumbles." Too bad. :goodposting:

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That's no reason for you all to lay down negative reviews in my profile.....you just must think it's OK to have it the way it is and that's your choice.

;) I'm the only guy who appears to have left a comment & I gave you 5 stars. It was a tongue in cheek comment but it wasn't negative or mean spirited in any way.

Last Saturday, I had that duty to perform with my dog: tough duty to look into those eyes as they go dim. Even tougher is the memories from that whole process. Not good stuff and not something I ever hope to have to do again.

Sorry for your loss. Been there before & I'm in Agreement with you its a tough process to go through. I'm sure you will be in Agreement with me that communication is key & you should've let people know what was going on .

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A couple of things here:

1. I am A mod, not THE mod for these drafts. Several staffers partake in these and we help when and where we can, but these are BNB's and Twilight's babies (BNB runs the drafts for the most part while Twilight tracks the results).

2. Don't put the issue on my post for holding the clock on Super Bowl night. That literally cost us less than 2 hours (Shadowfax would have timed out at 10:23PM and then he picked in the overnight window). I chose to give him the clock and it really had no effect.

3. We all would have understood if you were having issues outside of this draft. We're all generally good people here even when we give each other a hard time over some picks, etc.

4. Falling on a guidebook really is an excuse. Could these be run more smoothly? Yes. Are these irrevocably broken? No.

5. Implement change if you see a place to do it. Most would welcome it and they'd latch on if it really did help.

6. These are slow drafts for a reason - there's nothing else going on, we have the time (and lives) to deal with a slow draft, and the forum is a means to comment / discuss / rail on picks.

7. Sorry for your loss. Hopefully you find yourself in a better place if and when you decide to come back to these.

ETA: Reading back over my comments they may come off as sounding harsh - that was not the intent. I'd have liked for you to continue and even asked you to stay, but you didn't reveal the extraneous items in your life that might have influenced your decision. Sorry that life and a simple winter FF draft got mixed up all at once for you, but trust me - if things come up we can always manage it. I hope that you come back to these when the time is right, but do understand that these aren't rigid drafts.

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I had an aAgreement with my wife that when the time came to put our family friend, our dog of 16 years, "down" that I/we would do that.

That's kinda like the Agreement I had with all you guys: to do my best to take care of the interests of the other drafters when it came time to draft. I also had an unspoken Agreement with the process here in MRUs, that I would do my best to make it work. I expected that same type of extension from all of you guys.....and particularly from the guys wondering through the drafts, fixing the messes and putting out the fires.

Last Saturday, I had that duty to perform with my dog: tough duty to look into those eyes as they go dim. Even tougher is the memories from that whole process. Not good stuff and not something I ever hope to have to do again.

I returned home, checked the last draft posts.....dismissed it cause I was 16 or so picks down the road, and continued on. Sunday was a haunting day as the images from the previous day keept flooding in.

I missed this post, made Saturday at midnight and buried in the draft thread, cause I never updated my DD:

I'm going to honor the clock off for the SB and let S'fax get here.

The result was what followed on Monday. I never updated my DD to knock down the picks. Having experienced the exact same fumble **** two year's ago I was not real receptive to what appeared to be the same result for the second time and didn't need to know who drafted Jordy Nelson.

When it got to be late on Monday, I'd had enough so I took the only avenue left to me. If my Agreement was different than the rest then this place wasn't for me.

My thoughts at that time went back to the first time it occured and I remembered that there was a time clock that was in effect and that it was this or that and that I couldn't find it posted anywhere. I don't know if the time clock on-off hours are posted anywhere yet. If they are then I'm amiss. That's the kind of stuff I think is important....those details make it smooth for all.

So, I probably screwed up. In an ideal world, the Jeff's post would have been in a seperate thread and been made on Friday. Jeff's post would have effected all four drafts as he's the moderator. John Doe it the Draft Leader for #2 and if the Draft in #2 is effected, his seperate and distinct thread would be appropriate and it would effect Draft #2.

Most of the ideas for a Guidebook had to do with means and methods of communication. Example: at sign up, and if each guy lays down his email address (or sends it via PM), that information is critical to communicating with large numbers of people. A PM to the whole League takes 15 actions, an email takes one. The message shows up in the same place for a League's worth....or for all 70 guys.....in their email and not burried in a post somewhere.

Another part of the GB had to do with authority and responsibility: Jeff's the Moderator, Twighlight and BNB are the "Co-Commishes" and John Doe is the draft Leader. In an ideal (and defined) world, the Draft Leader make the calls for Draft #2, not the wondering Moderator in an obscure post burried in a thread somewhere. If the Moderator makes the call, it's MRUs wide, not in one thread somewhere and effecting one draft. The Moderator supplies the Draft Leader with the information in the Guidebook and the Draft Leader uses the method and enforces the rules.....not a wondering Moderator. If the DL has a problem or Q, he goes to the Commish and copies the Moderator.

At any rate, the process didn't seem to be existing and/or functioning and I remember looking to catch up....after about 70 hours and having those type perceptions.....that the Agreement I had was not the Agreement everyone else had and that it was time to move on. I guess the one thing I can add is that without a defined method, the whole thing turns into a fumble **** at the drop of a hat. Murphy's Law brings down the circus.

A second observation might be worthy: I'm only the messenger. I'm only trying to help. If all you guys agree that it's OK the way it is then I'm the odd man out. If all you guys agree that it couldn't be better then I'm wrong.

I just tried to help and was ignored. That's no reason for you all to lay down negative reviews in my profile.....you just must think it's OK to have it the way it is and that's your choice.

I never did and when it came down to accepting it or leaving, and after doing everything I could do in an attempt to make it better (and being ignored), I made the choice to accept the consequences of the latter.

True, I was not in a very good place at the time, and it was the wrong wrong choice given the unearthing of the above post. I made the choice given the information I had at that time. If I'd been given the information, if it had been delivered to me on Friday or Saturday, I would not have gone down that road. When it's no longer fun and "the chewing gum has lost it's flavor on the bed post overnight" (70 + hours), it's time to move on. Murphy got me; I'm a victim of that law and hopefully the communication deal is examined in length. It's what this is all about and it didn't work for me when I needed more information.

I made the choice and that's the way "the cookie crumbles." Too bad. :goodposting:

Sorry about your dog, Toads. Its a bad place to be. And when something like that hits, every other stressful event is harder to handle.

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I still don't know what your complaint is.

Hoped somone would finally act as the stright man for this comedy routine....and you, of all people, should ask (after timing out on SB Saturday)?

Thought you'd never ask: "Who's in charge of this mess?"

Still looking for an answer to that question and having never found it, I could not, in good conscious, continue.

Like I said: You guys deserve better.

:tumbleweed:

Added By Edit: There's an excuse for not knowing. There's no excuse for not telling.

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nobody is really "in charge". BnB tries to organize them, Twilight handles the scoring, and a few others help out with keeping track of picks, etc. but they pretty much run themselves otherwise.

it's a bunch of people on a message board participating in a slow draft. there's no money involved and a pretty basic set of rules/guidelines that have been in place for many years.

it really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. if you prefer a more structured draft/league with a lot more communication, set one up yourself. these have been working the same way for a long time and people generally know what to expect when they sign up for one.

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6) Be patient with other drafters that take longer than you think they ouught to7) Enjoy

After being in and around this for the past 4 years, Number 6 is the most important rule. There is usually a post in the second round of every draft along these lines...."JEEZZZZUSSSSS dude, make a list and PM it to the people behind you. I am unemployed and on the boards 24/7, why cant you be on them as well and why do you delay the draft by 2 hours since you work??? COMMMMMMEEE ON MAN, SEND A FREAKIN list."Sigh. Not a hijack, bu this seemed the perfect thread to post this.This is an alt id from TeamRamRod. I co-own that with a bud and he wanted to draft this year as well, so I made this one for me and gave him TRR.Peace

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nobody is really "in charge". BnB tries to organize them, Twilight handles the scoring, and a few others help out with keeping track of picks, etc. but they pretty much run themselves otherwise.

it's a bunch of people on a message board participating in a slow draft. there's no money involved and a pretty basic set of rules/guidelines that have been in place for many years.

it really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. if you prefer a more structured draft/league with a lot more communication, set one up yourself. these have been working the same way for a long time and people generally know what to expect when they sign up for one.

Thanks, Aaron, for clarifying that. You said it, I didn't.

What made for the straw/horses back was that very fact.....and that the total chaos I observed year #1 was exactly the same chaos, engendered by the same set of circumstances, that happen year #3.

When the guidelines are not posted (see the clock considerations for time out) in the lead draft thread, when there's some extraneous and un-published set of precidents that effect the draft (see SB weekend unpublished history) and when the unpublished factors are "honored" with no timeout provisions enforced, that's not the way to wander through this process.

If there's an experience of previous chaos, and no recognition of the cause of the chaos, then there's no reason to avert it a second, and subsequent, time. If a simple communication to all drafters stating "clock off" for the SB weekend was layed out on Friday, this all would have been averted. If it happened once, there's reason to believe it may be a source of confusion the next time around.

Communication averts chaos. To deliberately avoid order at the expense of chaos, and to do so at the expense of those effected (16 guys in one League or 72 in four) is not for me.

Like I said, I don't have to participate to gain benefit. But, you're still left with the Q: "If there are 15,000 + paid members of this site, all who are loving to draft, why aren't there more particpants in the MRUs part of the site?"

Answer: because nobody cares to make it easy for them to participate. If nobody can figure out what consitutes a timeout, and nobody enforces the time out provisions, what are you left with?

Nothing...... and Nobody. :bag:

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nobody is really "in charge". BnB tries to organize them, Twilight handles the scoring, and a few others help out with keeping track of picks, etc. but they pretty much run themselves otherwise.

it's a bunch of people on a message board participating in a slow draft. there's no money involved and a pretty basic set of rules/guidelines that have been in place for many years.

it really doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. if you prefer a more structured draft/league with a lot more communication, set one up yourself. these have been working the same way for a long time and people generally know what to expect when they sign up for one.

Thanks, Aaron, for clarifying that. You said it, I didn't.

What made for the straw/horses back was that very fact.....and that the total chaos I observed year #1 was exactly the same chaos, engendered by the same set of circumstances, that happen year #3.

When the guidelines are not posted (see the clock considerations for time out) in the lead draft thread, when there's some extraneous and un-published set of precidents that effect the draft (see SB weekend unpublished history) and when the unpublished factors are "honored" with no timeout provisions enforced, that's not the way to wander through this process.

If there's an experience of previous chaos, and no recognition of the cause of the chaos, then there's no reason to avert it a second, and subsequent, time. If a simple communication to all drafters stating "clock off" for the SB weekend was layed out on Friday, this all would have been averted. If it happened once, there's reason to believe it may be a source of confusion the next time around.

Communication averts chaos. To deliberately avoid order at the expense of chaos, and to do so at the expense of those effected (16 guys in one League or 72 in four) is not for me.

Like I said, I don't have to participate to gain benefit. But, you're still left with the Q: "If there are 15,000 + paid members of this site, all who are loving to draft, why aren't there more particpants in the MRUs part of the site?"

Answer: because nobody cares to make it easy for them to participate. If nobody can figure out what consitutes a timeout, and nobody enforces the time out provisions, what are you left with?

Nothing...... and Nobody. :bag:

Put down the shovel...

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there's no chaos from where I sit except for the people who like to whine a lot about how fast things are going.

it's a draft in FEBRUARY for a season that might not even happen. as long as everybody gets a PM when they are up, there's no reason for anyone to #####, IMO.

when it's your turn to draft, you show up in the allotted period of time and make a pick. otherwise, go live your life and be merry.

Also, this subforum is here because we didn't want tons of mock drafts cluttering up the shark pool. I don't think we're exactly trying to recruit more and more people over to this part of the forums. These drafts have very little to do with Footballguys other than being held on the message boards here and including some staffers who like to draft as much as anyone.

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Sorry about your dog Toads, as I dog lover, I understand the stress and hurt that would cause.

However, other then that...I remember you from a few other leagues, you lost your mind a few years before the dog.

All 70 deserve each other? The fact that you aint hated more then me yet is a shock.

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Sorry ToadsHowever, other then that...I remember you from a few other leagues, you lost your mind a few years before the dog.

can't a guy lose his mind every so often?

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6) Be patient with other drafters that take longer than you think they ouught to7) Enjoy

After being in and around this for the past 4 years, Number 6 is the most important rule. There is usually a post in the second round of every draft along these lines...."JEEZZZZUSSSSS dude, make a list and PM it to the people behind you. I am unemployed and on the boards 24/7, why cant you be on them as well and why do you delay the draft by 2 hours since you work??? COMMMMMMEEE ON MAN, SEND A FREAKIN list."Sigh. Not a hijack, bu this seemed the perfect thread to post this.This is an alt id from TeamRamRod. I co-own that with a bud and he wanted to draft this year as well, so I made this one for me and gave him TRR.Peace
Wait Wait Wait. so you are telling me there are 2 teamramrods?????? WOW

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