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Well personal capital has gotten to be complete garbage.  I'm looking for an exit strategy that doesn't rhyme with lint

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On 10/16/2019 at 6:30 PM, Freak Show said:

If I own commercial property, and want to pass it on to my children, should I use an estate planner?

Yes, everyone should have a will.  Given you have commercial properties I would think you would need a trust and estates lawyer but even if someone just has kids they need one.   Cheaper online forms can be done but would think it would be worth hiring an actual lawyer in your case.  

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Chalk this one under conversations you didn't expect to have:

I've recently transferred most of our accounts from E-Trade to M1. The interface is better, I like the pie concept with free trades (which almost everyone has now), how the portfolio automatically buys your underperforming assets unless you change the targets. 

Our E-Trade rep has been great, no complaints about him whatsoever. He called to ask why we were leaving, I told him, and he just talked about how great M1 is and how he really likes their services. I was expecting him to try to get us to stay, but nope. He is just on orders to call people as they leave. He did ask that I consider referring others to them. Ok... 

So now we'll have both Roth accounts and our shorter term brokerage with m1. Most of our retirement is still with the TSP which I don't see leaving.  The 3 oldest kids college accounts are still with E-Trade, but that's a total of just under $100k.  Those are set, haven't traded in those accounts in years, no plan to. 

 

Edited by -OZ-

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On 10/22/2019 at 10:34 AM, culdeus said:

Well personal capital has gotten to be complete garbage.  I'm looking for an exit strategy that doesn't rhyme with lint

Can you expand on why?

I signed up about 2 months ago. So, I don't have previous frame of reference.

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3 hours ago, KCitons said:

Can you expand on why?

I signed up about 2 months ago. So, I don't have previous frame of reference.

Seems like more frequent downtimes with providers.  I mean getting a consistent amex and Chase update lately had been impossible just to name a few. 

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1 hour ago, culdeus said:

Seems like more frequent downtimes with providers.  I mean getting a consistent amex and Chase update lately had been impossible just to name a few. 

My Chase updates fine with Mint (although on a 24 hour delay, pending transactions don't really update), but, IIRC, AmEx won't let data aggregators access info during business hours. You have to get a refresh during the night. The issue is as much with the site housing the info, and what they authorize to access it, as it is with PC/Mint. Most of them don't want to bother with the security risk and block all the aggregators. I believe Motif, for example, just pulled the plug completely on aggregator access.

 

That said, Mint ain't what it used to be for a host of other reasons, and I don't really know of any other sites that do even half as good a job as the shoddy quality Mint has. It's a ripe market for a decent competitor who can just do the job without getting in its own way.

Edited by Walking Boot

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8 hours ago, Walking Boot said:

My Chase updates fine with Mint (although on a 24 hour delay, pending transactions don't really update), but, IIRC, AmEx won't let data aggregators access info during business hours. You have to get a refresh during the night. The issue is as much with the site housing the info, and what they authorize to access it, as it is with PC/Mint. Most of them don't want to bother with the security risk and block all the aggregators. I believe Motif, for example, just pulled the plug completely on aggregator access.

 

That said, Mint ain't what it used to be for a host of other reasons, and I don't really know of any other sites that do even half as good a job as the shoddy quality Mint has. It's a ripe market for a decent competitor who can just do the job without getting in its own way.

Given data breaches, etc. I think financial institutions will be less likely to allow aggregators in the future (or that is the excuse they will use).  Though I think the real reason they hate them is competitive reasons as they want to push you to use them for all your financial needs and aggregators let you spread stuff around more easily.   

Have used Mint in passed and still have an account but rarely check it other than to figure out total retirement savings in one place given my wifes 401k is in a different place then mine.  

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I feel like I cheated, and have become one of "those people".

Wife wanted bedroom furniture, and to be frank we could use it.  Go from a queen size mattress to King, get good new stuff, while we've had her parents hand me downs which they had since she was a kid.  

Found what we like at a "reasonable" price for new quality stuff. Asked for a deal if we paid cash, they wouldn't bite but offer 0% for 60 months.  The only loan we have is the mortgage, we paid cash for my car back in May.  But 0%, when we have the money, seems like a no brainer. The monthly payment is pretty close to what we get in interest monthly in our emergency / sinking funds.  I'm not sure if I'm justifying the cost, but we were ready to pay the cash now. 

So now I have a loan, haven't had one of those other than the mortgage in 9 years.  😐 Could pay it off tomorrow, but probably won't.

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On 3/16/2019 at 8:59 PM, rascal said:

Regarding roth vs traditional... it's impossible to predict the future, but i can look at historical rates and see that our taxes are lower now than typical.  As such, I'm trying to maintain a 2:1 ratio between traditional and roth retirement accounts.  

This. 

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On 12/1/2019 at 8:04 PM, -OZ- said:

I feel like I cheated, and have become one of "those people".

Wife wanted bedroom furniture, and to be frank we could use it.  Go from a queen size mattress to King, get good new stuff, while we've had her parents hand me downs which they had since she was a kid.  

Found what we like at a "reasonable" price for new quality stuff. Asked for a deal if we paid cash, they wouldn't bite but offer 0% for 60 months.  The only loan we have is the mortgage, we paid cash for my car back in May.  But 0%, when we have the money, seems like a no brainer. The monthly payment is pretty close to what we get in interest monthly in our emergency / sinking funds.  I'm not sure if I'm justifying the cost, but we were ready to pay the cash now. 

So now I have a loan, haven't had one of those other than the mortgage in 9 years.  😐 Could pay it off tomorrow, but probably won't.

Doesn't seem like there is a downside for you. Unless you blow the saved money. Buy a cd for the 60 months and count that as your "cash deal".

I get what you mean about not wanting to have loans. We just signed paper work for a $175k HELOC. We had to take $5k out up front, even though we don't need the money. It's going to cost us a little each month to keep a balance. And now I'm not sure we are going to use it at all with my dad's health issues. We spent so much time becoming debt free, it seems like you can undue that 10x quicker. 

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1 minute ago, KCitons said:

Doesn't seem like there is a downside for you. Unless you blow the saved money. Buy a cd for the 60 months and count that as your "cash deal".

I get what you mean about not wanting to have loans. We just signed paper work for a $175k HELOC. We had to take $5k out up front, even though we don't need the money. It's going to cost us a little each month to keep a balance. And now I'm not sure we are going to use it at all with my dad's health issues. We spent so much time becoming debt free, it seems like you can undue that 10x quicker. 

What rate? 

I've thought about opening one just for EF purposes, but we're really unlikely to use it. Our limit would be around $15k, assuming they want there to be a 20% buffer between our mortgage and home value (also assuming the value, based on recent sales here). 

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25 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

What rate? 

I've thought about opening one just for EF purposes, but we're really unlikely to use it. Our limit would be around $15k, assuming they want there to be a 20% buffer between our mortgage and home value (also assuming the value, based on recent sales here). 

6%

The purpose is to have cash readily available while we shop for a smaller house. I'd like to move first, then list our current home which has no first mortgage. The HELOC would only be used for 6 months, then everything would be paid off again. 

 

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On 10/16/2019 at 6:30 PM, Freak Show said:

If I own commercial property, and want to pass it on to my children, should I use an estate planner?

Not know your personal life, position nor your kids ages, your relationship with them etc. One option is form a small real estate holding company and make them minority owners. This can protect you and your kids in several ways. 

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On 12/1/2019 at 9:04 PM, -OZ- said:

I feel like I cheated, and have become one of "those people".

Wife wanted bedroom furniture, and to be frank we could use it.  Go from a queen size mattress to King, get good new stuff, while we've had her parents hand me downs which they had since she was a kid.  

Found what we like at a "reasonable" price for new quality stuff. Asked for a deal if we paid cash, they wouldn't bite but offer 0% for 60 months.  The only loan we have is the mortgage, we paid cash for my car back in May.  But 0%, when we have the money, seems like a no brainer. The monthly payment is pretty close to what we get in interest monthly in our emergency / sinking funds.  I'm not sure if I'm justifying the cost, but we were ready to pay the cash now. 

So now I have a loan, haven't had one of those other than the mortgage in 9 years.  😐 Could pay it off tomorrow, but probably won't.

Merchants (Best Buy, Amazon, Raymour & Flanigan etc) are so willing to sell you items that many offer 0% for "X" time frame. IMO its the only way to make purchases over $1k. 

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9 minutes ago, Buddy Ball 2K3 said:

Merchants (Best Buy, Amazon, Raymour & Flanigan etc) are so willing to sell you items that many offer 0% for "X" time frame. IMO its the only way to make purchases over $1k. 

I would argue that purchasing these items with Credit Cards (and paying them off each month) would return greater value than any interest you might earn in a savings account.

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15 minutes ago, Random said:

I would argue that purchasing these items with Credit Cards (and paying them off each month) would return greater value than any interest you might earn in a savings account.

I'll make payments through the credit card. 

Or get another card to churn and use that. But we should be able to use the card to pay monthly.

Even if we don't do that, I have a set amount I want to keep in savings. The extra funds go into investments. I hope to make more invested than the card would have returned in points.

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8 minutes ago, Random said:

I would argue that purchasing these items with Credit Cards (and paying them off each month) would return greater value than any interest you might earn in a savings account.

If the money is in a savings account my guess is the person is not worried about 2% interest but more interested in having the $ readily available. 

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3 hours ago, NutterButter said:

How social security benefits the wealthy

There's another idea I don't know if I've ever heard mentioned for addressing solvency; taxing benefits at 100% for those above certain income.  I guess its just another flavor of reducing benefits based on means.   

SS benefits are 85% taxed at the top end, so not far from the 100% you note.

What these researchers are ignoring is that high earners contribute past the second bend point, which is accretive to SS; i.e. they pay in much more to support that first 90% slope.  Their contribution to SS happens before retirement.

Also, it's important to point out that the SS actuarial tables are based on overall mortality rates.  They don't discriminate by economic status, race, gender, etc.  This is one area that treats all US citizens as equals - a laudable status.  

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3 minutes ago, Sand said:

SS benefits are 85% taxed at the top end, so not far from the 100% you note.

What these researchers are ignoring is that high earners contribute past the second bend point, which is accretive to SS; i.e. they pay in much more to support that first 90% slope.  Their contribution to SS happens before retirement.

Also, it's important to point out that the SS actuarial tables are based on overall mortality rates.  They don't discriminate by economic status, race, gender, etc.  This is one area that treats all US citizens as equals - a laudable status.  

There’s an inherent bias in there though 

https://news.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/graphic-jama1.jpg

 

Not suggesting there is any action needed, but the rich get more out of SS (proportionately) than the poor 

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1 hour ago, wilked said:

There’s an inherent bias in there though 

https://news.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/graphic-jama1.jpg

Not suggesting there is any action needed, but the rich get more out of SS (proportionately) than the poor 

Lots of interplay there.  The wealthier live longer, yes.  The less wealthy get a much greater percentage of their contributions returned due to the progressive nature of how SS is structured (see my post above about the bend points).  The wealthy also get taxed on 85% of their payments and the less wealthy generally don't get taxed on it (SS taxation is horribly complicated, as well, which makes it hard to model).  Not sure that it all evens out, but there were definitely factors left out of that article.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

SS benefits are 85% taxed at the top end, so not far from the 100% you note.

What these researchers are ignoring is that high earners contribute past the second bend point, which is accretive to SS; i.e. they pay in much more to support that first 90% slope.  Their contribution to SS happens before retirement.

Also, it's important to point out that the SS actuarial tables are based on overall mortality rates.  They don't discriminate by economic status, race, gender, etc.  This is one area that treats all US citizens as equals - a laudable status.  

Not sure what that extra 15% gets us, but just another option towards solvency.   Whatever the final solution, I'm pretty certain it will include some way of having the wealthy pay more.   

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On 10/9/2019 at 5:03 PM, skycriesmary said:

Any favorites of yours that aren't proprietary to any institutions? 

FWIW, I've owned AMT for a long time and it has done very well. Cell towers. 

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3 hours ago, NutterButter said:

Not sure what that extra 15% gets us, but just another option towards solvency.   Whatever the final solution, I'm pretty certain it will include some way of having the wealthy pay more.  

IMO it will involve removing the income cap on contributions.  

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Raising the cap seems a helluva lot more politically feasible than outright removal 

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14 hours ago, Sand said:

IMO it will involve removing the income cap on contributions.  

Yeah, that's what's being thrown out there.    As long as you keep the payout the same, accomplishing the same thing from the opposite end.   

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2 hours ago, ShaqAttaq said:

Raising the cap seems a helluva lot more politically feasible than outright removal 

There would be some push back from the high income earners for sure. But probably not a significant sway in voting.

Might even gain some votes if you're seen as a person who helped fix SS. 

I'd sure prefer it to adding a fee on stock trading.

Edited by -OZ-

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3 hours ago, ShaqAttaq said:

Raising the cap seems a helluva lot more politically feasible than outright removal 

I think they’ll end up doing that. It’s not a Trump thing but I could see it happen. It’s the easiest fix and is relatively the least painful. Someone making $1M has been paying 0.7% of their income while most everyone else pays 6.2%.

It’s annoying for me as I don’t make @Otis money but for most of my career I’ve had to pay an extra $200-300 every year for the increase. The limit keeps going up 3-4% so for the middle class the hit keeps going up but for the really high wage earners (who aren’t covered by hedge funds/capital gains where you don’t pay SS), it goes up by less than 1%.

If it’s a problem just rip the bandaid off and solve the problem. Medicare already doesn’t have a limit.

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2 hours ago, NutterButter said:

Yeah, that's what's being thrown out there.    As long as you keep the payout the same, accomplishing the same thing from the opposite end.   

This fix is one of the few that makes logical sense.  Lift the cap on payouts and the SS payroll tax cap limit.  The people at the top end put in much more than they get out at that point, so it's accretive to the SS system.  We just have to not be outraged that some lady in Albuquerque is getting a 10k SS check every month when she retires. 

I'd also argue that setting SS eligibility by using "average age of death - x years" instead of a set age also makes sense.  As lifespans grow or shorten the risk to the SS trust fund gets much easier to predict and manage.

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On 12/4/2019 at 3:57 PM, Sand said:

IMO it will involve removing the income cap on contributions.  

This is always what I come to as the solution as well.

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Asking for a friend... 

What value / how do you decide how to value your personal property if you actually wanted an accurate assessment of net worth? 

Home equity, cars, some other stuff is fairly straight forward, but what about all your furniture, clothing, etc? 

I don't care all that much about NW, but the wife asked :oldunsure: for her friend... 

Maybe it's time to start hiding money. 

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3 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Asking for a friend... 

What value / how do you decide how to value your personal property if you actually wanted an accurate assessment of net worth? 

Home equity, cars, some other stuff is fairly straight forward, but what about all your furniture, clothing, etc? 

I don't care all that much about NW, but the wife asked :oldunsure: for her friend... 

Maybe it's time to start hiding money. 

Probably depends on who exactly is getting the values.  I think the easiest way would be to do replacement value.  This will be higher than the actual value (new bedroom set is obviously more than a used bedroom set) but it's a start.

If this was just for my personal assessment, I wouldn't sweat it too much.  

Edited by eoMMan
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7 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

Asking for a friend... 

What value / how do you decide how to value your personal property if you actually wanted an accurate assessment of net worth? 

Home equity, cars, some other stuff is fairly straight forward, but what about all your furniture, clothing, etc? 

I don't care all that much about NW, but the wife asked :oldunsure: for her friend... 

Maybe it's time to start hiding money. 

We tried to sell our table set. No one wanted it. 
 

im guessing the market for my clothing is not high. 
 

assign a value of $-200 to hire movers to clear the stuff out of your house 

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25 minutes ago, wilked said:

We tried to sell our table set. No one wanted it. 
 

im guessing the market for my clothing is not high. 
 

assign a value of $-200 to hire movers to clear the stuff out of your house 

This.   Other than jewelry, everything else we own wouldn't be worth my time to sell it. 

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Was going to post the same. Despite ebay, craigslist, facebook marketplace, LetGo, etc. most used household goods aren't worth crap.

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Let her know the value of a human body based around just the chemical elements is about $160. 

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13 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Let her know the value of a human body based around just the chemical elements is about $160. 

Yet you can get ~$1,000 / month from a sperm bank. 💰

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2 hours ago, -OZ- said:

Asking for a friend... 

What value / how do you decide how to value your personal property if you actually wanted an accurate assessment of net worth? 

Home equity, cars, some other stuff is fairly straight forward, but what about all your furniture, clothing, etc? 

I don't care all that much about NW, but the wife asked :oldunsure: for her friend... 

Maybe it's time to start hiding money. 

Zero, unless it includes a Picasso or some big rocks in the jewelry box.  Good tools may be worth something, but probably not enough to make an effort to account for.

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2 hours ago, Sand said:

Zero, unless it includes a Picasso or some big rocks in the jewelry box.  Good tools may be worth something, but probably not enough to make an effort to account for.

Make sure you include your Peloton!

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18 minutes ago, BeTheMatch said:

Make sure you include your Peloton!

:kicksrock: just a tour de France. 

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4 minutes ago, Gawain said:

Just bought my first house at 40. Property taxes, huh?

Sucks. But think of all the things you get for your money. 

 

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18 hours ago, wilked said:

We tried to sell our table set. No one wanted it. 
 

im guessing the market for my clothing is not high. 
 

assign a value of $-200 to hire movers to clear the stuff out of your house 

Yeah, and really as Hagen mentioned with jewelry, it's only smaller stuff that may have value (like guns). 

Anything that takes up space (furniture, appliances) can routinely be found for free for anyone willing to haul it off. Heck, most of the furniture and appliances in my house (which is comfortably furnished and has 4 fridges not counting the one I just gave away) were either free or came with the house. 

One of these days I might upgrade the couch (which was free). My concern is not the cost of a new one. It's the PITA of getting rid of the current one. 

 

Edited by pollardsvision

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6 hours ago, culdeus said:

Property tax is my biggest expense.   Easily. 

Where? 

One nice thing I guess about living here, annual property taxes are less than our food budget for 2 months.  Almost equal to one month's principal and interest for the mortgage. 

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