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Personal Finance Advice and Education!

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1 hour ago, Sand said:

Interesting article here about how many people run out of money before their next paycheck.  If you look at Figure 1 the initial bars make sense - those with income issues have trouble making ends meet.  The curve starts dropping a bit at 50k of income (and it should keep dropping to the bottom right).  But then it stops and stays constant.  It absolutely blows me away that 1/3 of folks earning 100+k run out of money before their next paycheck.  And the number is the same at 200+k.  Absolutely astonishing - there are very few circumstances where a 200k earner should be paycheck to paycheck.  A full third?  Blows me away.  

It looks like about 1/3 of folks just can't wait to spend every penny.  

Not surprised either. There's no "real" excuse, but as a generalization, most people spend the money they receive. It's almost human nature. Very few people are savers or FIRE types. So bigger, more expensive houses, cars, dinners are just part of the lifestyle. I get that it's easier to get mad at the higher earners doing it, but it's probably also unrealistic to expect that most won't be in that paycheck to paycheck loop. 

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3 hours ago, Sand said:

Interesting article here about how many people run out of money before their next paycheck.  If you look at Figure 1 the initial bars make sense - those with income issues have trouble making ends meet.  The curve starts dropping a bit at 50k of income (and it should keep dropping to the bottom right).  But then it stops and stays constant.  It absolutely blows me away that 1/3 of folks earning 100+k run out of money before their next paycheck.  And the number is the same at 200+k.  Absolutely astonishing - there are very few circumstances where a 200k earner should be paycheck to paycheck.  A full third?  Blows me away.  

It looks like about 1/3 of folks just can't wait to spend every penny.  

Having spent 20+ years on a daily basis intimately discussing people's finances that sounds about right. Now ask about how many have properly prepared for retirement and I would say a third would be generous. 

And yes, it isn't just about earning power. I have seen people who make very little but live within their means and have built up savings and retirement. I have seen business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc that make ridiculous amounts of money but then spent ridiculous amounts of money. 

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Grasshopper and the Ant at its core. Honestly reminds me of a small part of George Carlin’s bit about the 10 Commandments which was something like:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s goods. Screw that, coveting makes the economy grow!

Edited by Buckna
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3 hours ago, stbugs said:

It doesn’t surprise me that much. People buy crazy houses and crazy cars. I’ve got a 7 year old Highlander and a 4 year old RX350 (F sport, not a grandpa yet) and both my wife and I make very good money. I can’t tell you how many people drive around in 70k SUVs to sporting events and most of them are younger than us so their mortgages are probably much higher as well. I can only imagine what neighbors with 1 income are doing.

Not to mention private schooling.  That stretched us really thin.  

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This is a shot in the dark.  I'm hoping one of you tax wizards can help me out.   My ex-wife (got divorced last Mar) had a trading account.   Over the years, I've deposited money in there and used it to trade  rather than opening my own account.   Prior to the divorce, I transferred my stocks out of her account and into my own at the same brokerage.  In oct, I sold some shares (some at a loss and some at a gain) and I thought they'd almost cancel each other out so I wouldn't owe any taxes.    I get my 1099 and I see that the stock I sold at a loss has a much lower cost basis than I originally had when it was in my ex-wife's account.  It turns out there's this gift rule adjustment which made the cost basis of that stock the value of the stock at the time of the transfer.   Am I stuck with this cost basis or is there something I can do to recoup the remainder of that cost basis?   Thank you for any help you can provide.   

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Stupid question maybe:

If we’re confident that the market will continue to go up over the long haul, why shouldn’t I be putting all or a large chunk of my portfolio into an ETF like UDOW, Pro Shares Ultra Pro Dow 30, which tracks the Dow but gives you 3x the movement in either direction.  I look back just 10 years on that and if I got 15 or 20 years of that return before I retire, I’d retire a pretty wealthy dude. 
 

What am I missing here?  Why doesn’t everyone do this?

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24 minutes ago, Otis said:

Stupid question maybe:

If we’re confident that the market will continue to go up over the long haul, why shouldn’t I be putting all or a large chunk of my portfolio into an ETF like UDOW, Pro Shares Ultra Pro Dow 30, which tracks the Dow but gives you 3x the movement in either direction.  I look back just 10 years on that and if I got 15 or 20 years of that return before I retire, I’d retire a pretty wealthy dude. 
 

What am I missing here?  Why doesn’t everyone do this?

Even if the trend is up, things don’t go in one direction as you know, they go up and down. 
 

the drawdowns in a bear market can wipe out gains quickly. UDOW has the good fortune to be birthed in 2009 after the crash. Had it been born two years earlier there would be no UDOW today, I am certain of that 

 

2008 saw something like a 40% drop from the top of the market. Now leverage that 3X and tell me how you recover from that. Once down 3X, you don’t get back to par with a 3X gain (put another way - you’ve got $100. You just took a 50% hit, now you’ve got $50. What percent gain do you need to get back to $100?) 

 

Edit to add: you have to pay high fees for that fund as well, both for mgmt and for the borrowing fees associated with the leveraging 

Edited by wilked
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17 minutes ago, wilked said:

Even if the trend is up, things don’t go in one direction as you know, they go up and down. 
 

the drawdowns in a bear market can wipe out gains quickly. UDOW has the good fortune to be birthed in 2009 after the crash. Had it been born two years earlier there would be no UDOW today, I am certain of that 

 

2008 saw something like a 40% drop from the top of the market. Now leverage that 3X and tell me how you recover from that. Once down 3X, you don’t get back to par with a 3X gain (put another way - you’ve got $100. You just took a 50% hit, now you’ve got $50. What percent gain do you need to get back to $100?) 

 

Edit to add: you have to pay high fees for that fund as well, both for mgmt and for the borrowing fees associated with the leveraging 

Got it thanks. And yeah, I noticed it went online right after the market tanked, so it really started at a perfect market bottom and had been alive through a historic run. I imagine some really smart folks put a crapload of money into it then thinking there was nowhere to go but up, and they got way richer. 
 

I guess you’re right though, one bad market run could kill your portfolio. 

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10 hours ago, NutterButter said:

Not to mention private schooling.  That stretched us really thin.  

I also wonder how many people in that 30% on the higher end fall into similar situations that I experienced; nice dual incomes for a while and then suddenly down to one income which could be due to any number of reasons: layoffs, career changes, babies, medical problems, whatever.

In my case we bought more house than we needed to but was still well within our budget when we were dual income; a few years later and my wife decided she hates her job and wants to change careers which significantly reduced our income. Then she had complications from shoulder surgery and couldn’t work for 9 months. That period of time stretched us very thin as well and we ended up cutting back on a lot of things I didn’t really realize we were spending on when we had more money coming in.

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10 hours ago, NutterButter said:

This is a shot in the dark.  I'm hoping one of you tax wizards can help me out.   My ex-wife (got divorced last Mar) had a trading account.   Over the years, I've deposited money in there and used it to trade  rather than opening my own account.   Prior to the divorce, I transferred my stocks out of her account and into my own at the same brokerage.  In oct, I sold some shares (some at a loss and some at a gain) and I thought they'd almost cancel each other out so I wouldn't owe any taxes.    I get my 1099 and I see that the stock I sold at a loss has a much lower cost basis than I originally had when it was in my ex-wife's account.  It turns out there's this gift rule adjustment which made the cost basis of that stock the value of the stock at the time of the transfer.   Am I stuck with this cost basis or is there something I can do to recoup the remainder of that cost basis?   Thank you for any help you can provide.   

Someone more tax knowledgeable than me should chime in. That is the gift rule adjustment.  I would have thought it didn’t apply between a married couple (at the time of transfer) but maybe it does. I guess if neither account was joint, it makes sense. I think you’re screwed. 

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55 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Someone more tax knowledgeable than me should chime in. That is the gift rule adjustment.  I would have thought it didn’t apply between a married couple (at the time of transfer) but maybe it does. I guess if neither account was joint, it makes sense. I think you’re screwed. 

Yeah, not having it in a joint account wasn’t smart. That said, no chance I’m going to tell you what is correct.

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12 hours ago, NutterButter said:

Not to mention private schooling.  That stretched us really thin.  

Yep. I’m in year 1 of 12 years of college. If all goes well, I should be able to find that all with salary and keep our savings in tact, which would make retirement much easier. That assumes my wife and I are still employed and also ignores any bonuses, etc. My wife stayed home with the kids for around 12 years so we didn’t get to sock away as much as we wanted in 529s. Was a great time to do so in the market but we didn’t have as much free cash. I’m legitimately amazed at where we are now 6-7 years after she went back to work but hot damn I think I’d be done now if I put the screws on the spending. Oh well, 10 more years of employment is all I care about (for me, she can be my sugar mama as long as she wants), but I can see where high income earners can be paycheck to paycheck. Kids, private school, spending spouse, keeping up with the Joneses. It’s easy to spend too much although we’ve had a great time too so I wouldn’t change much, just investing a bit more early (which I will force my boys to do).

One note, I graduated in the 90s into terrible job markets and bear markets (market crack in high school) so you didn’t hear nearly as much of the investing in stock angles until I was closing in on 30 and starting to have kids.

Edited by stbugs

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16 hours ago, Sand said:

Interesting article here about how many people run out of money before their next paycheck.  If you look at Figure 1 the initial bars make sense - those with income issues have trouble making ends meet.  The curve starts dropping a bit at 50k of income (and it should keep dropping to the bottom right).  But then it stops and stays constant.  It absolutely blows me away that 1/3 of folks earning 100+k run out of money before their next paycheck.  And the number is the same at 200+k.  Absolutely astonishing - there are very few circumstances where a 200k earner should be paycheck to paycheck.  A full third?  Blows me away.  

It looks like about 1/3 of folks just can't wait to spend every penny.  

It is crazy, but I see it every day. Just yesterday I got some pre-approved to buy a house. They make $200k a year and are having to get a gift for their $25k down payment...

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2 hours ago, Otis said:

Stupid question maybe:

If we’re confident that the market will continue to go up over the long haul, why shouldn’t I be putting all or a large chunk of my portfolio into an ETF like UDOW, Pro Shares Ultra Pro Dow 30, which tracks the Dow but gives you 3x the movement in either direction.  I look back just 10 years on that and if I got 15 or 20 years of that return before I retire, I’d retire a pretty wealthy dude. 
 

What am I missing here?  Why doesn’t everyone do this?

Hold on to that thought.  I'm working on some stuff.

If you want to read about a strategy based around this thought go look for Hedgefundie's great adventure thread over on bogleheads.  I wrote about it a bit in here and I have a portion of my portfolio in it.

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15 hours ago, stbugs said:

It doesn’t surprise me that much. People buy crazy houses and crazy cars. I’ve got a 7 year old Highlander and a 4 year old RX350 (F sport, not a grandpa yet) and both my wife and I make very good money. I can’t tell you how many people drive around in 70k SUVs to sporting events and most of them are younger than us so their mortgages are probably much higher as well. I can only imagine what neighbors with 1 income are doing.

I just retired (61 YO) so I now have the benefit of hindsight.  I was always a high earner and my wife quit working when we had our 1st kid 21 years ago.  She is very high maintenance and tends to try and stay up with the Joneses.  I, on the other hand, do not care about appearances.

Over the years when she would whine about neighbors having nicer homes, going on more vacations, and driving brand new cars I would remind her that we didn't know their situation and, for all we knew, they were one layoff away from disaster.

We had nice cars but we tended to keep them nearly 10 years.  Instead of a $650K home we could easily have afforded one double that cost. We never put our kids in private schools and they did great in the public ones.

And now that I'm retired many from our circle of friends have confided that they don't think they'll ever have enough $$ to retire.  Pretty damn sad.

Edited by gameday

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17 hours ago, The Tick said:

would like to see some info, says you can't receive messages.

I guess I need to clean out my messages, my bad.

I can't give you a hard and fast rule as all carriers are different.  Some have a set rule in place for build (built around BMI), while others might use a "point system" where you get a point for your BMI being under 30, and then another point if your BMI is under 25, and then various other points for stuff like family history, blood pressure, cholesterol, not smoking.....so many points gets you standard, a few more get you preferred, and maybe a few more get you their best class.  And not all carriers have the same number of health classifications either.

I'll use me as an example - I'm 5'11".  With one carrier, if my weight were between 227-247 I'd qualify for their standard rates - between 206-226 I'd qualify for their preferred, and 205 and under I'd qualify for their premier class.  They have a hard and fast rule - so right off the bat I know my best class.

With another carrier who uses points, you get one point if your BMI is under 30 (216 pounds for me), and another if it's under 25 (180 for me) - but you can still technically get the best rating on your policy without either of those points, assuming you get all the other points.  They also have a hard rule that the highest weight you can get at 5'11" to get standard is 272, and the highest for preferred would be 250. 

I know that's a lot of numbers, but it should give you an idea of what you'd be looking at.  Having a BMI under 28 would be best, but under 30 you should be ok. 

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2 hours ago, gameday said:

I just retired (61 YO) so I now have the benefit of hindsight.  I was always a high earner and my wife quit working when we had our 1st kid 21 years ago.  She is very high maintenance and tends to try and stay up with the Joneses.  I, on the other hand, do not care about appearances.

Over the years when she would whine about neighbors having nicer homes, going on more vacations, and driving brand new cars I would remind her that we didn't know their situation and, for all we knew, they were one layoff away from disaster.

We had nice cars but we tended to keep them nearly 10 years.  Instead of a $650K home we could easily have afforded one double that cost. We never put our kids in private schools and they did great in the public ones.

And now that I'm retired many from our circle of friends have confided that they don't think they'll ever have enough $$ to retire.  Pretty damn sad.

Exactly. I’m getting close enough to retirement that I think about it a lot and I’d honestly say that 10 years ago when my wife wasn’t working, I would have been worried. I feel a #### ton better now and actually think if we both continue working for at least 10 years that we should have a really great retirement. My wife is definitely more of a keeping up with the Joneses but it’s vacations which are great and she is making bank now so I give her a lot more leeway. We still keep cars forever and don’t spend $70k for a Suburban like neighbors do and we’ve got 60% equity in a $500k+ house. For our combined salaries and the ridiculously low rates, I’m sure most people would be living in a McMansion. One of the reasons we moved to our neighborhood is because of the schools. I don’t want to pay college costs for pre-college years. Our HS is top 10 in the state, plenty good for our boys.

Anyway, it’s easy to see people who don’t reign in their spending. Some are just wealthy and it doesn’t matter, some are as you said one lay-off away from moving.

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1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Exactly. I’m getting close enough to retirement that I think about it a lot and I’d honestly say that 10 years ago when my wife wasn’t working, I would have been worried. I feel a #### ton better now and actually think if we both continue working for at least 10 years that we should have a really great retirement. My wife is definitely more of a keeping up with the Joneses but it’s vacations which are great and she is making bank now so I give her a lot more leeway. We still keep cars forever and don’t spend $70k for a Suburban like neighbors do and we’ve got 60% equity in a $500k+ house. For our combined salaries and the ridiculously low rates, I’m sure most people would be living in a McMansion. One of the reasons we moved to our neighborhood is because of the schools. I don’t want to pay college costs for pre-college years. Our HS is top 10 in the state, plenty good for our boys.

Anyway, it’s easy to see people who don’t reign in their spending. Some are just wealthy and it doesn’t matter, some are as you said one lay-off away from moving.

I mean, it's not as good as its rival HS, but good enough...

😁

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I recently retired and my wife will next year.

Our current assets are: 

50% real property (home and rental equity)

30% 401K

5% Precious metals

5% Roth IRA (High risk/reward stock - CYDY)

15% cash (money market)

===================

My desire is to maintain our value for the next 6-12 months (maybe longer)

I am thinking of allocating my 401K to 1/3 "5 to go fund", 1/3 Inflation protected Treasury bonds. 1/3 Long term govt bonds

I'm also thinking of moving half of my cash to more precious metals.

With my desire simply to not lose any of my money (other than the 5% Roth gamble), is there a safer mix someone would recommend?

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, cosjobs said:

I recently retired and my wife will next year.

Our current assets are: 

50% real property (home and rental equity)

30% 401K

5% Precious metals

5% Roth IRA (High risk/reward stock - CYDY)

15% cash (money market)

===================

My desire is to maintain our value for the next 6-12 months (maybe longer)

I am thinking of allocating my 401K to 1/3 "5 to go fund", 1/3 Inflation protected Treasury bonds. 1/3 Long term govt bonds

I'm also thinking of moving half of my cash to more precious metals.

With my desire simply to not lose any of my money (other than the 5% Roth gamble), is there a safer mix someone would recommend?

 

 

 

 

You should cash it all out and buy a bunker. 
😉

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3 hours ago, cosjobs said:

I recently retired and my wife will next year.

Our current assets are: 

50% real property (home and rental equity)

30% 401K

5% Precious metals

5% Roth IRA (High risk/reward stock - CYDY)

15% cash (money market)

===================

My desire is to maintain our value for the next 6-12 months (maybe longer)

I am thinking of allocating my 401K to 1/3 "5 to go fund", 1/3 Inflation protected Treasury bonds. 1/3 Long term govt bonds

I'm also thinking of moving half of my cash to more precious metals.

With my desire simply to not lose any of my money (other than the 5% Roth gamble), is there a safer mix someone would recommend?

 

 

 

 

Joking aside, that's incredibly conservative as it is. Safe? If the economy and securities markets collapse any day now, sure. But if you spend 12 months waiting for that to happen while the markets keep going up, those are gains you'll never get back. And this , I assume, is all your retirement assets? So even money you (hopefully) don't need for 15-20 years? I think it's over the top, but if it makes you sleep better at night, it's right for you. 

I prefer the bucket approach where you have 2 years or so in cash, 4-6 years in bonds and then the rest in solid equities. 

Edited by ConstruxBoy
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Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

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If your planned savings can be relied upon like that, seems like a great opportunity. If you don’t have one already, maybe open up a credit card with a high credit line in case you really need it instead of tapping the IRA. 

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45 minutes ago, RUSF18 said:

If your planned savings can be relied upon like that, seems like a great opportunity. If you don’t have one already, maybe open up a credit card with a high credit line in case you really need it instead of tapping the IRA. 

Credit card over a home equity line of credit?  I think we probably have a good enough amount of total available credit on cards.  I think we have 4 or 5 cards probably totaling like $75k available or so. We don’t carry any balances.

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3 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

no brainer imo.

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8 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

Almost makes you wonder why that person isnt keeping such an amazing opportunity for themselves

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2 hours ago, wilked said:

Almost makes you wonder why that person isnt keeping such an amazing opportunity for themselves

Right

What exactly is this great opportunity?  Doesnt seem legit.

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11 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

Would this be completely passive for you?

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3 hours ago, wilked said:

Almost makes you wonder why that person isnt keeping such an amazing opportunity for themselves

It’s a pooled real estate investment for accredited investors and one of the principals has been a friend of me and my wife for about 20 years.  He has done several real estate deals.

i have no illusions about the possibility that the investment won’t pan out with the projected returns, though looking through the prospectus I think that it is a reasonable median outcome.   My only concern is that i have never really put this much cash on ice at one time.

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On 2/13/2020 at 5:47 AM, CR69 said:

It is crazy, but I see it every day. Just yesterday I got some pre-approved to buy a house. They make $200k a year and are having to get a gift for their $25k down payment...

That’s pretty much me. I drive a 10 year old car, we live in a small 4-bedroom rental house that is one of the best deals in town, and I haven’t been on a tropical vacation that wasn’t paid for by work in years. The only “extravagance” in terms of spending is private high school for my daughter. But the cost of living is just so damn high here that it’s hard to save, outside of maxing my retirement accounts. And it’s not just housing, which is ridiculous, it’s everything - $400/month for gas/electric (don’t even have a/c), gas is $.50-$1.00 more a gallon, restaurants or a cocktail or two (which we don’t do often) are double what they are elsewhere, and a combo of high state taxes and sales taxes. Throw in child support (even though I have 50/50 custody and the ex is long remarried), and many months I do coast into the next paycheck on fumes. 


 

 

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15 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

If you fully trust the people and make the right contract, I'd be on board. 

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Another finance thread? Ugh. In, I guess ;) 

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7 hours ago, SFBayDuck said:

That’s pretty much me. I drive a 10 year old car, we live in a small 4-bedroom rental house that is one of the best deals in town, and I haven’t been on a tropical vacation that wasn’t paid for by work in years. The only “extravagance” in terms of spending is private high school for my daughter. But the cost of living is just so damn high here that it’s hard to save, outside of maxing my retirement accounts. And it’s not just housing, which is ridiculous, it’s everything - $400/month for gas/electric (don’t even have a/c), gas is $.50-$1.00 more a gallon, restaurants or a cocktail or two (which we don’t do often) are double what they are elsewhere, and a combo of high state taxes and sales taxes. Throw in child support (even though I have 50/50 custody and the ex is long remarried), and many months I do coast into the next paycheck on fumes. 

In all fairness you live in the single most expensive place in the country.  

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10 hours ago, ghostguy123 said:

Right

What exactly is this great opportunity?  Doesnt seem legit.

:goodposting:

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21 hours ago, Long Ball Larry said:

Not sure if this can really be answered, but  just kind of thinking out loud.

we have an opportunity for an illiquid investment (real estate) that would tie up 60k for 3-5 years.  Offers 9.5% dividend each year with an additional projected 47.5% return at the end.  This would leave us with roughly $15k in cash reserves, which makes me a little nervous as not enough security.

We can build up about $3-5k per month in savings for the foreseeable future and I have another property that I am going to try to sell soon to net some additional cash.  We have Roth IRAs as well, which could theoretically be tapped if any huge emergency.

Does this seem like a safe enough backstop for the return?

So you're getting a $90K ARV rental property that needs 10K in repairs for 50K.  Rents are 800-900 less expenses netting you 5700/yr.  Doesn't seem unreasonable.

Edited by Random

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14 minutes ago, Random said:

So you're getting a $90K ARV rental property that needs 10K in repairs for 50K.  Rents are 800-900 less expenses netting you 5700/yr.  Doesn't seem unreasonable.

on a much much larger scale, but yes, more or less correct.

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41 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

on a much much larger scale, but yes, more or less correct.

Right but your share is $60K so I went off that.  I would say the 47% return in 3-5 years is the most uncertain, esp if you're talking about commercial RE.

Edited by Random

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41 minutes ago, Long Ball Larry said:

on a much much larger scale, but yes, more or less correct.

Didnt you say this was passive?  

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Wondering if anyone wants to give advice on a couple of jobs:

Job A: 87K + 5% bonus. Roughly 50 hours a week and 50 min commute each way each day. Very stable. Growth path to my bosses job (110-125) in the next 3-5 years.

Job B: 110K + 6% bonus. Roughly 45 hours a week working from home. Traveling away from home 12 weeks out of the year. 2 year contract, but very unstable afterwards. No growth path.

Left Job B 4 months ago because I was moving. Liked the job/boss. Received a call from him on Friday saying my replacement wasn't working out and they want me back.
Have three kids; 3, 2, 7 months. Wife is SAHM. Decent amount of support around us.

Realize not the right thread, but value the opinions of a lot of posters in here.

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1 hour ago, Sand said:

In all fairness you live in the single most expensive place in the country.  

True, and there’s a reason for that, it’s awesome here.  Today after my morning trail run we went to the beach, then ate lunch outside.  But it obviously comes with some pretty significant financial trade-offs for those of us non-hedge fund, VC, or CEO types. 

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1 hour ago, Gawain said:

Wondering if anyone wants to give advice on a couple of jobs:

Job A: 87K + 5% bonus. Roughly 50 hours a week and 50 min commute each way each day. Very stable. Growth path to my bosses job (110-125) in the next 3-5 years.

Job B: 110K + 6% bonus. Roughly 45 hours a week working from home. Traveling away from home 12 weeks out of the year. 2 year contract, but very unstable afterwards. No growth path.

Left Job B 4 months ago because I was moving. Liked the job/boss. Received a call from him on Friday saying my replacement wasn't working out and they want me back.
Have three kids; 3, 2, 7 months. Wife is SAHM. Decent amount of support around us.

Realize not the right thread, but value the opinions of a lot of posters in here.

With Job B, how much of a plus or minus is the traveling.     I guess same goes for the SAH with your wife and maybe kids being there all the time.  Meaning, I know if my wife was SAHM and I had two young kids there as well, I'll rather go into the office.  In addition, some people don't value SAH as much.  Me personally, I like going into the office at least a few days a week and essentially socializing.  Is the salary difference really gonna come in handy or is it more disposable income?   How comfortable do you feel about getting another job at least in a manageable salary range after the 2 years?

Edited by NutterButter
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1 hour ago, Gawain said:

Wondering if anyone wants to give advice on a couple of jobs:

Job A: 87K + 5% bonus. Roughly 50 hours a week and 50 min commute each way each day. Very stable. Growth path to my bosses job (110-125) in the next 3-5 years.

Job B: 110K + 6% bonus. Roughly 45 hours a week working from home. Traveling away from home 12 weeks out of the year. 2 year contract, but very unstable afterwards. No growth path.

Left Job B 4 months ago because I was moving. Liked the job/boss. Received a call from him on Friday saying my replacement wasn't working out and they want me back.
Have three kids; 3, 2, 7 months. Wife is SAHM. Decent amount of support around us.

Realize not the right thread, but value the opinions of a lot of posters in here.

Negotiate 125k and 10% bonus with 4 year contract

Also depends if you even want your bosses job with your current place

Edited by ghostguy123
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8 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

With Job B, how much of a plus or minus is the traveling.     I guess same goes for the SAH with your wife and maybe kids being there all the time.  Meaning, I know if my wife was SAHM and I had two young kids there as well, I'll rather go into the office.  In addition, some people don't value SAH as much.  Me personally, I like going into the office at least a few days a week and essentially socializing.  Is the salary difference really gonna come in handy or is it more disposable income?   How comfortable do you feel about getting another job at least in a manageable salary range after the 2 years?

Traveling is a pain, but probably at least outweighed by the fact that I'd be WFH three weeks out of the month. Currently I'm out the door at 6 AM and home between 5-7 PM. With job B, I'd be around to help the kids get up and get breakfast and then help with lunch. My current position doesn't have much in the way of socialization, as it's either my boss or people I manage on site.

I've been thinking that the salary bump would go towards funding an MBA over the next two years. If so, I'd anticipate being at least as employable in 24 months.

1 minute ago, ghostguy123 said:

Negotiate 125k and 10% bonus with 4 year contract

As I laid it out, this is the best I could do (reason I'm in operations and not sourcing)

 

Edited by Gawain

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3 minutes ago, Gawain said:

 

As I laid it out, this is the best I could do (reason I'm in operations and not sourcing)

 

Do you want your bosses job?

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4 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Do you want your bosses job?

Yeah, though there's a reason my boss and his boss are both on their second marriages (long hours). I'd prefer to avoid that.

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24 minutes ago, Gawain said:

Yeah, though there's a reason my boss and his boss are both on their second marriages (long hours). I'd prefer to avoid that.

So the hours are even longer with your boss's job?   That a pretty long day with A as it is. 

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4 minutes ago, NutterButter said:

So the hours are even longer with your boss's job?   That a pretty long day with A as it is. 

Probably about the same, but it's 24/5 responsibility so going into the night is uncommon, but not rare.
 

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2 hours ago, SFBayDuck said:

True, and there’s a reason for that, it’s awesome here.  Today after my morning trail run we went to the beach, then ate lunch outside.  But it obviously comes with some pretty significant financial trade-offs for those of us non-hedge fund, VC, or CEO types. 

I’m with you. 
non-CEO/non-hedge fund guy here. 
 

luckily we’ve owned since 2001 (even then, parents said to Mrs and I, “you’re paying WHAT for a 4 BR house?!?!). 
 

now that we’re single income, it’s hard to save more than maxing out 401k and IRA, $250/mo for 2 kids 529’s. Used to save a few $k more each year besides that but the recent tax changes now chews that up. 
 

all that said, wouldn’t want to live anywhere ride. Thinking of downsizing in 8 years when youngest graduates high school (moving 30 miles further north of SF). Love it around here. 

Edited by joey
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