-jb-
Footballguy
There aren't any values on the chart. Does this normalize for years in use? If it does, then that's pretty awesome.
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Meltdown in Japan's Reactors (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter David Dodds
- Start date
bueno
In a class by himself
But hardly surprising.
At least enough time has passed that folks can draw 
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Would love to have seen this quote from you when the fear being sold largely supported your political agenda from '01-'08.
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
Reported there is a core breach. Un good. Possible uncontrolled radiation leakage.
3C's
Footballguy
What I read: According to the officials, pressure inside the reactor core is stable and the agency doesn't believe the reactor is cracked or broken. But it says it is highly possible that radioactive materials are leaking from somewhere in the reactor.Not really sure where the leak would be from.Good news: they should be able to start pumping fresh water into some of the reactors soon.
beer 30
Footballguy
Ironic certainly but the circumstances couldn't be more different. And for the record I'm not totally on board with the dropping of two atomic weapons on a country we pretty much could have firebombed back to the stone ages ( and did to a certain extent).[/endhijack]
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Breach in reactor suspected at Japanese nuke plant
By SHINO YUASA and JAY ALABASTER, Associated Press
TOKYO – A suspected breach in the core of a reactor at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant could mean more serious radioactive contamination, Japanese officials revealed Friday, as the prime minister called the country's ongoing fight to stabilize the plant "very grave and serious."
A somber Prime Minister Naoto Kan sounded a pessimistic note at a briefing hours after nuclear safety officials announced what could be a major setback in the urgent mission to stop the plant from leaking radiation, two weeks after a devastating earthquake and tsunami disabled it.
"The situation today at the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant is still very grave and serious. We must remain vigilant," Kan said. "We are not in a position where we can be optimistic. We must treat every development with the utmost care."
The uncertain situation halted work at the nuclear complex, where dozens had been trying feverishly to stop the overheated plant from leaking dangerous radiation. The plant has leaked some low levels of radiation, but a breach could mean a much larger release of contaminants.
The possible breach in Unit 3 might be a crack or a hole in the stainless steel chamber of the reactor core or in the spent fuel pool that's lined with several feet of reinforced concrete. The temperature and pressure inside the core, which holds the fuel rods, remained stable and was far lower than would further melt the core.
Suspicions of a possible breach were raised when two workers waded into water 10,000 times more radioactive than levels normally found in water in or around a reactor and suffered skin burns, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.
Kan apologized to farmers and business owners for the toll the radiation has had on their livelihoods: Several countries have halted some food imports from areas near the plant after milk and produce were found to contain elevated levels of radiation.
He also thanked utility workers, firefighters and military personnel for "risking their lives" to cool the overheated facility.
The alarm Friday comes two weeks to the day since the magnitude-9 quake triggered a tsunami that enveloped cities along the northeastern coast and knocked out the Fukushima reactor's cooling systems.
Police said the official death toll jumped past 10,000 on Friday. With the cleanup and recovery operations continuing and more than 17,400 listed as missing, the final number of dead was expected to surpass 18,000.
The nuclear crisis has compounded the challenges faced by a nation already saddled with a humanitarian disaster. Much of the frigid northeast remains a scene of despair and devastation, with Japan struggling to feed and house hundreds of thousands of homeless survivors, clear away debris and bury the dead.
A breach could mean a leak has been seeping for days, likely since the hydrogen explosion at Unit 3 on March 14. It's not clear if any of the contaminated water has run into the ground. Radiation readings for the air were not yet available for Friday, but detections in recent days have shown no significant spike.
But elevated levels of radiation have already turned up in raw milk, seawater and 11 kinds of vegetables, including broccoli, cauliflower and turnips. Tap water in several areas of Japan — including Tokyo — also showed radiation levels considered unsafe for infants, who are particularly vulnerable to cancer-causing radioactive iodine, officials said.
The scare caused a run on bottled water in the capital, and Tokyo municipal officials are distributing it to families with babies.
Previous radioactive emissions have come from intentional efforts to vent small amounts of steam through valves to prevent the core from bursting. However, releases from a breach could allow uncontrolled quantities of radioactive contaminants to escape into the surrounding ground or air.
Government spokesman Yukio Edano said "safety measures may not be adequate" and warned that may contribute to rising anxiety among people about how the disaster is being managed.
"We have to make sure that safety is secured for the people working in that area. We truly believe that is incumbent upon us," the chief Cabinet secretary told reporters.
Edano said people living 12 to 20 miles (20 to 30 kilometers) from the plant should still be safe from the radiation as long as they stay indoors. But since supplies are not being delivered to the area fast enough, he said it may be better for residents in the area to voluntarily evacuate to places with better facilities.
"If the current situation is protracted and worsens, then we will not deny the possibility of (mandatory) evacuation," he said.
NISA spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama said later that plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. was issued a "very strong warning" for safety violations and that a thorough review would be conducted once the situation stabilizes.
Meanwhile, damage to factories was taking its toll on the world's third-largest economy and creating a ripple effect felt worldwide.
Nissan Motor Co. said it may move part of its engine production line to the United States because of damage to a plant.
The quake and tsunami are emerging as the world's most expensive natural disasters on record, wreaking up to $310 billion in damages, the government said.
"There is no doubt that we have immense economic and financial damage," Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda said. "It will be our task how to recover from the damage."
At Sendai's port, brand new Toyota cars lay crushed in piles. At the airport, flooded by the tsunami on March 11, U.S. Marines used bulldozers and shovels to shift wrecked cars that lay scattered like discarded toys.
Still, there were examples of resilience, patience and fortitude across the region.
In Soma, a hard-hit town along the Fukushima prefecture coast, rubble covered the block where Hiroshi Suzuki's home once stood. He watched as soldiers dug into mounds of timber had been neighbors' homes in search of bodies. Just three bodies have been pulled out.
"I never expected to have to live through anything like this," he said mournfully. Suzuki is one of Soma's lucky residents, but the tsunami washed away the shop where he sold fish and seaweed.
"My business is gone. I don't think I will ever be able to recover," said Suzuki, 59.
Still, he managed to find a bright side. "The one good thing is the way everyone is pulling together and helping each other. No one is stealing or looting," he said.
"It makes me feel proud to be Japanese."
___
Alabaster reported from Onagawa. Associated Press writers Elaine Kurtenbach, Tomoko A. Hosaka, Kristen Gelineau, Jean H. Lee and Jeff Donn in Tokyo, Eric Talmadge in Soma and Johnson Lai in Sendai contributed to this report.
By SHINO YUASA and JAY ALABASTER, Associated Press
TOKYO – A suspected breach in the core of a reactor at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant could mean more serious radioactive contamination, Japanese officials revealed Friday, as the prime minister called the country's ongoing fight to stabilize the plant "very grave and serious."
A somber Prime Minister Naoto Kan sounded a pessimistic note at a briefing hours after nuclear safety officials announced what could be a major setback in the urgent mission to stop the plant from leaking radiation, two weeks after a devastating earthquake and tsunami disabled it.
"The situation today at the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plant is still very grave and serious. We must remain vigilant," Kan said. "We are not in a position where we can be optimistic. We must treat every development with the utmost care."
The uncertain situation halted work at the nuclear complex, where dozens had been trying feverishly to stop the overheated plant from leaking dangerous radiation. The plant has leaked some low levels of radiation, but a breach could mean a much larger release of contaminants.
The possible breach in Unit 3 might be a crack or a hole in the stainless steel chamber of the reactor core or in the spent fuel pool that's lined with several feet of reinforced concrete. The temperature and pressure inside the core, which holds the fuel rods, remained stable and was far lower than would further melt the core.
Suspicions of a possible breach were raised when two workers waded into water 10,000 times more radioactive than levels normally found in water in or around a reactor and suffered skin burns, the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said.
Kan apologized to farmers and business owners for the toll the radiation has had on their livelihoods: Several countries have halted some food imports from areas near the plant after milk and produce were found to contain elevated levels of radiation.
He also thanked utility workers, firefighters and military personnel for "risking their lives" to cool the overheated facility.
The alarm Friday comes two weeks to the day since the magnitude-9 quake triggered a tsunami that enveloped cities along the northeastern coast and knocked out the Fukushima reactor's cooling systems.
Police said the official death toll jumped past 10,000 on Friday. With the cleanup and recovery operations continuing and more than 17,400 listed as missing, the final number of dead was expected to surpass 18,000.
The nuclear crisis has compounded the challenges faced by a nation already saddled with a humanitarian disaster. Much of the frigid northeast remains a scene of despair and devastation, with Japan struggling to feed and house hundreds of thousands of homeless survivors, clear away debris and bury the dead.
A breach could mean a leak has been seeping for days, likely since the hydrogen explosion at Unit 3 on March 14. It's not clear if any of the contaminated water has run into the ground. Radiation readings for the air were not yet available for Friday, but detections in recent days have shown no significant spike.
But elevated levels of radiation have already turned up in raw milk, seawater and 11 kinds of vegetables, including broccoli, cauliflower and turnips. Tap water in several areas of Japan — including Tokyo — also showed radiation levels considered unsafe for infants, who are particularly vulnerable to cancer-causing radioactive iodine, officials said.
The scare caused a run on bottled water in the capital, and Tokyo municipal officials are distributing it to families with babies.
Previous radioactive emissions have come from intentional efforts to vent small amounts of steam through valves to prevent the core from bursting. However, releases from a breach could allow uncontrolled quantities of radioactive contaminants to escape into the surrounding ground or air.
Government spokesman Yukio Edano said "safety measures may not be adequate" and warned that may contribute to rising anxiety among people about how the disaster is being managed.
"We have to make sure that safety is secured for the people working in that area. We truly believe that is incumbent upon us," the chief Cabinet secretary told reporters.
Edano said people living 12 to 20 miles (20 to 30 kilometers) from the plant should still be safe from the radiation as long as they stay indoors. But since supplies are not being delivered to the area fast enough, he said it may be better for residents in the area to voluntarily evacuate to places with better facilities.
"If the current situation is protracted and worsens, then we will not deny the possibility of (mandatory) evacuation," he said.
NISA spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama said later that plant operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. was issued a "very strong warning" for safety violations and that a thorough review would be conducted once the situation stabilizes.
Meanwhile, damage to factories was taking its toll on the world's third-largest economy and creating a ripple effect felt worldwide.
Nissan Motor Co. said it may move part of its engine production line to the United States because of damage to a plant.
The quake and tsunami are emerging as the world's most expensive natural disasters on record, wreaking up to $310 billion in damages, the government said.
"There is no doubt that we have immense economic and financial damage," Finance Minister Yoshihiko Noda said. "It will be our task how to recover from the damage."
At Sendai's port, brand new Toyota cars lay crushed in piles. At the airport, flooded by the tsunami on March 11, U.S. Marines used bulldozers and shovels to shift wrecked cars that lay scattered like discarded toys.
Still, there were examples of resilience, patience and fortitude across the region.
In Soma, a hard-hit town along the Fukushima prefecture coast, rubble covered the block where Hiroshi Suzuki's home once stood. He watched as soldiers dug into mounds of timber had been neighbors' homes in search of bodies. Just three bodies have been pulled out.
"I never expected to have to live through anything like this," he said mournfully. Suzuki is one of Soma's lucky residents, but the tsunami washed away the shop where he sold fish and seaweed.
"My business is gone. I don't think I will ever be able to recover," said Suzuki, 59.
Still, he managed to find a bright side. "The one good thing is the way everyone is pulling together and helping each other. No one is stealing or looting," he said.
"It makes me feel proud to be Japanese."
___
Alabaster reported from Onagawa. Associated Press writers Elaine Kurtenbach, Tomoko A. Hosaka, Kristen Gelineau, Jean H. Lee and Jeff Donn in Tokyo, Eric Talmadge in Soma and Johnson Lai in Sendai contributed to this report.
culdeus
Footballguy
We did firebomb them back to the stone ages. It didn't work.
bueno
In a class by himself
You may have been afraid. I never was.
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
It stopped being used in '08?
Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
How is that relevant?
bueno
In a class by himself
How is TommyGunz relevant?
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Sure it did. Our government merely told us that it didn't work to justify use of the atomic bombs.
SofaKings
Footballguy
Yeah, tell that to the guys who slugged through Okinawa. Revisionist history at its finest.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
There are still plenty of people who cling to the lie out of guilt.
SofaKings
Footballguy
It was reality but if you want to armchair qb it, go ahead. Guilt?
timschochet
Footballguy
No they sell whatever sells. Don't blame the news organizations. They have noticed, over the last couple of weeks, that every time they mention the word "nuclear" they get more viewers than when they just focus on the tsunami. So naturally they have one story after another about the nuclear situation, and a lot of this involves turning every molehill into a mountain.But suppose the public in general was bored with the nuclear stuff and turned the channel whenever it was featured? Then the news organizations would stop trying to sell it.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
It's difficult to justify the execution of 250,000 women and children. One way to do it is to claim that those women and children would have armed themselves and killed millions of our soldiers. With sticks and rocks. Well, it could have happened, right??It was reality but if you want to armchair qb it, go ahead. Guilt?
SofaKings
Footballguy
War is hell.It's difficult to justify the execution of 250,000 women and children. One way to do it is to claim that those women and children would have armed themselves and killed millions of our soldiers. With sticks and rocks. Well, it could have happened, right??It was reality but if you want to armchair qb it, go ahead. Guilt?
beer 30
Footballguy
Indeed. Folks in Dresden were carpet bombed for retaliation too. War sucks but if you are not prepared to suffer the consequences of your actions then don't start one involving most of the industrialized world. I'm not saying what was done was right but looking through a 70 year old hindsight telescope back to the day doesn't play in my book. Sorry Joe.Now can we please get this thread back on track so Ham & Dodds can get me up to date on when, exactly, the world will be ending? Thank youWar is hell.It's difficult to justify the execution of 250,000 women and children. One way to do it is to claim that those women and children would have armed themselves and killed millions of our soldiers. With sticks and rocks. Well, it could have happened, right??It was reality but if you want to armchair qb it, go ahead. Guilt?
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bueno
In a class by himself
Fear sells.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
I have a question. Should we stop drinking milk for a while? I heard lots of people developed thyroid cancer after Chernobyl because the governments in Russia and Europe didn't warn their people not to drink radioactive milk.
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bueno
In a class by himself
I'm not changing my drinking habits.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Yeah, sure. I take that you mean you don't drink milk anyway.
bueno
In a class by himself
No but I eat a lot of yogurt, and I'm not changing that habit either.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Crap! I didn't think of yogurt and just stocked up with 4 containers of Chobani.
It takes a while for the yogurt culture to grow so these must be made with milk more than two weeks old. I have to go cold turkey on Greek yogurt after I finish the current supply.
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bueno
In a class by himself
What a coincidence, that's my favorite brand as well. But I'm not worried about yogurt or milk unless it came from cows that were grazing on the reactor grounds the whole time. And then only for 2 months or so.Crap! I didn't think of yogurt and just stocked up with 4 containers of Chobani.
Fennis
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
What a coincidence, that's my favorite brand as well. But I'm not worried about yogurt or milk unless it came from cows that were grazing on the reactor grounds the whole time. And then only for 2 months or so.Crap! I didn't think of yogurt and just stocked up with 4 containers of Chobani.
This is completely off topic but I have been making my own yogurt for about three years. Homemade from organic milk (w/a little half and half or cream) is way better than anything I can find in stores. I go through at least a half gallon a week. Anyway, sometimes I lose my starter or the whey loses it's zip and when that happens I've discovered Chobani is by far the best starter for a new batch. Full fat Fage is my favorite store brand, but Chobani has the best cultures.Back to your regularly scheduled apocalypse.
bosoxs45
Footballguy
Low levels of radioactive iodine likely resulting from the nuclear accident in Japan have been detected in a sample of rainwater in Massachusetts, state health officials said today.
To read more, visit http://www.boston.com
To read more, visit http://www.boston.com
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Which part of the article don't you understand?Low levels of radioactive iodine likely resulting from the nuclear accident in Japan have been detected in a sample of rainwater in Massachusetts, state health officials said today.
To read more, visit http://www.boston.com
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
In full meltdown. Radiation levels are 100,000 times normal level. Poisonous water leaking uncontrollably.
Is it time to panic yet? I guess it's too late for that now.
Is it time to panic yet? I guess it's too late for that now.
bueno
In a class by himself
No, but the numbers were wrong. That should be reported as well.TEPCO reported it. The media should ignore what TEPCO reports?oopsI wouldn't want to eat a picnic lunch in the reactor building, but so far, everything is not as bad as the media frenzy would have had you believe. Even the real radiation levels are not unexpected.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Doesn't it trouble you that the numbers were wrong? I mean, they didn't miss the number by a factor, but by several zeroes....These are supposed to be highly trained engineers here and their calculations are supposed to be credible to the nth degree, right?Still not in the "nothing to see here" camp, but there better be credible information to back up any claims that this is just background radiation, nothing more than flying across the atlantic, smoking a pack of cigs, and eating a few bananas on the way to the beach type radiation.
bueno
In a class by himself
Tired people aren't allowed to make math errors now? Even if the spike were real, what would the odds be of it being an outlier with no statistical significance. I've worked with geochemistry enough to know not to put a whole lot of weight on a single reading, especially when it is not supported by multiple readings around it.'Raiderfan32904 said:
Fennis
Footballguy
It was.'bueno said:No, but the numbers were wrong. That should be reported as well.'Fennis said:TEPCO reported it. The media should ignore what TEPCO reports?'bueno said:oopsI wouldn't want to eat a picnic lunch in the reactor building, but so far, everything is not as bad as the media frenzy would have had you believe. Even the real radiation levels are not unexpected.
bueno
In a class by himself
You could buy a scintillometer for your bunker, you know.Let's face it, I'm a bit jittery about these things... That said, I try to keep my paranoia pretty well suppressed in my real day-to-day life, then let it out in manic bursts here... That said, yesterday it came time for our regular "fish night" where I buy a whole fish and prepare it Thai style. I told my wife I have a decent sense of how radiation particles travel in the atmosphere and while I'm none-too-happy about it, I'm not hiding in the closet about that yet... But I have zero concept of how the massive amount of radiation dumped in the sea will behave in currents or even what's in there... Does this get swept into currents that go to the West Coast and up to Alaska. Regardless, I said to the wife that I don't feel comfortable eating fish for awhile... Just too hard to know where it came from and what it could have come into contact with... Surprisingly, no eye roll. She said that that actually made sense, so. No fish, indefinitely.
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
I heard the radiation will get diluted in the big ocean. I'm struggling with the same dilemma. So many different kinds of food can get contaminated and one can hold off buying fresh produce for only so long. Who knows, the radiation can get higher as time goes by. This is really cramping my life style.Let's face it, I'm a bit jittery about these things... That said, I try to keep my paranoia pretty well suppressed in my real day-to-day life, then let it out in manic bursts here... That said, yesterday it came time for our regular "fish night" where I buy a whole fish and prepare it Thai style. I told my wife I have a decent sense of how radiation particles travel in the atmosphere and while I'm none-too-happy about it, I'm not hiding in the closet about that yet... But I have zero concept of how the massive amount of radiation dumped in the sea will behave in currents or even what's in there... Does this get swept into currents that go to the West Coast and up to Alaska. Regardless, I said to the wife that I don't feel comfortable eating fish for awhile... Just too hard to know where it came from and what it could have come into contact with... Surprisingly, no eye roll. She said that that actually made sense, so
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
Rohn Jambo
Footballguy
We found some radiation from Japan in the rain water and unmelted snow here. They say it has to be 25 times higher before it will be harmful. No need to worry unless more of this stuff keeps coming.
Link
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St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
How long did you guys quit eating fish for after the Kursk went down?
