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The Death Penalty (2 Viewers)

God endorses the

Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
Of course the death penalty is wrong in theory and in practice. It is unevenly applied and racially imbalanced. It is huge government intrusion into civil liberty--what greater right is there to cede to the government than the right to live? So-called "conservatives" whine about how the government cant do anything right and then give that same government the power of life and death over them in a flawed procedural system of manmade laws run by flawed politicians (DA's and judges). And we really cant seem to do it without killing innocent citizens, which is horrifying.

On the other hand, I understand the simplistic emotional primitive tribal need to punish the outcasts who violate the tribal norms, and I am very pro-killing in general, so personally I dont worry about it too much. Sooner or later, it will be undeniably shown that we are blatantly and obviously executing innocent people and there will be a huge reaction against the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Your imbalance, like the incorrect "cost" argument, is about the courts. Not about the Death penalty.

We dont do away with all imprisonment because the sentences are all unequally applied.
Click to expand...
I know. That is why I said "in practice".
Click to expand...
That doesn't change a thing.

The Death penalty is proper. In theory or practice.

Expecting anything to be "perfect" as a needed outcome to remain in use is idiocy.

The COURTS are unequal. Fix that.

The death penalty and imprisonment, while unequal and imperfect, save countless more innocent lives then they ever ruin.
Click to expand...
What? The death penalty is "proper"? I am not sure what you are talking about. The government killing its own citizens is not "proper", although it can certainly be argued it is necessary at times. I didnt say anything needed to be "perfect", I just pointed out what a lame and flawed system the death penalty in practice is here. I am sorry that bugs you. You seem very emotionally invested in the primitive tribal notion of eye for an eye punishment that the death penalty represents. Interesting that the death penalty is the only archaic arbitrary leftover of those primitive times, when all other criminal punishments in our system are either incarceration or financial penalties.
Click to expand...
Actually God endorsed the eye for an eye policy/Death Penalty.

Exodus 21:12 (1611 King James Bible)

¶ He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
Nope...he had Gods back on all of his decisions. Jesus wanted to kill the killers. In fact I think he was the one who said something like ...If you talk back and disobey your parents you should be put to death.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jayrod said:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
No. He talked a group out of stoning an adulteress woman to death if that is what you are referring to. But he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.
Click to expand...
Woah, wait a minute. Unlike you, I don't know much about the New Testament. But I did read THAT part. Stoning an adulteress to death was the Law. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law, then why did He talk the crowd out of it? Doesn't he also say to her, "Go and sin no more"?

I don't see how you can reasonably argue that Jesus was in favor of the death penalty, given this story (and also how He died.).

 
The following 21 countries are believed by Amnesty International to have carried out executions in 2012: Afghanistan (14), Bangladesh (1), Belarus (3+), China (2000+), Gambia (9), India (1), Iran (314+), Iraq (129+), Japan (7), North Korea (6+), Pakistan (1), Palestine (6), Republic of China (6), Saudi Arabia (79+), Somalia (6+), South Sudan (5+), Sudan (19+), UAE (1), USA (43), Yemen (28+)

Obviously, nobody can compete with with China; they're the Cy Young of the death penalty. But you would think we could at least better the Saudis- what do they have that we don't?

One thing to be proud of: of the 20 countries on this list, we're the only one besides Japan that isn't a dictatorship! Take that, Europe!

 
timschochet said:
The following 21 countries are believed by Amnesty International to have carried out executions in 2012: Afghanistan (14), Bangladesh (1), Belarus (3+), China (2000+), Gambia (9), India (1), Iran (314+), Iraq (129+), Japan (7), North Korea (6+), Pakistan (1), Palestine (6), Republic of China (6), Saudi Arabia (79+), Somalia (6+), South Sudan (5+), Sudan (19+), UAE (1), USA (43), Yemen (28+)

Obviously, nobody can compete with with China; they're the Cy Young of the death penalty. But you would think we could at least better the Saudis- what do they have that we don't?

One thing to be proud of: of the 20 countries on this list, we're the only one besides Japan that isn't a dictatorship! Take that, Europe!
Click to expand...
That's a lot of good company for the US to be a part of. Let's trust them with the knowledge of all our private lives.

 
timschochet said:
Ditka Butkus said:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
Nope...he had Gods back on all of his decisions. Jesus wanted to kill the killers. In fact I think he was the one who said something like ...If you talk back and disobey your parents you should be put to death.
Click to expand...
link?
Click to expand...
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

- King James Version (1611) -

Close enough

3 in one dude the trinity.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
timschochet said:
Ditka Butkus said:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
Nope...he had Gods back on all of his decisions. Jesus wanted to kill the killers. In fact I think he was the one who said something like ...If you talk back and disobey your parents you should be put to death.
Click to expand...
link?
Click to expand...
And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

- King James Version (1611) -

Close enough

3 in one dude the trinity.
Click to expand...
Yeah, close enough. :lol:

 
Jayrod said:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
No. He talked a group out of stoning an adulteress woman to death if that is what you are referring to. But he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.
Click to expand...
I was curious about this account. Here's one persons take on it (in a column about Jesus and the death penalty. Spoiler alert: this guy thinks Jesus would have no problem with it):

But, you say, what about the women taken in the very act of adultery. This story is told in John 8:3-11

. The scribes and Pharisees sought to find something against Jesus. Their method of operation was to ask a question or present a problem in which either solution would hurt Jesus (see several instances in Matthew 23). In this case, they presented the woman taken in adultery and reminded Jesus, “Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?” (v.5). If He upheld the law, the meek and lowly Jesus would be portrayed as cruel. If He made an exception to the law, He would be in favor of breaking the law. In either case, His bond with the people would be broken.

However, Jesus did the unexpected. He stooped down and wrote with His finger on the ground. What He wrote, we are not told. When the Pharisees insisted on an answer, He said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her” (v.7) and continued writing.

One interesting fact about this story: only the woman was brought. No man was accused. Yet, adultery is definitely a two-person sin. Is it possible that Jesus wrote Leviticus 20:10

on the ground? It says, “And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.” Notice, both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death. Not one, but both.

At any rate, the consciences of the accusers began to accuse their own hearts. One by one, beginning with the eldest, they slipped away until no man was there to accuse the woman. With no accusers, there was no required penalty. Jesus had used the occasion to point out the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees while at the same time showing His love to the unloved. He told the woman to go and sin no more.
Click to expand...
http://www.learnthebible.org/would-jesus-oppose-the-death-penalty.html

 
timschochet said:
The following 21 countries are believed by Amnesty International to have carried out executions in 2012: Afghanistan (14), Bangladesh (1), Belarus (3+), China (2000+), Gambia (9), India (1), Iran (314+), Iraq (129+), Japan (7), North Korea (6+), Pakistan (1), Palestine (6), Republic of China (6), Saudi Arabia (79+), Somalia (6+), South Sudan (5+), Sudan (19+), UAE (1), USA (43), Yemen (28+)

Obviously, nobody can compete with with China; they're the Cy Young of the death penalty. But you would think we could at least better the Saudis- what do they have that we don't?

One thing to be proud of: of the 20 countries on this list, we're the only one besides Japan that isn't a dictatorship! Take that, Europe!
Click to expand...
It must be a huge deterrent- China has a low murder rate!

 
timschochet said:
Jayrod said:
timschochet said:
Wasn't Jesus opposed to the death penalty?
Click to expand...
No. He talked a group out of stoning an adulteress woman to death if that is what you are referring to. But he came to fulfill the law, not abolish it.
Click to expand...
Woah, wait a minute. Unlike you, I don't know much about the New Testament. But I did read THAT part. Stoning an adulteress to death was the Law. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law, then why did He talk the crowd out of it? Doesn't he also say to her, "Go and sin no more"?

I don't see how you can reasonably argue that Jesus was in favor of the death penalty, given this story (and also how He died.).
Click to expand...
He didn't "talk the crowd out of it" per se, he simply wrote something in the dirt and all of the accusers left. He did say go and sin no more and that he did not condemn her himself.

And as far as Jesus' death, it was exactly as he planned it. He could have stopped it at any time, but chose to die in such a manner.

 
lod01 said:
lod01, on 19 Jun 2014 - 2:48 PM, said:Good week so far. 3 executed in 24 hours. Now that's what I'm talking about. Money saved. :thumbup:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-executions-across-u-south-mark-first-since-010235829.html
Click to expand...
But one of them was Marcus Wellons, who surely redeemed himself from these actions:

The autopsy revealed that the victim died from manual strangulation, which in itself would have taken several minutes. The autopsy also showed that Wellons had attempted to strangle the victim with a ligature, possibly a telephone cord, and that he had bruised her and cut her face and ear with a sharp object. The evidence suggested that Wellons had dragged or otherwise forcibly moved the victim from the kitchen up the stairs to Tony's bedroom. Finally, the autopsy revealed a ######l tear and copious amounts of what appeared to be seminal fluid within the victim's ######. She had defensive wounds to her hands, and her blouse was stained with her own blood.
Although a not guilty plea was entered for Wellons, he did not dispute his participation in the crimes.
Click to expand...
 
Gawain said:
lod01 said:
lod01, on 19 Jun 2014 - 2:48 PM, said:Good week so far. 3 executed in 24 hours. Now that's what I'm talking about. Money saved. :thumbup:

http://news.yahoo.com/three-executions-across-u-south-mark-first-since-010235829.html
Click to expand...
But one of them was Marcus Wellons, who surely redeemed himself from these actions:

The autopsy revealed that the victim died from manual strangulation, which in itself would have taken several minutes. The autopsy also showed that Wellons had attempted to strangle the victim with a ligature, possibly a telephone cord, and that he had bruised her and cut her face and ear with a sharp object. The evidence suggested that Wellons had dragged or otherwise forcibly moved the victim from the kitchen up the stairs to Tony's bedroom. Finally, the autopsy revealed a ######l tear and copious amounts of what appeared to be seminal fluid within the victim's ######. She had defensive wounds to her hands, and her blouse was stained with her own blood.
Although a not guilty plea was entered for Wellons, he did not dispute his participation in the crimes.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Combined they had probably 100 years of prison left. That is a lot of $ saved. Say 35K per year if they were housed in max security. That's $3.5 million. If you calculate based on death row's $90k/year average, it's $9 Million saved. Time to ramp it up.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
God endorses the

Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
Of course the death penalty is wrong in theory and in practice. It is unevenly applied and racially imbalanced. It is huge government intrusion into civil liberty--what greater right is there to cede to the government than the right to live? So-called "conservatives" whine about how the government cant do anything right and then give that same government the power of life and death over them in a flawed procedural system of manmade laws run by flawed politicians (DA's and judges). And we really cant seem to do it without killing innocent citizens, which is horrifying.

On the other hand, I understand the simplistic emotional primitive tribal need to punish the outcasts who violate the tribal norms, and I am very pro-killing in general, so personally I dont worry about it too much. Sooner or later, it will be undeniably shown that we are blatantly and obviously executing innocent people and there will be a huge reaction against the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Your imbalance, like the incorrect "cost" argument, is about the courts. Not about the Death penalty.

We dont do away with all imprisonment because the sentences are all unequally applied.
Click to expand...
I know. That is why I said "in practice".
Click to expand...
That doesn't change a thing.

The Death penalty is proper. In theory or practice.

Expecting anything to be "perfect" as a needed outcome to remain in use is idiocy.

The COURTS are unequal. Fix that.

The death penalty and imprisonment, while unequal and imperfect, save countless more innocent lives then they ever ruin.
Click to expand...
What? The death penalty is "proper"? I am not sure what you are talking about. The government killing its own citizens is not "proper", although it can certainly be argued it is necessary at times. I didnt say anything needed to be "perfect", I just pointed out what a lame and flawed system the death penalty in practice is here. I am sorry that bugs you. You seem very emotionally invested in the primitive tribal notion of eye for an eye punishment that the death penalty represents. Interesting that the death penalty is the only archaic arbitrary leftover of those primitive times, when all other criminal punishments in our system are either incarceration or financial penalties.
Click to expand...
Actually God endorsed the eye for an eye policy/Death Penalty.

Exodus 21:12 (1611 King James Bible)

¶ He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
Click to expand...
As if your little book of fables should decide anything.

I oppose the death penalty because I don't want the state killing people.

Have you ever been to the post office or the DMV? The gummint can't get anything right, and we're going to assume they'll never execute an innocent man?

Sure.

 
Jack White said:
Ditka Butkus said:
God endorses the

Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
Of course the death penalty is wrong in theory and in practice. It is unevenly applied and racially imbalanced. It is huge government intrusion into civil liberty--what greater right is there to cede to the government than the right to live? So-called "conservatives" whine about how the government cant do anything right and then give that same government the power of life and death over them in a flawed procedural system of manmade laws run by flawed politicians (DA's and judges). And we really cant seem to do it without killing innocent citizens, which is horrifying.

On the other hand, I understand the simplistic emotional primitive tribal need to punish the outcasts who violate the tribal norms, and I am very pro-killing in general, so personally I dont worry about it too much. Sooner or later, it will be undeniably shown that we are blatantly and obviously executing innocent people and there will be a huge reaction against the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Your imbalance, like the incorrect "cost" argument, is about the courts. Not about the Death penalty.

We dont do away with all imprisonment because the sentences are all unequally applied.
Click to expand...
I know. That is why I said "in practice".
Click to expand...
That doesn't change a thing.

The Death penalty is proper. In theory or practice.

Expecting anything to be "perfect" as a needed outcome to remain in use is idiocy.

The COURTS are unequal. Fix that.

The death penalty and imprisonment, while unequal and imperfect, save countless more innocent lives then they ever ruin.
Click to expand...
What? The death penalty is "proper"? I am not sure what you are talking about. The government killing its own citizens is not "proper", although it can certainly be argued it is necessary at times. I didnt say anything needed to be "perfect", I just pointed out what a lame and flawed system the death penalty in practice is here. I am sorry that bugs you. You seem very emotionally invested in the primitive tribal notion of eye for an eye punishment that the death penalty represents. Interesting that the death penalty is the only archaic arbitrary leftover of those primitive times, when all other criminal punishments in our system are either incarceration or financial penalties.
Click to expand...
Actually God endorsed the eye for an eye policy/Death Penalty.

Exodus 21:12 (1611 King James Bible)

¶ He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
Click to expand...
As if your little book of fables should decide anything.

I oppose the death penalty because I don't want the state killing people.

Have you ever been to the post office or the DMV? The gummint can't get anything right, and we're going to assume they'll never execute an innocent man?

Sure.
Click to expand...
So who would you be ok with killing people..the Feds?

 
Some future entrants (I hope) to this thread:

http://gawker.com/no-bull####-grandma-fights-off-three-teens-trying-to-st-1669418563

Indianapolis police are searching for three teenagers who allegedly left 67-year-old Kay Kise with broken bones, bleeding on her brain, and an eye swollen shut after the group allegedly tried to steal the grandmother's van at gunpoin

 
Cliff Clavin said:
Some future entrants (I hope) to this thread:

http://gawker.com/no-bull####-grandma-fights-off-three-teens-trying-to-st-1669418563

Indianapolis police are searching for three teenagers who allegedly left 67-year-old Kay Kise with broken bones, bleeding on her brain, and an eye swollen shut after the group allegedly tried to steal the grandmother's van at gunpoin
Click to expand...
We could execute those 3 losers right now and by midnight no one would even miss them.

 
lod01 said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Some future entrants (I hope) to this thread:

http://gawker.com/no-bull####-grandma-fights-off-three-teens-trying-to-st-1669418563

Indianapolis police are searching for three teenagers who allegedly left 67-year-old Kay Kise with broken bones, bleeding on her brain, and an eye swollen shut after the group allegedly tried to steal the grandmother's van at gunpoin
Click to expand...
We could execute those 3 losers right now and by midnight no one would even miss them.
Click to expand...
You could execute 3 million losers right now and nobody would miss them.

 
Zow said:
This thread is seriously creepy. The bloodlust you guys share, some in the name of god, is downright disturbing.
Click to expand...
Bloodlust... hmmm... yeah... kind of being like a meat eater.... just give me the end result; just don't tell me how it's done.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Jack White said:
Ditka Butkus said:
God endorses the

Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
BigSteelThrill said:
Todd Andrews said:
Of course the death penalty is wrong in theory and in practice. It is unevenly applied and racially imbalanced. It is huge government intrusion into civil liberty--what greater right is there to cede to the government than the right to live? So-called "conservatives" whine about how the government cant do anything right and then give that same government the power of life and death over them in a flawed procedural system of manmade laws run by flawed politicians (DA's and judges). And we really cant seem to do it without killing innocent citizens, which is horrifying.

On the other hand, I understand the simplistic emotional primitive tribal need to punish the outcasts who violate the tribal norms, and I am very pro-killing in general, so personally I dont worry about it too much. Sooner or later, it will be undeniably shown that we are blatantly and obviously executing innocent people and there will be a huge reaction against the death penalty.
Click to expand...
Your imbalance, like the incorrect "cost" argument, is about the courts. Not about the Death penalty.

We dont do away with all imprisonment because the sentences are all unequally applied.
Click to expand...
I know. That is why I said "in practice".
Click to expand...
That doesn't change a thing.

The Death penalty is proper. In theory or practice.

Expecting anything to be "perfect" as a needed outcome to remain in use is idiocy.

The COURTS are unequal. Fix that.

The death penalty and imprisonment, while unequal and imperfect, save countless more innocent lives then they ever ruin.
Click to expand...
What? The death penalty is "proper"? I am not sure what you are talking about. The government killing its own citizens is not "proper", although it can certainly be argued it is necessary at times. I didnt say anything needed to be "perfect", I just pointed out what a lame and flawed system the death penalty in practice is here. I am sorry that bugs you. You seem very emotionally invested in the primitive tribal notion of eye for an eye punishment that the death penalty represents. Interesting that the death penalty is the only archaic arbitrary leftover of those primitive times, when all other criminal punishments in our system are either incarceration or financial penalties.
Click to expand...
Actually God endorsed the eye for an eye policy/Death Penalty.

Exodus 21:12 (1611 King James Bible)

¶ He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
Click to expand...
As if your little book of fables should decide anything.

I oppose the death penalty because I don't want the state killing people.

Have you ever been to the post office or the DMV? The gummint can't get anything right, and we're going to assume they'll never execute an innocent man?

Sure.
Click to expand...
So who would you be ok with killing people..the Feds?
Click to expand...
The state is the feds.

The only just killing is one done in self-defense or defense of another.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
lod01 said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Some future entrants (I hope) to this thread:

http://gawker.com/no-bull####-grandma-fights-off-three-teens-trying-to-st-1669418563

Indianapolis police are searching for three teenagers who allegedly left 67-year-old Kay Kise with broken bones, bleeding on her brain, and an eye swollen shut after the group allegedly tried to steal the grandmother's van at gunpoin
Click to expand...
We could execute those 3 losers right now and by midnight no one would even miss them.
Click to expand...
You could execute 3 million losers right now and nobody would miss them.
Click to expand...
Is that the number of cops in the US?

 
Jack White said:
Ditka Butkus said:
lod01 said:
Cliff Clavin said:
Some future entrants (I hope) to this thread:

http://gawker.com/no-bull####-grandma-fights-off-three-teens-trying-to-st-1669418563

Indianapolis police are searching for three teenagers who allegedly left 67-year-old Kay Kise with broken bones, bleeding on her brain, and an eye swollen shut after the group allegedly tried to steal the grandmother's van at gunpoin
Click to expand...
We could execute those 3 losers right now and by midnight no one would even miss them.
Click to expand...
You could execute 3 million losers right now and nobody would miss them.
Click to expand...
Is that the number of cops in the US?
Click to expand...
Damn, I really don't know who is making a worse argument here. It's a close one.

 
Florida and Oklahoma step up and do the right thing. :thumbup:

Florida executed Johnny Kormondy, 42, for the fatal 1993 shooting of Pensacola banker Gary McAdams and the rape of his wife, according to the state Department of Corrections.

Oklahoma put to death convicted murderer and rapist Charles Warner on Thursday, its first execution since a faulty lethal injection last April.

Warner, 47, said he was poked five times and was quoted as saying: "It feels like acid," as he lay on the Oklahoma death chamber gurney with IVs in his arms - quit your whining you wuss, you'll be dead in a minute anyway.

 
Odd question: Can't they just give the convicts the same thing they gave that chick with terminal cancer a couple months back? Why was that humane, but giving the equivalent to murders inhumane?

 
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