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13 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

may be the time to try and get ingram if you are a kamara owner, with most bye weeks over he's a great insurance policy and better than whatever RB3 is sitting on your bench

I was thinking the same - buy insurance!

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2 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

That’s what I mean by sample size. 

There will be games where it’s 1a/b

there will be Ingram games (like his 1st week back)

there will be Kamara games.

we went through this literally every single week last year - it’s sooooooooooo redundant at this point. 

Oh yeah I’m not arguing that Kamara takes over and Ingram is an afterthought.  I’m just wondering if we are now where Kamara is more 1 to Ingram’s 2 vs the more even split from mid-season last year.  

Probably splitting hairs at this point but what else we got to do on here?  ?

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Just now, Andrew74 said:

Oh yeah I’m not arguing that Kamara takes over and Ingram is an afterthought.  I’m just wondering if we are now where Kamara is more 1 to Ingram’s 2 vs the more even split from mid-season last year.  

Probably splitting hairs at this point but what else we got to do on here?  ?

lol - yeah, it’s a fair question/observation. 

I just don’t know tnat we’ve seen enough to truly know the answer yet. Feels like one of those situations where we look back at the end of the year and figure that out. 

And of course an injury to either would change the entire future dynamic. 

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Seems likely that this is more of a v Washington week for Ingram. Cincy's defense is brutal, and on the road the Saints are likely to be cautious. Coming off an emotional win they may opt for the pound-and-ground, which suits Ingram. Kamara is still obviously an RB1, but owners would be wise to temper their expectations this week.

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Mark Ingram has been every other week since his return.  

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2 hours ago, Cowboysfan8 said:

I hate Payton

I’m ok with him. I needed a big game from Ingram & he delivered. :pickle:

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33 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I’m ok with him. I needed a big game from Ingram & he delivered. :pickle:

Same here

When I posted that it was the Kamara show lol

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5 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Queue Ingram/Kamara debate - Lather...rinse...repeat. 

I do t think there is much debate.  Kamara is the RB1.  But Ingram will get touches. I expect Kamara to be the main guy in close games.  This script was always going to be good for Ingram.  

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1 hour ago, zoonation said:

I do t think there is much debate.  Kamara is the RB1.  But Ingram will get touches. I expect Kamara to be the main guy in close games.  This script was always going to be good for Ingram.  

I don’t see it as having anything to do with close games. (ETA - you had a typo I replied to. I now realize you agree it’s RBBC

It’s RBBC. That’s it. Simple. 

Some weeks they’ll both eat. Some weeks it’ll be Ingram. Some weeks Kamara. 

Close games they should get a pretty even distribution. 

If they fall behind, it favors Kamara. Playing with a lead, probably Ingram. 

GL is a crap shoot. 

And I said all of this last week. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

This will be the same every week. Some weeks Ingram will outscore Kamara. Some weeks Kamara will outscore Ingram. Their usage has no rhyme nor reason to it. Mix & match, they both catch the ball, they’re both good in short yardage. 

It’s RB1A & RB1B. 

Which it was last year. 

These are both terrific players. The Saints will use them both. Fantasy owners will hate it. 

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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46 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I don’t see it as having anything to do with close games. (ETA - you had a typo I replied to. I now realize you agree it’s RBBC

It’s RBBC. That’s it. Simple. 

Some weeks they’ll both eat. Some weeks it’ll be Ingram. Some weeks Kamara. 

Close games they should get a pretty even distribution. 

If they fall behind, it favors Kamara. Playing with a lead, probably Ingram. 

GL is a crap shoot. 

And I said all of this last week. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

This will be the same every week. Some weeks Ingram will outscore Kamara. Some weeks Kamara will outscore Ingram. Their usage has no rhyme nor reason to it. Mix & match, they both catch the ball, they’re both good in short yardage. 

It’s RB1A & RB1B. 

Which it was last year. 

These are both terrific players. The Saints will use them both. Fantasy owners will hate it. 

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Why hate it? A lot of us accurately predicted this week's outcome. Ingram is an excellent RB2, it's not a matter of "Ingram v Kamara". You may as well say "Ingram v McCoy", makes as much sense.

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6 minutes ago, Truebluey said:

Why hate it? A lot of us accurately predicted this week's outcome. Ingram is an excellent RB2, it's not a matter of "Ingram v Kamara". You may as well say "Ingram v McCoy", makes as much sense.

I don’t hate it. I never said I hated it. I said fantasy owners seem to hate it. 

I love it. I have Ingram and love that they use him a lot. If I win this week it’s because of him. 

You seem to have misunderstood. I am one of the ones you’re referring to who specifically said this week felt like an Ingram week. 

I was posting above sarcastically that the debate would repeat. Because every week one of them has a big week & everyone starts arguing again whether Ingram is worthless or not.

Edited by Hot Sauce Guy

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50 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I don’t hate it. I never said I hated it. 

Wait wat? :unsure:

I love it. I have Ingram and love that they use him a lot. If I win this week it’s because of him. 

You seem to have misunderstood. I am one of the ones you’re referring to who specifically said this week felt like an Ingram week. 

I was posting above sarcastically that the debate would repeat. Because every week one of them has a big week & everyone starts arguing again whether Ingram is worthless or not.

OK perhaps I misunderstood.  Reading back over some of the previous posts, we were debating how high Ingram's floor/ceiling was today. I think you have to make that analysis independent of Kamara, because they are used very differently. Ingram is certainly not "worthless", and it's also not a matter of whether Ingram or Kamara score more points in any given week.  You always start Kamara.  Whether you start Ingram (or flex him) depends on the matchup, although as you say, the goal-line carries can be random. The previous 3 weeks to today he scored 6, 12, and 2 points, and I only started him in one of those games because his matchups looked poor on paper.

His matchups until week 16 indicate that you will really only start him with confidence in weeks 12 and 14 (round 1 playoffs).  Championship week will be a real test of fortitude for Ingram owners.

11. PHI     30th most points allowed to RBs

12.  vs.  ATL  9th most

13.  at   DA   23rd

14.  at   TB  6th

15.  at  CAR  26th

16.  vs. PIT  29

Edited by Truebluey

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I don’t see it as having anything to do with close games. (ETA - you had a typo I replied to. I now realize you agree it’s RBBC

It’s RBBC. That’s it. Simple. 

Some weeks they’ll both eat. Some weeks it’ll be Ingram. Some weeks Kamara. 

Close games they should get a pretty even distribution. 

If they fall behind, it favors Kamara. Playing with a lead, probably Ingram. 

GL is a crap shoot. 

And I said all of this last week. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

This will be the same every week. Some weeks Ingram will outscore Kamara. Some weeks Kamara will outscore Ingram. Their usage has no rhyme nor reason to it. Mix & match, they both catch the ball, they’re both good in short yardage. 

It’s RB1A & RB1B. 

Which it was last year. 

These are both terrific players. The Saints will use them both. Fantasy owners will hate it. 

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Can you stop this?

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2 hours ago, Truebluey said:

OK perhaps I misunderstood.  Reading back over some of the previous posts, we were debating how high Ingram's floor/ceiling was today. I think you have to make that analysis independent of Kamara, because they are used very differently. Ingram is certainly not "worthless", and it's also not a matter of whether Ingram or Kamara score more points in any given week.  You always start Kamara.  Whether you start Ingram (or flex him) depends on the matchup, although as you say, the goal-line carries can be random. The previous 3 weeks to today he scored 6, 12, and 2 points, and I only started him in one of those games because his matchups looked poor on paper.

His matchups until week 16 indicate that you will really only start him with confidence in weeks 12 and 14 (round 1 playoffs).  Championship week will be a real test of fortitude for Ingram owners.

11. PHI     30th most points allowed to RBs

12.  vs.  ATL  9th most

13.  at   DA   23rd

14.  at   TB  6th

15.  at  CAR  26th

16.  vs. PIT  29

I wouldn’t be too concerned about that eagles matchup right about now

Edited by Skeletore Eh

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37 minutes ago, mr roboto said:

Can you stop this?

No, it says right there. Repeat. It’s literallt in the instructions. 

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2 hours ago, Truebluey said:

11. PHI     30th most points allowed to RBs

12.  vs.  ATL  9th most

13.  at   DA   23rd

14.  at   TB  6th

15.  at  CAR  26th

16.  vs. PIT  29

Not real worried about PHI after tonight. 

Honestly all those defenses are beatable on the ground. 

Stats like that are a funny thing. For example, who’d the Eagles have at RB tonight? Smallwood mostly - not exactly a world beater. 

So Dallas likely looks better against the run with that game incorporated. 

Whenwver skmeone posts up “allows x to opponent in X category” it feels like we’re only seeing a slice of a more complex picture. 

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12 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

Not real worried about PHI after tonight. 

Honestly all those defenses are beatable on the ground. 

Stats like that are a funny thing.

Whenwver someone posts up “allows x to opponent in X category” it feels like we’re only seeing a slice of a more complex picture. 

 

Agreed. And at this time of the year, it can just take one, or two, injuries to dramatically alter a defense.

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Kamara is a must start, regardless of matchup, RB1.   

Ingram is a matchup dependent RB2.   I do not just plug and play him.  In fact, this I was the first week I started him.  

I think he has some good matchups coming up, he will be in my lineup a lot. 

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On 11/5/2018 at 12:51 PM, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I were a betting man, I’d say Ingram is the better bet for production in the Bengals & Falcons games, while Kamara should fare better against the Eagles & Cowboys. But again, any given Sunday. 

Thoughts on tonight?  Starting to 2nd guess putting in Michel over Ingram.  :unsure:

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3 minutes ago, Peak said:

Thoughts on tonight?  Starting to 2nd guess putting in Michel over Ingram.  :unsure:

That’s a tough call. Ingram has been on fire and he’s getting 2-3 extremely valuable targets in the screen game each week (except last week).

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I’m starting Ingram in what should be a shootout. I’d be THANKFUL for 80+ total yards and a TD!

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34 minutes ago, ahartig said:

That’s a tough call. Ingram has been on fire and he’s getting 2-3 extremely valuable targets in the screen game each week (except last week).

Right?! Im thinking it'll be a shootout with ATL, but one that may lean towards Ingram's abilities.  Need the win this week, so it's do I go with safe (Michel) or hi risk/reward (Ingram)?  

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... I see little coming out of Sony Michel, unless I'm missing some recent Patriots injuries and he's the last RB standing or something.

Ingram should outpoint Michel in a walk. Wouldn't think twice if I were choosing between the two.

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16 minutes ago, Doug B said:

... I see little coming out of Sony Michel, unless I'm missing some recent Patriots injuries and he's the last RB standing or something.

Ingram should outpoint Michel in a walk. Wouldn't think twice if I were choosing between the two.

It’s still the white / Michel show. 

Patterosn is a special teamed and they released Barner. Week 10 was an aberration in my book, Michel was coming off his injury and they still gave him 13 touches in a negative game script. 

I think Sony is a lock for 20+ touches in a game the pats should dominate. Ingram is a lock for 12-15 touches. It’s a tossup really, with Michel having a better chance of a TD IMO

Edited by ahartig

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2 hours ago, Peak said:

Thoughts on tonight?  Starting to 2nd guess putting in Michel over Ingram.  :unsure:

I think he’s a solid play so long as the falcons keep the game close. 

Michele is a tricky call since White is so involved. 

Of course Kamara can take over a game too, so pick your poison. 

I’m rolling with Ingram because ive got Gurley on the BYE, so we’ll see what happens. 

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@Peak - another real possibility is that the Saints get up a couple of scores, which probably sets up as a jackpot for Ingram. 

Realized I was thinking more about his floor earlier - if the falcons are up, Ingram might suffer for it. 

If it’s close, Ingram will eat, but even split.

saints go up, I love Ingram. 

What’s funny is it’s almost the same for Michele. Game script will determine usage. 

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1 hour ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

What’s funny is it’s almost the same for Michele. Game script will determine usag

Exactly my thoughts. It's what makes this game fun and frustrating. Thinking I'll go with the hi risk/reward with Ingram. This seems like his kind of matchup. 

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5 minutes ago, ahartig said:

Kamara, Thomas, and Ingram owners were all underwhelmed. One of those games i guess 

Honestly felt like Payton/Brees we’re padding Drew’s mvp resume by throwing all tds to undrafted guys— I’m sure that’s not totally the case but on two of the goalline tds, Thomas was wide open and he’s usually the first read.

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33 minutes ago, ahartig said:

Kamara, Thomas, and Ingram owners were all underwhelmed. One of those games i guess 

They were toying with the Falcons.  It seemed Brees was trying to target every practice squad player on the team.

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Interesting game. Not great for people who roster Ingram, but Brees was at masterful heights.  

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13 hours ago, packer_junkie said:

Honestly felt like Payton/Brees we’re padding Drew’s mvp resume by throwing all tds to undrafted guys— I’m sure that’s not totally the case but on two of the goalline tds, Thomas was wide open and he’s usually the first read.

That's sure what it looked like. 

It's amazing that NFL games against good teams can be just practice for Payton and Brees.

We need more games against the Rams!

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12 hours ago, rockaction said:

Interesting game. Not great for people who roster Ingram, but Brees was at masterful heights.  

Ingram won me last week.

i take the good with the bad. Kamara didn’t light the world on fire either. That was the Drew Brees for MVP campaign.  :shrug:

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16 hours ago, packer_junkie said:

Honestly felt like Payton/Brees we’re padding Drew’s mvp resume by throwing all tds to undrafted guys— I’m sure that’s not totally the case but on two of the goalline tds, Thomas was wide open and he’s usually the first read.

 

2 hours ago, Truebluey said:

That's sure what it looked like. 

It's amazing that NFL games against good teams can be just practice for Payton and Brees.

We need more games against the Rams!

Or Brees just threw to the open guy. 

But risking home field and a better shot at a Super Bowl for an MVP trophy also seems like a good strategy.

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The most plausible theory is that Payton and Brees hate our fantasy teams.

Or throwing to the open guy.

But definitely one of those.

Edited by Chaka
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2 hours ago, Chaka said:

The most plausible theory is that Payton and Brees hate our fantasy teams.

Or throwing to the open guy.

But definitely one of those.

That's a nailed it in earnestness for sure. 

Nailed it. 

Did your head 'splode?  

Nah, seriously, those were his reads, that's what he did. There was nothing fantasy-specific about it. 

Reminds me of the Patriots from years past. That's a good team in NO, and why they gave up a draft pick for Bridgewater even though he might be a free agent at the end of the year. They're Super Bowl contenders, for sure. Their defense's DVOA, the weak part of their team, wound up seventh last year. That's sick with that offense to go with it.  

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Schefter says Gordon convinced his coaches to give him a shot tomorrow. Let's hope he doesn't hurt that hammy before the playoffs.

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On 11/22/2018 at 11:41 AM, Doug B said:

Ingram should outpoint Michel in a walk. Wouldn't think twice if I were choosing between the two.

Yeesh. Whiffed on that call. Legit hadn’t been impressed with Michel before.

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Just now, leave a whisper said:

Ingram or Cook is my weekly RB2 choice that I have picked wrong on for a month now  .......

Same problem, but with Gordon out next week, at least I won't have to pick which one to play. 

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Quote

Impending free agent Mark Ingram wants to stay with the Saints.

"I was drafted here. I met my wife here. My children were born here," Ingram said. "I hope we win a Super Bowl and hopefully everything works out. It’s a business, and I hope everything works out. I love it here." It is a nice sentiment, but as Ingram points out, it is a business, and it is more likely a team which does not have Alvin Kamara atop the depth chart will be willing to pay this spring.

Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune 

Jan 15 - 9:46 AM

 

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10 hours ago, Faust said:

Impending free agent Mark Ingram wants to stay with the Saints.

"I was drafted here. I met my wife here. My children were born here," Ingram said. "I hope we win a Super Bowl and hopefully everything works out. It’s a business, and I hope everything works out. I love it here." It is a nice sentiment, but as Ingram points out, it is a business, and it is more likely a team which does not have Alvin Kamara atop the depth chart will be willing to pay this spring.

Source: New Orleans Times-Picayune 

What else is he supposed to say at this point.  But when Houston offers him 3 years and 25 million, while New Orleans offers him 2 years and 7 million, suddenly it will be "Thanks for the memories New Orleans!".

He will follow the money just like about 90% of the NFL players do.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

Edited by dagwood
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