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This + playing from behind (GB & Houston's high powered O's and good D's) + short training camp + rookie = RB2-RB3 this year. The cream will rise to the top, gotta give it time to develop. Anyone that drafted Ingram in a redraft to be a RB1/RB2 was, dare I say it, a bit foolish.
Well, he's received 55% of the carries so far. I don't really care how often he is on the field so long as he gets plenty of carries, although it would be a shame if it got to the point where defenses know they are going to run the ball when he is the game ala Ryan Mathews last year.Disclaimer: I don't own him in any of my serious leagues, but I am trying to buy low.
So then you also agree that FBG was, dare I say it, a bit foolish for recommending Ingram as a RB1/RB2 in redraft leagues?
FBG's loved him. I don't know if they have backed off that any since the preseason. But anyone who did "Waldman's" upsidedown drafting, probably ended up with Ingram as a RB1 or RB2. The assumption was that if FBG's was right, they'd have a sleeper RB to anchor a powerhouse receiving corp. It has been frustrating for Ingram owners, but I think last week was a glimpse of things to come. He had no training camp or OTA's and it's tough for rookie RB's to acclimate. Had this been a normal offseason, Ingram would have broken out by now. I am tempering optimism, but I think he's only going to improve from here on out and find a higher steady floor in all formats.
Probably best to wait until the year is out to criticize them. I don't think anyone knew what the carry split would be. Also, the early games were against passing offenses. Get them in games where they aren't in shoot-outs and maybe things will get better for Ingram. We've seen situations (Deangelo) where players start the season out poorly and then explode. Ingram very well could do that.The problem with Ingram is not a matter of him looking crappy. It's a matter of him not getting the ball. He's had some very impressive runs, despite the fact that he is a guy that probably needs it 15-20 carries a game to really become super effective.I called for 1000-1200 yards and 15 touchdowns. While that was very optimistic, he had goalline carries in week 1, should have had a goalline carry in week 2 (when sproles stepped out) and then got a touchdown in week 3. It's an explosive offense, and you would think he'll be given plenty of opportunities in games where they are blowing people out, which just hasn't happened yet.I still think 1,000 yards and 12 td's is possible, but much will depend on what Payton decides to do. In dynasty purposes, this is a great time to get Ingram. I know I went out and acquired him in one league just for that reason. In re-draft....yeah, I'd be a little nervous. But his upside is still off the charts.
If they are right 90% of the time and wrong 10% of the time, that is still a phenomenal hit rate. Just because you happened to get caught up in the 10% of the time they may be wrong isn't worth the #####ing and moaning you have done in this thread. I don't see any posts from you congratulating them when they help you the other 90% of the time... (the 90% and 10% numbers are random and not based in reality, but I'm guessing their hit rate is far above their miss rate regardless).As for Ingram, I think it depends on what the makeup of the rest of your team is. In redraft, I think that if you have a deep roster, he is one of the single best buy low players you currently could target, as I think he will have a very strong finish to the season (think something along the lines of Anthony Thomas' rookie season with the Bears). If you have a weak roster and currently own Ingram, you may need to look to trade him for less than I think he is worth for more short term production, as I think his best production won't come until at least the 2nd half of the season.If you play in keeper or dynasty leagues, I am still 100% convinced he is as strong a buy candidate as it gets. I am still a full on believer in his talent and expect him to perform as a top 5-8 RB for many, many years. If you can get him for anything less than that price because he has started a little slowly (at least slowly to those expecting him to explode out of the gate, which probably shouldn't have been the expectation in the first place), then consider it a gift and jump all over it. Everything I have seen from him (and I have watched every snap he has played this year) tells me that the talent is there and you see it in flashes. He is the type of player that needs 15 or more carries a game to truly be game breaking, but that time will come so I think the best advice is to grab him before it gets here.'GreenNGold said:
Toying with playing Ingram instead of the Foster/Tate headache this week. "Without confidence," as it were.
Last time I checked they dont play GB or HOU again this yr, and the next 6 weeks are: JAX, CAR, TB, IND, STL, TB. The Saints might not be playing from behind, at any point, in any of those games.
Been like that since their opening Thursday night game from what I've seen...I believe he has 2 or 3 targets in the passing game so far..
I believe they started throwing to him last week for the first time. LBs stopped him for zero but at least they tried.
They tried, but eventually some of the blame needs to start being placed on Ingram as well. Lots of people are saying they always stack against the run every time Ingram is in the game, so shouldn't these passes have caught the defense off guard, or, is he just not as capable as Sproles and Thomas? Players that produce actually produce at some point despite the circumstances. Sproles and Thomas are both putting up better numbers, and I'm sure defenses were keying in on them on some of those plays too. I'm holding out hope for Ingram but the time for excuses is running out fast.
I don't necessarily disagree, but a sample size of 2 catches on 2 passes isn't enough to judge one way or the other. I thought he produced pretty well with what he was given...only 9 carries but 40 yards and a touch..
You seem bitter for some reason? Did you draft Ingram with overblown expectations? The guy is a rookie, who just scored a TD in his 3rd NFL game. The fact that he is seeing the field when the Saints have two very explosive, very capable backs says something about their view of Ingram.I'd just like to add, I didn't buy into a lot of the hype here, and didn't watch a lot of Ingram at Alabama. That said, I've seen the majority of his NFL carries. From a unbiased standpoint, he looks like he lacks patience sometimes which I attribute to nerves and the desire to do too much with his touches, but the majority of his runs showcase vision and short speed that most NFL running backs just don't have. He will be a fine pro.
Yes, I drafted Ingram with the expectations that FBG gave me, which so far have turned out to be overblown, which I think is the cause of most of the bitterness in this thread. I am still trying to be patient and hopeful, but the excuses most people are making for him tend to be more delusional than based on reality.
Right now, he is the 37th rated running back in non-PPR leagues. One big game, he is right into that 20-25 sweet spot where FBG had him ranked. This isn't a situation like Matthews last year, who everyone expected to take over for LT and be the bell cow. Everyone knew the situation Ingram was coming into, but his talent is very apparent and the way the Saints have been using him speaks volumes about their faith in his talent. Barring injury, he will finish better than the 25th ranked RB this year, and he has the potential to do even more.
lol. How ridiculous can you get?
I think Ingram would have been a poor selection as a RB1 in a redraft league, but I'm still confident that he'll be a top 20 rb this year, so rb2 is very possible. His numbers can only go up.
Upside-down drafting is about quantity, not quality, at RB. The goal is to draft multiple high upside guys and hope that you get 1 or 2 productive RBs out of it. Anyone that went upside-down and was assuming Ingram would be a RB1 missed the point.
Very well said. I did this last year with Matthews. Learned my lesson. If you're even counting on a rookie as a RB 2, then you're doing it wrong.
I know that now, but here are some FBG quotes from the pre-season. Jason Wood: "Mark Ingram is one of the running backs that can make your team a championship contender in 2011, thanks to a combination of great talent, a great situation, and misplaced skepticism which is keeping his average draft position lower than it should be."
What does it say?I'm on my phone and couldn't find anythingHe will probably in my starting lineup this week, just check the ESPN scroll
Agreed. What did ESPN say?What does it say?I'm on my phone and couldn't find anythingHe will probably in my starting lineup this week, just check the ESPN scroll
I did take quantity over quality. And I lucked out getting F. Jackson as my RB4, but struck out on my RB1 and RB3 (Deangelo Williams and Reggie Bush). Now I just am hoping that Ingram can be a solid RB2. If that happens, Waldman's theory will have worked out.
According to NFL.com, the Jags are 5th in lowest rushing YPG, and they are 9th giving up 3.4yds/rush.While are face value these are good numbers, the RBs theyve faced are CJ, Greene, and DWill/JStew, all of these RBs have yet to have a good game vs anyone yet this year. Stewart did actually avg 5.9yds/rush last week (10/59) vs Jax. The one TD you mention was Greene, and that is the only TD scored by these 4 RBs after 3 weeks as well.So while its not the greatest matchup for Ingram, I wouldnt let the Jags run D be the reason why I bench him either.
Booo hoo! What else are you going to cry about on this board?!
Problem is when he is on the field it's obvious what the Saints are doing. I think they tried to pass him the ball to make the opposition have a doubt but they were poorly constructed. Ingram needs some balls out in the flat and let him clobber the opponent.
So the positive is that he has failed almost every time they have given him meaningful work? The kicker is players don't keep getting that kind of work when they keep failing.That article is a nice glass half full type of article, too bad the conclusions it draws are ridiculous.
I REALLY hope you don't play dynasty. If so, its amazing that you haven't learned the painful lesson of "patience" with rookies, especially young RB's.
I've learned to recognize the frauds, and Ingram is one. It doesn't take hundreds of carries to notice he doesn't have NFL skills.Ingram 36/129 3.6 YPCThomas 21/100 4.8 YPCSproles 8/59 7.4 YPCThere are failures and then there are epic failures, which Ingram is.
Could indicate that the team still has confidence in the player and doesn't place all the blame on Ingram or the failures are things the team feels are correctable and not due to a lack of talent.Bradshaw for example, still gets work despite having done poorly in short yardage so far this season.
Epic failure after three games? Wow, this post is most likely going to come back to embarrass you at some point.
That's anecdotal. Have you watched him run?
you recognize frauds AND have an unbelievable understanding and knowledge of sports injuries. i envy you.
My statement would imply that I disagree with RB1 claims but could see him pulling off RB2 #'s, would it not?
Last time I checked, you didn't get my point at all.
Ah, I was joking and meant that no one cares about my team and made an ESPN scroll joke, my bad'ConnSKINS26 said:Agreed. What did ESPN say?'jamil said:What does it say?I'm on my phone and couldn't find anythingHe will probably in my starting lineup this week, just check the ESPN scroll
I have not only watched him run I have seen almost every carry he's had going back to his freshmen year at college. Also I was privy to some scouting film unavailable to the general public. I studied this guy in depth as I had the #1 pick in my rookie draft and after review saw many many weaknesses and issues with his skillet and how it would translate to the NFL.I might share my report on him but to be honest don't like to share detailed info on dynasty prospects as my league mates will use that info against me.
you're a sad, sad little man.
