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Ingram looked OK. I thought PT and Sproles looked more explosive, so that isn't good for Ingram's touches. If both of those guys stay healthy all year, that will definitely limit Ingram's FF ceiling this year. I think he finishes in the middle of the RB2 pack, which isn't what I think a lot of folks were hoping to get.By the way, did anyone watch Sproles tonight and think Reggie Bush underachieved even more than you already thought he did? I remember Bush having some great returns, but even though I only watched about half the game, Sproles at 28 looked more dynamic than most every game I saw Bush play. I am sort of glad I didn't buy into the Bush hype train in Miami. He may pile up the receptions in PPR leagues, but without Brees, I don't see great results.

Very good point my thoughts exactly. Was gonna trade bradshaw for Ingram in a trade with some other pieces I'm feeling pretty good about that being rejected now and yes I think Ingram will have a good chance having better career then bradshaw

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?

Ingram.

Who got the 3rd down carries?

Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).

Who got the goal line work?

Ingram.

If you look at PT's carries, they were the 3rd drive in the 1st half, and the 3rd drive in the 2nd half. Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there, PT will get a series here and there. Ingram will also get more than 13 carries when the Saints aren't down 2 TDs early and Brees doesn't throw it 49 times (2nd most attempts for Brees since 2008 season, I didn't even bother to look further back than that - it was also tied for the most passing yards Brees has had since 2008).

His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him to give him the first carry (the start), and the very last carry when the game was on the line. He'll have better outings, no doubt.

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“You’ve got to get a yard,” Ingram said. “It’s goal line to win the game, got to get a yard.”

Mathematics not Ingram's strong suit apparently.
Weren't they on the 1-yard line? :confused:
They were down by 8 there. Nothing that happend on that play (or the next one for that matter) was going to win the game for the Saints.
Only way NO's wins the game is to get that yard then a 2 point conversion then score first in OT. They don't get that yard they don't win. His math is fine.
Don't mess with Packer Fan. Even after a win they still have little man complex. Just let it go.

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I'm offering Hernandez for Ingram. He would be nuts to accept it, but he started him. He has Gronkowski for TE, so I know he will sweat which TE will get the points each week. We'll see, Week 1 panic may work for me

What is the panic. Ingram had 65% of the carries last night. He got the ball on the goal line. GB is a tough team to run against. I have Ingram in a couple leagues but sat him on my bench because I did not think he would have a good game. He wil be fine. But if this is how people are reacting, I may try to get him in the leagues I don't have him in.

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?Ingram.Who got the 3rd down carries?Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).Who got the goal line work?Ingram.Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there.... His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him....

Perhaps to the fault of the coaches. Thomas looked better to me. Sproles too.It's just one game though. Ingram could step it up if they continue to give him every chance possible like that.

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?Ingram.Who got the 3rd down carries?Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).Who got the goal line work?Ingram.If you look at PT's carries, they were the 3rd drive in the 1st half, and the 3rd drive in the 2nd half. Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there, PT will get a series here and there. Ingram will also get more than 13 carries when the Saints aren't down 2 TDs early and Brees doesn't throw it 49 times (2nd most attempts for Brees since 2008 season, I didn't even bother to look further back than that - it was also tied for the most passing yards Brees has had since 2008). His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him to give him the first carry (the start), and the very last carry when the game was on the line. He'll have better outings, no doubt.

:goodposting:

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Ingram looked good. Giving the ball to Sproles on the 5 to run up the middle was a mistake. Not running the ball on 4th and inches in the red zone - mistake. Not getting that last play TD was completely on the OL, not Ingram. GB's DL surged a couple yards into the backfield when the ball was snapped.

Ingram will be fine.

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LOVE seeing all this panic. Put in trade offers for Ingram in three leagues this morning. :thumbup:

mind sharing what you offered?

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Frank Gore, 2005, first game. 4 carries, 17 yards. He'll never amount to much.

Mendenhall, 2008, first game. 10 carries, 28 yards. Slow...when will the Steelers get a bell cow back?

Ray Rice, 2008, first game. 22 carries, 64 yards. Too small to make an make an impact, in spite of high number of carries.

It's good that we have some eagle eyes on this board who can spot the busts right after the first game.

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Ingram probably won't bust because he's too good of a football player, but he didn't run with much anger last night. He looked a step slow and not very powerful. Obviously a lot of people saw that. I own Ingram in 2 redrafts and I am far from panicking, but would not start him (and I didn't start him this week) until I see something. It doesn't even have to be a change in role, just a change in performance. I will be rolling with DeAngelo in one league and Reggie Bush in the other for the time being.

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Ingram probably won't bust because he's too good of a football player, but he didn't run with much anger last night. He looked a step slow and not very powerful. Obviously a lot of people saw that. I own Ingram in 2 redrafts and I am far from panicking, but would not start him (and I didn't start him this week) until I see something. It doesn't even have to be a change in role, just a change in performance. I will be rolling with DeAngelo in one league and Reggie Bush in the other for the time being.

I really don't get the "slow" thing from people. I thought he looked pretty quick last night.

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Packers CB Sam Shields was interviewed and basically said that when Ingram was in the game, they knew they were going to run.

Payton has to fix that.

Granted, the Saints scored 34 points, so their offense did fine...

But you decrease the effectiveness of a RB when the entire defense knows he's going to get the ball.

I expect that will change in future weeks, as the Saints get out in front of teams, instead of being behind right from the start.

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Ingram probably won't bust because he's too good of a football player, but he didn't run with much anger last night. He looked a step slow and not very powerful. Obviously a lot of people saw that. I own Ingram in 2 redrafts and I am far from panicking, but would not start him (and I didn't start him this week) until I see something. It doesn't even have to be a change in role, just a change in performance. I will be rolling with DeAngelo in one league and Reggie Bush in the other for the time being.

I really don't get the "slow" thing from people. I thought he looked pretty quick last night.
And I thought he ran aggressively...in fact, there were multiple comments in the game thread from people saying he was "running angry".

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LOVE seeing all this panic. Put in trade offers for Ingram in three leagues this morning. :thumbup:

mind sharing what you offered?
Sure, and I'll also note that so far no one has responded, so I expect counter offers if not outright declines.In one league I offered Tolbert to the guy who has Mathews. He's a big believer in "hancuffing", which I'm not. In another league where the guy had Manning, I offered Sam Bradford for Ingram (I have Brady as my starter, and it's a 10-teamer so there are decent lower end QB2s I can grab)In the final league I offered up Brandon Marshall. It's a non-PPR league and we only start 2 WRs (and a flex), so he's expendable to me.

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“You’ve got to get a yard,” Ingram said. “It’s goal line to win the game, got to get a yard.”

Mathematics not Ingram's strong suit apparently.
Weren't they on the 1-yard line? :confused:
They were down by 8 there. Nothing that happend on that play (or the next one for that matter) was going to win the game for the Saints.
:mellow:

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Ingram has looked fine. Not sure what everybody is feeling bad about. What did you expect in his first game?

Plus the Nawlins Oline was getting owned in run plays by the GB Dline.

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LOVE seeing all this panic. Put in trade offers for Ingram in three leagues this morning. :thumbup:

mind sharing what you offered?
Sure, and I'll also note that so far no one has responded, so I expect counter offers if not outright declines.In one league I offered Tolbert to the guy who has Mathews. He's a big believer in "hancuffing", which I'm not. In another league where the guy had Manning, I offered Sam Bradford for Ingram (I have Brady as my starter, and it's a 10-teamer so there are decent lower end QB2s I can grab)In the final league I offered up Brandon Marshall. It's a non-PPR league and we only start 2 WRs (and a flex), so he's expendable to me.
cool, i think the marshall or tolbert offers have a chance, esp if you can sweeten the pot a little. unless thats a 2qb league, id lol at the bradford offer.

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LOVE seeing all this panic. Put in trade offers for Ingram in three leagues this morning. :thumbup:

mind sharing what you offered?
Sure, and I'll also note that so far no one has responded, so I expect counter offers if not outright declines.In one league I offered Tolbert to the guy who has Mathews. He's a big believer in "hancuffing", which I'm not. In another league where the guy had Manning, I offered Sam Bradford for Ingram (I have Brady as my starter, and it's a 10-teamer so there are decent lower end QB2s I can grab)In the final league I offered up Brandon Marshall. It's a non-PPR league and we only start 2 WRs (and a flex), so he's expendable to me.
cool, i think the marshall or tolbert offers have a chance, esp if you can sweeten the pot a little. unless thats a 2qb league, id lol at the bradford offer.
I think the Bradford offer was better than Tolbert. It's a 10 teamer so JW probably has RB depth. I expect big things from Bradford. It's Ingram's first game. I didn't expect any more than what he showed last night. He will be very valuable as the season progresses. Now is the time to buy low.

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I can live with 4pts from Ingram this week just because they gave him the ball - NOT Brees - with the game on the line in the first game. If only their OL didnt suck.

:goodposting: The fact that he got the ball in that situation says a lot, and I honestly don't think any RB in this league could have scored on that last play with the push the Saints o-line was allowing, dude didn't stand a chance. Very encouraged from this performance.
:confused:

I could see being encouraged by the fact that he got the ball more than Pierre Thomas, but I'm not sure how you can encouraged by his actual performance. He didn't really do anything at all that demonstrated that he's the best RB on the team. In fact, Pierre Thomas did a lot more with his touches than Ingram. And with Brees getting flattened as many times as he was, I would think that the Saints will be less and less likely to use a rookie RB if that continues to happen.

Obviously the kid has some talent, he won the Heisman for crying out loud, but this situation just screams RBBC to me, just like it has been for quite some time in N.O.

Please point to the play where Ingram blew a block on a passing play.
I didn't say that he did. But I didn't see Pierre Thomas blow one either. But if the opposing defenses keep getting to Brees that often, the Saints are going to be forced to keep a RB in to help block more often. Do you really think that's going to be a rookie over a proven vet? Especially since those same types of plays are ones where the RB can peel off for a pass (and the Saints showed no interest in throwing Ingram the ball?).

The Ingram hype is completely out of control. You people are nuts.

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Ingram looked good. Giving the ball to Sproles on the 5 to run up the middle was a mistake. Not running the ball on 4th and inches in the red zone - mistake. Not getting that last play TD was completely on the OL, not Ingram. GB's DL surged a couple yards into the backfield when the ball was snapped.Ingram will be fine.

I agree with this. Not sure what he'll do this year, but the way they use the RBs is something they have to fix. The run game was completely out of sync, and playing from behind may have something to do with it, but they also should of been more effective with GB playing pass. Great game by the GB D, but a terrible game for the Saints coaches, O-line and RBs. They have some work to do this week.

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I saw good things and bad things last night. I saw him run into the back of his linemen when a gaping hole existed to one side or the other. I saw PT look like a guy who is extremely thankful for every carry he gets and would like to be the starter. I saw a rookie in his first game who didn't seem to have the fire that PT did. It's his job, he knows it. He's also going to be a little hesitant or tentative. It was his first game against a really good D.

While I still think it's utterly ridiculous to anoint the guy as a HOFer, I think it's equally ridiculous to call the guy a bust or slow.

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I just can't believe the Saints packed it in tight and just tried to slam the ball up the middle on that last play. I think they would have had a better chance in a normal set/formation. It amazes me that teams still pack it all in and invite the defense to do the same.

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?Ingram.Who got the 3rd down carries?Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).Who got the goal line work?Ingram.If you look at PT's carries, they were the 3rd drive in the 1st half, and the 3rd drive in the 2nd half. Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there, PT will get a series here and there. Ingram will also get more than 13 carries when the Saints aren't down 2 TDs early and Brees doesn't throw it 49 times (2nd most attempts for Brees since 2008 season, I didn't even bother to look further back than that - it was also tied for the most passing yards Brees has had since 2008). His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him to give him the first carry (the start), and the very last carry when the game was on the line. He'll have better outings, no doubt.

Total Snapcount------------------------Ingram 19 (13 run 6 pass)Thomas 26 (5 run 14 pass)Sproles 32 (2 run 27 pass)Looks like Ingram will be the featured mainly to run and short yardage. I don't think you can expect more than 13-18 total rushing plays per game even if they were ahead. If this is your definition of "bell cow", then =(. He did not look impressive last night. Edited by Maven

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I thought he looked good on many Carries. He doesn't have great top speed but he got through the line very quickly. He had a couple successive carries in the 2nd where he found the hole quickly and ran downhill for nice gains. The fact that he started both haves and got the goalline looks should be encouraging for fantasy owners. Not a great statistical game but the combo of it being his first and it being against the top rated defense makes it an okay start.

:goodposting:

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?Ingram.Who got the 3rd down carries?Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).Who got the goal line work?Ingram.If you look at PT's carries, they were the 3rd drive in the 1st half, and the 3rd drive in the 2nd half. Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there, PT will get a series here and there. Ingram will also get more than 13 carries when the Saints aren't down 2 TDs early and Brees doesn't throw it 49 times (2nd most attempts for Brees since 2008 season, I didn't even bother to look further back than that - it was also tied for the most passing yards Brees has had since 2008). His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him to give him the first carry (the start), and the very last carry when the game was on the line. He'll have better outings, no doubt.

Total Snapcount------------------------Ingram 19 (13 run 6 pass)Thomas 26 (5 run 14 pass)Sproles 32 (2 run 27 pass)Looks like Ingram will be the featured mainly to run and short yardage. I don't think you can expect more than 13-18 total rushing plays per game even if they were ahead. If this is your definition of "bell cow", then =(. He did not look impressive last night.
I saw this stat too, and it is worrisome. I do think that in games where the Saints are ahead they may grind with Ingram, but the fact that Sproles and PT were used so extensively is a bad sign to me. I'll be curious to see if this has more to do with the circumstance, or if this is sort of the model going forward. If Ingram is going to split carries on the first two downs, get short yardage, and goal line carries, but not be used in the passing game, then he will have a very tough time putting up good fantasy numbers. I thought he looked pretty good running the ball. I am more concerned with opportunity than actual performance.

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I just can't believe the Saints packed it in tight and just tried to slam the ball up the middle on that last play. I think they would have had a better chance in a normal set/formation. It amazes me that teams still pack it all in and invite the defense to do the same.

I'm sure they were thinking there is no way Carl Nicks, Olin Kreutz and Jahri Evans would get OWNED as bad as they did...ALL GAME. Credit has to be given to the packer DLine...but WOW, the Saints OLine, which is regarded as one of the best, sure looked awful last night.

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Seems like he's another good weapon intended to be used along with other good weapons. Anyone hoping for him to be "the guy" will be disappointed.

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Ingram has looked fine. Not sure what everybody is feeling bad about. What did you expect in his first game?

Plus the Nawlins Oline was getting owned in run plays by the GB Dline.
This. Raji/Wynn/Pickett were monsters last night. New Orleans got zero push in the game. Luckily for Ingram owners, There aren't many teams with a front three that big, and as far as I know, no one else has a BJ Raji.

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I noted that the opening drive after halftime was built around Ingram snapping off 5-8 yard runs and marching the Saints down the field. If GB isn't up 2+ TD's I think we would have seen a steady diet of Ingram. As it were they were forced to pass in order to keep up. It was his first game, he looked VERY solid. Made some very quick, shifty, and powerful runs between the tackles. The kid will be fine. Say what you want about PT, he looked good, but was also the beneficiary of coming in in some not-so-obvious running situations.

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Total Snapcount------------------------Ingram 19 (13 run 6 pass)Thomas 26 (5 run 14 pass)Sproles 32 (2 run 27 pass)

Talk about telegraphing run/pass based on personnel. Guys, if you think Sean Payton will do this poor a job of mixing up the play selection all year, then you clearly don't think as much of him as I do.First time out with his new toy and he whiffed. Don't think we're the only ones looking at data like this. Ingram can catch the ball and did just fine in pass pro last night. This type of telegraphing will not occur all year. Edited by LawFitz

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Seems like he's another good weapon intended to be used along with other good weapons. Anyone hoping for him to be "the guy" will be disappointed.

I'm curious if you and the other "Ingram = 800 yds/7 TDs" guys (e.g., you, Maven, cvoproka) in this thread own Ingram. I'd really like to buy low if there are Ingram owners like you out there, but I don't want to be offensive and offer someone like Jacobs or Lance Moore if the people in your court don't actually own Ingram in any leagues. Edited by mdlane

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Total Snapcount

------------------------

Ingram 19 (13 run 6 pass)

Thomas 26 (5 run 14 pass)

Sproles 32 (2 run 27 pass)

Talk about telegraphing run/pass based on personnel. Guys, if you think Sean Payton will do this poor a job of mixing up the play selection all year, then you clearly don't think as much of him as I do.

First time out with his new toy and he whiffed. Don't think we're the only ones looking at data like this. Ingram can catch the ball and did just fine in pass pro last night. This type of telegraphing will not occur all year.

Hmm I don't know if I agree with your assesment of Payton as far as mixing it up.

He's a package-centric, situational type of play caller on offense. He has 3 rb's at his disposal that all have a variety of skills. Some perform their skills in areas better than others. Although it may be strategic to mix up his playcalling, 9 times out of 10 when the game is on the line, he's going to put the best player out on the field for that situation (case in point Ingram's last play).

I don't believe theres a competitive advantage to give Ingram more passing targets or use him on passing downs more than Darren Sproles or Thomas? I may be ignorant to Ingram's passing catching ability (he caught 60 balls in 39 college games for his career) .... The reason we may not be seeing Ingram on the field in passing situations is that Ingram may not be as good as of a pass blocker as Thomas or Sproles?? Ingram was NOT used in any pass blocking situations last night (according to profootballfocus).

IDK .... it will be interesting to see how he is used next week.

Edited by Maven

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Now is the time to buy low.

Next week, after playing another top 5 rush D, is when I'm going to start pumping out hawk offers in all my leagues.

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Seems like he's another good weapon intended to be used along with other good weapons. Anyone hoping for him to be "the guy" will be disappointed.

I'm curious if you and the other "Ingram = 800 yds/7 TDs" guys (e.g., you, Maven, cvoproka) in this thread own Ingram. I'd really like to buy low if there are Ingram owners like you out there, but I don't want to be offensive and offer someone like Jacobs or Lance Moore if the people in your court don't actually own Ingram in any leagues.
Fair question. I didnt have a shot at him in my dynasty league, drafted too low, or I would have taken him of course.My other league is a 12 team, 1 keeper league. I had wanted to take him because I do like him but figured he would go sooner than I was comfortable with and he did.....middle of the 3rd. I just didnt see the Saints handing him enough of a role this year to make him my RB #1 which he would have been had I taken him when I had a shot at him. So, part draft situation and part skepticism. Overall, good teams rarely need to draft a rookie to be their go to go. Not to say he wont be. I just wasnt buying in enough to take him round one or two.

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Watching this game reminded me why I do not like drafting non Brees saints. Every week its gonna be a different guy getting the touches. The numbers will be there for alot of there players at the end but gl picking the right weeks to play them.

I think Ingram will be a good fantasy rb I just do not know if its gonna be this season. If P.Thomas goes down I think it will be sooner rather then later. I expect to see alot of diff amounts of touches between NO's 3 good rbs through the season cause the coach loves playing with different toys. I really do not see Ingram being a "bellcow" with 2 rbs with talent out there who can do diff things. Ingram is the goal line back that is for certain.

In ppr I think Ingram tops out as a flex play this season. Barring some kind of injury to Thomas which I guess is likely considering his history. In non ppr I could see Ingram as a low end rb2 since hes getting the goalline work.

I still surprised they ran on that last play of the game. The saints oline looked terrible yesterday. I would not have tried to run it up the gut

with the 0 push the saints oline was getting on the packs big d tackles.

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as far as I know, no one else has a BJ Raji.

The guy plays an absurd number of snaps. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was suiting up in another uniform and playing in the 4:00 games after the 1:00 games end. Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Say what you want about PT, he looked good, but was also the beneficiary of coming in in some not-so-obvious running situations.

wth?Pierre ran on 1st and 10 twice, 2nd and 10 once, 2nd and 3, and 2nd and 2.All pretty much downs that could go either way, run or pass (Ingram actually carried 3 times and 2nd and 9 or longer).Thomas actually looked quite good on the carries he did get. Better than Ingram last night, even if you take the statistics out of it. That's not to say he's a better player, because I think Ingram was being a bit tentative last night and not wanting to screw up in his first game (fumbles, bad cuts outside to lose yards, etc). Once he gets more comfortable and secure in his role as the lead dog he'll let loose and let his instincts take over again.

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I don't understand the "Pierre Thomas is bound to get hurt at some point" talk either. His injury last year could have happened to anybody.

Couldn't any injury technically happen to anybody?

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I don't understand the "Pierre Thomas is bound to get hurt at some point" talk either. His injury last year could have happened to anybody.

Couldn't any injury technically happen to anybody?
Mostly correct. Ben Roethlisburger will never get appendicitis.

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So, who got 65% of the carries last night?Ingram.Who got the 3rd down carries?Ingram. (3 to PT's 0).Who got the goal line work?Ingram.If you look at PT's carries, they were the 3rd drive in the 1st half, and the 3rd drive in the 2nd half. Make no mistake, Ingram will be the bell cow there, PT will get a series here and there. Ingram will also get more than 13 carries when the Saints aren't down 2 TDs early and Brees doesn't throw it 49 times (2nd most attempts for Brees since 2008 season, I didn't even bother to look further back than that - it was also tied for the most passing yards Brees has had since 2008). His coaching staff has/had the confidence in him to give him the first carry (the start), and the very last carry when the game was on the line. He'll have better outings, no doubt.

He will not keep getting 65% of the carries if he continues to average 3 yards per rush

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Now is the time to buy low.

Next week, after playing another top 5 rush D, is when I'm going to start pumping out hawk offers in all my leagues.
Who is this top 5 rush defense you reference? Packers were 18th last year.

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I don't think Pierre looked very fast or explosive last night, but he has good balance and he always breaks more tackles than I expect him to. Ingram looked OK last night. As an Ingram owner, it was about what I expected. I was happy to see that he easily got the most rushing attempts. I would be happier if he would have had a pass or two thrown his way.

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Now is the time to buy low.

Next week, after playing another top 5 rush D, is when I'm going to start pumping out hawk offers in all my leagues.
Who is this top 5 rush defense you reference? Packers were 18th last year.
9th in rushing yards, 3rd in rushing TDs allowed. 4th in points allowed to FF RBs. Should have been more specific.ETA: I'm still wrong, Bears were 7th last year in points allowed to FF RBs. Buy now! Edited by drater

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Now is the time to buy low.

Next week, after playing another top 5 rush D, is when I'm going to start pumping out hawk offers in all my leagues.
Who is this top 5 rush defense you reference? Packers were 18th last year.
18th in rushing yards, 3rd in rushing TDs allowed. Should have been more specific.
And that without tons of starters by the end of the season.

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Seems like he's another good weapon intended to be used along with other good weapons. Anyone hoping for him to be "the guy" will be disappointed.

I'm curious if you and the other "Ingram = 800 yds/7 TDs" guys (e.g., you, Maven, cvoproka) in this thread own Ingram. I'd really like to buy low if there are Ingram owners like you out there, but I don't want to be offensive and offer someone like Jacobs or Lance Moore if the people in your court don't actually own Ingram in any leagues.
not sure if you mean me...but those werent my projections for him. i have him at 1k yfs and 12 tds. still not near enough to justify taking given his draft position in any of my drafts. regardless, my posts in this thread should imply i think hes indeed a "buy low" (i really hate that phrase but woteva) right now. on the prolific saints offense he will be able to put up points regardless of how good of a player he is and the coaches have made it pretty clear that no matter how good pierre thomas plays he will be eschewed.

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