Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
Curious to see what happens with the Spiller visit in NO as well. If Spiller signs, that could really hurt Ingram.
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Mark Ingram (4 Viewers)
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saintfool
Dead sexy
Khiry is the one that this visit is about. Yes, it would hurt Ingram but they could cut Robinson easily and save almost $600k.
It wouldn't make much sense to cut Khiry, but that doesn't really matter here- he would only be a back-up to Ingram while Spiller would really cut into his touches.
If Spiller signs I'll feel this way. Can't help but Ingram will feel this way as well.
I was just starting to think Ingram was shaping up at least a solid PPR RB2, with upside as a low end RB1. Ingram looked good last season but he's still a volume back IMO. No way he'll get that volume with Spiller.
Not really last season but most of Ingrams career he's looked like a square peg in a round hole. Granted the offense is changing but they are not going ground and pound and I can't help but think Spiller is perfect for this offense and a 12-15 carry Ingram will go back to looking like the square peg.
On Khiry, teams don't cut cheap good labor and doubt he could fetch much in a trade since I think he's only got a year left.
If Spiller signs with the Saints I'm not certain who is going to be more crushed over the events of the past week, Ingram owners or Khiry owners. Ingram still has value but he's locked up for likely at least two seasons. Khiry would have no value other than an injury but at least he might get out next season but this time last week most thought he'd be the Saints main back or heavy part of RBBC.
I agree. Spiller signing would be terrible. Ingram looked good when he got some extra receptions, but Spiller has shown what he can do before, so he could really eat into the playing time if he plays well. Given Spiller's 2014 and meh 2013. In 2013, his game logs look mediocre except for 3 long runs and the rest were just 3.6 ypc. I know, you can't remove them in the end, but his other 199 rushes really looked a lot more like 2014. I don't know if Spiller has lost a step or something, but 2012 was great, 2013 was almost a transition where he broke only 3 long ones and then turned into 2014.
That said, if Spiller isn't there, Ingram is way more valuable. Cadet is a nice receiving back, but Ingram will get a lot more receptions/work if it is just him, Cadet and Khiry and maybe a rookie/other backup. Spiller could be revitalized and then take a big chunk away.
How would they save money? Spiller is going to cost more than $600k, so their cap number goes up if they swap them.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Spiller would scare me, Bush not so much. He looked out of gas last year in Detroit for the most part. I'm not saying it would be ideal, but I'm not expecting Ingram to see more than 1-3 receptions a game anyway.
Grimace59
Footballguy
Payton will continue to show his hand to defenses. Ingram in Run, Spiller/Bush in Pass.
It's more the idea than the actual player- Ingram would likely go back to getting very few looks in the passing game, running almost elusively during obvious running downs, etc.
Agreed, although Bush would likely be more of a straight backup than someone I would worry about grabbing more touches by outperforming. Without Spiller, I think I would expect Ingram to get more like 40+ receptions (he had 29 last year even with missing a couple games). I would think he would have more 2 reception games rather than 0 or 1 reception games to build up his FF floor in PPR (all my leagues are PPR).
JFS171
Footballguy
And now that Murray is out of Dallas and Schefty reports they're calling other FA RBs... floors me that Ingram signed with NO so quickly.
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Bush concerns me zero, and I like Reggie. But the Saints will 100% bring in more of a pure third down back. I'm ok with it being an older back who has had lot of nagging injuries, mainly to his knee.
I think the Saints learned already they can't be as predictable with the gameplan when Ingram is in, so even if he's not playing third downs I still think he can grab 20-30 passes with Bush.
Spiller concerns me because I think he's such an ideal fit for this offense he'll prove to be to difficult to take out.
I'm sure you agree the Saints will bring in more of a pure passing down back. So they have to pay someone. Granted nothing is as cheap as mid round draft pick but I don't see Reggie getting paid much. And if he goes back to the Saints he will get used plenty, it's just that I think it will primarily be obvious passing downs which I don't see Ingram playing anyway unless injuries forced the Saints hand.
I expected them to have a RB who was a pure passing down back, but not necessarily one who played every passing down. Basically Cadet is what I'm using as the baseline. He was zero risk to take carries away and only had a few more receptions than Ingram last season. I'm assuming Bush would make more money than Cadet, and they'd almost certainly use him more as well so it would be a hit IMO.
Now they just traded away Grubbs too.
I think Spiller has the potential to lower his ceiling a lot more. Bush looked just about done last year. If they both play like last year, then I think neither has much of an impact on Ingram, but I think Spillerat 2.5 years younger has the potential to get back to his 2012 year and if he does, then Ingram takes a huge hit. I don't think Bush at 30 has that potential anymore based on last year.
I agree that Spiller is more likely to damage his overall value than Bush, but I look at that more as his floor.stbugs said:
Right now I'd say his ceiling is very high because he has little competition. If they add either of those guys, he's likely to lose most of his receptions and a few carries per game which would immediately drop his ceiling some, but he'll still have a floor of say ~15 carries per game (plus goal line work). If the guy they bring in does really well and carves out a larger role, then his floor drops to say ~8-10 carries per game.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Bush is the one actually interested in coming back. I'm sure they'd consider it on the cheap if a deal isn't reached with Spiller.
News flash, this is a fantasy football web site where we talk about fantasy football.
Digital video at 10:00. No one uses film anymore.
Got it. I think we are actually thinking the same thing, i.e. that Spiller has the potential to do more damage to Ingram's FF points in 2015.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
nightmare
Footballguy
FBG standard scoring M Ingram finished at RB15 and missed 3 games. P Thomas(11 games)
and T Cadet combined caught 83 passes. I don't think the sky is falling here.
Give CJ Spiller 100 carries -the 60 from PT and TC, the other 40 from K Robinson and those
83 rec's. Bring him in to replace those two guys and M Ingram's workload stays the same-a
little over 17 carries a game. He stays fresh, plays all 16 games and finishes at RB12. The K
Robinson owners are the ones out of luck, Ingram's career just got extended. The Saints
have always used RBBC and it's usually pretty good fantasy wise.
If the Saints offense gets back on track or a shift in philosophy with J Graham gone Spillers
carries could go up to 150-160 and Ingram could still be RB12,
PPR scoring M Ingram was RB14.
and T Cadet combined caught 83 passes. I don't think the sky is falling here.
Give CJ Spiller 100 carries -the 60 from PT and TC, the other 40 from K Robinson and those
83 rec's. Bring him in to replace those two guys and M Ingram's workload stays the same-a
little over 17 carries a game. He stays fresh, plays all 16 games and finishes at RB12. The K
Robinson owners are the ones out of luck, Ingram's career just got extended. The Saints
have always used RBBC and it's usually pretty good fantasy wise.
If the Saints offense gets back on track or a shift in philosophy with J Graham gone Spillers
carries could go up to 150-160 and Ingram could still be RB12,
PPR scoring M Ingram was RB14.
rockaction
Footballguy
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Yours is astounding. Keep tootin' that toot, dynasty boot.Your lack of self-awareness is frightening.
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cstu
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
:(
Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
The question isn't "How much will Spiller dip into Ingram's touches?". The first question is "Which back will be the primary ball carrier?". I haven't seem what the Saints are paying Spiller, but it could well be more than Ingram. That won't tell us everything, but it might tell us something.
Obviously, the Saints feel Spiller gives them something Ingram doesn't, or he wouldn't be there. But is their expectation that he's just 3rd down COP back, a full fledged 50/50 committee member, or perhaps the primary ball carrier with Ingram as the COP/short yardage back?
Obviously, the Saints feel Spiller gives them something Ingram doesn't, or he wouldn't be there. But is their expectation that he's just 3rd down COP back, a full fledged 50/50 committee member, or perhaps the primary ball carrier with Ingram as the COP/short yardage back?
nightmare
Footballguy
2012 P Thomas only played 6 games, C Ivory 3, M Ingram 2. Sproles
was a receiver decoyed as an RB. D Brees had 670 attempts and 422
completions. Half of the NFL doesn't even do 422 attempts.
This could be the season Brees doesn't break 600 attempts and we see
a 300 carry RB or a 250/150 split.
was a receiver decoyed as an RB. D Brees had 670 attempts and 422
completions. Half of the NFL doesn't even do 422 attempts.
This could be the season Brees doesn't break 600 attempts and we see
a 300 carry RB or a 250/150 split.
steelerfan1
Footballguy
Gotta think he is mumbling the above statement to himself right now. Looks like you screwed me again Costanza
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
I remember PT and Reggie both being viable fantasy starters. Too much pessimism and "see, I told you so" frame of thought in here. Just stop. None of you can see the future.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
no it's not. spiller couldn't take that job outright from fred jackson. spiller imo will be a better version of PT and used in the same way in Payton's system.Holy Schneikes said:
