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Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers (1 Viewer)

Jason Wood

Zoo York
2011 Player Spotlight Series

One of Footballguys best assets is our message board community. The Shark Pool is, in our view, the best place on the internet to discuss, debate and analyze all things fantasy football. In what's become an annual tradition, the Player Spotlight series is a key part of the preseason efforts. As many of you know, we consider the Player Spotlight threads the permanent record for analyzing the fantasy prospects of the player in question. This year, we plan to publish more than 140 offensive spotlights covering the vast majority of expected skill position starters.

With the labor uncertainty, there are more unanswered questions entering the summer than usual. The good news is that gives us some more time to discuss the merits of players without having to react (or overreact) to the smallest bits of news about a slight injury in practice, or coach speak. We'll have plenty of time for that when it comes (we hope).

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Thread Topic: Ryan Mathews & Mike Tolbert, RBs, San Diego Chargers

Player Page Link: Ryan Mathews Player Page

Player Page Link: Mike Tolbert Player Page

Each article will include:

[*]Detailed viewpoint from a Footballguys staff member

[*]Highlighted member commentary from the message board threads

[*]FBG Projections

[*]Consensus Member Projections

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Projections should include:

[*]For QBs: Attempts, Completions, Passing Yards, Passing TDs, Ints, Rush Attempts, Rush Yards, Rush TDs

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Now let's get on with the conversation! We look forward to your contributions and let me offer a personal thanks in anticipation of the great debate and analysis.

 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td

 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td
This seems to be the opinion of Mathews owners and Mathews owners only. I agree that Mathews is obviously the better prospect given his age and raw talent, but to say that tolbert is anything less than a gauranteed bruised is stupid. Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
 
Mike Tolbert= Le'Ron McClain

This sounds like the arguement for all the Rice vs McClain owners. In the end talent speaks for itself.

Just like McClain faded, so will Tolbert. He is a good running fullback but not a good running back.

Mathews is BY FAR the guy to have in the backfield

 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td
This seems to be the opinion of Mathews owners and Mathews owners only. I agree that Mathews is obviously the better prospect given his age and raw talent, but to say that tolbert is anything less than a gauranteed bruised is stupid. Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
You say one of my comments is stupid so I have to question one of yoursTolbert is consistent huh, here are his points in fantasy per week

2

21

8

16

9

6

7

14

3

21

17

5

13

10

0

That's consistant?

and 3 of those games would have been 3 points or less without a td

I don't see how you can call that consistant?

 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td
This seems to be the opinion of Mathews owners and Mathews owners only. I agree that Mathews is obviously the better prospect given his age and raw talent, but to say that tolbert is anything less than a gauranteed bruised is stupid. Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
You say one of my comments is stupid so I have to question one of yoursTolbert is consistent huh, here are his points in fantasy per week

2

21

8

16

9

6

7

14

3

21

17

5

13

10

0

That's consistant?

and 3 of those games would have been 3 points or less without a td

I don't see how you can call that consistant?
pretty sure he means play to play, as you can expect him to get a few yards but not a big gain. Not game to game for FF. Not sure if it's true or not, but from what I saw it seems to be.
 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td
This seems to be the opinion of Mathews owners and Mathews owners only. I agree that Mathews is obviously the better prospect given his age and raw talent, but to say that tolbert is anything less than a gauranteed bruised is stupid. Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
You say one of my comments is stupid so I have to question one of yoursTolbert is consistent huh, here are his points in fantasy per week

2

21

8

16

9

6

7

14

3

21

17

5

13

10

0

That's consistant?

and 3 of those games would have been 3 points or less without a td

I don't see how you can call that consistant?
pretty sure he means play to play, as you can expect him to get a few yards but not a big gain. Not game to game for FF. Not sure if it's true or not, but from what I saw it seems to be.
This.
 
Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
:no: 2010:

# of 20+ yd runs

MJD: 8

S. Jackson: 7

L. McCoy: 7

Frank Gore: 6

M. Tolbert: 6

Ray Rice: 4

To add to that, he had 9 games where he had double digit carries. In all but 1 of those games, he had a run of 10+ yds.

Sorry, but for you to say he's a "3 yds and a cloud of dust" runner means you really never saw him play much or paid attention to what he did.

I love FBs that can streak 70 yds up the sideline

 
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Not sure why Tolbert is being lumped into the Mathews spotlight? Are we going to have a Charles/Jones spotlight as well? Tolbert had the season he did because Mathews went down to injury. During that time Tolbert definitely showcased his talent and probably carved out a slightly bigger role going forward but completely healthy this is Mathews gig.

Mathews 250/1125/12 35/280/1

Tolbert 110/418/6 15/105/0

 
I know Mathews was a big flop last year based on his draft status but we have to remember, he was a rookie.

He did miss 4 games which if he played descently in Ryan could have easily had 1,000 yards and 10 td's.

Not bad for a rookie. The nice thing is Mathews has NO competition at rb. Mike Tolbert isn't that good.

He is a fb that can can 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Mathews is an ewlite talent, SOD this year in fantasy drafts.

Mathews 2011 (based on 16 games)

300 carries 1300 yards 11 td's

20 catches 180 yards 1 td
This seems to be the opinion of Mathews owners and Mathews owners only. I agree that Mathews is obviously the better prospect given his age and raw talent, but to say that tolbert is anything less than a gauranteed bruised is stupid. Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
You say one of my comments is stupid so I have to question one of yoursTolbert is consistent huh, here are his points in fantasy per week

2

21

8

16

9

6

7

14

3

21

17

5

13

10

0

That's consistant?

and 3 of those games would have been 3 points or less without a td

I don't see how you can call that consistant?
pretty sure he means play to play, as you can expect him to get a few yards but not a big gain. Not game to game for FF. Not sure if it's true or not, but from what I saw it seems to be.
This.
Well than based on this info

2010:

# of 20+ yd runs

MJD: 8

S. Jackson: 7

L. McCoy: 7

Frank Gore: 6

M. Tolbert: 6

Ray Rice: 4

you are incorrect again

 
Well than based on this info

2010:

# of 20+ yd runs

MJD: 8

S. Jackson: 7

L. McCoy: 7

Frank Gore: 6

M. Tolbert: 6

Ray Rice: 4

you are incorrect again
Do you not read?
Tolbert is consistent Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there, if they dont resign Sproles then Mathews role becomes a little better but so does Tolberts.
>Mathews will never be the guy they call on in SD to get the short yardage as long as hes still there>Mathews will never be the guy they call on to get short yardage

>Mathews will never get short yardage

pretty sure he means play to play, as you can expect him to get a few yards but not a big gain. Not game to game for FF. Not sure if it's true or not, but from what I saw it seems to be.
>as you can expect him to get a few yards but not a big gain>get a few yards but not a big gain

>a few yards but not a big gain

>not a big gain

 
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The Chargers love Tolbert and he is not going anywhere. When both Tolbert and Mathews were healthy in week 14 and 15, Tolbert was the primary back until the game was sewn up. I see people drafting as if Mathews will get 300+ touches and Tolbert will be a backup. Ain't gonna happen. Tolbert is going to get at least 30-40% of the work including short yardage/goal line and that's in a worst case scenario. I see something more like a true RBBC with a 10th round or later pick on Tolbert being the shark play this year.

 
The Chargers love Tolbert and he is not going anywhere. When both Tolbert and Mathews were healthy in week 14 and 15, Tolbert was the primary back until the game was sewn up. I see people drafting as if Mathews will get 300+ touches and Tolbert will be a backup. Ain't gonna happen. Tolbert is going to get at least 30-40% of the work including short yardage/goal line and that's in a worst case scenario. I see something more like a true RBBC with a 10th round or later pick on Tolbert being the shark play this year.
After the high ankle sprain Mathews was never really healthy last year, rb's can play through it but it's a stretch to say they are healthy.Also he was a rookie coming back at a time when SD had a serviceable rb who the offense was in tune with. The coach even said Mathews couldn't be trusted as he didn't know the pass protections well.I wouldn't judge much off of what happened last year when Mathews was a raw rookie with a high ankle sprain.
 
The Tolbert situation is eerily similar to the McClain one of a few years ago. FB pressed into action due to injuries who performed well garnering hype for the next season only to go back to their old role once the teams rb stable got healthy.

Tolbert 2010

182 carries/735 yards/11 td's/4 YPC

25 rec/216 yards

McClain 2008

232 carries/902 yards/10 td's/3.9 YPC

19 rec/123 yards/1 td

McClain has gotten 37 carries a season since then.

 
The Tolbert situation is eerily similar to the McClain one of a few years ago. FB pressed into action due to injuries who performed well garnering hype for the next season only to go back to their old role once the teams rb stable got healthy.Tolbert 2010182 carries/735 yards/11 td's/4 YPC25 rec/216 yardsMcClain 2008232 carries/902 yards/10 td's/3.9 YPC19 rec/123 yards/1 tdMcClain has gotten 37 carries a season since then.
Some key distinctions:1) Tolbert was actually a tailback in college2) SD has been known to use a multipurpose FB type in their offense a lot more than Baltimore3) SD tendered Tolbert at the 2nd round level, which shows that they value him more than as a starting fullback
 
The Tolbert situation is eerily similar to the McClain one of a few years ago. FB pressed into action due to injuries who performed well garnering hype for the next season only to go back to their old role once the teams rb stable got healthy.Tolbert 2010182 carries/735 yards/11 td's/4 YPC25 rec/216 yardsMcClain 2008232 carries/902 yards/10 td's/3.9 YPC19 rec/123 yards/1 tdMcClain has gotten 37 carries a season since then.
Some key distinctions:1) Tolbert was actually a tailback in college2) SD has been known to use a multipurpose FB type in their offense a lot more than Baltimore3) SD tendered Tolbert at the 2nd round level, which shows that they value him more than as a starting fullback
1)Tolbert averaged 65 carries a season in 4 years of college. He wasn't used as a starting rb2)before Tolbert what SD fullback was given a lot of carries?3)of course they don't want to lose him. They are bare behind Mathews and Tolbert is a solid short yardage guy, knows the offense, and can fill a larger role if circumstances dictate.
 
SD postseason position report from Kevin Acee, their best beat writer

The Chargers have a one-two punch for at least another season (and probably longer) that could rival any in the league if both Ryan Mathews and Mike Tolbert stay healthy.

The pair averaged a combined 4.2 yards per carry in 2010. The plan going forward would be to rotate them based on who’s hot and which defense the Chargers are facing.
HC Norv Turner talks about having two backs
Even if Mathews becomes the player the Chargers expect, head coach Norv Turner has become a believer in having two backs.

“I think you do,” Turner said when asked about the need to have two backs. “I’ve never been that guy, but this game has become so physical. You see so many eight-man fronts, and you want to run the ball. A week ago when they both had 16 carries and (17 apiece on Thursday), it works out. It saves them for a season and for a career.”
You guys can wish for the SD situation to turn out like Baltimore, but you're the only ones saying it is going to go that way. Bill Williamson, who covers the AFC West for ESPN, also said the Chargers "love" Tolbert.

 
Its a chance for them to make up for the mistake of selling Michael Turner for whatever they could get. Tolbert reminds me so much of Turner.

 
Mathews was a much heralded rookie replacement of the legendary LT2. As soon as he was drafted, many were annointing him with the fantasy hype that Mark Ingram is now getting for the Saints. Except that Ingram is likely going to live up to his hype, and with Mathews may never know. Mathews comes from a small school, with an upright running style and injury history that has extended into his pro career. He's had an uphill battle learning to keep himself on the field either with nagging injuries or suspect pass protection. He had a 4.3 ypc, but was inconsistent when he played. There are indicators of his talent level, and he could eventually find his game on a consistent level. He also needs to learn to protect Phillip Rivers on pass plays or he will ride the pine.

Tolbert did everything well enough in the potent SD offense. He plays behind an elite QB and that opens holes consistently. Tolbert is an overachiever, and makes the most of the space he sees. He may be a fantasy bargain in the later rounds, as there will be many Mathews owners expecting a breakout year who will have to overpay for the handcuff.

Not saying a Mathews rebound won't happen, but I feel much more comfortable taking a Tolbert in the 9th/10th round than taking Mathews in the 3rd/4th. If the hype machine starts up again for Mathews, he'll start going in the 2nd round again.

Projection: Mathews: 210/850/7 with 30/200/1

Projection: Tolbert: 120/540/5 with 10/80/0

 
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Mike Tolbert= Le'Ron McClainThis sounds like the arguement for all the Rice vs McClain owners. In the end talent speaks for itself.Just like McClain faded, so will Tolbert. He is a good running fullback but not a good running back.Mathews is BY FAR the guy to have in the backfield
While I don't totally disagree with you, I think it's premature to totally writeoff Tolbert. He certainly showed value to the SD offense. We can easily envision a scenario where Tolbert gets most of the short yardage/goalline carries so that Mathews stays fresh and healthy. Mathews is going to need to score 10+ TD to have an opportunity to be the SOD, and I can't see that happening unless Tolbert gets injured. Plus, SD offensive line isn't that great and there is no reason to believe that Rivers will throw less. The offense goes through Rivers.Mathews - 230 car, 1025 yds, 7TD, 30 rec, 250 yds, 1TDTolbert - 140 car, 530 yds, 8TD, 15 rec, 100 yds, 0TDI am with the crowd that passing on Mathews in the 3rd/4th round and taking Tolbert many rounds later is a better play.
 
It is interesting that Ryan Mathews was injured most of the season with a high ankle sprain, but it was Tolbert who finished the season on the inactive list with a neck injury. During this week 17 game, Mathews ran for 120 yards and 3 TDs. Sproles was only given 4 carries during the game, so I think they wanted to see what they had with their first round pick. Mathews ended the season as the starting RB for the Chargers and I believe his performance was enough to remain atop the depth chart to start the 2011 season. He will be a steal in redrafts in round 3 or 4.

Projection: Mathews: 270/1260/8 with 36/320/3

Projection: Tolbert: 130/540/4 with 10/80/1

 
I think that Mike Tolbert is a lot more capable than most are giving him credit for in this thread. Tolbert played in three more games than Mathews a year ago and averaged only one carry less per game. Tolbert gained 4.0 ypc while Mathews averaged 4.3, but Tolbert had four more rushing TDs (11 to 7). Tolbert only missed two opportunities for receptions, catching 25 on 27 targets and averaging 8.6 ypr against Mathews' 6.6.

I see a passing team that will feature Rivers and his receivers at the expense of a dominating running game and a couple of guys that complement each other well in Tolbert and Mathews.

I will provide a contrarian opinion on the split of opportunities in 2011. Looks a lot like RBBC right down the line.

Mathews 16 gms 214 rushes 860 yds 4.3 ypc 38 targets 32 recs 224 yds 7.0 ypc & 8 total TDs

Tolbert 16 gms 190 rushes 779 yds 4.1 ypc 30 targets 26 recs 208 yds 8.0 ypc & 12 total TDs

Definitely take Tolbert about ten rounds or so later and have yourself a chance at a TD per game with much more if injury strikes Mathews.

 
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Just an observation here. The projections I see so far are likely underestimating the receptions to be split between Mathews and Tolbert by a significant amount. Here are the receptions for the past 4 years (since Turner arrived) by Chargers RBs:

2007: 83

2008: 105

2009: 97

2010: 127

I think Sproles is likely gone, and he had 59 catches last year, while Mathews and Tolbert combined for 47. Most people seem to be predicting 40-60 combined catches for Mathews and Tolbert. Is that because they think RB catches will drop off significantly? Or because they think Todman and/or Hester is going to catch the rest?

IMO Mathews and Tolbert will likely combine for 70+ catches this year, assuming both stay healthy.

 
It is interesting that Ryan Mathews was injured most of the season with a high ankle sprain, but it was Tolbert who finished the season on the inactive list with a neck injury. During this week 17 game, Mathews ran for 120 yards and 3 TDs. Sproles was only given 4 carries during the game, so I think they wanted to see what they had with their first round pick. Mathews ended the season as the starting RB for the Chargers and I believe his performance was enough to remain atop the depth chart to start the 2011 season. He will be a steal in redrafts in round 3 or 4.

Projection: Mathews: 270/1260/8 with 36/320/3

Projection: Tolbert: 130/540/4 with 10/80/1
I dont think its interesting at all, I also dont think having a good game against one of the worst teams the last week of the season matters either. Nor does Sproles performance, with Mathews injured and 3 of their 5 WR injured Sproles started as a WR for like 3 weeks. I think the Chargers are gonna be right behind the chiefs in having an almost perfect 50/50 split in workload.
 
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I get the feeling that some of you guys never saw Mike Tolbert play.

He's not going to go ride the pine this year.

I can see Mathews getting 60-40 carries, perhaps. The only way Tolbert really loses carries is if Mathews comes out and runs with an ability that he didn't show in 2010. I suppose that's possible.

But to compare Tolbert to Leron McClain is not valid, based on what I saw last year.

 
'shader said:
I get the feeling that some of you guys never saw Mike Tolbert play.He's not going to go ride the pine this year.I can see Mathews getting 60-40 carries, perhaps. The only way Tolbert really loses carries is if Mathews comes out and runs with an ability that he didn't show in 2010. I suppose that's possible.But to compare Tolbert to Leron McClain is not valid, based on what I saw last year.
I can't tell if the bigger mistake isn't comparing mathews to ray rice. rice was a serious college player for several seasons. mathews really came out of nowhere with one big season. tolbert may end being mclain, but i am not anywhere near sold on mathews = rice.
 
'shortbow said:
It is interesting that Ryan Mathews was injured most of the season with a high ankle sprain, but it was Tolbert who finished the season on the inactive list with a neck injury. During this week 17 game, Mathews ran for 120 yards and 3 TDs. Sproles was only given 4 carries during the game, so I think they wanted to see what they had with their first round pick. Mathews ended the season as the starting RB for the Chargers and I believe his performance was enough to remain atop the depth chart to start the 2011 season. He will be a steal in redrafts in round 3 or 4.

Projection: Mathews: 270/1260/8 with 36/320/3

Projection: Tolbert: 130/540/4 with 10/80/1
I dont think its interesting at all, I also dont think having a good game against one of the worst teams the last week of the season matters either. Nor does Sproles performance, with Mathews injured and 3 of their 5 WR injured Sproles started as a WR for like 3 weeks. I think the Chargers are gonna be right behind the chiefs in having an almost perfect 50/50 split in workload.
My first reaction: :fishing: :thumbdown: A few hours later I decided to check the facts. In week 17 V. Jackson, Floyd, Ajirotutu and Naanee all registered stats.

Naanee - 4 for 79

V Jax - 3 for 53

Ajirotutu - 1 for 17

Floyd - 2 for 57

Their top 4 wide receivers were healthy in that game. Patrick Crayton was hurt. Antonio Gates (TE) was out. Sproles did not start at wide receiver all year. He does sometimes line up wide as a scatback.

Also, the next time you write a :thumbdown: response you should check the punctuation. Or dont. Don't? Do not?

 
SD postseason position report from Kevin Acee, their best beat writer

The Chargers have a one-two punch for at least another season (and probably longer) that could rival any in the league if both Ryan Mathews and Mike Tolbert stay healthy.

The pair averaged a combined 4.2 yards per carry in 2010. The plan going forward would be to rotate them based on who’s hot and which defense the Chargers are facing.
HC Norv Turner talks about having two backs
Even if Mathews becomes the player the Chargers expect, head coach Norv Turner has become a believer in having two backs.

“I think you do,” Turner said when asked about the need to have two backs. “I’ve never been that guy, but this game has become so physical. You see so many eight-man fronts, and you want to run the ball. A week ago when they both had 16 carries and (17 apiece on Thursday), it works out. It saves them for a season and for a career.”
You guys can wish for the SD situation to turn out like Baltimore, but you're the only ones saying it is going to go that way. Bill Williamson, who covers the AFC West for ESPN, also said the Chargers "love" Tolbert.
I don't ascribe much, if any, value in what Williamson and Acee say. Beat writers have a looooooooooooooooong history of confusing opinion with fact. That said, I do think Tolbert is more of an offensive option than many are giving him credit for. To me, that translates into avoiding Mathews at his expected ADP and grabbing Tolbert in the mid rounds as a backup fantasy option with significant upside. :thumbup:

 
'shortbow said:
It is interesting that Ryan Mathews was injured most of the season with a high ankle sprain, but it was Tolbert who finished the season on the inactive list with a neck injury. During this week 17 game, Mathews ran for 120 yards and 3 TDs. Sproles was only given 4 carries during the game, so I think they wanted to see what they had with their first round pick. Mathews ended the season as the starting RB for the Chargers and I believe his performance was enough to remain atop the depth chart to start the 2011 season. He will be a steal in redrafts in round 3 or 4.

Projection: Mathews: 270/1260/8 with 36/320/3

Projection: Tolbert: 130/540/4 with 10/80/1
I dont think its interesting at all, I also dont think having a good game against one of the worst teams the last week of the season matters either. Nor does Sproles performance, with Mathews injured and 3 of their 5 WR injured Sproles started as a WR for like 3 weeks. I think the Chargers are gonna be right behind the chiefs in having an almost perfect 50/50 split in workload.
My first reaction: :fishing: :thumbdown: A few hours later I decided to check the facts. In week 17 V. Jackson, Floyd, Ajirotutu and Naanee all registered stats.

Naanee - 4 for 79

V Jax - 3 for 53

Ajirotutu - 1 for 17

Floyd - 2 for 57

Their top 4 wide receivers were healthy in that game. Patrick Crayton was hurt. Antonio Gates (TE) was out. Sproles did not start at wide receiver all year. He does sometimes line up wide as a scatback.

Also, the next time you write a :thumbdown: response you should check the punctuation. Or dont. Don't? Do not?
The part about sproles was in regards to the comment that he had a poor performance. My point was for the last 1/4 of the season Sproles was a WR. He still lined up in the backfield on some third downs and a few other plays but as soon as Mathews was reasonably healthy they cut Sproles touches to deal with Floyd Nanee Jackson and Gates not being able to play.

Also, why would I ever check my punctuation when I have people like you to do it for me :thumbup:

 
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So before I go post a new topic, anyone want to chime in on what Tolbert would be worth, draft-pick-wise, in a rookie draft to someone who owns Matthews? I'm trying to figure out his value.

 
So before I go post a new topic, anyone want to chime in on what Tolbert would be worth, draft-pick-wise, in a rookie draft to someone who owns Matthews? I'm trying to figure out his value.
Good call not posting a new topic. You'd likely get roasted.Tolbert's rookie draft pick value to a Mathews owner is bordering on gold. Couldn't get him with a decent 2nd round pick AND players. You'll probably need to send a first.
 
'NajehHejan said:
'FavreAndAwayAnIdiot said:
So before I go post a new topic, anyone want to chime in on what Tolbert would be worth, draft-pick-wise, in a rookie draft to someone who owns Matthews? I'm trying to figure out his value.
Good call not posting a new topic. You'd likely get roasted.Tolbert's rookie draft pick value to a Mathews owner is bordering on gold. Couldn't get him with a decent 2nd round pick AND players. You'll probably need to send a first.
Sigmund was saying the shark play would be waiting until the 10th rd or later to draft Tolbert instead of drafting Mathews early. I don't think there is any conceivable way Tolbert lasts that long in a redraft. I'm guessing he will go in the 6th/7th round.
 
'NajehHejan said:
'FavreAndAwayAnIdiot said:
So before I go post a new topic, anyone want to chime in on what Tolbert would be worth, draft-pick-wise, in a rookie draft to someone who owns Matthews? I'm trying to figure out his value.
Good call not posting a new topic. You'd likely get roasted.Tolbert's rookie draft pick value to a Mathews owner is bordering on gold. Couldn't get him with a decent 2nd round pick AND players. You'll probably need to send a first.
Sigmund was saying the shark play would be waiting until the 10th rd or later to draft Tolbert instead of drafting Mathews early. I don't think there is any conceivable way Tolbert lasts that long in a redraft. I'm guessing he will go in the 6th/7th round.
not sure I agree with that, i can't even get a 2012 2nd for him in a dynasty league where I'm loaded at RB
 
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'NajehHejan said:
'FavreAndAwayAnIdiot said:
So before I go post a new topic, anyone want to chime in on what Tolbert would be worth, draft-pick-wise, in a rookie draft to someone who owns Matthews? I'm trying to figure out his value.
Good call not posting a new topic. You'd likely get roasted.Tolbert's rookie draft pick value to a Mathews owner is bordering on gold. Couldn't get him with a decent 2nd round pick AND players. You'll probably need to send a first.
Sigmund was saying the shark play would be waiting until the 10th rd or later to draft Tolbert instead of drafting Mathews early. I don't think there is any conceivable way Tolbert lasts that long in a redraft. I'm guessing he will go in the 6th/7th round.
He's routinely lasting until the 9th/10th in the 16 team survivor drafts over in Mock Drafts R Us
 
Tolbert will have a big enough role in the offense to detract from Mathews's value. But I don't think he'll have a big enough role to have fantasy value in his own right as long as Mathews is healthy. (Except maybe in TD-only leagues.)

 
Another example of why rookie RB's are overrated and 2nd year RB's are underrated. Especially when that rookie RB underperformed because of injury. I watched Tolbert last season, and i agree with the guy who compared him to Mcclain. I actually thoght Mcclain looked better, and may have kept a better(and healthier) RB on the bench.

Mathews 275 car, 1260 yards, 10 TD's, 45rec, 385 yards, 1 TD

Tolbert 100 car, 420 yards, 6 TD's, 25 rec, 210 yards, 1 TD

 
Another example of why rookie RB's are overrated and 2nd year RB's are underrated. Especially when that rookie RB underperformed because of injury. I watched Tolbert last season, and i agree with the guy who compared him to Mcclain. I actually thoght Mcclain looked better, and may have kept a better(and healthier) RB on the bench. Mathews 275 car, 1260 yards, 10 TD's, 45rec, 385 yards, 1 TDTolbert 100 car, 420 yards, 6 TD's, 25 rec, 210 yards, 1 TD
I agree that Matthews is the SOD. Last year was well last year. He was a rookie. Guys improve, think McCoy, Rice, Tomlinson. SD drafted him high because they believe in him. He showed elite talent, will get 65% of the work in an elite offense. Guys that draft based on last years stats don't bring home the titles. If you are lucky enough to draft in the top 5 slots and can snab him in the 2nd you are very fortunate.Matthews 290 1420 11 TD's , 50 Rec 400 yards 2 TD's
 
Given the recent article by Matt Waldman I figured this topic could use a bump.

I've been on board since last year and have not gotten off. Injuries and pass blocking coupled with Tolbert's ability to hold the fort down led to a disappointing rookie year for Mathews. I've got confidence that, should he be healthy all year, Mathews will put up some great numbers in that offense. It is very possible that he'll be pulled at the goal line and that will hurt, but at an ADP of 35 (RB16) all the guys in that range come with some sort of FF baggage. He and Bradshaw (ADP33) are at the front of a secondary RB run. Hillis (ADP23) kind of caps the end of the first run. I think Mathews provides a ton of value at the end of the 3rd round and I'll be looking to snag him prior to that.

SD had 418 RB rushes last year (457 as a team - 15th in the league). I look for them to run the ball a bit more if they've got two healthy and productive backs.

Mathews

270 carries, 1215 yds, 10 TD

50 rec, 350 yds, 1 TD

Tolbert

130 carries, 520 yds, 8 TD

20 rec, 140 yds, 0 TD

50 more carries sprinked about the backup RBs. Also, RB receptions as a team decrease substantially with the departure of Sproles, although Mathews could be the recipient of some of his screen passes.

 
I don't know what the split between carries will be, but I believe talent usually wins out and that Mathews will get 3rd down work. And, I also know that Mathews in the preseason was a different runner than during the regular season (sapped by a HAS). If I see the same Mathews this preseason, I think he is absolutely a good value in the 3rd round, even if he only gets 60% of the carries.

 
The Chargers love Tolbert and he is not going anywhere. When both Tolbert and Mathews were healthy in week 14 and 15, Tolbert was the primary back until the game was sewn up. I see people drafting as if Mathews will get 300+ touches and Tolbert will be a backup. Ain't gonna happen. Tolbert is going to get at least 30-40% of the work including short yardage/goal line and that's in a worst case scenario. I see something more like a true RBBC with a 10th round or later pick on Tolbert being the shark play this year.
SigNorv Turner has never been a RBBC guy, so it's doubtful he switches his coaching philosophy now.
 
Mike Tolbert= Le'Ron McClainThis sounds like the arguement for all the Rice vs McClain owners. In the end talent speaks for itself.Just like McClain faded, so will Tolbert. He is a good running fullback but not a good running back.Mathews is BY FAR the guy to have in the backfield
Agreed, also like the comparison fits great, because Mcclain had 10 tds or something like that the year Rice was a rook... Fits perfectly. matthews is the elite talent and if he can stay healthy should be good for 1200 and 12 tds 30 catches for 300 and 1-2 tds... steal in early 3rd of ppr
 
The Tolbert situation is eerily similar to the McClain one of a few years ago. FB pressed into action due to injuries who performed well garnering hype for the next season only to go back to their old role once the teams rb stable got healthy.Tolbert 2010182 carries/735 yards/11 td's/4 YPC25 rec/216 yardsMcClain 2008232 carries/902 yards/10 td's/3.9 YPC19 rec/123 yards/1 tdMcClain has gotten 37 carries a season since then.
Some key distinctions:1) Tolbert was actually a tailback in college2) SD has been known to use a multipurpose FB type in their offense a lot more than Baltimore3) SD tendered Tolbert at the 2nd round level, which shows that they value him more than as a starting fullback
I think the biggest difference is that McClain had two RBs ahead of him and no other FBs on the roster. Assuming Sproles leaves Tolbert would be the #2 RB and they could put Hester in at FB.
 
I know I'm late to the party as far as this thread goes, but something that hasn't been brought up needs to be...

Mike Tolbert is a special teams monster, maybe the best in the league at what he does on special teams... But he couldn't last year due to having to pick up a large share of the running game. I see Mathews getting 65%ish of the touches, with Tolbert peppered in. I don't see either as THE goal line back, and that it will be decided on flow of the game and if either is gassed at that point in time.

 
'Mr Rodgers neighborhood said:
I know I'm late to the party as far as this thread goes, but something that hasn't been brought up needs to be...Mike Tolbert is a special teams monster, maybe the best in the league at what he does on special teams... But he couldn't last year due to having to pick up a large share of the running game. I see Mathews getting 65%ish of the touches, with Tolbert peppered in. I don't see either as THE goal line back, and that it will be decided on flow of the game and if either is gassed at that point in time.
This. I like to add that if you are in a ppr league, then Matthews jumps considerably.
 
'Mr Rodgers neighborhood said:
I know I'm late to the party as far as this thread goes, but something that hasn't been brought up needs to be...Mike Tolbert is a special teams monster, maybe the best in the league at what he does on special teams... But he couldn't last year due to having to pick up a large share of the running game. I see Mathews getting 65%ish of the touches, with Tolbert peppered in. I don't see either as THE goal line back, and that it will be decided on flow of the game and if either is gassed at that point in time.
This. I like to add that if you are in a ppr league, then Matthews jumps considerably.
Absolutely. I'm hoping that the majority of guys in my league are as down on Mathews as everyone else seems to be. The guy had the weight of the Chargers nation on him last year by replacing Tomlinson. Give him an off season to heal, give him some sort of a training camp and I think he'll be rolling out of the gate.
 

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