If someone comes knocking I wouldn’t have said no but these were people shooting blanket offers to all eleven teams across the league asking for a first.... scum and since I can’t address those people one on one in my league without getting kicked out I hope they read it here. You are complete scum if you do this and I hope you go 6-7 this year to leave in fantasy football draft purgatory next offseason.Hot Sauce Guy said:
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What is the worst dynasty trade you have been offered? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter eakfootball
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Johnny B. Goode
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Again not the worst, but oy (FFPC)
I get
Eckler & Jamison Crowder
I give
Jonathan Taylor & Terry Mclaurin
I get
Eckler & Jamison Crowder
I give
Jonathan Taylor & Terry Mclaurin
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Agreed not the worst, but JT's FPC startup ADP (rb10) is a rd higher than Ecklers (rb14); maybe there are some who would prefer Eckler but they are few and far between.that really doesn’t seem that bad. I guess it depends how you feel about Eckler.
Crowder (wr61) is not in the same universe as Mclaurin (wr18); so again not the worst but still pretty stinky imho.
As background, I solicited offers from the lg specifically asking for picks or 2 for 1 type deals since I have a surplus of good players I need to cut or trade. So it is disappointing in that regard as well.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s because rookie running backs are typically overvalued. I saw Crowder as a toss-in, making this McClaurin+Taylor for Eck. I try to look at these less in terms of ranking or ADP and more player for player value.
Eck is a proven back with extra PPR appeal on a team that should be leaning on the run & dump-offs more (theoretically) with the change at QB & a pretty established roster otherwise.
I don’t like Taylor’s situation at all outside of the OL. Colts have a lot of good RBs. I think he’s overvalued in rookie drafts, and if I had him I’d probably either make this deal or counter with a decent 2021 pick instead of Crowder.
seems like if you could get an early pick for Scary Terry & Eck for Taylor you might be winning this deal. I’d rather have Eck than Taylor, and I’m not as high on McClaurin as some are, so I view it though that lens.
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NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
We are pretty far apart on our values here but thats what its all about so allow me a friendly retort. Just because rookie RBs may typically be overvalued doesn't mean JT is; every stud player in FF was a rookie at one time. Nothing is ever guaranteed but JT is not what can fairly be called a "typical" back coming out of college.
Eck is a small UDA who has proven he can be a 3rd down back and do well with Rivers funneling the ball to him at one of the highest rates in the nfl. Now he gets a mediocre QB who will be running rather that funneling him the ball and at some point a rookie qb. Not to mention the early 4th the team spent on a prototypical sized back in Joshua Kelley. So yeah I like Eckler a lot but I think some might be over valuing him.
I like JTs situation other than the uncertainty around future QB but fwiw his 2019 qb situation is a lot better than Ecklers. If you are drafting or trading specifically for this yr or redraft then sure I can see taking Eckler, but Dynasty? No fn way. You mention getting an early 2021 pick in place of Crowder and yes if it was a 2021 1st that would make it a lot closer but I still wouldn't do it.
Hey its all good man, thanks for the feedback!
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I didn’t say he wasn’t. But it s a crowded backfield & I expect them to use them all. i don’t see Taylor coming out as a true feature back so long as Hines & Mack are healthy. They love Hines as a receiver & they've already come out and said Mack has the edge on the starter’s gig.
that doesn’t leave a lot of room for Taylor to carve out a role. I was surprised they drafted a RB, and I thought that was one of the worst landing spots for him. Mack is only 24, so it’s not like he’s an aging veteran.
its just a far less than ideal situation for a rookie RB regardless of how special he might be.
be that as it may, he produced. Track record always matters the NFL. It doesn’t matter what the perception of Eck is in terms of size, he’s shown he can be something resembling a feature back for the Chargers. he’s definitely the receiving back, and he’s got the speed to break off huge gains.
Sometimes opportunity > ability, and Eck has the opportunity & has shown plenty of ability.
No worries - it’s all just opinions. We’ve all got one. Mine is that this deal isn’t bad enough for this topic.I could see it being more an opening salvo to a good trade for a more useful RB, but clearly you value Taylor more than i do. And of course I could be completely wrong about Taylor. Time will tell.
farfromforgotten
Footballguy
I think Ekeler has went for three 1st Rd picks in two posts in the completed trades thread. I don't really understand it but his value seems to be really high at the moment.
Edit: I found the trades.
Ekeler for 2021 2nd , 2022 1st, 2022 1st, 2022 2nd
Ekeler for 20, 21, and 22 1st Rd picks
I agree with HSG that it's not a terrible offer. I agree with NE_R that I wouldn't take it either.
Edit: I found the trades.
Ekeler for 2021 2nd , 2022 1st, 2022 1st, 2022 2nd
Ekeler for 20, 21, and 22 1st Rd picks
I agree with HSG that it's not a terrible offer. I agree with NE_R that I wouldn't take it either.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
With RB rookies it always seems like a “bird in he hand vs 2 in the (Reggie) bush”.
Eck has a job, is a feature back, and at worst he’s still a top RB asset for PPR.
Taylor is 1/3 of a committee with potential.
Fair value is often in the eye of the beholder. Well, except for most of the trash deals in this topic, of course.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
I won't disagree that it probably wasn't bad enuf for the thread (all though remember I had to give him Mclovin as well) .I didn’t say he wasn’t. But it s a crowded backfield & I expect them to use them all. i don’t see Taylor coming out as a true feature back so long as Hines & Mack are healthy. They love Hines as a receiver & they've already come out and said Mack has the edge on the starter’s gig.
that doesn’t leave a lot of room for Taylor to carve out a role. I was surprised they drafted a RB, and I thought that was one of the worst landing spots for him. Mack is only 24, so it’s not like he’s an aging veteran.
its just a far less than ideal situation for a rookie RB regardless of how special he might be.
be that as it may, he produced. Track record always matters the NFL. It doesn’t matter what the perception of Eck is in terms of size, he’s shown he can be something resembling a feature back for the Chargers. he’s definitely the receiving back, and he’s got the speed to break off huge gains.
Sometimes opportunity > ability, and Eck has the opportunity & has shown plenty of ability.
No worries - it’s all just opinions. We’ve all got one. Mine is that this deal isn’t bad enough for this topic.I could see it being more an opening salvo to a good trade for a more useful RB, but clearly you value Taylor more than i do. And of course I could be completely wrong about Taylor. Time will tell.
It does at least appear to me that you have much more focus on this yr than I do. I am not worried about Marlon Mack at all (he most likely wont b there in 2021) and truth be told I don't think much of Hines either. I expect JT will be the Colts feature back for years to come and Eckler will likely become mostly a 3rd down back. Time will tell and in the meantime I fart in your general direction
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
lolI won't disagree that it probably wasn't bad enuf for the thread (all though remember I had to give him Mclovin as well) .
It does at least appear to me that you have much more focus on this yr than I do. I am not worried about Marlon Mack at all (he most likely wont b there in 2021) and truth be told I don't think much of Hines either. I expect JT will be the Colts feature back for years to come and Eckler will likely become mostly a 3rd down back. Time will tell and in the meantime I fart in your general direction
some might be insulted, but as a Monty Python fan, I respect this response.
I try to take both short-term and long-term view. With running backs it’s a lot more challenging to predict the future these days in dynasty. Teams use multiple back sets or they rotate backs so frequently that it tends to devalue the position. True “feature back“ type players seem to be getting more and more rare.
Given the fact that the Colts have used such a rotation leads me to believe they will likely continue to do so in years to come. So regardless of whether it’s Mack and Hines, I have my doubts Taylor will become the next three down back, ~20-25 touch a game player. Not because of anything about Taylor, but because the NFL seems to be evolving away from that type of role.
So I’d likely make a counter trying to get Eck as an immediate boost to my team along with an early pick for McClaurin and let someone else take a risk on a dynasty running back.
I’ve leaned more heavily on all other positions for my dynasty team - if I get RB2 value from 2 plug & pray RBs every week my WRs, 2 QBs & TEs will carry the day. So i guess it’s more philosophical that I just don’t like investing in RBs.
if I had 1.01 right now I’d likely deal it away. Because even though every domino seems to be falling right for CEH, as sure as the sun rises in the East, I think Andy Reid will find a way to muddy it up for fantasy owners. If not this year, maybe next.
added to the shorter shelf life for RBs in general, it’s a position I don’t love to invest in.
we’ve strayed way off topic, but it’s been a fun discussion.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This is what I deal with in my Zealots leagues.
Guy is in a pretty good position to make a run for the title if he upgrades now. I offered him CEH & John Brown for Dobbins & 2021 1st. Calculators line up with this, I expected a reject but maybe a decent counter...
Instead I get an offer of David Johnson & Phillip Lindsay for CEH.
And that's why the guy has finished last in his division 7 of the last 9 years.
:sigh:
Guy is in a pretty good position to make a run for the title if he upgrades now. I offered him CEH & John Brown for Dobbins & 2021 1st. Calculators line up with this, I expected a reject but maybe a decent counter...
Instead I get an offer of David Johnson & Phillip Lindsay for CEH.
And that's why the guy has finished last in his division 7 of the last 9 years.
:sigh:
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The fact they used a valuable pick on Taylor - while trading up for him - should tell you what they really think of Mack. He's a solid but unspectacular RB. This season may be a time share for the rookie but Mack is gone as soon as the clock turns to the 2021 season when he'll be a UFA.I didn’t say he wasn’t. But it s a crowded backfield & I expect them to use them all. i don’t see Taylor coming out as a true feature back so long as Hines & Mack are healthy. They love Hines as a receiver & they've already come out and said Mack has the edge on the starter’s gig.
that doesn’t leave a lot of room for Taylor to carve out a role. I was surprised they drafted a RB, and I thought that was one of the worst landing spots for him. Mack is only 24, so it’s not like he’s an aging veteran.
its just a far less than ideal situation for a rookie RB regardless of how special he might be.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Probably correct, but what about Hines? Will the Colts commit to a true feature back or continue to employ a receiving/3rd down specialist?
There's an interesting evolution where it seems like the NFL has evolved philosophically but FF managers have not. The NFL prefers committees & employs them regardless of the talent level of the RBs on the team. They do this to have specialized roles, to keep defenses off balance, and to extend the life of a position that takes a lot of punishment.
Meanwhile we as FF managers keep acquiring players with the expectation that they'll be the next Edge James, or Marshall Faulk because a team spent a high pick on them. Reality is that you have a dude like Chubb, who in 1998 would have been a 3-down feature back/bruiser/GL stud, is relegated to 2-down duties + GL, with more of a game-script dependent role due to the presence of Kareem Hunt. Just one example but there are so many more.
Seems like the feature back role is a dying asset in FF. While true that it does elevate the value of the few true feature backs left, it also seems to give false value to prospects that we hope will become that type of player, only to lead to disappointment when they end up in some form of committee.
I don't see this changing any time soon for NFL coaches. At some point FF value for rookie RBs should probably reflect that. I get chasing RBs hoping they'll be "the next great", but it seems more and more like a fool's errand.
Anyway, that's just philosophical claptrap. Back to Taylor, maybe he is & maybe he ain't. We'll find out in 2021.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
This is not really accurate. Most RBBC approaches involve non-elite level talents. Plus you argued Ekeler was more valuable than Taylor and he's surely a committee back.
I do think Hines will still be involved in the passing game and perhaps Mack holds onto the lead role for a while - but Taylor will surely take over by 2021. Hines will take some third down work but won't kill Taylor's value.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
2020 Value. It's an important distinction. For a "win-now" approach I believe Eck is more valuable than Taylor for 2020.
I'm not saying it will kill Taylor's value, but if Hines is a ~50 reception back it certainly could prevent Taylor from being an "elite" RB, which is important to consider in the context of trade value.
That said, it seems like the goalposts keep moving in terms of what "elite" even means for a RB any more. I don't think we'll ever see another Ladanian Tomlinson / Marshall Faulk / Charlie Gardner (that one magical 1000/1000 season) or the like. It's just not the way the game is played any more.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
We currently have a whole stable of 3 down feature backs in CMc, Barkley, Elliot, Cook, A. Jones, Fournette, L. Bell, Mixon, Gurley, Ingram and we may be adding a few of these rookies like CEH to that list.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Sort of.
Of that list, Cook, CMC, Barkley seem to be the only ones who compare to "feature backs" of the past.
the rest definitely split time, lost receptions to a 3rd down option.
Gurley was a shell of his former self, and you can't be serious about Ingram - that was the most time-share backfield in the NFL & he hardly had a receiving role. I have him in Dynasty & was thrilled with his value/production, but he's not a feature back by any stretch of the imagination compared to days of yore.
This is all way off topic, but I may start one to discuss this later, whether there are truly feature backs in the NFL any more, and if so what constitutes that in 2020 compared to say, 1990. Interesting discussion.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No - they were all 3 down feature backs. Are/were they ever spelled? Of course and some more than others.
Ingram I was only talking about last season in Baltimore. In NO he was in a RBBC. Gurley is now broken down but he surely qualifies as well.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ingram split time in Baltimore last year, too. He was a 15-18 carry guy, wasn’t in on passing downs, lots of touches lost to what was a crowded backfield and that’s not even counting the QB runs by LJax.
ingram was not a 3-down feature back in Baltimore last year. I wish that he was - I might be able to get something for him in dynasty. lol
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Not a dynasty trade offer but I had to post this somewhere. I got a last minute invitation to a 10 team 2 player keeper league. It's a guy I know from work and while his league has been around for awhile, these guys aren't real diehards. I saw one player make what I can only describe as the worst fantasy move of all time. His obvious 2 keepers were Lamar Jackson in round 11 and Derrick Henry in round 4. For reasons nobody at the draft could understand, he chose not to keep Henry for a 4th. At first there were some laughs and then after we realized her was serious, there were some jokes and questions. He just said he doesn't like the Titans this year and thinks they will suck. Who did he end up taking with his late 4th round pick? Will Fuller.
So he basically traded Derrick Henry for Will Fuller. SMH. Even if you don't like Henry, keep him and trade him, you could have gotten way more than Will Fuller.
So he basically traded Derrick Henry for Will Fuller. SMH. Even if you don't like Henry, keep him and trade him, you could have gotten way more than Will Fuller.
rockaction
Footballguy
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
LOL, I also find myself going back to Will Fuller year after year as well but this was just silliness.
ETA: I am glad he screwed it up because he could have had a starting line up of Lamar/Henry/Chubb/Tyreek/Amari/Higbee/Bell/Marvin Jones. The swapping of Henry for Fuller is a real downgrade.
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kutta
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
as a follow-up to this post, obviously the Mack injury changed things a ton.
Out of the gate it looked like I was gonna he spot on with a 3-headed backfield & Taylor getting the scraps.
clearly that’s not the case going forward.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but injuries always seem to happen and the younger guys always seem to step up. When it happens, there is *always* a narrative that says it was the injury that gave the rookie the opportunity. Kareem Hunt is the classic modern example. I was and still am convinced the plan for Hunt was to be the man even before Ware got hurt. But we will never know and to cry "it was just the injury" that changed the situation ticks me off because obviously it brought the change about earlier, but Taylor was taking this thing over sooner than later. We all made this call before the injury. It's why I have so many shares of Taylor and zero of Mack. Rookie RBs win fantasy championships every year.
But injuries to the incumbent are but *one* of the many paths for an (obviously more talented) highly drafted RB. I think it sucks when people act like those of us that stock up on rookie RBs don't anticipate the chance of this kind of thing happening. Mack sucked before the injury. They moved up to get Taylor. He is the obvious one to have targeted in redraft. The fact that Mack got hurt and cemented Taylor's role is not something anyone roots for, but is still within the range of outcomes.
Ekeler? Committee specialist and a good one who *does have value*, but now in a system with Tyrod, no thanks. Blown away that a bad trade offer thread would put him over Terry *and* Taylor. Bad offer in the other direction yes.
Anyway I just had to comment because I came in to post a doozie I received and read through this and was kind of shocked. You weren't wrong about the early split but the injury doesn't vindicate a really bad take.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
This is a pseudo dynasty league bestball and TE premium that disbands after this 2020 jackpot season. I won the ship in 2019 and am off to a good start so far, and there is def some cheddar coming in on this deal, but I laughed at him and said hell no. Ironic too because this is the very first offer I have ever received to take Barkley.
I get:
Barkley, Keenan Allen, Lockett, Deejay Dallas, Jonnu Smith
I give:
Jacobs, Mostert, Julio, Slayton, Andrews
I get:
Barkley, Keenan Allen, Lockett, Deejay Dallas, Jonnu Smith
I give:
Jacobs, Mostert, Julio, Slayton, Andrews
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Injuries are unpredictable. No one could have guessed Mack would be out for the season in game 1.
my initial take was was not bad. Your post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy makes it a “bad take”.
no one knew Mack would be hurt - and had he not been hurt it would have been difficult to know if Taylor would be worth it. Applying 20-20 hindsight to that doesn’t make it a bad take.
Eck in the preseason was seen as having the same value as last year. Some argued he’d have more since Tyrod might be checking down ot throwing more screens than Rivers. Again, you apply 20-20 hindsight to a post I wrote before game 1.
not taking it the wrong way at all, but its ridiculous to say we could have expected this. Sure, injuries happen all the time. But according to your logic, anyone who drafted Golladay, Godwin, Conner, Mack, Kittle, Crowder or any of the other players missing time after (or before) week 1 was a dummy for drafting them because they should have known they’d get hurt?
cmon bro.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You should probably reject this.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
No that's not what I said. Injuries are within the range of outcomes but it is the talent we are really banking on. The range of outcomes regarding injuries is just as likely with the rookie in question as it is with the incumbent. I'm not saying we can predict when they will happen, but I am saying you don't get to use an injury to vindicate taking the guy who was painfully obviously in the act of being replaced. Mack should have been on everyones do not draft list. Along with Ingram. Not because of some prediction of injury but because they got drafted over by much better backs. *And* because this kind of thing can happen. And does. We can't predict when or even if, but there is always a (much) greater than zero chance it will. Again just as likely for the rookie as the incumbent (unless age and mileage is a factor - might be with Mack the guy had already missed a lot of games) but give me the one they drafted with more talent. Every. Time.
Anyway it was not difficult to know Mack wasn't worth it.
How about worst I've had turned down. Guy told the league he was about to take Fournette (after release) and Conley for Cohen and Chark. I texted him offering James White and Lockett (bench guys for me)....couldn't get a reply for hours so to test his resolve to ignore me I sent Ekeler and Lockett. He says "Hmmm. I'll think about it". LOL. Comes back a couple hours later and says "I like Fournette and Conley better". 
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Hot off the presses. Non-ppr IDP Zealots league
Give:
JK Dobbins
Darius Slayton
Courtland Sutton
Get:
Duke Johnson
Danny Amendola
Julio Jones
Sure, I'll take a second string RB that's scored 1.9 points, a third WR that's scored 12.7, and a 31 year old WR with hamstring issues...
Give:
JK Dobbins
Darius Slayton
Courtland Sutton
Get:
Duke Johnson
Danny Amendola
Julio Jones
Sure, I'll take a second string RB that's scored 1.9 points, a third WR that's scored 12.7, and a 31 year old WR with hamstring issues...
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I've made a trade with him, but on the last offer I replied, "I don't sell quality for quantity if I can help it and certainly not for a stud. I'm not interested in any of those players." That was back in May and it still looks bad, even with Barkley on IR.
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I don't see anything wrong with the 1st one. In fact, I would lean the other side in a start 1 QB league but I happen to think Lamar is way overvalued. Are people sticking a fork in Sutton since he's out for the year?
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Rico's Roughnecks offers Ebron, Eric PIT TE; Year 2021 Round 2 Draft Pick from Rico's Roughnecks (late)
Sticky Fingers for Taylor, Jonathan IND RB
Sticky Fingers for Taylor, Jonathan IND RB
northern exposure
Footballguy
In a 12 tm ppr start 1 QB dynasty, I got the double whammy of losing Dak to IR and Miami moving from Fitz to Tua at QB this week. My starting QB is Dalton in week 7. I started some trade discussions and was offered Brees for a 2021 2nd. Then in a series of increasingly bad trade offers (sent one right after the other, so "I had some options to consider") I was offered: 1) Bridgewater for P Rivers and a 2021 2nd. 2) Bridgewater, D Freeman and J White for Ertz and A Gibson and finally 3) Bridgewater for a 2021 1st.
So, Dalton it is!
So, Dalton it is!
Dave Stauff
Footballguy
Been at this game a long time, but I don't remember one worse: I was offered Adam Humphries and a 2021 2nd for Hopkins. Scored out at 2966-183 on the dynasty trade calculator I use. Some people weren't meant to play this game . . .
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