Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Sigmund Bloom

4(102) Jordan Cameron, TE, Cleveland

Recommended Posts

I'm seeing Cameron fall into the 4th and 5th round of rookie drafts, and loving it. He is definitely the TE with highest ceiling in this draft, and I think the Shurmur offense with pop-gun arm McCoy at the helm is a perfect situation for him to become a primary target - I think he can easily eclipse what Watson did last year in 2 or 3 years, and can come on by the end of this year a la Graham... I'm certainly targeting him in every rookie draft - he's the #1 TE value on the rookie draft board and the more I meditate on his situation, I'm wondering if he's not the #1 TE on the rookie draft board period.

I know it's a minuscule amount of plays, but you see the ups, ball skills, soft hands, and toughness to be a major weapon in the passing game.

Cleveland is going to give him every opportunity to be a huge part of their pass offense. I have a strong feeling that they had him in their top 50 players:

High Expectations for Jordan Cameron

Browns General Manager Tom Heckert thought Cameron’s profile (6-foot-5 1/4, 250 pounds, 4.5 speed in the 40, 37 1/2-inch vertical jump) and temperament made him worth a shot.

“The guy was so head and shoulders above everybody else on our board at that point,” Heckert said. “It was an easy pick for us.”

Heckert and Holmgren on Cameron

Heckert -- “I’m not saying this kid can’t come in here and help us this year. We like this kid. We think he’s talented and there’s been some receivers or tight ends in the past that have come out that have been basketball players or that didn’t have as much. This kid’s got a feel. This kid, he plays. I mean he’s been on the field. It’s not like he’s a one year player. This guy has played football. I don’t think we’re looking at it as, ‘He’s going to help us four years from now.’ We hope he helps us this year.”

Holmgren -- “I think he’s a pup first of all. He has played as Tom mentioned, but his best years are clearly ahead of him. The guy was a basketball player, a very good one, and he adapted to the football game which isn’t always easy for a basketball player at a very difficult position. The tight end position is a very difficult position. You have to have the skill of a pass receiver and the toughness of a lineman and they are asked to do a lot of things. He played against really high-level competition and he’s really a good athlete. He’s kind of lean at 250 lbs. There is a possibility of him getting a little bit bigger perhaps. The last thing is that he really wants to do this. He wants to be good at this and I like that type of attitude. I think there is a tremendous upside here for a young man who started off his life thinking he was probably going to play basketball.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked this guy before the draft, was hoping the Raiders would have nabbed him as a back-up plan for Zach Miller. The Browns TE's look like sleeper play all-around with McCoy's noodle arm. Watson/Cameron can be had for next to nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really, really interesting fantasy prospect, for sure.

And for that upside, why not take him where he is going? He is lasting waaaay too long in drafts, and a big part of it is that we haven't had free agency yet. All these veteran players have to land somewhere, and some top rookie picks' value is going to plummet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great timing for this post Bloom. just got him in the 17th round of my dynasty startup a few days ago. love his upside, and love the situation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a lot of things TEs need to do in the NFL. It does you no good to have an athletic TE on your roster, if he doesn't get playing time. He is a big project, both as an NFL player and FF option.

I think he is cleary below Rudolph and Kendricks. After that point, all of the TE prospects have big question marks - I wouldn't blame you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a great situation given the lack of WR talent on the team.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him outproduce his ADP and at this point I would say it is actually likely.

Edited by LHUCKS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't they have a project TE in evan moore already?

Cameron is a better receiving threat than Moore...which is all we care about. Edited by LHUCKS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been targeting him in the 3rd round in all my drafts. Unfortuntely in one, someone else was too and they beat me to him but at least I got him in the others. Be nice if he could be the next converted basketball player to hit as a TE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I completly understand why people would be bullish on his Dynasty outlook, I'd greatly temper your enthusiasm until 2013 when he actually has a chance to start. I also like his chances long term, but expect next to nothing this year and not much more than that in 2012.

Graham was lucky enough to have a declining Shockey in front of him. Watson is coming off the best season of his career.

He doesn't cost much, so if you have the roster spot why not draft him late. I'm more inclined to wait until the person that drafted him drops him in a year for a roster spot.

He's in no way worth close to a 17th round pick in a dynasty startup in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love his upside... This past weekend I drafted him in the 4th round at 4.2 in a 12 teamer as I did not want someone else to scoop him on me.

Oh and this is a fun piece on him as Blake Griffin clearly believes in him :)

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/04/cleveland_browns_hoping_inexpe.html

Edited by Carter_Can_Fly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I completly understand why people would be bullish on his Dynasty outlook, I'd greatly temper your enthusiasm until 2013 when he actually has a chance to start. I also like his chances long term, but expect next to nothing this year and not much more than that in 2012. Graham was lucky enough to have a declining Shockey in front of him. Watson is coming off the best season of his career. He doesn't cost much, so if you have the roster spot why not draft him late. I'm more inclined to wait until the person that drafted him drops him in a year for a roster spot. He's in no way worth close to a 17th round pick in a dynasty startup in my opinion.

Watson is prone to bouts of inconsistency, and Heckert seems to think Cameron can be ready to contribute this year. His upside is significant enough that I dont think he'll get dropped by an impatient owner unless rosters are extremely shallow or its a nonPPR league. 17th round in a startup is past pick 200, its a bit of an exaggeration to say he is "no way worth" a pick around 200-250. I can't really argue with any pick around there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a related note, I think all of the Cleveland receiving threats are sleepers due to the upside of McCoy...but I guess that's another thread.

Edited by LHUCKS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't they have a project TE in evan moore already?

Cameron is a better receiving threat than Moore...which is all we care about.
Moore has good hands and can get down the field. But he has been injury prone dating back to college, where he started out playing both football and basketball. Was originally signed by the Saints as an undrafted free agent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't they have a project TE in evan moore already?

Cameron is a better receiving threat than Moore...which is all we care about.
Moore has good hands and can get down the field. But he has been injury prone dating back to college, where he started out playing both football and basketball. Was originally signed by the Saints as an undrafted free agent.
The fact still remains, Cameron has more upside as a receiver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't they have a project TE in evan moore already?

Cameron is a better receiving threat than Moore...which is all we care about.
Moore has good hands and can get down the field. But he has been injury prone dating back to college, where he started out playing both football and basketball. Was originally signed by the Saints as an undrafted free agent.

Whoop, there's the magic word! Bump Evan Moore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moore could have a future in this offense for sure, but I think it is as a WR, not a TE

isn't that what he played in college? seems like he just doesn't have blocking skillsI grabbed Cameron at 5.04 and I was amazed he was still available. Hopefully I can find a spot for him on my roster as I drafted Graham last year and it paid off as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.

He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.

I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Edited by Couch Potato

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm certainly targeting him in every rookie draft

What changed in the past 2 weeks? Or is the early 4th too early?

4.03 Bloom - Lewis, Dion PHI RB...4.07 80's Hair Band - Cameron, Jordan CLE TE

Edited by FUBAR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

I agree with your point, but let's say you used your 4th or 5th round picks on all of these guys in the last few years, ended up with only Finley and Graham being worthwhile. Wouldn't that be a fair return?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm certainly targeting him in every rookie draft

What changed in the past 2 weeks? Or is the early 4th too early?

4.03 Bloom - Lewis, Dion PHI RB...4.07 80's Hair Band - Cameron, Jordan CLE TE

No nothing changed. I got cute with that draft because I thought Cameron would fall to my early 5th. RBs scoring is also supercharged, so I couldn't ignore Lewis there. I was just looking at that draft and lamenting that. I think the recipe for getting Cameron right now is one-half to a full round after Rudolph and Kendricks go off the board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Can't you just fill in the blanks with any round and position?If you draft a ____ round ______ , you might get successes like _____,_____, and _____ but there are also failures like _______,_________,________,________ and ________ - obviously the chances of a player hitting get lower the deeper you go in the draft, but some hit. We meet in places like the Shark Pool to talk about which ones we think will hit and why. I'm not really sure what this adds to the discussion about Cameron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't they have a project TE in evan moore already?

Cameron is a better receiving threat than Moore...which is all we care about.
I see it exactly the opposite actually. Moore is basically a WR playing TE which limits him to almost all passing downs. Cameron may be a "receiving" TE, but not to the extreme of Moore and I think that should get him (Cameron) on the field more.In some ways, I like both guys for dynasty, but in reality they're likely in a 3 way time share that will turn into a 2 way time share eventually. It does make you wonder what (if anything) the Browns have in mind for Moore when they go out and draft another catch-first tight end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great timing for this post Bloom. just got him in the 17th round of my dynasty startup a few days ago. love his upside, and love the situation

That might have been a bit of a reach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy Sig I dunno since you are talking about Cameron being THIS YEAR'S version of a TE sleeper. I think he's worth a long term flyer but the Browns will be breaking in Greg Little and they seem high on Carlton Mitchell and both Mo-Mass and Robie haven't yet established themselves so I think that the staff would tend to lean moreso on Ben Watson and Evan Moore.

Jordan only had a dozen receptions last year and that was his career high, he's very raw and making the trasition from hoops. It took Gates a good year or two before he blew up. Also Colt McCoy isn't Drew Brees and Ben Watson is healthy as is Moore so the comparison with Jimmy doesn't work on a number of levels IMHO.

I agree that he's got the raw skills to turn into something but I would caution that ANY rookie WR or TE will struggle this year if the lockout lingers and training camp is missed. Check the long-term history of rookie TEs. Todd Heap took a year before he found his footing. Heath Miller, Dallas Clark, heck it took Mercedes Lewis three or four years before he hit his stride and we still haven't had a full year yet of Jerimichael Finely so I would pull back expectations of Jordan Cameron for this year. I think next year would be a much better outlook and would give people a head's up later in the season so they could target him for next year.

I think anyone buying early might find him difficult to hold on the bench and that he would be a tough start so he may find the waiver wire late next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Can't you just fill in the blanks with any round and position?If you draft a ____ round ______ , you might get successes like _____,_____, and _____ but there are also failures like _______,_________,________,________ and ________ - obviously the chances of a player hitting get lower the deeper you go in the draft, but some hit. We meet in places like the Shark Pool to talk about which ones we think will hit and why. I'm not really sure what this adds to the discussion about Cameron.
I think it does add to the discussion, because year after year I see owners in rookie drafts drop perfectly useful players in round 4 for reaches just because the rookie is the shiny new toy. I picked up Sproles (PPR) and Decker just this year after they were dropped in favor of rookies that probably won't ever see the light of day. People read about the upside possibilities and forget that the odds of a guy like Cameron becoming useful are not in their favor. I never said he can't become someone, but it hurts no one to be reminded of the reality of the situation. Roster space is not unlimited, drops need to be considered, so yes, I do think a contrarian voice coming in to turn down the giddiness a bit is useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was planning on starting a thread on a guy once most of my drafts were done and will probably do so a little later, but I'll go ahead and add some of it here as I think it's relevant.

Housler is another TE that is going even later than Cameron and who has even more going for him, IMO.

I'll get the Housler Hype thread up soon......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

I agree with your point, but let's say you used your 4th or 5th round picks on all of these guys in the last few years, ended up with only Finley and Graham being worthwhile. Wouldn't that be a fair return?
Do you have room to add all these guys, and all the RBs and WRs and QBs in whatever quantities you want, that might someday possibly become something? I know I don't. All my teams have rosters full of good upside and/or or currently productive players already, and I have to make choices. Sometimes that choice is to not use the pick at all because what I own has as good a chance or better as the rookie at hitting, and is one year closer to doing so. Too many owners feel the need to use all their picks when they shouldn't, and dump better prospects already rostered to do so, just because they are in the middle of their rookie drafts and they want to see everyone as potential successes. But what ends up happening later? The 4th round rookie ends up getting cut after Week 2 of the season for the latest flavor of the day player who had a decent game, and neither of those two have as much real potential as the player cut to draft the rookie. No real plan, a net loss, and a cycle I see every year. So you have to make a commitment to a Finley or a Graham or a Cameron (or one of the many busts) or don't bother, because you won't know a thing after Week 2 or 4 or probably 10, or likely until into Year 2. I'll mention here that in almost all my leagues Finley was sitting on the WW after his rookie year as few wanted him and fewer saw what was to come. You can't simply grab all the possibles and throw out the busts later. It just doesn't work that way. Edited by Couch Potato

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy Sig I dunno since you are talking about Cameron being THIS YEAR'S version of a TE sleeper. I think he's worth a long term flyer but the Browns will be breaking in Greg Little and they seem high on Carlton Mitchell and both Mo-Mass and Robie haven't yet established themselves so I think that the staff would tend to lean moreso on Ben Watson and Evan Moore.Jordan only had a dozen receptions last year and that was his career high, he's very raw and making the trasition from hoops. It took Gates a good year or two before he blew up. Also Colt McCoy isn't Drew Brees and Ben Watson is healthy as is Moore so the comparison with Jimmy doesn't work on a number of levels IMHO.I agree that he's got the raw skills to turn into something but I would caution that ANY rookie WR or TE will struggle this year if the lockout lingers and training camp is missed. Check the long-term history of rookie TEs. Todd Heap took a year before he found his footing. Heath Miller, Dallas Clark, heck it took Mercedes Lewis three or four years before he hit his stride and we still haven't had a full year yet of Jerimichael Finely so I would pull back expectations of Jordan Cameron for this year. I think next year would be a much better outlook and would give people a head's up later in the season so they could target him for next year.I think anyone buying early might find him difficult to hold on the bench and that he would be a tough start so he may find the waiver wire late next year.

I hear you, Bracie, and I would have heartily agreed at the moment Cameron was drafted - in fact, there's absolutely no way he should be drafted or even stashed in a redraft league this year. Still, you have to at least be open to the possibility of Cameron coming on in Nov/Dec a la Graham because of Heckert explicitly saying that they think Cameron can help this year. Graham is also a good counter to the idea that Cameron can not possibly "arrive" this year. Graham was just as raw and inexperienced with just as little production as Cameron coming into last season. Great point, however, on the lockout really reducing the chances of Cameron reproducing Graham's late season breakout - still red zone receiving is a pretty instinctive part of the game, so Cameron might find his way on the field in high value fantasy situations without much seasoning.As far as young TEs taking a long time to make an impact, we had Gresham and Gronk making a decent to large-sized splash even though they were coming in off of long layoffs, and Hernandez also made an early impact. So recent data tends to show that we shouldn't automatically rule out a rookie TE putting up some #s. Not saying that I expect Cameron to by any stretch of the imagination, just addressing the larger points you brought up.As far as Cameron getting dropped before he has a chance to make an impact - one factor that might make that less likely is the relative paucity of upside TEs to stash away right now. Guys like Nelson, Coffman, and Zach Miller JAX have stalled out in their development (for now) so there is probably a "TE of the future" spot open on some rosters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Can't you just fill in the blanks with any round and position?If you draft a ____ round ______ , you might get successes like _____,_____, and _____ but there are also failures like _______,_________,________,________ and ________ - obviously the chances of a player hitting get lower the deeper you go in the draft, but some hit. We meet in places like the Shark Pool to talk about which ones we think will hit and why. I'm not really sure what this adds to the discussion about Cameron.
I think it does add to the discussion, because year after year I see owners in rookie drafts drop perfectly useful players in round 4 for reaches just because the rookie is the shiny new toy. I picked up Sproles (PPR) and Decker just this year after they were dropped in favor of rookies that probably won't ever see the light of day. People read about the upside possibilities and forget that the odds of a guy like Cameron becoming useful are not in their favor. I never said he can't become someone, but it hurts no one to be reminded of the reality of the situation. Roster space is not unlimited, drops need to be considered, so yes, I do think a contrarian voice coming in to turn down the giddiness a bit is useful.
I think you're right, but you're completely changing the framework of this discussion. I have said on multiple occasions recently on this board (and I think on the show) that vets are grossly undervalued in mixed vet/FA drafts. I would never advocate dropping Decker or Sproles for Cameron except possibly in a deep TE premium league. If people want to talk "would you rather roster player X or Cameron", Im happy to entertain that, too. This thread was started to talk about Cameron's value in relation to other rookies in the context of a rookie draft, but that is absolutely relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't simply grab all the possibles and throw out the busts later. It just doesn't work that way.

Without a doubt, which is why we discuss the upside and situation of the possibles to determine which ones are worth grabbing and which ones to pass on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was planning on starting a thread on a guy once most of my drafts were done and will probably do so a little later, but I'll go ahead and add some of it here as I think it's relevant. Housler is another TE that is going even later than Cameron and who has even more going for him, IMO.I'll get the Housler Hype thread up soon......

Housler could be very interesting if ARI does indeed trade for Kolb, as Kolb loved throwing to Celek. Housler adjusts well to the ball in flight and I like his tough running after the catch, although he has more of a WR build and Im not sure he can block out and compete for the ball in the air like Cameron can. He's not quite as fluid or big as Cameron, so I prefer Cameron, but Housler is one to watch with Doucet's durability issues. There's a decent chance that he or Roberts will be that #2 to Fitz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

I agree with your point, but let's say you used your 4th or 5th round picks on all of these guys in the last few years, ended up with only Finley and Graham being worthwhile. Wouldn't that be a fair return?
Do you have room to add all these guys, and all the RBs and WRs and QBs in whatever quantities you want, that might someday possibly become something? I know I don't. All my teams have rosters full of good upside and/or or currently productive players already, and I have to make choices. Sometimes that choice is to not use the pick at all because what I own has as good a chance or better as the rookie at hitting, and is one year closer to doing so.
of course not, I'm simply stating that the hit rate of TEs there seems better than other offensive positions. Presuming rookie only and you have room to roster the 4th or 5th round pick, I'll probably take a high upside TE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too bad Cleveland doesn't play New Orleans this year, or we could see Jordan Cameron tackled by Cameron Jordan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great timing for this post Bloom. just got him in the 17th round of my dynasty startup a few days ago. love his upside, and love the situation

That might have been a bit of a reach.
Yeah maybe, rookies were flying off the board so I felt like if I wanted him I had to grab him

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy Sig I dunno since you are talking about Cameron being THIS YEAR'S version of a TE sleeper. I think he's worth a long term flyer but the Browns will be breaking in Greg Little and they seem high on Carlton Mitchell and both Mo-Mass and Robie haven't yet established themselves so I think that the staff would tend to lean moreso on Ben Watson and Evan Moore.Jordan only had a dozen receptions last year and that was his career high, he's very raw and making the trasition from hoops. It took Gates a good year or two before he blew up. Also Colt McCoy isn't Drew Brees and Ben Watson is healthy as is Moore so the comparison with Jimmy doesn't work on a number of levels IMHO.I agree that he's got the raw skills to turn into something but I would caution that ANY rookie WR or TE will struggle this year if the lockout lingers and training camp is missed. Check the long-term history of rookie TEs. Todd Heap took a year before he found his footing. Heath Miller, Dallas Clark, heck it took Mercedes Lewis three or four years before he hit his stride and we still haven't had a full year yet of Jerimichael Finely so I would pull back expectations of Jordan Cameron for this year. I think next year would be a much better outlook and would give people a head's up later in the season so they could target him for next year.I think anyone buying early might find him difficult to hold on the bench and that he would be a tough start so he may find the waiver wire late next year.

I don't think many are expecting Finley type numbers this year. I think for most if they are drafting Jordan Cameron they are drating him for his future success. Probably a 2 or 3 year project but could be well worth the wait. I play only in dynastly leagues with deep rosters so I can afford to have him sit for a year or two and wait for him to develop and I think that is what most Cameron owners are doing when drafting him. With the lockout its going to be hard for a rookie TE to come in this year and be extremly succesful but I would definatly watch out for year 2 for Cameron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy Sig I dunno since you are talking about Cameron being THIS YEAR'S version of a TE sleeper. I think he's worth a long term flyer but the Browns will be breaking in Greg Little and they seem high on Carlton Mitchell and both Mo-Mass and Robie haven't yet established themselves so I think that the staff would tend to lean moreso on Ben Watson and Evan Moore.Jordan only had a dozen receptions last year and that was his career high, he's very raw and making the trasition from hoops. It took Gates a good year or two before he blew up. Also Colt McCoy isn't Drew Brees and Ben Watson is healthy as is Moore so the comparison with Jimmy doesn't work on a number of levels IMHO.I agree that he's got the raw skills to turn into something but I would caution that ANY rookie WR or TE will struggle this year if the lockout lingers and training camp is missed. Check the long-term history of rookie TEs. Todd Heap took a year before he found his footing. Heath Miller, Dallas Clark, heck it took Mercedes Lewis three or four years before he hit his stride and we still haven't had a full year yet of Jerimichael Finely so I would pull back expectations of Jordan Cameron for this year. I think next year would be a much better outlook and would give people a head's up later in the season so they could target him for next year.I think anyone buying early might find him difficult to hold on the bench and that he would be a tough start so he may find the waiver wire late next year.

I hear you, Bracie, and I would have heartily agreed at the moment Cameron was drafted - in fact, there's absolutely no way he should be drafted or even stashed in a redraft league this year. Still, you have to at least be open to the possibility of Cameron coming on in Nov/Dec a la Graham because of Heckert explicitly saying that they think Cameron can help this year. Graham is also a good counter to the idea that Cameron can not possibly "arrive" this year. Graham was just as raw and inexperienced with just as little production as Cameron coming into last season. Great point, however, on the lockout really reducing the chances of Cameron reproducing Graham's late season breakout - still red zone receiving is a pretty instinctive part of the game, so Cameron might find his way on the field in high value fantasy situations without much seasoning.As far as young TEs taking a long time to make an impact, we had Gresham and Gronk making a decent to large-sized splash even though they were coming in off of long layoffs, and Hernandez also made an early impact. So recent data tends to show that we shouldn't automatically rule out a rookie TE putting up some #s. Not saying that I expect Cameron to by any stretch of the imagination, just addressing the larger points you brought up.As far as Cameron getting dropped before he has a chance to make an impact - one factor that might make that less likely is the relative paucity of upside TEs to stash away right now. Guys like Nelson, Coffman, and Zach Miller JAX have stalled out in their development (for now) so there is probably a "TE of the future" spot open on some rosters.
I think that the lockout will have an adverse effect on the development of certain players.The FF community knows that RBs can make the quickest/earliest impact but WRs/TEs tend to take longer to make an impact.You are known for the term "MY BALL MENTALITY" that mentally gives a perfect picture of a receiver who goes up with the focused intent or 'clarity' that the ball in the air is HIS BALL and he will fight-and-scratch-and-kick to get HIS BALL.Jordan Cameron only had 12 receptions last year and that was his career high. A "MY BALL" mentality extends further than just the red-zone or from a core of athletic skills. A true "MY BALLER" can extend to a personality like a TO or an Ocho or Carolina Steve Smith, etc et el but someone like an Andre Johnson also has the "MY BALL" trait without the personality. The thing they share is undeniable production which does more than hint at "MY BALL" personality. I think the body of work on the field let alone in the red-zone is difficult to extrapolate at this time.Gronk has Tom Brady and he was a rookie TE going into a proven offense competing with another rookie TE for PT. Jordan Cameron's situation isn't anything like that so again the comparison doesn't work IMHO.I think you make an excellent point on the sheer numbers of rookie TEs coming into the league this year compared with last year but I would go back to the fact that rookie TEs tend to take longer to cultivate and I think that this year is unique and will adversely impact rookie WRs and TEs where a late-season bounce is less likely especially for a rookie with little production making a transition from hoops and who has an unsure offense/QB and who is competing with a proven veteran and I also think Evan Moore is effective.Having said that the staff must have a good idea on how they plan on developing him and utilising his skills. I just feel that this year is unique and that rookie WRs and TEs will be much harder to get a good read on and that a raw guy like Cameron will not be prodcutive early and will be difficult to roster since I don't see him making an early or consistent impact.I think anyone who nabs him will be in a pickle later in the year especially if they have been hit by injuries at other positions and have to make difficult roster decisions for a playoff run. I think THAT is the time to target a guy like Jordan Cameron because I think he would be a great late season waiver wire pick-up to judiciously acquire with the intention of developing him for the 2012 season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Has Fendi Onobun "busted" yet? He was drafted by the Rams as a developmental guy and thats what he's done. I think it's too early to label Onobun a waste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Luke Stocker a better prospect than Cameron?

I don't see how. Stocker's ceiling is pretty much an average TE, on that fringe of TE1/TE2 status. Cameron's ceiling is Finley/Graham/etc. Now he may have lower odds of reaching that ceiling, but he is still a much better late round gamble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Sig,

Does Cameron have significantly more upside than Thomas based solely on talent, ignoring for a second the "Green" factor with Thomas? ( I was pumped when Denver traded up to draft Thomas, but went "huh???" when they drafted Green in the 7th.)

Both Cameron and Thomas are ex-basketball players with lots of athletic ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Sig,Does Cameron have significantly more upside than Thomas based solely on talent, ignoring for a second the "Green" factor with Thomas? ( I was pumped when Denver traded up to draft Thomas, but went "huh???" when they drafted Green in the 7th.)Both Cameron and Thomas are ex-basketball players with lots of athletic ability.

Very similar players, I even had Thomas a tick ahead of Cameron in my pre-draft 100. Problem with Thomas is Fox's history of neglecting the TE and splitting up the role in the passing game, and the drafting of Green. Looks like Barnidge/Rosario/King to me, with Thomas in more of the King role. If Thomas had been drafted in the 4th by Cleveland with Heckert/Holmgren's accompanying comments, this thread would have been about him...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Luke Stocker a better prospect than Cameron?

I don't see how. Stocker's ceiling is pretty much an average TE, on that fringe of TE1/TE2 status. Cameron's ceiling is Finley/Graham/etc. Now he may have lower odds of reaching that ceiling, but he is still a much better late round gamble.
Yup, Kevin Boss/Bo Scaife is his ceiling. No thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Has Fendi Onobun "busted" yet? He was drafted by the Rams as a developmental guy and thats what he's done. I think it's too early to label Onobun a waste.
I'd say the drafting of Kendricks hurts a lot. I wouldn't drop him in TE premium leagues just yet, but in every other league, he's a drop, with a potential re-add if he makes the 53 - I will say the McDaniels offense allows for a higher upside now that he seems open to using TEs like NE did last year. Onobun has the raw ability to be a better receiver than Kendricks even, but he's way behind in terms of football development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this Fendi Onobun redux though? Former BB player, project, non-premium draft pick, possible bright future if the guy can develop... and then a true starter gets drafted in the next year or two and makes the fantasy roster spot held open for an entire year for the project player a waste.He could be Finley or Graham, or he could be dozens of 3rd - 5th round TEs like Chase Coffman, Travis Beckum, Shawn Nelson, James Casey, Cornelius Ingram from 2009, or Brad Cottam, Martin Rucker, Gary Barnidge from 2008, or (pick a year) who seem to have promise yet end up on the backup TE scrap heap. Lots more misses than hits in these rounds for TEs.I'm not trying to be a big downer. There are the Grahams and Finleys and so forth, but it's really a dart throw at this point with a guy like Cameron and owners should not have high expectations. If you choose to own him and he pans out, be pleasantly surprised.

Has Fendi Onobun "busted" yet? He was drafted by the Rams as a developmental guy and thats what he's done. I think it's too early to label Onobun a waste.
I'll keep an eye on things in STL as I do everywhere, but the shine is off now for Onobun. He's no longer rosterable. If you want to burn a roster spot on him after the drafting of Kendricks in the 2nd round, go for it. My roster spots are a helluva lot more valuable that that.And why would you burn a roster spot now on a guy you can get off the WW any time you please? That's what I don't get with some owners. That spot can be so much more useful if only to hold a player that has some trade value as part of a deal. Edited by Couch Potato

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Luke Stocker a better prospect than Cameron?

I don't see how. Stocker's ceiling is pretty much an average TE, on that fringe of TE1/TE2 status. Cameron's ceiling is Finley/Graham/etc. Now he may have lower odds of reaching that ceiling, but he is still a much better late round gamble.
Yup, Kevin Boss/Bo Scaife is his ceiling. No thanks.
Luke Stocker is slowwwwwwwwwwwwBo Scaife is more athleticI've compared him to Boss and it seems about a perfect matchhe's one of those guys that will be a better NFL player than fantasy player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't Luke Stocker a better prospect than Cameron?

I think so, Stocker is a complete TE and has a great young QB to grow with and a veteran TE in front of him that is 1 weird tackle away from the end of his career due to how bad his knees are. I also like Williams from the Packers quite a bit, if Finley were to go down, he will be the top scoring rookie TE, he has the total game and is a great person on top of it, he just is not a blazer. Here is a little video on Williams, worth a look if you like the feel good stories:http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/26601/packers-the-story-of-d-j-williams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.