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Sigmund Bloom

4(102) Jordan Cameron, TE, Cleveland

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I don't think I'd take a 2nd for him today. He's worth more to my team week to week.

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I'd take a 2nd if I though it wasn't going to be one of the last 2-4 picks in the round.

You've got a guy that has had his melon mushed a few times and has had some nagging stuff. He's on a team where everyone, everyday is talking about 3-4 potential breakout players. That's a lot of mouths to consistently feed at some point. They can't all be that valuable and TE isn't the most featured role in the NFL.

Not saying he won't live up to some people's expectations but I think the odds he doesn't are a good amount more than the odds he does. From a FF perspective, I take the 2nd because on any given year, I know I can turn that into a DeSean Jackson, a Funchess, a David Coob/David Johnson, a QB sometimes. You have flexibility. Cameron, to me, is a guy that might easily be as fungible as 8-9 other TEs in the league drafting at very similar spots.

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I'd take a 2nd if I though it wasn't going to be one of the last 2-4 picks in the round.

You've got a guy that has had his melon mushed a few times and has had some nagging stuff. He's on a team where everyone, everyday is talking about 3-4 potential breakout players. That's a lot of mouths to consistently feed at some point. They can't all be that valuable and TE isn't the most featured role in the NFL.

Not saying he won't live up to some people's expectations but I think the odds he doesn't are a good amount more than the odds he does. From a FF perspective, I take the 2nd because on any given year, I know I can turn that into a DeSean Jackson, a Funchess, a David Coob/David Johnson, a QB sometimes. You have flexibility. Cameron, to me, is a guy that might easily be as fungible as 8-9 other TEs in the league drafting at very similar spots.

I'm not giving up a young top 10 TE for a 2nd - most of those are busts anyway.

Here's what Tannehill is saying about him:

"He's doing everything I could ask for right now," Tannehill told reporters via the Sun Sentinel. "He's a big playmaker for us, and honestly, we'd like to get him the ball probably a little bit more than he's getting it right now. We saw a few big catches in the scrimmage ... in the red zone he's definitely going to be a threat for us all year."

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I'd take a 2nd if I though it wasn't going to be one of the last 2-4 picks in the round.

You've got a guy that has had his melon mushed a few times and has had some nagging stuff. He's on a team where everyone, everyday is talking about 3-4 potential breakout players. That's a lot of mouths to consistently feed at some point. They can't all be that valuable and TE isn't the most featured role in the NFL.

Not saying he won't live up to some people's expectations but I think the odds he doesn't are a good amount more than the odds he does. From a FF perspective, I take the 2nd because on any given year, I know I can turn that into a DeSean Jackson, a Funchess, a David Coob/David Johnson, a QB sometimes. You have flexibility. Cameron, to me, is a guy that might easily be as fungible as 8-9 other TEs in the league drafting at very similar spots.

I'm not giving up a young top 10 TE for a 2nd - most of those are busts anyway.

Here's what Tannehill is saying about him:

"He's doing everything I could ask for right now," Tannehill told reporters via the Sun Sentinel. "He's a big playmaker for us, and honestly, we'd like to get him the ball probably a little bit more than he's getting it right now. We saw a few big catches in the scrimmage ... in the red zone he's definitely going to be a threat for us all year."

I don't know what the phrase for it is but I think that is where a lot of people stumble, when you hear people being labeled as something and then you buy it as the truth. Saying he is a top 10 TE, especially without strongly considering his injury history and playing competition/environment, is not a good idea.

Just 5 years ago, the "consensus" top 10 dynasty TEs included Brent Celek, Jermichael Finley, Owen Daniels, Zach Miller (Oak), Kellen Winslow and Vernon Davis. That's half the list and where are ANY of those guys today and from a position that has about as much longevity as any?

Just 3 years ago, that list included Gresham, Finley, Fred Davis, C. Fleener, B. Pettigrew, L. Green. Again, over half the list and I was honestly surprised J. Cook wasn't in that projection. And Ladarius Green. Have we really been calling him a top 10 dynasty TE waiting to happen for 3 years?

Again, not saying he won't be what some think he is but just saying to be careful before just accepting it as gospel because the trend shows that the odds are not in your favor if you have been around 4-5 years and haven't made that leap yet.

Now 2nd rounders are certainly hits and misses but I know that in any given May, if I hold a top 20 draft pick in a dynasty, there is REAL value there, regardless of whether I use it on finding DJAX, Gronk, or if I sell it to the guy who uses it to do the same or waste it on B. Pettigrew.

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Cameron has actually produced at a high level when not injured, plus he's on a better team now. That's why he gets one more shot at being a top dynasty prospect.

The only concern is injury, but it's a big one (the chance of his brain turning to jello on the next helmt-to-helmet contact). He could be playing Madden at Jahvid Best's house by the end of the season.

His talent is worth the risk to me though.

Edited by LittlePhatty

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Injuries are a real concern but he's very talented and produces when healthy.

He's also on a short list of TE's who have caught 80+ passes in the past 5 years: Gronk, Graham, Gonzo, Witten, Olsen, Pettigrew, and Cameron. The one that stands out on that list is Pettigrew, but he's not the athlete Cameron is.

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My concern is targets.

Wallace and Hartline (178 targets last year) have been replaced by Stills, Jennings, and rookie Parker who was just take off PUP after surgery in June.

I expect Landry to lead the team in targets but see no reason while Cameron can get 100+ himself (if healthy of course).

Edited by cstu

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Don't forget to add in the 84 that Clay had last year.

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Don't forget to add in the 84 that Clay had last year.

Yeah, I guess I'm not sold that his targets will be any greater than Clay's.

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Don't forget to add in the 84 that Clay had last year.

Yeah, I guess I'm not sold that his targets will be any greater than Clay's.

IF he's healthy, he's easily good for at least 1 more per game, which puts him squarely at 100. I just don't think Clay is half the talent that Cameron is.

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Don't forget to add in the 84 that Clay had last year.

Yeah, I guess I'm not sold that his targets will be any greater than Clay's.

IF he's healthy, he's easily good for at least 1 more per game, which puts him squarely at 100. I just don't think Clay is half the talent that Cameron is.

That seems reasonable.

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The thing is do you take Cameron at his ADP or do you wait for another TE you are comfortable with? If there is a QB you really like maybe you take the QB. At this point you probably took the majority of your starting unit. If you think the dropoff could be little to none to a guy like Julius, Witten, Eifert, Ertz, then you can grab a QB or keep taking RB/WR.

Edited by Fantasysports1

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So is anyone still sitting on this turd blossom? He hasn't had more than 35 yards since Week 2. I've watched the Dolphins last two games, and he's simply not involved in the offense. His "big" catch last night was on a broken down play.

Worst part is I've had to keep rolling him out there with Gates hurt. If Gates is out again I may just drop him for a JAG like Gillmore, or maybe invest in Walford's upside. It wouldn't take much for either of them to exceed Cameron's 2/34.

Edited by zftcg

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This thread title still says Cleveland, so that's a pretty good indicator of how relevant he is this year.

Watching the game last night, I saw him *almost* make a very athletic "twist around, reach over two defenders' helmets" grab at the ball, which he had in his hands briefly before a helmet knocked it out. It was just a brief reminder of his potential. I still think the Miami offense is stacked with talent. They just aren't churning out performances that match.

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This thread title still says Cleveland, so that's a pretty good indicator of how relevant he is this year.

Watching the game last night, I saw him *almost* make a very athletic "twist around, reach over two defenders' helmets" grab at the ball, which he had in his hands briefly before a helmet knocked it out. It was just a brief reminder of his potential. I still think the Miami offense is stacked with talent. They just aren't churning out performances that match.

Except that even last week, when they were blowing out Houston, he was barely targeted. It was all screens and quick slants -- which obviously worked well -- but those simply aren't his strengths.

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It was a down year for Cameron but I still think he can produce. I like that he stayed with Gase and I like even more that Gase said they are planning to make plays that suit Cameron more and he thought he was not used well by Dolphins coaching staff. Now, I think he's a sleeper and if you get him cheap I would acquire him if the price is right.

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1 hour ago, Biabreakable said:

So, we are lead to believe without it ever being addressed that the reason for Cameron taking a nose dive in production was the coaching/scheme fault? He did take some personal responsibility in talking about the timing (sort of). I didn't watch any Dolphin games- does this ring true or is this going to be a case of misplaced hope?

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8 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

So, we are lead to believe without it ever being addressed that the reason for Cameron taking a nose dive in production was the coaching/scheme fault? He did take some personal responsibility in talking about the timing (sort of). I didn't watch any Dolphin games- does this ring true or is this going to be a case of misplaced hope?

he had a crazy good first 4 games in 2013 (i believe), athletically he has the tools you want a passing catch TE to have... it's not hard to buy in to this gase optimism, especially considering how barren TE is outside of the top 6 guys... you're looking for reason to hope for a cheap TE to come through for you.

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9 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

So, we are lead to believe without it ever being addressed that the reason for Cameron taking a nose dive in production was the coaching/scheme fault? He did take some personal responsibility in talking about the timing (sort of). I didn't watch any Dolphin games- does this ring true or is this going to be a case of misplaced hope?

Honestly I don't know. I just saw the article so thought it was worth mentioning. No one has been talking about Cameron since he went to Miami in this thread.

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8. MIA - TE Jordan Cameron excited about new coach

Source: ESPN.com - James Walker

Miami Dolphins TE Jordan Cameron said he is excited to play for head coach Adam Gase because he has had success with tight ends in the past.

[ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ FOOTBALLGUYS VIEW ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ] ]

We are super excited about the Dolphins offense under the guiding hand of Gase. He has a high-powered offense that has put up great fantasy numbers for both the Broncos and the Bears. With Gase calling the shots, we expect better numbers from Cameron--so long as he can stay healthy. Cameron is built a lot like Julius Thomas...and it was Thomas who became a top-5 fantasy TE under Gase with the Broncos in 2013. Like Thomas, Cameron is a former basketball star who transitioned to play one year of college football. While Thomas has shined (when healthy), we have yet to see Cameron truly play up to his enormous potential. He could easily outperform his current ADP of TE18 (13.07) in 12-team PPR leagues.

From Joes email a couple days ago.

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2015 at 1:18 PM, cstu said:

I'm not giving up a young top 10 TE for a 2nd - most of those are busts anyway.

Here's what Tannehill is saying about him:

Still feel the same now?

 

What's his price today? Asking because @Fireinsideis asking in a post above. 

To me, I have the same opinion as before: Looking back at how quickly the top 10 change in fantasy at the position, I don't think he is all that special, add to it that there are a lot of potential mouths to feed and I just can't see him being "featured".  Certainly not to the tune of 100 balls or anything.  The Dolphins can't do half of what they are talking up unless they become the 2nd coming of the Greatest show on turf.  They want to run it..alot. They want that runner to catch balls. They are raving about Parker. They are raving about Landry.  They love their new guy and have plans for him.  Do they never plan to be on defense?  To buy into the Phins makes me think I should be a Tannehill owner.

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11 minutes ago, Shutout said:

Still feel the same now?

 

What's his price today? Asking because @Fireinsideis asking in a post above. 

To me, I have the same opinion as before: Looking back at how quickly the top 10 change in fantasy at the position, I don't think he is all that special, add to it that there are a lot of potential mouths to feed and I just can't see him being "featured".  Certainly not to the tune of 100 balls or anything.  The Dolphins can't do half of what they are talking up unless they become the 2nd coming of the Greatest show on turf.  They want to run it..alot. They want that runner to catch balls. They are raving about Parker. They are raving about Landry.  They love their new guy and have plans for him.  Do they never plan to be on defense?  To buy into the Phins makes me think I should be a Tannehill owner.

I am not so much worried about the mouths to feed- there certainly were a number of them in Denver and Thomas flourished because of that (IMO) in the Gase system. My concern is more about the player (health mostly) and his QB (Has Tannehill ever thrown to a TE?).

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11 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I am not so much worried about the mouths to feed- there certainly were a number of them in Denver and Thomas flourished because of that (IMO) in the Gase system. My concern is more about the player (health mostly) and his QB (Has Tannehill ever thrown to a TE?).

I think it work mostly in Denver because Peyton Manning was on fire at the time. I don't think Tannehill can fill those shoes in that way plus Demaryius Thomas commanded a unique type of attention I don't think the Dolphins have yet. 

The health issue has always been a big issue to me with this player. I don't see it talked about too much (not more than a usual player but I think it should be). 

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39 minutes ago, Shutout said:

Still feel the same now?

 

What's his price today? Asking because @Fireinsideis asking in a post above. 

To me, I have the same opinion as before: Looking back at how quickly the top 10 change in fantasy at the position, I don't think he is all that special, add to it that there are a lot of potential mouths to feed and I just can't see him being "featured".  Certainly not to the tune of 100 balls or anything.  The Dolphins can't do half of what they are talking up unless they become the 2nd coming of the Greatest show on turf.  They want to run it..alot. They want that runner to catch balls. They are raving about Parker. They are raving about Landry.  They love their new guy and have plans for him.  Do they never plan to be on defense?  To buy into the Phins makes me think I should be a Tannehill owner.

I like Gase a lot, I like what he did with Bears and Broncos. Not saying he will be a top-5 TE, but I certainly think he can easily be top-10. I invested a lot for Cameron and I have to say I was dead wrong, but at the moment I have positive feeling that it might turn out ok. Is top-10 enough for you, that's your own call, but I like the way Dolphins is evolving. If plays like he last year, he's a lost cause. Now, he at least has a chance to play in a good system that feeds TE.

Truth still is, someone in that offense is gone suffer from targets, because I can't see Dolphins turning their offense around to be the greatest show on turf II. But I do see them improving and I see that Cameron is in a nice place to get more targets. 

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20 minutes ago, Fireinside said:

I like Gase a lot, I like what he did with Bears and Broncos. Not saying he will be a top-5 TE, but I certainly think he can easily be top-10. I invested a lot for Cameron and I have to say I was dead wrong, but at the moment I have positive feeling that it might turn out ok. Is top-10 enough for you, that's your own call, but I like the way Dolphins is evolving. If plays like he last year, he's a lost cause. Now, he at least has a chance to play in a good system that feeds TE.

Truth still is, someone in that offense is gone suffer from targets, because I can't see Dolphins turning their offense around to be the greatest show on turf II. But I do see them improving and I see that Cameron is in a nice place to get more targets. 

I've always been more "down" on Cameron than most and with the injuries, etc, just was always willing to play the devil's advocate for those who like him as a top 10  (or higher at times).

Here's the thing I'll leave you to chew on (doesn't make me right, just playing the devil's advocate): I think last year was served up about as good as it could have been for him to, in theory, have a huge fantasy year and he did almost nothing.  Extend that to his career and he appears to be fitting nicely into the "often injured" and "look, there's a guy that had that one nice stretch..once" rut.  I just think a truly gifted TE is going to find a way to stand out and he's done a lot more blending in. 

 

My opinion is if I owned him, I'm still selling at late 2nd or better.  I will be very surprised if he does enough to make me regret it at that price.

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Problem with TE is that scheme is far more of a factor than for WRs. 

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32 minutes ago, Shutout said:

I think it work mostly in Denver because Peyton Manning was on fire at the time. I don't think Tannehill can fill those shoes in that way plus Demaryius Thomas commanded a unique type of attention I don't think the Dolphins have yet. 

The health issue has always been a big issue to me with this player. I don't see it talked about too much (not more than a usual player but I think it should be). 

There are mixed signals here.

In 2013, the Bronco WR's were Thomas, Welker and Decker. 2014, switch out Decker with Sanders. Julius was pretty productive both seasons. He moves to Jax and his TD's took a huge dive along with much smaller declines across the board in other stats.

Gase goes to the Bears in 2015 and Bennett has a marked decline in production from previous years with the Bears. Miller kind of took some production but still there was a decline. Unless there was an injury issue I am not remembering then this is a mixed bag really.

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1 hour ago, Shutout said:

I've always been more "down" on Cameron than most and with the injuries, etc, just was always willing to play the devil's advocate for those who like him as a top 10  (or higher at times).

Here's the thing I'll leave you to chew on (doesn't make me right, just playing the devil's advocate): I think last year was served up about as good as it could have been for him to, in theory, have a huge fantasy year and he did almost nothing.  Extend that to his career and he appears to be fitting nicely into the "often injured" and "look, there's a guy that had that one nice stretch..once" rut.  I just think a truly gifted TE is going to find a way to stand out and he's done a lot more blending in. 

 

My opinion is if I owned him, I'm still selling at late 2nd or better.  I will be very surprised if he does enough to make me regret it at that price.

I understand that, can't say I can totally disagree. But Reed was always injured too and I remember my friend telling me don't buy, he's always injured. Well, I got Niles Paul and for awhile during pre-season he looked to be #1 TE with Redskins, got injured and here we are year later and everyone is talking how Reed is almost as good as Gronk (who is injured often too). Jordan is 27 and had a very promising year with Browns, injury riddled year with Browns and a bad year in a bad system with Dolphins. I kind of think it would be stupid to sell him now as he can finally get some production and show what he is worth. If he can produce top-10 numbers I'm happy and I have no doubt in my mind he has the skills to do it-injuries happen to everyone.

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46 minutes ago, Fireinside said:

Jordan is 27 and had a very promising year with Browns, injury riddled year with Browns and a bad year in a bad system with Dolphins.

...and a concussion.  

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9 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

...and a concussion.  

And I should be worried why?

Not going to be.

just saying it's a part of the game and some have had more of them than others. Still own Niles Paul though in deeper dynasty Leagues, but not counting on Reed getting injured. It's just something you can't predict.

Edited by Fireinside

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22 minutes ago, Fireinside said:

And I should be worried why?

Not going to be.

just saying it's a part of the game and some have had more of them than others. Still own Niles Paul though in deeper dynasty Leagues, but not counting on Reed getting injured. It's just something you can't predict.

My bad. I remembered him leaving the game in Week 1, but it was a shoulder injury not a concussion.

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Ryan Tannehill said Sunday that he wants Jordan Cameron to "get rolling."

 

In other words, Cameron hasn't been "rolling" to this point. The Palm Beach Post says Cameron has been "struggling with drops and inconsistency," and "it seems he needs to regain some confidence." Cameron failed to top 35 yards in any game after Week 2 last season. He's entirely off the radar as a fantasy pick.
 
 
Aug 21 - 8:07 PM

 

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Jordan Cameron said he's not concerned about all of his dropped passes this summer.

 

Frankly, Cameron hasn't seemed to be too concerned about anything since arriving in Miami, aside from collecting a massive paycheck. "I've just got to catch the ball," Cameron said. "It's football. It's not my first one, it won’t be my last one. Maybe it's a funk, but I don’t think about it as much as I think everyone else does. It's not a concern for me." Cameron's 50-percent catch rate last season was laughably bad. He's off the fantasy radar until further notice.
 
 
Source: Miami Herald 
Aug 26 - 10:08 AM

 

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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6572/jordan-cameron

Ex-Dolphins and Browns TE Jordan Cameron announced his retirement from football.
 
An athletic marvel who played basketball at USC and emerged quickly on the scene in the NFL, Cameron exploded for 80 catches, 917 yards, and seven touchdowns as a third-year pro before a slew of injuries -- including several concussions -- derailed his career, and ultimately ended it. He made the Pro Bowl in 2013 and was a top-four fantasy tight end that year, but otherwise never finished inside the top-20 fantasy tight ends across six seasons. Cameron turns 29 in August.
 
Mar 10 - 12:44 PM

 

 

 

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On 2017-03-10 at 3:24 PM, knowledge dropper said:

Great talent.  It's a rough sport.   I hope all those concussions don't impact the rest of his life.  

Great talent? Well he's better than me.

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