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by_the_sea_wannabe

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1 vick 1 1 1 1 1.00

2 rodgers 2 2 2 2 2.00

3 p4yton 3 4 4 3 3.50

4 brees 4 3 3 5 3.75

5 brady 5 5 5 4 4.75

6 rivers 6 6 6 6 6.00

7 romo 7 7 8 7 7.25

8 ryan 8 9 7 8 8.00

9 schaub 11 8 9 10 9.50

9 big ben 9 10 10 9 9.50

11 Freeman 10 12 12 12 11.50

12 eli 12 13 11 11 11.75

13 flacco 13 14 13 14 13.50

14 bradford 14 11 17 16 14.50

15 cutler 16 15 15 13 14.75

16 stafford 19 16 16 17 17.00

17 tim tebow 15 17 18 20 17.50

18 cassel 17 18 19 19 18.25

19 fitzpatrick 20 19 20 15 18.50

20 sanchez 18 20 21 18 19.25

21 kolb 22 23 14 21 20.00

22 mccoy 23 22 24 22 22.75

23 garrard 26 21 23 25 23.75

24 campbell 27 26 22 23 24.50

25 orton 21 28 26 24 24.75

26 hasselbeck 28 24 28 26 26.50

27 palmer 24 30 25 30 27.25

28 mcnabb 25 29 32 29 28.75

29 christian ponder31 33 30 33 31.75

30 chad henne 29 25 28 27.33

31 cam newton 30 27 27 28.00

32 alex smith 33 29 27 29.67

33 andy dalton 32 31 31 31.33

34 shaun hill 34 31 32.50

35 jake locker 32 32.00

35 blaine gabbert 32 32.00

37 vince young 34 34.00

38 ricky stanzi 35 35.00

38 colin kaepernick 35 35.00

40 jon kitna 36 36.00

1 chris johnson 3 1 1 3 2.00

1 adrian peterson 1 2 3 2 2.00

1 arian foster 2 3 2 1 2.00

4 ray rice 4 4 5 4 4.25

5 jamaal charles 5 5 4 5 4.75

6 lesean mccoy 6 6 6 6 6.00

7 mjd 7 7 7 7 7.00

8 rasharrd menden 10 8 8 9 8.75

9 darren mcfadden 8 9 9 11 9.25

10 steven jackson 9 10 10 10 9.75

11 frank gore 11 11 11 8 10.25

12 michael turner 14 12 12 12 12.50

13 matt forte 12 14 13 14 13.25

13 peyton hillis 13 13 14 13 13.25

15 ryan mathews 15 15 16 15 15.25

16 mark ingram 17 16 15 16 16.00

17 knowshown more 16 19 17 17 17.25

18 ahmad bradshw 19 18 18 18 18.25

19 jonathan stewa 20 17 21 20 19.50

20 jahvid best 18 23 19 21 20.25

21 laegarrette blo 21 20 22 19 20.50

22 deangelo willia 24 21 20 22 21.75

23 daniel thomas 22 22 25 23 23.00

24 shonn greene 23 25 26 25 24.75

24 felix jones 25 24 24 26 24.75

26 marshawn lynch 27 26 23 27 25.75

27 cedric benson 28 27 28 24 26.75

28 joseph addai 26 28 27 28 27.25

29 ryan williams 30 30 29 31 30.00

30 ryan grant 31 29 32 30 30.50

31 fred jackson 29 31 30 33 30.75

32 mike leshoure 34 33 31 35 33.25

33 cj spiller 36 35 34 34 34.75

34 james starks 32 37 36 36 35.25

35 beanie wells 33 34 37 39 35.75

36 ryan torrain 42 44 35 29 37.50

37 shane verrern 35 47 33 38 38.25

38 ladainian tomli 41 39 40 42 40.50

39 roy helu 39 40 38 47 41.00

40 michael bush 40 38 43 44 41.25

41 ben green-ellis 52 32 51 32 41.75

42 mike tolbert 49 36 44 41 42.50

42 brandon jacobs 43 45 39 43 42.50

44 pirre thomas 47 41 45 40 43.25

45 reggie bush 45 43 41 45 43.50

46 monterrio Harde 50 50 42 37 44.75

47 ronnie brown 48 46 47 46 46.75

48 donald brown 44 42 54 48 47.00

49 bernard scott 46 48 49 52 48.75

50 danny woodhead 38 53 57 54 50.50

51 delone carter 56 51 48 49 51.00

52 demarco murray 53 55 50 50 52.00

53 thomas jones 54 49 53 53 52.25

54 tashard choice 37 57 55 62 52.75

55 darren sproles 60 52 46 55 53.25

56 jacquizz rogers 55 61 52 51 54.75

57 mike goodson 61 54 61 56 58.00

58 rashad jennings 59 62 58 58 59.25

59 willis mcgahee 57 63 59 59 59.50

60 marion barber 58 60 56 65 59.75

61 tim hightower 65 59 60 61 61.25

62 kendall hunter 63 58 62 63 61.50

63 toby gerhart 64 66 63 66 64.75

64 jason snelling 51 56 57 54.67

65 ben tate 64 65 67 65.33

66 brian powell 65 64 64.50

67 joe mcknight 60 60.00

68 taiwan jones 62 62.00

69 marcell reece 64 64.00

70 issac redman 66 66.00

70 cadillac williams 66 66.00

72 ricky williams 67 67.00

73 justin forsett 68 68.00

1 andre johnson 1 1 1 1 1.00

2 roddy white 2 3 3 2 2.50

2 calvin johnson 3 2 2 3 2.50

4 larry fitzgeral 4 4 5 4 4.25

5 hakeem nicks 5 5 4 5 4.75

6 greg jennings 6 6 6 7 6.25

7 reggie wayne 7 7 7 6 6.75

8 vincent jackson 10 10 9 11 10.00

8 wes welker 9 11 11 9 10.00

10 miles austin 12 13 8 8 10.25

11 desean jackson 11 9 13 12 11.25

12 mike wallace 8 12 12 14 11.50

13 dwayne bowe 13 14 10 10 11.75

14 brandon marshal 14 8 14 13 12.25

15 mike williams t 15 15 17 15 15.50

16 marques colston 14 17 15 17 15.75

17 jeremy maclin 16 16 16 18 16.50

18 dez bryant 19 19 18 16 18.00

19 santonio holmes 18 21 22 19 20.00

20 steve johnson 21 20 21 21 20.75

21 anquan boldin 20 18 27 20 21.25

22 brandon lloyd 22 22 20 23 21.75

23 percy harvin 24 23 23 27 24.25

24 austin collie 23 24 28 24 24.75

25 sidney rice 25 27 26 22 25.00

26 kenny britt 26 26 24 26 25.50

26 micahel crabtre 27 25 25 25 25.50

28 pierre garcon 28 28 19 28 25.75

29 steve smith car 29 29 29 29 29.00

30 chad ochocinco 30 32 34 32 32.00

31 johnny knox 35 30 30 35 32.50

31 mike thomas 36 33 31 30 32.50

33 AJ Green 31 34 35 32 33.00

33 Julio Jones 33 35 33 31 33.00

35 mario manningha 32 37 32 33 33.50

36 mike williams s 34 36 36 36 35.50

36 deion branch 40 31 37 34 35.50

38 jacoby ford 38 39 40 37 38.50

39 braylon edwards 39 41 39 38 39.25

40 santana moss 42 40 38 39 39.75

41 davonne bess 37 46 41 40 41.00

42 jorday nelson 45 38 43 41 41.75

43 steve smith nyg 44 43 45 43 43.75

43 hines ward 49 42 42 42 43.75

45 emmanual sanders 52 45 46 44 46.75

46 terrell owens 46 54 44 52 49.00

47 lee evens 54 48 52 45 49.75

48 greg little 48 55 49 48 50.00

49 robert meachem 51 50 47 54 50.50

49 malcome flloyd 50 49 56 47 50.50

51 derrick mason 47 53 53 51 51.00

52 lance moore 43 56 50 57 51.50

53 jon baldwin 41 61 51 56 52.25

54 Anthony Armstro 53 52 62 46 53.25

55 aurelleus benn 55 57 59 49 55.00

56 nate burleson 59 51 57 60 56.75

56 randy moss 56 60 58 53 56.75

58 james jones 60 44 66 58 57.00

58 donald driver 66 47 65 50 57.00

60 danny amendola 61 64 48 59 58.00

61 jerome simpson 58 68 54 62 60.50

62 earl bennett 62 62 64 63 62.75

62 mike sims-walke 72 63 55 61 62.75

64 jason hill 57 59 71 69 64.00

64 donnie avery 63 66 61 66 64.00

66 mark clayton 69 73 68 55 66.25

67 steve breaston 67 58 76 67 67.00

68 jacoby jones 64 69 75 68 69.00

69 kevin walter 68 67 78 64 69.25

69 jordan shipley 77 65 60 75 69.25

71 danario alexand 73 79 67 65 71.00

72 eddie royal 71 74 69 73 71.75

73 jericho cotcher 65 70 86 74 73.75

74 nate washington 70 89 63 82 76.00

75 josh morgan 79 82 72 78 77.75

77 eric decker 75 87 80 71 78.25

78 brandon lafell 74 71 84 88 79.25

79 titus young 76 78 87 80 80.25

80 roscoe parrish 89 75 81 77 80.50

81 brandon tate 90 83 74 79 81.50

82 jabar gaffney 93 72 97 70 83.00

83 roy williams 91 85 91 81 87.00

84 ben obomanu 83 86 97 85 87.75

85 blair white 92 84 94 83 88.25

86 muhamad massaqu 78 94 76 82.67

87 david gettis 87 92 72 83.67

88 darius heyward 98 73 84.00

88 golden tate 82 88 82 84.00

90 plaxico burress 87 77 89 84.33

91 vincent brown 80 91 90 87.00

92 devin hester 77 79 78.00

93 brian robiske 90 70 80.00

94 jason avant 76 85 80.50

95 david nelson 86 87 86.50

96 devery henderso 85 97 91.00

97 damian williams 88 95 91.50

98 louis murphey 83 83.00

99 seyi ajirotutu 84 84.00

99 randall cobb 84 84.00

101 marcus easley 86 86.00

102 leonard hankerson 88 88.00

103 greg salas 89 89.00

104 legedu naanee 92 92.00

105 tj houshmandzadeh 93 93.00

105 josh cribbs 93 93.00

107 torrey smith 94 94.00

108 edmond gates 95 95.00

109 denarious moore 96 96.00

109 chaz schillins 96 96.00

1 Antonio Gates 2 1 2 1 1.50

2 Jason Witten 1 2 1 3 1.75

3 Jermichael Finl 3 3 3 4 3.25

4 Dallas Clark 4 4 5 2 3.75

5 Vernon Davis 5 5 4 5 4.75

6 Jimmy Graham 6 6 8 7 6.75

7 Owen Daniels 7 7 9 8 7.75

8 Brandon Pettigr 12 8 6 9 8.75

9 Zach J. Miller 9 10 11 6 9.00

10 Chris Cooley 10 11 7 10 9.50

11 Kellen Winslow 8 9 10 12 9.75

12 Tony Gonzalez 11 13 13 14 12.75

13 Rob Gronkowski 13 15 14 11 13.25

14 Dustin Keller 16 16 12 13 14.25

15 Marcedes Lewis 15 12 16 15 14.50

16 Jermaine Gresh 14 14 17 16 15.25

17 Aaron Hernandez 17 19 15 17 17.00

18 Jared Cook 19 17 18 19 18.25

19 Brent Celek 18 18 19 23 19.50

20 Tony Moeaki 20 22 20 21 20.75

21 Heath Miller 21 20 23 22 21.50

21 Ben Watson 23 23 22 18 21.50

23 Greg Olsen 22 21 21 23 21.75

24 Todd Heap 24 24 24 20 23.00

25 John Carlson 26 25 25 24 25.00

26 Visanthe Shianc 25 28 27 26 26.50

27 Kevin Boss 31 27 26 25 27.25

28 Jacob Tamme 27 29 28 31 28.75

29 Lance Kendricks 30 30 29 27 29.00

30 Anthony Fasano 29 31 30 29 29.75

31 Jeremy Shockey 28 26 28 27.33

32 kyle rudolph 31 30 30.5

33 fred davis 32 32

33 Michael Hoomanawanui 32 32

35 robert housler 35 35

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.Bump Jimmy Graham

Between QB issues and broke returning guys, how high can Brees's TE go?

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.Bump Jimmy Graham

Someone overrated on FBG?STOP THE PRESSES!As a huge Saints and Jimmy Graham fan, lets be objective here. He is a TE with great hands and good route running ability, good size and speed, and can block when need be. He has gigantic upside being in the offense he is, however, he is young and the rumors I hear are he is not that great with the playbook. Give him time to pick that up, and read what defenses will do, so he can pick up the hot routes from Brees and whats expected of him, before we label him a star.But he is on the cusp of what great TEs can do. :thumbup: PS > For my own humor, according to other threads in this mock draft forum, Grahams production can only decrease since the defense got better and they drafted a running back. :lmao:Great work ByTheSeaWannabe

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug: for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug: for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....
Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

LOL. Hey Ref how many of these you won before?

Ill take my 5 titles. Thanks.

THe key to winning these is to mimizie risk and not reach for players. A top5 season for Graham IMO isnt coming this season at the TE position.

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

LOL. Hey Ref how many of these you won before?

Ill take my 5 titles. Thanks.

THe key to winning these is to mimizie risk and not reach for players. A top5 season for Graham IMO isnt coming this season at the TE position.

lol...think you took my post out of context....was really referring more about redrafts and head to heads and what not come this fall when discussing Graham.....not these survivor style type leagues and stuff....to me when we talk about overrated and stuff it is more with an eye to the future and how drafts will shake down this August/September....

in no way was I questioning you in these things....I have given you your props around here before.... :bow:

(think this is only my second year doing these anyway)...

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

LOL. Hey Ref how many of these you won before?

Ill take my 5 titles. Thanks.

THe key to winning these is to mimizie risk and not reach for players. A top5 season for Graham IMO isnt coming this season at the TE position.

The bolded couldnt be said any better. Everyone tries for the guy think will break out, but if you reach for him, and he dont work out...your left getting bounced quick, or needing to find ww fodder in a redraft.

Taking people with high upside, consitant track record, and a very little injury history, are the keys to contending. If you take risk, it could have great rewards, but just the same, if you take risk....you can regret it. And the regret seems to happen much more often when you take risks. But that comes with experience....after playing fantasy and doing survivors for many years, this is what i learned, you can disagree if you like as some I'm sure will....

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My overrated list

1 vick 1 1 1 1 1.00

To much downside for me here. You have to spend an early pick for a guy that imo is very likely to get hurt and has serious character flaws. Give me the next five guys and then Vick enters the picture for me. I would feel compelled to have a solid backup behind Vick, which is not something I want to have invest when taking a qb early.

17 tim tebow 15 17 18 20 17.50

Not a believer. I don't think this guy will ever amount to anything in the NFL/fantasy.

16 mark ingram 17 16 15 16 16.00

I don't think he is as good as some think he is. Won't get catches with Bush around and I think he will be. Will take at least one year to get enough touches on first and second down with Thomas around to justify this ranking.

Nothing at wr to get excited about :shrug:

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

LOL. Hey Ref how many of these you won before?

Ill take my 5 titles. Thanks.

THe key to winning these is to mimizie risk and not reach for players. A top5 season for Graham IMO isnt coming this season at the TE position.

The bolded couldnt be said any better. Everyone tries for the guy think will break out, but if you reach for him, and he dont work out...your left getting bounced quick, or needing to find ww fodder in a redraft.

Taking people with high upside, consitant track record, and a very little injury history, are the keys to contending. If you take risk, it could have great rewards, but just the same, if you take risk....you can regret it. And the regret seems to happen much more often when you take risks. But that comes with experience....after playing fantasy and doing survivors for many years, this is what i learned, you can disagree if you like as some I'm sure will....

agree with much of what you said except for the bolded part....which I don't think go together....normally if someone has shown a solid consistent track record there won't be a ton of upside.....you know what you are getting....their upside is probably maxed out or at least close to it....so they will be drafted/rated accordingly.....taking people with "upside" in and of itself generally lends itself to risk....

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My overrated list1 vick 1 1 1 1 1.00To much downside for me here. You have to spend an early pick for a guy that imo is very likely to get hurt and has serious character flaws. Give me the next five guys and then Vick enters the picture for me. I would feel compelled to have a solid backup behind Vick, which is not something I want to have invest when taking a qb early.17 tim tebow 15 17 18 20 17.50Not a believer. I don't think this guy will ever amount to anything in the NFL/fantasy.16 mark ingram 17 16 15 16 16.00I don't think he is as good as some think he is. Won't get catches with Bush around and I think he will be. Will take at least one year to get enough touches on first and second down with Thomas around to justify this ranking. Nothing at wr to get excited about :shrug:

:goodposting:

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Jimmy Graham is offically overrated.

Bump Jimmy Graham

hmmmm....who on the list that is listed below him would you rather have....seems about right to me..... :shrug:

for him to be overrated you would have to provide more than a few names....

Winslow, Pettigrew, OD to name a few.

Grahams sample size is real small and it feels like a trap to me.

sounds good....if you like playing for second....

I think Graham has more of a chance to surplant one of the guys listed above him than any of those guys or any of the other guys on the list.....sure the sample size for Graham is small.....but it doesn't do us a ton of good to come in after he puts up a top 5 season....

LOL. Hey Ref how many of these you won before?

Ill take my 5 titles. Thanks.

THe key to winning these is to mimizie risk and not reach for players. A top5 season for Graham IMO isnt coming this season at the TE position.

The bolded couldnt be said any better. Everyone tries for the guy think will break out, but if you reach for him, and he dont work out...your left getting bounced quick, or needing to find ww fodder in a redraft.

Taking people with high upside, consitant track record, and a very little injury history, are the keys to contending. If you take risk, it could have great rewards, but just the same, if you take risk....you can regret it. And the regret seems to happen much more often when you take risks. But that comes with experience....after playing fantasy and doing survivors for many years, this is what i learned, you can disagree if you like as some I'm sure will....

agree with much of what you said except for the bolded part....which I don't think go together....normally if someone has shown a solid consistent track record there won't be a ton of upside.....you know what you are getting....their upside is probably maxed out or at least close to it....so they will be drafted/rated accordingly.....taking people with "upside" in and of itself generally lends itself to risk....
As much as I look at past season stats to break down a player...I feel even veteran and consistant players have upside.

Example, ARod is proven yet still has upside, Chris johnson, had a 2000 yard season, but still has upside compared to others. I dont always put upside with rookies or newbys. Another person with upside this year in my opinion, is Eddie Royal. Yes he did it before and cooled off. But with a new coach, and maybe a new QB, I look at him being a key factor in that offense with high upside. Just examples, you dont have to agree, but thats just me. Upside can be looked at to vet players as well with new and different situations. IMHO

Graham has high upside, with little risk. I am a huge fan, my critique on him above was objective. But i would still take Pettigrew, Daniels, Winslow, and even Zach Miller (Oak) over Graham. Maybe Celek or Keller, but I think my fandom would take over and I would take Graham without really breaking it down over those guys.

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when I think of upside I think of getting even more than what I think I will....not sure how much higher the ceiling is on guys like ARod and CJ....they are probably both going at 1-2 at their positions so you are hoping to get what you have to "pay" to get them....they may be able to get you more points on a given week, but they really can't give you 1st round value at a 3rd round price.....ARod may throw 38 TD's with an upside of 45....well you really already paid for that upside where you had to draft him in the first place so it's already kind of included.....

a guy like Royal is different....after his rookie year I think he was going in the top 20 the following year.....then he bombs (for whatever reason, injury/coach/whatever)....and his stock falls and he becomes an afterthought and for some even undraftable....so yeah drafting him late and getting anything at this point is upside because he hasn't shown a consistent track record......which was my point.....consistent track record and upside don't really go together.....

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when I think of upside I think of getting even more than what I think I will....not sure how much higher the ceiling is on guys like ARod and CJ....they are probably both going at 1-2 at their positions so you are hoping to get what you have to "pay" to get them....they may be able to get you more points on a given week, but they really can't give you 1st round value at a 3rd round price.....ARod may throw 38 TD's with an upside of 45....well you really already paid for that upside where you had to draft him in the first place so it's already kind of included.....a guy like Royal is different....after his rookie year I think he was going in the top 20 the following year.....then he bombs (for whatever reason, injury/coach/whatever)....and his stock falls and he becomes an afterthought and for some even undraftable....so yeah drafting him late and getting anything at this point is upside because he hasn't shown a consistent track record......which was my point.....consistent track record and upside don't really go together.....

I understand your point and what your saying, but my point is more or less saying that ARod has the upside to produce even better numbers then what I project him at with 30 or upside from the year before. Now its not the best argument since everyone has him as the #1 QB basicly. I cant really project 50, but if a guy is still capable, that can be considered upside. Consistant can have upside. Just an example of my value of upside with vets. Rivers has been consistant and so has Manning, Manning has been taken higher then Rivers in almost every draft I have seen. The consistancy says Manning, but the upside says Rivers, so honestly I have Rivers ranked higher then manning based off pure talent, track record, and upside to even do better. You know what your floor should be with them, and both are equal...I'm not certain rivers will be better then Manning, i just much rather have Rivers cuz his upside is better in dynasty and redraft, and survivor....dont mean his stats will be, just his upside, but upside can be disputed til the day is long. Again, normally, I look at upside with younger players, but there is an exception to all rules, and this is one.... I believe.

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for the most part I think these are spot on rankings...as far as over/under rated these are a few that jumped out IMO but even then it is probably just a very slight variance:

OVER: Romo-Ryan-Flacco-Cassel

UNDER: Bradford-Stafford-Tebow

OVER: McFadden-Gore-Ingram-Felix Jones

UNDER: Steven Jackson-Blount-Dwilly-Fred Jackson

OVER: Austin-Bowe-Smith(NYG)

UNDER: Dez Bryant-Amendola-Hankerson

OVER: ?

UNDER: Watson-Cook

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Been doing these for several years now, and it seems that success is determined by several factors:

1) No (or at least minimal) major injuries. Depth can only cover for so much. Most of the time, if 1 of your top 2-3 guys goes down with a season ending injury, so does your season. Can be mitigated by getting the backup (or helps others if the have that lotto ticket) but the studs are studs for a reason. Brady a couple years ago, and even Gore this past year (who had a great ppg to the point he went out) are examples.

2) Hit a mid-late round home run. Guys drafted in 1-5 stabilize a team, but it's generally the 6-12 slots (or maybe in some cases the late flier) that can get you over the top. Vick, Foster, McFadden, Hillis (who kept me in PDSL4 last yr to the end with no TE and only Palmer at QB), Lloyd, Steve Johnson were all examples from last year. If you have a couple of these, you are in good shape.

3) (in some ways 2.5) Have less holes than the other teams. With 16 team leagues, it's nearly impossible to get top notch folks at every single position. So whichever 1 or 2 you are sloughing, you need the depth or home runs to cover for it. The folks who sloughed RB and got McFadden/Foster, or sloughed TE and got Pettigrew/Lewis, or sloughed WR and got Tampa Mike/Stevie filled those holes.

4) A little luck. If the top 2 happen, you might be fine, but all it takes is a bad first week and you can be gone. Stable, safe lineups will generally get you past the bye weeks, but you need to hit on some upside to win the whole thing.

There is no set formula for making these work or everyone would be using it; even those that have many titles to their name have done them by executing different strategies along the way, depending on how the draft unfolded. Just one drafter's opinion and of course ymmv.

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for the most part I think these are spot on rankings...as far as over/under rated these are a few that jumped out IMO but even then it is probably just a very slight variance:OVER: Romo-Ryan-Flacco-CasselUNDER: Bradford-Stafford-TebowOVER: McFadden-Gore-Ingram-Felix JonesUNDER: Steven Jackson-Blount-Dwilly-Fred JacksonOVER: Austin-Bowe-Smith(NYG)UNDER: Dez Bryant-Amendola-HankersonOVER: ?UNDER: Watson-Cook

So you think Ryan is not the 8th best QB, but worse? I dont know how you can gain a WR with a top 6 pick, and lose ground, I just dont see him taking a step back when he is obviously growing. Turner is not getting younger you know!

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Quick looks at over/under:

Over: QB - Freeman

RB - Turner, Hillis

WR - Jennings, Ocho, Knox

TE - TonyG

Under: QB - Bradford

RB - DWill, Addai

WR - Lloyd, AJGreen, Ford

TE - ZMiller

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for the most part I think these are spot on rankings...as far as over/under rated these are a few that jumped out IMO but even then it is probably just a very slight variance:OVER: Romo-Ryan-Flacco-CasselUNDER: Bradford-Stafford-TebowOVER: McFadden-Gore-Ingram-Felix JonesUNDER: Steven Jackson-Blount-Dwilly-Fred JacksonOVER: Austin-Bowe-Smith(NYG)UNDER: Dez Bryant-Amendola-HankersonOVER: ?UNDER: Watson-Cook

So you think Ryan is not the 8th best QB, but worse? I dont know how you can gain a WR with a top 6 pick, and lose ground, I just dont see him taking a step back when he is obviously growing. Turner is not getting younger you know!
win me a real NFL game....I'll take Ryan...twice on Sundays...think the dude has some of the best moxy at QB in the NFL....would love to see him QB'ing my Chiefs.....fantasy wise...differnt story for me...especially in head to head redrafts...survivor ok as part of a package...rarely will he throw up those monster games you might need on occasion...Turner and the rest seem too solid to get in games where they need the QB to outgun the other guy....in these leagues, sometimes you may need your QB1 to be able to carry you through some stuff....Ryan may not always do that when Turner goes for 160 and 2 and they kick a couple FG's....guess when I look at Ryan I sometimes see the dreaded game manager type thing...and again don't get me wrong...if somebody said pick a QB to lead your real team to a title for the next 10 years, he might be at the top of my list....seriously he might....but at the top of my fantasy list, maybe not so much...I think in these, Ryan is a great part of a package, cause I think there will be games when he needs the "other guy" to step up.....so "a no brainer don't need a backup til late?"...no, not really...is he solid....yes...I think some of the guys behind him could be more explosive fantasy wise on a consistent basis because their teams rely more on them right now.....that's all...although that could change as well...knowing I would maybe have to pair up my QB...as my QB1 in these I would maybe rather have Bradford, Stafford, Schaub, or Roth as QB1 and then follow up with a safe guy.....and honestly if going for the balls out win....Tebow would creep in that conversation as well....

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Underrated

25 orton 21 28 26 24 24.75

I'll be surprised if Orton doesn't finish 6-11 spots higher than this at least.

44 pirre thomas 47 41 45 40 43.25

Goes along with Mark Ingram being to high I guess.

49 bernard scott 46 48 49 52 48.75

I feel he is talented enough and I don't like the grumblings from Benson. Definitely worth a shot down here.

64 jason snelling 51 56 57 54.67

Would be higher had he been drafted in ssl3 but from this spot should go higher.

12 mike wallace 8 12 12 14 11.50

4-5 spots higher for me closer to that 8 than the 12-14. He is taking over for Ward and I suspect more passing out of the Stillers this year.

17 jeremy maclin 16 16 16 18 16.50

I would rather have him than Jackson

40 santana moss 42 40 38 39 39.75

41 davonne bess 37 46 41 40 41.00

60 danny amendola 61 64 48 59 58.00

I think these three non sexy picks are criminally underrated

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for the most part I think these are spot on rankings...as far as over/under rated these are a few that jumped out IMO but even then it is probably just a very slight variance:OVER: Romo-Ryan-Flacco-CasselUNDER: Bradford-Stafford-TebowOVER: McFadden-Gore-Ingram-Felix JonesUNDER: Steven Jackson-Blount-Dwilly-Fred JacksonOVER: Austin-Bowe-Smith(NYG)UNDER: Dez Bryant-Amendola-HankersonOVER: ?UNDER: Watson-Cook

So you think Ryan is not the 8th best QB, but worse? I dont know how you can gain a WR with a top 6 pick, and lose ground, I just dont see him taking a step back when he is obviously growing. Turner is not getting younger you know!
win me a real NFL game....I'll take Ryan...twice on Sundays...think the dude has some of the best moxy at QB in the NFL....would love to see him QB'ing my Chiefs.....fantasy wise...differnt story for me...especially in head to head redrafts...survivor ok as part of a package...rarely will he throw up those monster games you might need on occasion...Turner and the rest seem too solid to get in games where they need the QB to outgun the other guy....in these leagues, sometimes you may need your QB1 to be able to carry you through some stuff....Ryan may not always do that when Turner goes for 160 and 2 and they kick a couple FG's....guess when I look at Ryan I sometimes see the dreaded game manager type thing...and again don't get me wrong...if somebody said pick a QB to lead your real team to a title for the next 10 years, he might be at the top of my list....seriously he might....but at the top of my fantasy list, maybe not so much...I think in these, Ryan is a great part of a package, cause I think there will be games when he needs the "other guy" to step up.....so "a no brainer don't need a backup til late?"...no, not really...is he solid....yes...I think some of the guys behind him could be more explosive fantasy wise on a consistent basis because their teams rely more on them right now.....that's all...although that could change as well...knowing I would maybe have to pair up my QB...as my QB1 in these I would maybe rather have Bradford, Stafford, Schaub, or Roth as QB1 and then follow up with a safe guy.....and honestly if going for the balls out win....Tebow would creep in that conversation as well....
Ok lets look at it....Last year its pretty odd, ARod completed less passes yet gained more yards. Same with Eli and Brady. Rivers completed the exact same amount of completions and got 1000 more yards. It goes to show a lot of the QBs ability and performance is based of the people around him and the offense they are in. And Ryan was already in the top 6 in attempts and now just got a new toy in Jones. I mean my basic argument is Ryan has White and Gonzo, why would they go out of the way to trade up to get another WR when Douglas and Jenkins are still on the roster. Now I'm not saying they are stars, but they are roster worthy, and made the need at WR not so bad. They had many needs on defense, and yet decided on the WR. His ability and talent make him a worthy reason to think he can help Ryan pretty quick. But my new argument, is not really a different reason but a different angle. Gaining an explosive talent who can open up the field for Roddy even more, make great plays himself, and run block, means Ryan can be more leathal with the way he spreads it around, allowing for many more big plays from White, Jones, and even Gonzo underneath and up the middle. For a guy with this upside, already shown he can be consistant enough, and on a team that has talent all around him...I beleieve he can get 4000 yards and 30 TDs, thats only 300 yards and 2 tds more then last year, and his track record says he can only grow, as he did that much better in '10 from '09. Its not bad value to take him later and grab the value and points you need out of a runner or receiver.As far as a QB carrying you, that can be true, but if you didnt take a QB early...your not counting on your QB much...my horse in SSL is Rice, I go, as he goes! Ryan is more then consistant enough to be my QB with Rice and Witten getting the majority of points, at least by my strategy.Plus if I didnt take Ryan where I took him, I woulda been stuck with Freeman or someone like that, and I like Ryan WAY more!

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Ok lets look at it....Last year its pretty odd, ARod completed less passes yet gained more yards. Same with Eli and Brady. Rivers completed the exact same amount of completions and got 1000 more yards. It goes to show a lot of the QBs ability and performance is based of the people around him and the offense they are in. And Ryan was already in the top 6 in attempts and now just got a new toy in Jones. I mean my basic argument is Ryan has White and Gonzo, why would they go out of the way to trade up to get another WR when Douglas and Jenkins are still on the roster. Now I'm not saying they are stars, but they are roster worthy, and made the need at WR not so bad. They had many needs on defense, and yet decided on the WR. His ability and talent make him a worthy reason to think he can help Ryan pretty quick. But my new argument, is not really a different reason but a different angle. Gaining an explosive talent who can open up the field for Roddy even more, make great plays himself, and run block, means Ryan can be more leathal with the way he spreads it around, allowing for many more big plays from White, Jones, and even Gonzo underneath and up the middle. For a guy with this upside, already shown he can be consistant enough, and on a team that has talent all around him...I beleieve he can get 4000 yards and 30 TDs, thats only 300 yards and 2 tds more then last year, and his track record says he can only grow, as he did that much better in '10 from '09. Its not bad value to take him later and grab the value and points you need out of a runner or receiver.As far as a QB carrying you, that can be true, but if you didnt take a QB early...your not counting on your QB much...my horse in SSL is Rice, I go, as he goes! Ryan is more then consistant enough to be my QB with Rice and Witten getting the majority of points, at least by my strategy.Plus if I didnt take Ryan where I took him, I woulda been stuck with Freeman or someone like that, and I like Ryan WAY more!

:thumbup:You made a nice, rational point without hurling schoolyard insults at the opposing viewpoint. This reads so much better than the stuff we were doing last week.

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64 jason snelling 51 56 57 54.67

You make a pretty good case for Snelling being up around the 56 spot.

Nice work....labor of Love.....thank you.

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64 jason snelling 51 56 57 54.67

You make a pretty good case for Snelling being up around the 56 spot.

Nice work....labor of Love.....thank you.

EXCEPT that Snelling is not signed with ATL...and if he goes elsewhere it might not be as good

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