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Redskins QB John Beck (1 Viewer)

'eakfootball said:
On the downside he is already 30 years old.
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Steve Young was 30 years old by the time he got the starting gig in San Fran. Obviously their situations and talent levels aren't even on the same planet, but I'm just trying to say that Beck being 30 doesn't mean that he can't go on to have a successful NFL career. Rich Gannon was another guy that got a handful of starts with Minnesota and Kansas City with limited success before finding a home in Oakland at age 31-32 (?).I was one of those that laughed at the fact that the Redskins were considering entering the season with Beck as their starting QB, but this piece raises a few interesting points. Beck was considered a very good prospect coming out of BYU and was a second round pick. A few poor starts his rookie season on a historically bad team, caused him to never really see another legit chance at playing time. He does possess the skills to be at least an adequate NFL QB - but does he have the confidence and leadership skills? (offseason reports say that he does).Shanahan is a better than average NFL coach, especially on the offensive side of the ball, and is showing faith in Beck. And lets face it, coaching under Daniel Snyder means another bad season could be the end of his time in Washington, so Shanahan is putting his career in Beck's hands.I'm very curious to see how this plays out.
 
And you've got the point about this piece - Beck is potentially a compelling storyline in the 2011 NFL season. He might not make statistical headlines. I'm not making a huge bet he will, but he's one of those players people tend to write off and when there's reason to reconsider, they rely on the wrong past information.

Mike Williams of Seattle is a good example of that last year.

I think Moonlight mentioned this about me in another thread yesterday and he nailed it: I tend to look for underdogs and have a soft spot for them. I had a good laugh when I read it because it is true. However, I also feel that is part of my role as a writer for this site - look for players who might be worth a more serious examination that most people will write off. They are the potential exceptions to the rule, which means they are not high percentage plays.

Like DocOc, I'm very curious to see how it plays out.

 
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There are a lot of guys around that have he talent to p;ay in the league that never get the chance and there are a lot of guys that have all world talent and either can't get it or won't get it.

Just talking QB, guys like Warner, Gannon, and Bulger that did really well many years into their career. And most everybody can name the exceedingly high draft pick guys that failed, like Jamarcus, Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and many many more.

A very line line between legitimate talent AND getting the right opportunity.

 
There are much worse guys who could be taking up a spot at the end of your bench - guys with far less opportunity too.

If I can waiver a guy like this and let him bake for a season or two, and he turns into a Warner, Gannon, Bulger, or Young... I'll be *very* happy.

 
'hostile said:
There are much worse guys who could be taking up a spot at the end of your bench - guys with far less opportunity too.If I can waiver a guy like this and let him bake for a season or two, and he turns into a Warner, Gannon, Bulger, or Young... I'll be *very* happy.
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That's my plan. Let him sit behind Josh Freeman and Cutler and see what happens.
 
'Raider Nation said:
Amazing in-depth study as usual, Matt. Your wife must hate you. ;)
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LOL - I've supplied a poor excuse for a domicile for her to renovate room by room. However, I may have to start breaking things at the rate she's accomplishing projects or she might start hating me for real ;)
 
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score.

If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.

 
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score. If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
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Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.You've been pretty high on Beck and I hope you're right. But, just from what I've seen in preseason and his limited time last week, I don't have high hopes. My highest hope is simply that he can help reduce turnovers.
 
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He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.

 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
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It wasn't dropped. Austin caught it. It was probably his best pass of the day, but he badly missed a few wide open guys that could have moved that drive along much faster. Not a huge deal, though. They looked like timing/depth issues that hopefully he can work on in practice this week and be more accurate Sunday.
 
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
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It wasn't dropped. Austin caught it. It was probably his best pass of the day, but he badly missed a few wide open guys that could have moved that drive along much faster. Not a huge deal, though. They looked like timing/depth issues that hopefully he can work on in practice this week and be more accurate Sunday.
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I think we're talking about two separate passes. One potential TD pass was dropped, it may have been similar to the one you're talking about. The stream I was watching got choppy during the play you're talking about, so I can't say for certain that it was the same type of play.
 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
Click to expand...
It wasn't dropped. Austin caught it. It was probably his best pass of the day, but he badly missed a few wide open guys that could have moved that drive along much faster. Not a huge deal, though. They looked like timing/depth issues that hopefully he can work on in practice this week and be more accurate Sunday.
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I think we're talking about two separate passes. One potential TD pass was dropped, it may have been similar to the one you're talking about. The stream I was watching got choppy during the play you're talking about, so I can't say for certain that it was the same type of play.
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Austin only had one target and he caught it, so you must be thinking of someone else. I do remember there being a few drops once Beck came in. He was really off on some throws, but his teammates didn't help him when he was accurate.
 
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
Click to expand...
It wasn't dropped. Austin caught it. It was probably his best pass of the day, but he badly missed a few wide open guys that could have moved that drive along much faster. Not a huge deal, though. They looked like timing/depth issues that hopefully he can work on in practice this week and be more accurate Sunday.
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I think we're talking about two separate passes. One potential TD pass was dropped, it may have been similar to the one you're talking about. The stream I was watching got choppy during the play you're talking about, so I can't say for certain that it was the same type of play.
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Austin only had one target and he caught it, so you must be thinking of someone else. I do remember there being a few drops once Beck came in. He was really off on some throws, but his teammates didn't help him when he was accurate.
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he's talkin bout the pass stallworth dropped, not the catch by austin.
 
'dehaven123 said:
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
'dgreen said:
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
Click to expand...
It wasn't dropped. Austin caught it. It was probably his best pass of the day, but he badly missed a few wide open guys that could have moved that drive along much faster. Not a huge deal, though. They looked like timing/depth issues that hopefully he can work on in practice this week and be more accurate Sunday.
Click to expand...
I think we're talking about two separate passes. One potential TD pass was dropped, it may have been similar to the one you're talking about. The stream I was watching got choppy during the play you're talking about, so I can't say for certain that it was the same type of play.
Click to expand...
Austin only had one target and he caught it, so you must be thinking of someone else. I do remember there being a few drops once Beck came in. He was really off on some throws, but his teammates didn't help him when he was accurate.
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he's talkin bout the pass stallworth dropped, not the catch by austin.
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That must be it.
 
For a two QB league, a solid, professional QB in that system can produce nicely. Not be a gamebreaker, but 14-20 points a week most weeks is a very solid #2.

Maybe not as much upside as some of the other waiver wire picks this week (Palmer, maybe even Ponder), but I think a much higher floor. Palmer hasnt played ball all year and is going to a new team. It will be a few weeks to get into rhythm and THEN we can see if he even has an arm enough to get it vertical. If so, could really do well. If not, we have seen the ghost of Palmer past for a few seasons now. Ponder intrigues me, as he could put up solid numbers. But thats a run, run, run team without great weapons at WR. Harvin could help him, but certainly going to be some clunkers.

 
Thanks for posting that Matt - funny thing is I was very high on Beck coming out of BYU and added him to one of my teams - to laughs from the rest of the league - and ultimately had to drop him due to lack of opportunities.

But I added him to another team a few weeks back largely because I had Grossman and wanted the backup, but still hoping he would get the chance to rekindle his career

 
'ConnSKINS26 said:
He had a beautiful pass up the seam to, I believe, Terrence Austin that was dropped inches from the end zone. Gorgeous pass. The type of anticipation throw that a guy who doesn't seem to spin the ball THAT well needs to make to succeed.
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You're talking about the pass to Gaffney. He had a defender right on his hip but should have probably come down with the ball.
 
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'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score. If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
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Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.You've been pretty high on Beck and I hope you're right. But, just from what I've seen in preseason and his limited time last week, I don't have high hopes. My highest hope is simply that he can help reduce turnovers.
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I think you misunderstood what I wrote and I'll clarify. I think a reason (not the reason) Grossman earned the job in the preseason is that if Shanny started Beck and Beck struggled early, the players and fans would have called for Grossman and the pressure would have been too great for Shanny to let Beck grow into the job. However, if Shanny started Grossman - which he did - fans and players could see Grossman do what he usually does: look good and terrible intermittently, get booed, and play himself out of the job. Then players and fans would have to be a little more patient with Beck, who is the better talent but has less experience and might have some growing pains.
 
So, what does everyone think the Beck change does to the receivers in Washington? Moss and Gaffney have been startable, but haven't been huge...while Fred Davis is probably the only other player who has been worth a start on the team. Does he help or hurt those three? Does he add value to other players?

 
'Matt Waldman said:
'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score. If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
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Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.You've been pretty high on Beck and I hope you're right. But, just from what I've seen in preseason and his limited time last week, I don't have high hopes. My highest hope is simply that he can help reduce turnovers.
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I think you misunderstood what I wrote and I'll clarify. I think a reason (not the reason) Grossman earned the job in the preseason is that if Shanny started Beck and Beck struggled early, the players and fans would have called for Grossman and the pressure would have been too great for Shanny to let Beck grow into the job. However, if Shanny started Grossman - which he did - fans and players could see Grossman do what he usually does: look good and terrible intermittently, get booed, and play himself out of the job. Then players and fans would have to be a little more patient with Beck, who is the better talent but has less experience and might have some growing pains.
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I just usually don't buy into the fans/pressure/political reasons for starting a certain player. I realize you aren't saying it's 100% of the decision, but I think it's pretty close to 0%. I just think they started the QB who they thought gave them the best chance to win and now they think someone else gives them the better chance. If Shanahan believed all along that Beck was better, I believe he would have started all along. Maybe I'm being naive because a lot of people seem to think there are many other factors.
 
'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score. If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
Click to expand...
Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.You've been pretty high on Beck and I hope you're right. But, just from what I've seen in preseason and his limited time last week, I don't have high hopes. My highest hope is simply that he can help reduce turnovers.
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I think you misunderstood what I wrote and I'll clarify. I think a reason (not the reason) Grossman earned the job in the preseason is that if Shanny started Beck and Beck struggled early, the players and fans would have called for Grossman and the pressure would have been too great for Shanny to let Beck grow into the job. However, if Shanny started Grossman - which he did - fans and players could see Grossman do what he usually does: look good and terrible intermittently, get booed, and play himself out of the job. Then players and fans would have to be a little more patient with Beck, who is the better talent but has less experience and might have some growing pains.
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I just usually don't buy into the fans/pressure/political reasons for starting a certain player. I realize you aren't saying it's 100% of the decision, but I think it's pretty close to 0%. I just think they started the QB who they thought gave them the best chance to win and now they think someone else gives them the better chance. If Shanahan believed all along that Beck was better, I believe he would have started all along. Maybe I'm being naive because a lot of people seem to think there are many other factors.
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Many on local radio agree with Walman's assessment and discussed this in the pre-season.I don't think it means that they didnt think Rex gave them the better chance to win at the time. I think they did. But I also think they knew it would be "easier" to go from Rex to Beck then the other way around. I don't think fan pressure/politics was a factor but moreso Beck's confidence and perhaps managing expectations within the organization. Of course that's pure speculation and I could be completely off but just my $0.02.
 
Here is what scares me... GROSSman beat out Beck this offseason. I still don't understand why. Can anyone add color or reasoning that paints a better picture for Beck in losing out the direct competition to such a low quality NFL QB?

 
'LawFitz said:
Here is what scares me... GROSSman beat out Beck this offseason. I still don't understand why. Can anyone add color or reasoning that paints a better picture for Beck in losing out the direct competition to such a low quality NFL QB?
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Did you not read the thread?
 
'LawFitz said:
Here is what scares me... GROSSman beat out Beck this offseason. I still don't understand why. Can anyone add color or reasoning that paints a better picture for Beck in losing out the direct competition to such a low quality NFL QB?
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There are a few theories.In this thread, you've seen the "It's easier to go from Grossman to Beck than from Beck to Grossman" theory.There's also a theory that Kyle's a spoiled brat and gets whatever he wants from daddy and Kyle has always liked Grossman, so Grossman "won" the job.Then there's the theory that Grossman was the choice when the OL was healthy and providing decent protection. But, now that they're losing two OL, Beck is the right choice because he's more mobile.Or, there's a theory based on performance. When Grossman got his chance last year, after McNabb was benched, he showed an ability to move the offense and put up some points. Yes, he was still turning the ball over, but the offense was starting to click and performed better than it had most of the year. That continued through the first couple games of this year, not to mention Grossman outperformed Beck in the preseason and training camp practices. They've now hit three straight weeks of a declining offense. Grossman's big advantage over McNabb and Beck was his knowledge of the offense. Well, now Beck has 21 regular season games of observation. Beck possesses the better physical skills and, hopefully, he now has a better grasp of the system. That's my theory.
 
'dgreen said:
'LawFitz said:
Here is what scares me... GROSSman beat out Beck this offseason. I still don't understand why. Can anyone add color or reasoning that paints a better picture for Beck in losing out the direct competition to such a low quality NFL QB?
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There are a few theories.In this thread, you've seen the "It's easier to go from Grossman to Beck than from Beck to Grossman" theory.There's also a theory that Kyle's a spoiled brat and gets whatever he wants from daddy and Kyle has always liked Grossman, so Grossman "won" the job.Then there's the theory that Grossman was the choice when the OL was healthy and providing decent protection. But, now that they're losing two OL, Beck is the right choice because he's more mobile.Or, there's a theory based on performance. When Grossman got his chance last year, after McNabb was benched, he showed an ability to move the offense and put up some points. Yes, he was still turning the ball over, but the offense was starting to click and performed better than it had most of the year. That continued through the first couple games of this year, not to mention Grossman outperformed Beck in the preseason and training camp practices. They've now hit three straight weeks of a declining offense. Grossman's big advantage over McNabb and Beck was his knowledge of the offense. Well, now Beck has 21 regular season games of observation. Beck possesses the better physical skills and, hopefully, he now has a better grasp of the system. That's my theory.
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I like your theory. Thanks for the summary and the opinion. Grossman was too careless, playing like a gunslinger, but without the most accurate gun, especially under pressure. I can see how a guy like him would win when it doesn't count but then throw four picks when it does. If Beck can be more careful with the ball that would be a plus right away.
 
Grossman played better in preseason. He was more familiar with the offense, the playbook and the personnel.

after 4 INTs he was going to lose the team, so a change had to be made.

 
'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score.

If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
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Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.
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This isn't base on anything other than my "gut", but I think in this "new Redskins" locker room, I would have been surprised if players said, publicly or privately, that it was time for Grossman to sit and Beck to start. I don't think the verbal backing has as much to do with who the players prefer to have behind center as it does with players standing up for the guy taking heat from the media and fans. If the roles had been reversed, I would have expected similar comments for Beck. Again, nothing concrete to support this; just a feeling.
 
'Sidewinder16 said:
'dgreen said:
'Matt Waldman said:
I believe Shanahan made the right call to go with Beck first on a political level to keep his team. If Beck struggled early, the team and fans would have demanded to see Grossman and we know what Grossman is. It's better he let Grossman show what he can and can't do so now the team will be forced to be more patient with Beck unless the QB really does horrible. I doubt he will. In fact, I think he'll out perform Grossman by a noticeable margin both on the field and in the box score.

If you can't get Palmer and you need a QB, I'd be very happy with Beck.
Click to expand...
Most of the local reports have been that most of the players, both on the record and off the record, still backed Grossman. I don't think it means they're going to revolt or anything over this, but I also don't think there was going to be a locker room problem if Grossman was still the starter.
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This isn't base on anything other than my "gut", but I think in this "new Redskins" locker room, I would have been surprised if players said, publicly or privately, that it was time for Grossman to sit and Beck to start. I don't think the verbal backing has as much to do with who the players prefer to have behind center as it does with players standing up for the guy taking heat from the media and fans. If the roles had been reversed, I would have expected similar comments for Beck. Again, nothing concrete to support this; just a feeling.
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Well, I said "most of the local reports" because I have a heard a couple people say they've talked off record to some players who said they thought the switch should be made (before the switch was made). I think a lot of players are willing to be honest in an off-the-record situation. I agree, though, that this is a very supportive locker room. I doubt the off-the-record comments were overly negative toward Grossman; they were probably just a player saying who they think should be the QB.
 
'dgreen said:
Then there's the theory that Grossman was the choice when the OL was healthy and providing decent protection. But, now that they're losing two OL, Beck is the right choice because he's more mobile.
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Just read this:
Shanahan said he thinks Beck’s mobility, among other factors, played a part in his decision.
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Not sure what the exact quote is or how the question was phrased that he was answering. But, I'd have a hard time believing he was saying, "Now that we are missing some key pieces on our OL, Beck's mobility is the main factor that puts him ahead of Rex."I think Rex won the job based on performance and has now lost the job based on performance.
 
'Brock Middlebrook said:
Grossman played better in preseason. He was more familiar with the offense, the playbook and the personnel.
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Just to add to this, Beck had a groin injury in the preseason. He missed the first preseason game because of it. It gave Grossman more reps with the first team during training camp. Beck didn't have time to catch up with Grossman as far as knowledge of the offense during the shortened camp because he was hurt for 1/4 of it.
 
'thriftyrocker said:
'Brock Middlebrook said:
Grossman played better in preseason. He was more familiar with the offense, the playbook and the personnel.
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Just to add to this, Beck had a groin injury in the preseason. He missed the first preseason game because of it. It gave Grossman more reps with the first team during training camp. Beck didn't have time to catch up with Grossman as far as knowledge of the offense during the shortened camp because he was hurt for 1/4 of it.
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On the flip side, Grossman wasn't signed to a contract until after training camp started. Beck was QB1 at first in camp. Beck also was part of the player-organized practices during the lockout. Obviously that's not the same as getting more training camp reps, but it was some time with the starters.
 
He's locking onto reads and then taking too long to pull the trigger, which lets the defense get in his throwing lane. However the interception yesterday was definitely on Fred Davis for coming out of his break very slowly. Overall it almost looks like they've expected him to process too much because they're constantly in the huddle too long and barely getting the snap off. I'm not ready to say he's garbage since it's only his 9th start, but obviously with his age this is his only chance to pull it together.

 
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