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Dorial Green-Beckham (2 Viewers)

Timing.

Football Guys free article discussing the myth of the tall wide receiver.

Very lengthy in-depth article. Too long to cut-and-paste.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=HarstadWRSize2

Lies, Damned Lies, and Big ReceiversUnderstanding statistical inference and applying that knowledge to the WR size debate.
by Adam Harstad, April 8

As anyone who follows some of the principals on Fantasy Football Twitter knows, the importance of size among wide receivers is a divisive topic...
Click to expand...
 
Bracie Smathers said:
Timing.

Football Guys free article discussing the myth of the tall wide receiver.

Very lengthy in-depth article. Too long to cut-and-paste.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=HarstadWRSize2

Or you can read Mike Salfino and discover why at WR bigger is always better....unless it's not: bye bye Wilt and Kareem, sniff, sniff.

Lies, Damned Lies, and Big Receivers

Understanding statistical inference and applying that knowledge to the WR size debate.

by Adam Harstad, April 8

As anyone who follows some of the principals on Fantasy Football Twitter knows, the importance of size among wide receivers is a divisive topic...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
SI 64: Nos. 24-20: Erving, Green-Beckham, Gordon, Johnson, WilliamsExcerpt:

23. Dorial Green-Beckham, WR, Missouri/OklahomaBio: The incidents that led to Green-Beckham's dismissal from Missouri and subsequent year-long suspension after Oklahoma took him are well-known, but they include multiple drug issues and an alleged domestic incident, and they cast a pretty severe pall over perhaps the most physically gifted player in this draft class. At 6'5", 237 pounds with impressive physicality and top-end speed, Green-Beckham has the potential to redefine the passing game of the NFL team that takes him. He has an equal potential to drive himself out of the league in a big hurry.

Strengths: Has every base trait you'd want in a top-level receiver. Comes off the snap with smooth acceleration and sets into an extra gear quickly. Physical enough to make catches despite cornerbacks hanging all over him. Aggressive and willing blocker who will track the field to take a defender out. Uses his hands very well to get out and away from tight coverages—can box his own way out of trouble. Sticks his foot in the ground with authority to start routes cleanly and quickly. Consistent yards-after-catch receiver who uses agility as much as speed and power to extend plays. Rare height-weight-speed athlete.

Weaknesses: Off-field issues require serious cross-checking, and robbed him of a lot of football—legitimate questions about how long it will take him to adjust to the NFL in a lot of ways. Not a repeatable physical player outside of the splash plays; he must develop a play-after-play mentality. Route understanding is remedial at best, and he doesn't run the routes he knows with consistency. Won't be able to win against NFL-level coverage without a lot of spatial work.

Conclusion: At the scouting combine, Green-Beckham tried to explain, over and over, that he has moved past the mistakes that cut his college career short and made him far less appealing to a lot of NFL teams than his raw talent should make him.

"I know what’s at stake. I know what type of person I am. I understand what the NFL is looking for [from] me as a person. I just want them to know I’m going to go out there and give it my all and showing everybody what I’m capable of doing and focusing on being the best player I can be."

Fair enough, but even if he never transgresses again, Green-Beckham has a lot of work to do—and with the specter of Josh Gordon still hanging over the league, teams are going to be very careful about the off-field stuff. They should be more careful about the on-field stuff, because as talented as Green-Beckham is in the abstract, he's got a lot of work to do before he's a complete receiver, and he's got a strike against him in that he hasn't been on the field in a competitive sense in a long time. Green-Beckham could be the kind of player that could change an entire offense for the better... and he's also the kind of player who tends to get people fired—the inevitable high draft pick with traps all around.

Pro Comparison: Plaxico Burress, Giants (Round 1, 2000)
Click to expand...
 
Run It Up said:
Gandalf said:
Sabertooth said:
Run It Up said:
Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
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Not much more.
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8 of the top 15 last year were 6' or shorter. Including the number one guy. :shrug:
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Agreed. Being big is by far the most overrated attribute for a WR. By far. EOM
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Yeah, being able to catch the ball despite the coverage is really overrated.
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Height does not equal being able to catch the ball despite coverage

 
Saying height is overrated might be the worst opinion I've ever heard in regards to player ability.

You can't teach someone to be taller. I think Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL right now, and I think he'd be even better if he were 6 foot+

 
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Bracie Smathers said:
Timing.

Football Guys free article discussing the myth of the tall wide receiver.

Very lengthy in-depth article. Too long to cut-and-paste.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=HarstadWRSize2

Lies, Damned Lies, and Big ReceiversUnderstanding statistical inference and applying that knowledge to the WR size debate.
by Adam Harstad, April 8

As anyone who follows some of the principals on Fantasy Football Twitter knows, the importance of size among wide receivers is a divisive topic...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
ummm, Bracie, we need to talk. That article is not saying what you seem to think it is saying.

The article writer understands that size is, of course, not the "end all be all", but he also makes the point that size is certainly an important factor.

 
Run It Up said:
Saying height is overrated might be the worst opinion I've ever heard in regards to player ability.

You can't teach someone to be taller. I think Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL right now, and I think he'd be even better if he were 6 foot+
Click to expand...
Are you drunk right now??? I am saying that valuing height over everything else is not smart. Would you rather have Limas Sweed or Antonio Brown? It's a rhetorical question designed to make a point. Saying that being taller is better is not what anyone is even arguing. Height is like speed - more is better. I mean of course. What I am saying is that all these people who every year argue that WRs won't be good because they are under 6'2" are missing some really good players... Antionio Brown, Sammy Watkings, Odell Beckham, Edelman, Welker, Troy Brown, Isaac Bruce. And that is just off the top of my head.

 
Gandalf said:
Run It Up said:
Saying height is overrated might be the worst opinion I've ever heard in regards to player ability.

You can't teach someone to be taller. I think Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL right now, and I think he'd be even better if he were 6 foot+
Click to expand...
Are you drunk right now??? I am saying that valuing height over everything else is not smart. Would you rather have Limas Sweed or Antonio Brown? It's a rhetorical question designed to make a point. Saying that being taller is better is not what anyone is even arguing. Height is like speed - more is better. I mean of course. What I am saying is that all these people who every year argue that WRs won't be good because they are under 6'2" are missing some really good players... Antionio Brown, Sammy Watkings, Odell Beckham, Edelman, Welker, Troy Brown, Isaac Bruce. And that is just off the top of my head.
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You're right, idk how anyone could have misconstrued this:

Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
Click to expand...
as an implication that DGB does not possess the traits of a receiver outside of his size. Hes a pretty fantastic receiver, on top of that he has the exact frame you would want him to have.

 
Run It Up said:
Gandalf said:
Run It Up said:
Saying height is overrated might be the worst opinion I've ever heard in regards to player ability.

You can't teach someone to be taller. I think Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL right now, and I think he'd be even better if he were 6 foot+
Click to expand...
Are you drunk right now??? I am saying that valuing height over everything else is not smart. Would you rather have Limas Sweed or Antonio Brown? It's a rhetorical question designed to make a point. Saying that being taller is better is not what anyone is even arguing. Height is like speed - more is better. I mean of course. What I am saying is that all these people who every year argue that WRs won't be good because they are under 6'2" are missing some really good players... Antionio Brown, Sammy Watkings, Odell Beckham, Edelman, Welker, Troy Brown, Isaac Bruce. And that is just off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
You're right, idk how anyone could have misconstrued this:

Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
Click to expand...
as an implication that DGB does not possess the traits of a receiver outside of his size. Hes a pretty fantastic receiver, on top of that he has the exact frame you would want him to have.
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Not to put words in Sabertooth's mouth but that's actually what I'm about to do. He's saying that being tall alone is not enough to be a good WR. He is not saying that height does not matter at all.

 
Steve Grogan said:
Run It Up said:
Gandalf said:
Run It Up said:
Saying height is overrated might be the worst opinion I've ever heard in regards to player ability.

You can't teach someone to be taller. I think Antonio Brown is the best WR in the NFL right now, and I think he'd be even better if he were 6 foot+
Click to expand...
Are you drunk right now??? I am saying that valuing height over everything else is not smart. Would you rather have Limas Sweed or Antonio Brown? It's a rhetorical question designed to make a point. Saying that being taller is better is not what anyone is even arguing. Height is like speed - more is better. I mean of course. What I am saying is that all these people who every year argue that WRs won't be good because they are under 6'2" are missing some really good players... Antionio Brown, Sammy Watkings, Odell Beckham, Edelman, Welker, Troy Brown, Isaac Bruce. And that is just off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
You're right, idk how anyone could have misconstrued this:

Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
Click to expand...
as an implication that DGB does not possess the traits of a receiver outside of his size. Hes a pretty fantastic receiver, on top of that he has the exact frame you would want him to have.
Click to expand...
Not to put words in Sabertooth's mouth but that's actually what I'm about to do. He's saying that being tall alone is not enough to be a good WR. He is not saying that height does not matter at all.
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Otherwise Ramses Barden would be a top 10 WR.

Personally, I SEE the talent, but I simply can't ignore the off-field flags. If nothing else, the guy really hasn't been in a "football environment" consistently enough for me to think that he can transition to the NFL fluidly. If it was an average year I'd say swing for the fences but there are a lot of options at the position this year. I am hoping guys in my league burn their picks on him and take him out of the decision for me by the time my picks arrive.

 
FWIW, I knwo you guys dont care... But for some fantasy "news"

Long standing 12 team PPR w friends - The guy with the 1.02 pick is going DGB. Never lies either, he tells you every move he's gonna do before he makes it... He's just one of those guys.

Mind you... we also laughed at him for taking Kelvin Benjamin at 1.04 last year, and that seemed to work out tons better than we all expected.

 
Rotoworld:

Oklahoma WR Dorial Green-Beckham "presents problems for defenses because of his size-speed combo (6-5, 237 pounds with a 4.49 40)," notes ESPN's Todd McShay.
"He doesn't gain much separation out of his cuts, but he doesn't have to," McShay wrote. "When the ball is in the air he can go up and get it, no matter how good the coverage is. He started to come into his own the last five games of his sophomore season." Green-Beckham had only 883 receiving yards during his sophomore season, the most productive of his two campaigns in college, even though Missouri passed 414 times that year. He's a boom-or-bust proposition.

Source: ESPN Insider
Apr 14 - 7:13 PM
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Soulfly3 said:
FWIW, I knwo you guys dont care... But for some fantasy "news"

Long standing 12 team PPR w friends - The guy with the 1.02 pick is going DGB. Never lies either, he tells you every move he's gonna do before he makes it... He's just one of those guys.

Mind you... we also laughed at him for taking Kelvin Benjamin at 1.04 last year, and that seemed to work out tons better than we all expected.
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Sounds like one of those guys that strongly believes in the physical attributes of a player.

 
Sabertooth said:
Run It Up said:
Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
Click to expand...
Not much more.
Click to expand...
8 of the top 15 last year were 6' or shorter. Including the number one guy. :shrug:
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Would really like to see this list and how many of the smaller guys have top 10 qb's.

For me, the big wr preference is a lot about being able to contribute with a lesser qb (for fantasy purposes, not IRL) and be a potentially bigger factor in the RZ

How many 6'1 and smaller guys in the top 24 have a scrub QB?

 
Pwingles said:
Sabertooth said:
Run It Up said:
Sabertooth said:
There's a lot more to being a receiver than being big.
Click to expand...
Not much more.
Click to expand...
8 of the top 15 last year were 6' or shorter. Including the number one guy. :shrug:
Click to expand...
Would really like to see this list and how many of the smaller guys have top 10 qb's.

For me, the big wr preference is a lot about being able to contribute with a lesser qb (for fantasy purposes, not IRL) and be a potentially bigger factor in the RZ

How many 6'1 and smaller guys in the top 24 have a scrub QB?
Click to expand...
Jeremy Maclin, Odell Beckham, DeAndre Hopkins, Mike Wallace, Anquan Boldin and Desean Jackson all finished in the top 24 in PPR with scrub QBs. Sammy Watkins and Jarvis Landry were 25th and 26th, respectively. Golden Tate and Steve Smith also finished in the top 20, although I would not classify Stafford and Flacco as scrubs; they did finish outside the top 10 at QB if that is your criteria.

ETA: I don't really think Eli is a scrub, but rather he was a pre-emptive rebuttal to "Jay Cutler and Andy Dalton are scrubs" if Alshon Jeffery and AJ Green are to be used to support your argument.

 
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Rotoworld:

Dorial Green-Beckham - WR - Sooners

Oklahoma WR Dorial Green-Beckham "is a remarkable physical specimen, but an NFL team should weigh the risk/reward factor before offering Green-Beckham a big paycheck in a league intent on dolling out punishment at the hint of an impropriety," according to NFLDraftScout.com's Frank Cooney.

The analyst acknowledges that DGB has top-10 talent, but is spooked, as are many analysts, by the player's off-field transgressions. Green-Beckham didn't offer much on that subject when asked about it by reporters at the combine. "It's very tough for me. It's tough for me to stand up here and be able to speak in front of all you guys because I haven't spoken in the past year," Green-Beckham said. "It's very tough for me to just take that chance I had last year to sit out and not speak and be able to focus on the things that I needed to focus on off the field."

Source: CBS Sports

Apr 17 - 9:01 PM
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Soulfly3 said:
Galactus is going to crush this league
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I hope so. Own him in a devy and recently turned down the 1.04 rookie pick for him...Gurley, Gordon, Cooper also rostered already.

So my thought process is, the top-3 have to be some combo of White, Parker, and the top RB (probably Ajayi).

I don't see anything definite enough to move DGB for that 4th player, who is probably Perriman/Strong/Abdullah/Smith, etc.

 
"Galactus" is gonna catch.... I can feel it.

This will be glorious.

How should I get in contact w DGB/his agent for my signed jersey?

 
Run It Up said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
The way grilled dez probably had something to do with it.
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Run It Up said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
The way grilled dez probably had something to do with it.
Click to expand...
Ireland with the Dolphins is the guy who grilled Dez at the Combine, not the Cowboys.
 
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Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed

 
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?

 
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.

dont know if id lean too hard on his emphasis of character.

 
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Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.

dont know if id lean too hard on his emphasis of character.
Click to expand...
How long did rice, pierce and that animal abuser (dont temember his name) last after their transgressions?Additionally, newsome was GM after the incident, for whatever thats worth

 
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Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.
Click to expand...
That's why they won't. Ray Rice last year is why DGB isn't going near this team.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.

dont know if id lean too hard on his emphasis of character.
Click to expand...
Almost spit my drink out lol

 
I distinctly remember someone being accused of pouring bleach on his gf and kid. Later she admitted that he only threatened to do it while holding the bottle over them on the ground.

Suggs.

 
Pwingles said:
I never said that hes not on their radar, only that the first round was not likely for he and Bal
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I won't waver from my prediction that he's gone in the first. Haven't waved for months now. I dont even think top 20 is out of the question...

But 1st I think it quite likely.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
I never said that hes not on their radar, only that the first round was not likely for he and Bal
Click to expand...
I won't waver from my prediction that he's gone in the first. Haven't waved for months now. I dont even think top 20 is out of the question...

But 1st I think it quite likely.
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I have noticed youre quite enamored with him. I really like him as well. A first round selection from another team is something i would put in the realm of 'a fair possibility'. No doubt for me that he is a no.1 guy. But, crazy things happen when owners and experts start fear mongering.

 
Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.

dont know if id lean too hard on his emphasis of character.
Click to expand...
Terrible comment. Neither had happened when Ozzie drafted them (did he even draft Lewis?) and values aren't so rigid that they can't change over time. Terrible.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hankmoody said:
Soulfly3 said:
Pwingles said:
ldizzle said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
Turned down an invite from the Cowboys. Wonder if he has it on good faith he's gonna go before they pick in round one?
Click to expand...
he visited the niners bengals and ravens and one other team i cant remember right now. WR is a position of need for the ravens and i dont think the bengals or niners would take him that high. Im thinking the ravens did a handshake deal and thats where he is headed
Click to expand...
No shot. With Ozzies emphasis on character, you think he gambles his 1st?
Click to expand...
he's had a murderer and a knockout artist under his belt.

dont know if id lean too hard on his emphasis of character.
Click to expand...
Terrible comment. Neither had happened when Ozzie drafted them (did he even draft Lewis?) and values aren't so rigid that they can't change over time. Terrible.
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The same Newsome who was hired as GM in 2002?

The same Ray Lewis charged w Obstruction of Justice (aka, got off on murder) in what was it? 2000?

So, Newsome had NO problem keeping a murderer on his roster after becoming GM... yet my comment is terrible? ok.

 
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