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Drunken Cowboy

***Official Pittsburgh Pirates 2012 Thread***

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I figured it is time to get this started up for next season.

The Barajas signing makes no sense to me at all.

They'll lead the league in passed balls if they don't put a catcher in the lineup

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I figured it is time to get this started up for next season.

The Barajas signing makes no sense to me at all.

They'll lead the league in passed balls if they don't put a catcher in the lineup
I would rather see them play Jaramillo.

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None of the Pirates' internal options at catcher can hit AT ALL. They didn't want to sign anyone to a 2-3 year deal and block Sanchez in case he remembers how to play baseball.

I would have preferred Ramon Hernandez, but maybe he has Type A/B classification issues, I'm not sure. I wouldn't give up a pick for him.

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I don't mind the Barajas signing at all. He gives them a catcher with the most amount of pop the Pirates have had in a long time at that position. Decent enough price tag too.

Who else were they gonna put in there?

Maybe Spanky will come out of retirement.

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I don't mind the Barajas signing at all. He gives them a catcher with the most amount of pop the Pirates have had in a long time at that position. Decent enough price tag too.

Who else were they gonna put in there?

Maybe Spanky will come out of retirement.

I don't mind the signing because there are really no other great options. However, for all the "pop" that Barajas will provide, get used to a .230 BA and sub-300 OBP. What a black hole this position has been for us since Kendall's prime.

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Though Barajas is 36, and only played in 88 games last year (the second consecutive season of not playing in at least 100 games), he's the only legitimate MLB backstop on the roster. McKenry's .159 BA in the final 2 months of 2011 was not encouraging. It was a major area of need, and the pitching staff collapsed in the last 60 games.

This probably distinguishes the Pirates' "commitment" to winning from other teams more than anything: The Brewers are negotiating with Jimmy Rollins, while the Pirates are looking at a cheaper option than Ronny Cedeno. It's some back-up infielder from Detroit who can't hit. Chase D'Ar-"not" the answer since he can't hit either. Unless they can get Cedeno signed to a lower salary than last year, they may as well bat the pitcher 8th.

I was sorry to read that talks with Neil Walker on an extension have cooled, but that was apparent when the team named Charlie Morton their "Breakout Player of the Year." Evidently, no one looked at the stats for Morton's final ten starts. To be fair, he was pitching in pain, which again raises the matter of why they didn't shut him down, a la Correia and Maholm.

The team will likely now wait until the Cuddyers and Willinghams get signed by other clubs, then go about the usual dumpster-diving. Anybody know if Scott Olson is on a roster?

Thanks for starting a new thread. :bye: We needed it.

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He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues.

Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby

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He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues.Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby

The question is--Will Sanchez ever be ready for the big leagues? Time will tell but it isn't looking promising so far.

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He makes a nice placeholder at C until Tony Sanchez is ready for the big leagues.Also, having McKenry/Jaramillo as backups not too shabby

4 million is a lot of money to spend on a place holder if you are the Pirates.

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Brandon Wood was picked up by the Rockies. Evidently, he played for the Bucs in 2011. The team will be hard-pressed to find someone to replace him who can strike out as often. I don't think Mark Reynolds is available.

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What are the odds the team offers Derrick Lee salary arbitration? While they can sure use him next season, he seems indifferent to being a Pirate and the club isn't going to agree to the kind of cash Lee would expect.

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What are the odds the team offers Derrick Lee salary arbitration? While they can sure use him next season, he seems indifferent to being a Pirate and the club isn't going to agree to the kind of cash Lee would expect.

Sorry. It's Derrek. I never seem to spell his first name right.

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I guess the Pirates "plan" is going to be over before it really began.

"If you're a fan of a team that's putting huge investments into scouting/draft/international, that's over. Sorry." - Kevin Goldstein

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Planning to go to the Tigers series at PNC in June. :thumbup:

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I like the Jake Fox minor league deal as a decent low risk, medium reward move

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Jake Fox might be worth a shot.

I see the Bucs did not protect Tim Alderson (or Andrew Lambo) on the 40-man roster. In trades with the Giants, the Pirates received Alderson for Freddy Sanchez and also John Bowker and Joe Martinez for Javier Lopez. Both Lopez and Garcia likely are grateful to Neal Huntington. Without NH, neither player would have been part of a World Series winning team.

The Pirates are looking at Aaron Cook. With his 6.03 ERA last year, I'm not sure Hurdle realizes that Aaron Cook's skills, probably like Clint Barmes, may have declined since Hurdle was in Colorado. However, if the Bucs add Cook, he would be ideal, given his stats, as a sub for Morton should Charlie not be ready in time for the start of the 2012 season.

If the Pirates want to please some fans during the Winter Caravan, they should find a way to derail talk that extension negotiations with Neil Walker and Andrew McCutchen have "cooled" or "stalled." Those characterizations don't go over well when trying to promote a future contender.

The Nationals still owe Adam LaRoche a lot of $$$, but are talking to Prince Fielder? Washington must have much more revenue for salaries than Pittsburgh.

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Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft?

I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

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Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft?I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

Yeah, pretty much. They are taking away the 1 advantage that poor teams have, which is the ability to overspend in the draft and lock up cheap talent. AND they're also capping Latin American spending, so you can't put the money there. Teams who spend too much $$$ in the draft will forfeit picks or face fines. Read Jonah Keri's article here for more details: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/10571/mlbs-new-cba-is-no-help-to-small-market-clubsThis is definitely bad for the Pirates. Luckily they have already got a decent core in the minors, but they can't really improve it now. Maybe if NH is smart enough to be the first one to find the loopholes, but what are the odds of that?

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)....

"The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

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The amateur draft rules hasn't been the reason the Pirates have sucked for two decades

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The amateur draft rules hasn't been the reason the Pirates have sucked for two decades

:thumbup: :thumbup:

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Can somebody explain the BS going on with the MLB labor deal and the draft?I may be done with baseball. They are keeping the same rules at the MLB level and making it harder to draft talent? Congrats Yanks fans.

Yeah, pretty much. They are taking away the 1 advantage that poor teams have, which is the ability to overspend in the draft and lock up cheap talent. AND they're also capping Latin American spending, so you can't put the money there. Teams who spend too much $$$ in the draft will forfeit picks or face fines. Read Jonah Keri's article here for more details: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/10571/mlbs-new-cba-is-no-help-to-small-market-clubsThis is definitely bad for the Pirates. Luckily they have already got a decent core in the minors, but they can't really improve it now. Maybe if NH is smart enough to be the first one to find the loopholes, but what are the odds of that?
I don't think the draft rules are bad for small market teams. It ups the value of an early pick. Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

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Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?

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Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?
Well it evens out how teams acquire rookies/international players to an extent and takes away teams ability to lock up young players long term on the (relative) cheap, because the MLB playing field is still anything BUT level. So if the Pirates need to build in the draft for several years to have a team in the future, they really can't because you start losing draft picks when you spend on good talent. And then when arbitration years come around, you now have to offer a guaranteed contract based on the top 125 player salaries in order to get draft compensation? The Yanks of the world still get to pick-off talent from around the league in free agency without any checks on it, but you can't pay young players?

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Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?
Well it evens out how teams acquire rookies/international players to an extent and takes away teams ability to lock up young players long term on the (relative) cheap, because the MLB playing field is still anything BUT level. So if the Pirates need to build in the draft for several years to have a team in the future, they really can't because you start losing draft picks when you spend on good talent. And then when arbitration years come around, you now have to offer a guaranteed contract based on the top 125 player salaries in order to get draft compensation? The Yanks of the world still get to pick-off talent from around the league in free agency without any checks on it, but you can't pay young players?
It's not like paying over slot was a market inefficiency the Pirates exploited for years. It wasn't that long ago they were making first round selections of guys like Daniel Moskos who were signable without paying over slot. It was only in the last couple of years that Huntington rolled the dice on paying over slot for Allie and Josh Bell. This tactic will be harder to play under the new agreement but not impossible. On the plus side, it'll keep everybody from overspending on risky high school players.

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)...."The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)...."The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.
Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively.The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members.I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.

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Teams that are poor and dumb will continue to struggle. That is true. In the case of the Pirates, I view them as neither poor nor dumb. The organization is shrewd and brazen. They mislead the public with the claim of building a winner. Yet, the owners, who are not paupers, realize they can turn a decent profit without having to spend much or field a competitive team. Really, where's the incentive? People will still come to the games, buy the merchandise, etc. Hardcore fans have remained loyal.

Coonelly and Huntington are champion spin-meisters, and for all the talk about both being or have been on the hot seat(s), they remain the front office ("the best management team in baseball") with NH receiving a 3-year extension. One hopes that, in time, fans will see through the pretense and realize how duped they've been by the semblance of progress.

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)...."The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.
Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively.The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members.I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.
Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)...."The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.
Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively.The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members.I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.
Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.
The jury is still out on how effective overslotting is going to be. Some of their overslot guys from the 2009 draft struggled this year. Stetson Allie had an ERA of nearly 8 in A ball. Luis Heredia walked 15 in 18 innings. Zack von Rosenberg got shelled. Colton Cain looks legit and it's too early to tell about the 2010 and 2011 picks.

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Capping Latin American spending could be rough though. This could easily result in a situation where a couple of teams get all of the good talent.

HOW? When they all have the same budget for this?
If money is in no way a factor in signing, everybody will go to the Yankees.

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of course nobody bothers to mention the relief for small market teams also included in the CBA (and in fact in Keri's article linked aboove)...."The new CBA does offer some allowances for poorer teams, too. A "competitive balance lottery" kicks in that awards extra draft picks to the lowest-revenue teams in the smallest markets, with the odds of winning one of the six bonus picks after the first round weighted based on lowest winning percentage, and six more bonus picks awarded to leftover teams after the second round. Baseball will also tweak its revenue-sharing system, with the new CBA preventing clubs in the 15 largest markets from receiving revenue-sharing funds by 2016. Most visibly, baseball gets one extra wild-card team per league starting in either 2012 or 2013, thus offering a bit more hope and faith to lesser teams hoping to play into October."

So, you're comparing the possibility of getting an extra pick with the ability to go after overslot guys in every round? And the extra wildcard slot will make FAs even more expensive. This was a deal that slanted the rules even further in favor of the big markets.
Nobody has ever gone over slot in every round. It's a tactical weapon used to sign high school talent with options for college or in other sports. Teams will still be able to practice this selectively.The deal was approved by the owners who in theory protect themselves from overspending in one area, and by the MLBPA who figure teams saving money in the amateur draft will be able to spend more on union members.I don't think this change will change competitive balance as much as people fear. Rich teams will still have their advantages and smart organizations will find areas to exploit. Teams that are both poor and dumb will continue to struggle.
Even the lead negotiator for the owners couldn't claim the draft savings were going to the union members with a straight face for long. As for slotting, that tactical weapon has largely been neutered. Current estimates are that next year's draft budgets will range from 11.5 million to 4.5 million. Meaning the max overslot you can go would be 575k - 225k. Thats for an entire draft. Last season the Pirates spent 17 million including waaaay overslot deals for Garrit Cole, Josh Bell and Clay Holmes. All of those signings were overslot by well more than 575k. The Pirates effectively transformed a second round pick into a top 10 pick and a ninth round pick into a sandwich pick through their aggressive spending. That is no longer possible.
The jury is still out on how effective overslotting is going to be. Some of their overslot guys from the 2009 draft struggled this year. Stetson Allie had an ERA of nearly 8 in A ball. Luis Heredia walked 15 in 18 innings. Zack von Rosenberg got shelled. Colton Cain looks legit and it's too early to tell about the 2010 and 2011 picks.
For the Pirates? Sure. Overall, not so much.

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This lack of urgency I am sensing might force me to not get my typical 10 game package this year. Last season I was kind of excited going into the season. This year I feel meh. They have some time I guess, but Nate Mclouth? Come on now.

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There's a rumor making the rounds that the Pirates and SP Erik Bedard are close to a 1 yr, 4.5 mil guaranteed deal.

Would be a nice low risk/high reward signing for Pirates.

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