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Drunken Cowboy

***Official Pittsburgh Pirates 2012 Thread***

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Nate McLouth? Seriously?

Bench fodder.Your starting OF is Tabata/McCutchen/Presley.

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Also, looking like Pirates will be signing Wilson Betemit as a reserve infielder too.

Just need to improve 1B and things dont look that bad; still not ideal.

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McLouth, Bedard, Betemit

It's too bad the new CBA prevents the Pirates being competitive

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McLouth, Bedard, BetemitIt's too bad the new CBA prevents the Pirates being competitive

The new CBA certainly doesnt help the Pirates, but the reason they've been so bad is a combination of terrible drafting (Littlefield years/Early NH years) leading to a depleted farm system, the blatant lack of commitment towards "league average" resources at the Major League level (consistently in the lowest % of team salary) and the pieces they add to the major league level are retreads that are way past their prime that they throw serious $$$ at (i.e. Derrek Bell, Pat Meares, Jeromy Burnitz, Matt Morris, Benito Santiago, etc...).It was proven for the 1st few months of the year that there are still plenty of fans out there that are interested in the product if they put a product worth coming out to on the field.

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The new CBA certainly doesnt help the Pirates, but the reason they've been so bad is a combination of terrible drafting (Littlefield years/Early NH years) leading to a depleted farm system, the blatant lack of commitment towards "league average" resources at the Major League level (consistently in the lowest % of team salary) and the pieces they add to the major league level are retreads that are way past their prime that they throw serious $$$ at (i.e. Derek Bell, Pat Meares, Jeromy Burnitz, Matt Morris, Benito Santiago, etc...).

Operation Shutdown was classic

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Also, looking like Pirates will be signing Wilson Betemit as a reserve infielder too.

Just need to improve 1B and things dont look that bad; still not ideal.

Wow, just wow. This is what 20 years of losing does to a fan base.

The bar hasn't only been lowered, it's rolling down the basement steps.

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Betemit reportedly is out of the Pirates' plans. No word on Derrek Lee, but talk was he sought a 1-year $12 million deal.

Bedard is an intriguing gamble at the price ($4.5 million) when you consider he'll be getting $10 million less next year than what the Marlins agreed to with Mark Buerhle. However, he's the type of player the team will use early in the season and then trade to a contender looking for a lefty starter. In the last 4 seasons, he started 54 games, missing all of 2010, and has a 16-16 W/L record in that span. Low risk, decent reward if he stays healthy.

I read the Mets are shopping Ike Davis. But I doubt the Pirates have anything NY needs, not even Hanrahan, especially since the Mets just solidified their bullpen.

With these recent acquisitions, the team is inching toward mediocrity. Not there yet, but close.

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Betemit reportedly is out of the Pirates' plans. No word on Derrek Lee, but talk was he sought a 1-year $12 million deal.Bedard is an intriguing gamble at the price ($4.5 million) when you consider he'll be getting $10 million less next year than what the Marlins agreed to with Mark Buerhle. However, he's the type of player the team will use early in the season and then trade to a contender looking for a lefty starter. In the last 4 seasons, he started 54 games, missing all of 2010, and has a 16-16 W/L record in that span. Low risk, decent reward if he stays healthy.I read the Mets are shopping Ike Davis. But I doubt the Pirates have anything NY needs, not even Hanrahan, especially since the Mets just solidified their bullpen.With these recent acquisitions, the team is inching toward mediocrity. Not there yet, but close.

The Mets would be looking for minor leaguers to trade Davis, so yes, the Pirates would have players that fit into the Mets plans.

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If Ike Davis expects more than $6 mil a year, he is not on the radar.

Bucs just obtained Yamaico Navarro from KC. This is certainly exciting news given his MLB track record. The strikeout-prone Ian Stewart may no longer be an option (I guess the one-time interest in Garrett Atkins is thankfully dead unless Hurdle inexplicably thinks Atkins can still play). Betemit must have priced himself out of the team's price range, which is very easy to do.

Amazing. Barmes, Barajas, Bedard, Jose Morales, etc. Now that we have complementary players in the twilight of average careers, we could use some stars those players can complement. How the Marlins, Brewers, and Mariners can bid for big-time talent like Reyes, Fielder, and Pujols, while Pittsburgh won't even go there ought to underscore to fans what parameters the team operates within. Please don't recite the small market stuff. Quick shots of false hope prevail. The Bucs can't even pursue a Jimmy Rollins or CJ Wilson.

We will continue to write off seasons months before they begin until guys like Marte, Locke, and the recently drafted players are ready for the majors. However, by then, the Andrew McCutchen-types will be in the uniforms of contending teams, just like other Bucs the team chose to let loose due to financial "constraints."

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JonathanMayoB3 Jonathan MayoBest name of the entire Rule 5 might be Aaron Poreda, LHP once a top prospect, taken in the Triple-A phrase by the Pirates

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To get a sense of what Pirate fans and columnists think of the Bucs' offseason, especially NH's remarks that the team is in great shape:http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31055-huntington-were-in-a-great-spot

Yup they're only a few pieces away. It's depressing being a fan of this team while a team like the Marlins goes nuts.

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So can the Pirates trade for Mark Trumbo now that Pujols is an Angel?

Sure.....BUT what do you want to give up that the Angels want enough to trade him?

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Bucs: Pirates Acquire Yamaico Navarro

By: Chris Gates

December 8, 2011 6:04 AM

(93-7 The FAN) — The Pittsburgh Pirates traded with Kansas City for infielder Yamaico Navarro Wednesday evening.

In turn, the Pirates traded away minor league pitcher Brooks Pounders and infielder Diego Goris.

Navarro, 24, played in 36 major league games with the Boston Red Sox and six with the Royals last season. He hit .206 in the big leagues and .264 with seven home runs in the minors.

The Pirates are expected to make a move with their 40-man roster Thursday to compensate for the trade.

:mellow:

A .206 hitter. Just what the Bucs needed!

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So can the Pirates trade for Mark Trumbo now that Pujols is an Angel?

Sure.....BUT what do you want to give up that the Angels want enough to trade him?
Depends. Hanrrahan maybe. If Marte is ready to make the leap maybe one of the outfielders. Bucs seem to be loaded there in the system.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.
Everything is too bad for Pirates fans, starting with the owners.Off topic I know, but does anyone believe Ryan Braun will serve a 50 game suspension? Also, where can some Pirates get PEDs?

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.
When has he pouted? And he seemed to put in a lot of work last off-season and I thought by all accounts he had a pretty good attitude. He just swings too hard at too many pitches. This kind of thinking is what gets Aramis Ramirez traded for a bag of chips.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.
When has he pouted? And he seemed to put in a lot of work last off-season and I thought by all accounts he had a pretty good attitude. He just swings too hard at too many pitches. This kind of thinking is what gets Aramis Ramirez traded for a bag of chips.
:goodposting: I agree with this guy. Give Pedro a little time. If you need some inspiration, just look at Alex Gordon in KC. People wrote him off as dead because expectations were too high too soon.

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The Brewers must not be sold on Casey McGehee to send him to the Bucs for Veras. And, of course, the price is right as far as the Pirates go, since McGahee is supposed to earn what? 3 million this season? All reports are he's a good guy, and only 29 yrs old.

Well, McGehee has had some success and shows power despite regressing last year. They weren't getting a Cuddyer or Willingham anyway, so what the heck. Whatever. Looks like a lot of new players. Wonder who is going to be shipped out so that the MLB salary for the team stays under $50 mil.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.
When has he pouted? And he seemed to put in a lot of work last off-season and I thought by all accounts he had a pretty good attitude. He just swings too hard at too many pitches. This kind of thinking is what gets Aramis Ramirez traded for a bag of chips.
:goodposting: I've never heard of any issues with his work ethic. Unfortunately he may just not be as good as he was hyped up. Time will tell.

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The Pirates season hinges on Pedro Alvarez. Guy has all the talent in the world but what appears a terrible work ethic, coupled with a poor attitude. If he shows up, and works on his game, the lineup falls into place.

He's not that good
I am leaning towards that way of thinking. Looked like a guy who could hit .275 with 35 homers and 100 rbis, solid middle of the order bat. But he doesn't put in the work in the offseason, then pouts during the season. It's too bad for Pirates fans.
When has he pouted? And he seemed to put in a lot of work last off-season and I thought by all accounts he had a pretty good attitude. He just swings too hard at too many pitches. This kind of thinking is what gets Aramis Ramirez traded for a bag of chips.
:goodposting: I've never heard of any issues with his work ethic. Unfortunately he may just not be as good as he was hyped up. Time will tell.
He has to improve a lot against lefties to even be an every day player

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Pirates signed Ryota Igarashi, 32 year-old reliever with crummy stats in his MLB career and essentially no real chance to contribute favorably to the club.

When is the World Series celebration parade in downtown (Daun-tahn)Pgh?

Team's MLB club salary is currently 46 million, give or taken a couple hundred thousand. Still a chance to sign Fielder to a 20 mil a year contract to up that to a payroll in the mid 60 million range, kind of what other teams might do. They need a big right-handed bat at first base. He's the logical choice. Get Scott Boras on the phone.

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Maybe Igarashi is another low-level attempt at building name recognition in Japan. Otherwise it seems like a strange signing, with the Pirates having a deep bullpen even after Veras was dealt.

McGehee is a nice hedge against Alvarez continuing to struggle against lefties.

I'm not sure why the Pirates are spending so much on low-level players but I'm guessing it has something to do with the new CBA. Now if they could bring in D Lee or Carlos Pena for 1B, things might look a little better.

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Tonight, Ebenezer Nutting will be visited by 3 Pirate ghosts. The first will lead him from 1960 to the early 1990s. The second, the Ghost of Pirate Present will lead him the a 72-win season. The Ghost of Pirates Future will also lead him to a string of 72-win seasons, an empty stadium, a team payroll of 45 million when the average is over 90 million, and a cheesy little profit for his ski resort where Neal Huntington is the desk clerk.

Pony up to the table, Scrooge. Still a lot of good players worth signing, ya tightwad.

Merry Christmas, all you Pirates posters!

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Tonight, Ebenezer Nutting will be visited by 3 Pirate ghosts. The first will lead him from 1960 to the early 1990s. The second, the Ghost of Pirate Present will lead him the a 72-win season. The Ghost of Pirates Future will also lead him to a string of 72-win seasons, an empty stadium, a team payroll of 45 million when the average is over 90 million, and a cheesy little profit for his ski resort where Neal Huntington is the desk clerk.Pony up to the table, Scrooge. Still a lot of good players worth signing, ya tightwad.Merry Christmas, all you Pirates posters!

Maybe Tiny Tim Alderson will get a fastball for Xmas

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Tonight, Ebenezer Nutting will be visited by 3 Pirate ghosts. The first will lead him from 1960 to the early 1990s. The second, the Ghost of Pirate Present will lead him the a 72-win season. The Ghost of Pirates Future will also lead him to a string of 72-win seasons, an empty stadium, a team payroll of 45 million when the average is over 90 million, and a cheesy little profit for his ski resort where Neal Huntington is the desk clerk.Pony up to the table, Scrooge. Still a lot of good players worth signing, ya tightwad.Merry Christmas, all you Pirates posters!

Maybe Tiny Tim Alderson will get a fastball for Xmas
:goodposting:

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No buzz with all the arbitration avoiding contracts?

Why??? nothing out of the ordinary

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No buzz with all the arbitration avoiding contracts?

Why??? nothing out of the ordinary
I think he was kidding, Chief.

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Can you name the Pirates opening-day lineups from 1991 through last season?This is pretty pathetic when you look at the guys from about 1995 though 2007 or so.http://www.sporcle.com/games/johnmadden/pirateslineups#

You got 93 out of 180 answers correctI got the entire 2001 lineup correct :bag: Most of those lineups are horrendous (95%)

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Milwaukee is a somewhat smaller market than Pittsburgh, but the Brewers payroll may top 100 million this year. The Bucs are still under 50 million. And not all the Brewers talent is home-grown.

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Milwaukee is a somewhat smaller market than Pittsburgh, but the Brewers payroll may top 100 million this year. The Bucs are still under 50 million. And not all the Brewers talent is home-grown.

Gallardo, Braun, Weeks, the core of that team are home grown. The reason they were able to get Greinke and Marcum was because of their minor league depth. The Pirates, after years of ignoring the draft, finally invested money beginning 2 years ago. It was a horrible farm system, so it will take some time to grow organizational depth. First, they need to keep their young players, and then when a solid team has been assembled, they can add pieces.

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Perhaps the top two producers for the Pirates last year were Andrew McCutchen and Neil Walker---pre-Huntington guys. Prior to Neal Huntington's arrival and during Littlefield's tenure, they drafted and/or developed guys like Doumit, Jack Wilson, Maholm, Brad Lincoln, Daniel Moskos, Nyger Morgan (now a Brewer), Gorzelanny, Evan Meek, etc. Aramis Ramirez is a Brewer now as well, though he pre-dates Littlefield, as does a fellow named Jose Bautista. You can count Rajah Davis, Nate McLouth,and John Grabow in there, among others. I think it is a popular myth to say the cupboard was bare before Huntington came to town though the prior regime produced a number of players on current MLB rosters. Often, Littlefield was bound to draft a Bryan Bullington since the organization was not poised to pay for a pricier choice. If the organization was in shambles, it was because the financially-based refusal to seek out and select the best talent played a big part. Littlefield was a convenient scapegoat, though he was doomed on the Matt Morris deal.

The Pirates appear to be paying out some $ now, but we've yet to see Neal's so-called skill in "rebuilding" the farm system materialize to the extent fans believe. Guys like Tony Sanchez and Tim Alderson seem still to be a good ways from contributing, if they can, while others did not pan out. And Victor Black is still in Class A? Who knows what will happen with Pedro Alvarez, though we hope he's seen the light? Alvarez's future likely will be the referendum on NH's eventual career with the Bucs.

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So there was that quote the other day saying that the Pirates would only trade McCutchen if somebody drastically over paid and backed up the truck. But reading the full quote, the last part really upsets me:

We’re in a different stage. We’re in a stage where we are looking to take this team and turn it into a winning team. Then try to take that and make it as consistent as we possibly can. So the motivation is very different. Never say never. If somebody wants to back up the truck and give us one of those organizational altering deals, it’s something we would have to listen to. But there are some players on our club that are extremely difficult to move and it would have to be a dramatic overpay on the part of the other club. We’ve got some guys that were are looking to build a club around as we go forward. We’ve got Andrew McCutchen under contract for the Pirates for four more seasons, and we expect to do some damage here during that time frame.

To me, that implies that after 4 years, he is gone. Considering I am yet to renew my tickets, that was a bad line. I've been holding out hope, but it seems there may be none.

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Leeroy, your fears about McCutchen's future are well-founded. He'll be gone. Take a gander at this:

http://isportsweb.com/2012/01/25/pittsburgh-pirates-gm-continues-indirect-mccutchen-bashing/

Huntington is poisoning the waters so that McCutchen's eventual departure will be perceived as Andrew's instead of the Bucs dropping the ball.

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