JaxBill

*** Official Jaguars Thread - New uniforms leaked because Jaguars ***

2,889 posts in this topic

Just wanted to start this thread since it seems like there's a bunch of different threads propagating the board. Also, my intent was to have a somewhat meaningful discussion of the team. If you are coming here to post tarp jokes or disparage the town please keep looking for a different thread. What We Know - JDR is out and Mel Tucker is the interim HC. - Gene Smith has signed an extension to be GM for the next 3 years. - Shahid Khan is expected to be approved as new owner at the next owner's meeting. - The defense is ranked 4th in ypg and 5th in ppg. - The offense is dreadful, dead last by a WIDE margin. What We Don't Know - Was JDR dialing back the offense or did Koetter think that was all his rookie QB could handle? - Can Gabbert ever recover from the regression he has taken or did the Jags permanently David Carr him? - If not, do they go into 2012 with a better Plan B at QB? - What kind of coach will be brought in next? Because of the small-market budget and the existing GM, a big-name coach is highly unlikely. Do they look for a lesser college HC? A young up-and-coming offensive coordinator? With the defensive gains made this year, does Mel Tucker get a crack at keeping the HC job assuming he can bring in a new OC? - Aside from the huge gaping void at WR, what do they do to address their other problems (OL, DE, CB for example)? - Speaking of WR, does anybody not named Mike Thomas (and hisguaranteed money) have any prayer of being on the team next year?

Edited by JaxBill

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The big worry for me is that the change in ownership probably won't change the philosophy. Its like another rich guy who wants to play fantasy football, but is probably just too cash poor to really make a difference. More than likely they will go the Bills route and try to get things done on the cheap with regards to coaching staff. Plus they will leave Smith just as handcuffed in free agency as the last regime.

The offense is going nowhere. Gabbert was a desperation pick. Had they waited a year they would have ended up with QB options to play with in the first round. Blaine reminds me of a less talented and more scared Jim Everett. His skill set is geared for combine workouts not actual football. I like some of the moves they've made defensively but the Jags have historically been a solid defensive team built around the run. They just don't overwhlem on defense and continue to search for a decent pass rush (still hurt feelings about passing on Suggs for Leftwich years ago). They need to have the kind of draft they've never had on defense. They need to hit on all marks. The funny thing is if they actually get serious in free agency on offense and they could still take advantage of a generally weak division next year.

Edited by DaveGrumbles

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I hope this isn't a hijacking but I wanted to ask you Jags fans your thoughts on MJD. Does he still have a lot of tread left on the tires or do you see serious regression occuring in the next year or two? He's 27 but he's pretty much borderline on being old for a RB. Planning on keeping him this year but should I be shopping for my next stud RB? Thanks.

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The big mistake was extending the GM. While he did have a nice pick in Alula, the Gabbert pick could potentially set them back 3 years. Gabbert doesn't look like an NFL quality QB, not even a backup desperation type guy. The GM should have been fired with JDR for that mistake. They have problems with all their offensive skill positions save MJD. This team needs an infusion of talent in the worst way, and unfortunately don't have the right man to make the right changes.

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I hope this isn't a hijacking but I wanted to ask you Jags fans your thoughts on MJD. Does he still have a lot of tread left on the tires or do you see serious regression occuring in the next year or two? He's 27 but he's pretty much borderline on being old for a RB. Planning on keeping him this year but should I be shopping for my next stud RB? Thanks.

I'd like to say 'yes' but not only does he have a bunch of carries on his odometer already, but most of them were with 8+ in the box. I think he has 2, maybe 3 at the most, really good years left.

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I hope this isn't a hijacking but I wanted to ask you Jags fans your thoughts on MJD. Does he still have a lot of tread left on the tires or do you see serious regression occuring in the next year or two? He's 27 but he's pretty much borderline on being old for a RB. Planning on keeping him this year but should I be shopping for my next stud RB? Thanks.

I'd like to say 'yes' but not only does he have a bunch of carries on his odometer already, but most of them were with 8+ in the box. I think he has 2, maybe 3 at the most, really good years left.
He has taken a beating over the past couple years but I like to think the years when they still had Fred Taylor when MJD was a rookie and a change of pace back might help extend his prime back years but it's always hard to tell. I hope Gabbert does progress and maybe chuck it to MJD a little more like Garrard used to (playing him in a PPR league). Hope you boys down in Jacksonville circle the wagons! Always liked the Jags since the Mark Brunell/Fred Taylor days.

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The big worry for me is that the change in ownership probably won't change the philosophy. Its like another rich guy who wants to play fantasy football, but is probably just too cash poor to really make a difference. More than likely they will go the Bills route and try to get things done on the cheap with regards to coaching staff. Plus they will leave Smith just as handcuffed in free agency as the last regime.

Not sure. Andrew Brandt from NFP was on with Ross Tucker this morning and pointing out how the Jags canning Garrard before the season was done to get the books in order to sell. I think he's at least partly right. It remains to be seen what Khan does with the budget. Not expecting wildly extravagant spending, but did Weaver set strict player salary limits to get the books in order for sale? Did Gene Smith shoot that wad fixing the defense and not have anything left over for even a decent WR2?

The other thing to remember is that Weaver was just the head of a group. I believe he owned less than 50%. Khan is his own guy and could potentially be looking to make a statement.

Again, not expecting Jerry Jones / Dan Snyder spending but we might see some increased spending.

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To me, Gabbert has been the most disheartening part of the year. Poor kid got thrown into a bad situation with no WR help, a TE who develops dropsy after he gets paid, and a banged-up OL leaking like a sieve.

This past week against Houston, I was glad that JDR took him out of the game just so McNown could take the beating for a change. Last week was the most scared and shellshocked I have seen him all year. I don't know what can be done to remedy it. They can't go to a quick passing game because the receivers don't get separation off the line.

Going into the year, I knew it was rebuilding time and favored letting the kid play but he has really regressed and that is the most depressing part by far.

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To me, Gabbert has been the most disheartening part of the year. Poor kid got thrown into a bad situation with no WR help, a TE who develops dropsy after he gets paid, and a banged-up OL leaking like a sieve.This past week against Houston, I was glad that JDR took him out of the game just so McNown could take the beating for a change. Last week was the most scared and shellshocked I have seen him all year. I don't know what can be done to remedy it. They can't go to a quick passing game because the receivers don't get separation off the line.Going into the year, I knew it was rebuilding time and favored letting the kid play but he has really regressed and that is the most depressing part by far.

Again, watching Gabbert in practice had me fired up. Watching him in a game is a completely different animal. O-line and receivers aside, he really has some clear weaknesses. The phantom footsteps he hears, the tendency to drop his head on every movement, and his accuracy is all over the place. He can sidestep the rush and throw a beautiful 15 yard out and the next play shoot a bullet 10 feet over the head of a wide open receiver. The fact that McCown came in and looked significantly better scares me. McCown shouldn't look significantly better than any QB in the league. Gabbert might look completely different with time on the bench but the Jags just aren't a team that can sit top picks on the bench while they learn the game.

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- Speaking of WR, does anybody not named Mike Thomas (and hisguaranteed money) have any prayer of being on the team next year?

Shorts will be there because Gene isn't giving up on a guy he just drafted. West will be given a chance to earn a spot in camp. Not sure about Dillard or MSW's contracts, but they'll be there if they have years left. Hill should be gone.

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Good luck Jags fans with the new ownership! Hope it turns out well.

Question - do you think they could possibly turn around and make a run at Tebow given Elway's lack of committment/enthusiasm for him? Would you want them to overpay to do so?

-QG

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Good luck Jags fans with the new ownership! Hope it turns out well.Question - do you think they could possibly turn around and make a run at Tebow given Elway's lack of committment/enthusiasm for him? Would you want them to overpay to do so? -QG

I think the national perception that Jaguar fans want Tebow is extremely exaggerated. I like Tim and wish him well, I would love for him to be a member of the Jaguars, but I have no interest in him as a starting QB long term. Just because Tim is popular locally doesn't mean fans don't see the same positives and negatives in his game that everyone else sees.

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taniaganguli Tania GanguliThe #Jaguars waived Jason Hill and put Courtney Greene on injured reserve.taniaganguli Tania Ganguli#Jaguars WR coach Johnny Cox has been fired. QB coach Mike Sheppard will move to WR coach now and OC Dirk Koetter will coach the quarterbacks.

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taniaganguli Tania GanguliThe #Jaguars waived Jason Hill and put Courtney Greene on injured reserve.taniaganguli Tania Ganguli#Jaguars WR coach Johnny Cox has been fired. QB coach Mike Sheppard will move to WR coach now and OC Dirk Koetter will coach the quarterbacks.

I guess we are seeing the people Jack protected addressed?

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To me, Gabbert has been the most disheartening part of the year. Poor kid got thrown into a bad situation with no WR help, a TE who develops dropsy after he gets paid, and a banged-up OL leaking like a sieve.

Me, too. When the Jags drafted a QB, it gave me some hope for the future of this team. That's been whittled away quite a bit as the season has trudged along.

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Good luck Jags fans with the new ownership! Hope it turns out well.Question - do you think they could possibly turn around and make a run at Tebow given Elway's lack of committment/enthusiasm for him? Would you want them to overpay to do so? -QG

I don't want that, at all.

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Any chance they cut their losses with Gabbert and draft Barkley or Jones? Doesn't seem likely due to how much they've got invested in him, but they're almost certainly going to have a shot at one or both of those guys.

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As someone who lived through the train wreck that was the Charlie Casserly-Dom Capers front office in Houston, I hope as NFL fans that things turn around for you.

Though as a fan of a team in the same division... well, I'll leave it at the good wishes. ;)

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Any chance they cut their losses with Gabbert and draft Barkley or Jones? Doesn't seem likely due to how much they've got invested in him, but they're almost certainly going to have a shot at one or both of those guys.

Doubtful they totally abandon him after one year since Gene Smith is still at the helm. But it wouldn't surprise me if the new coach / OC brings in a low-priced veteran who knows his system as a fallback in case of continued offensive implosion. Plus they have so many other holes, that I couldn't see them using high firsts 2 years in a row on QB.

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i am exccited to see that the nfls most exciting franchise is about to get even more interestnig as we see what directino it moves in now take it to the bank

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I hope this isn't a hijacking but I wanted to ask you Jags fans your thoughts on MJD. Does he still have a lot of tread left on the tires or do you see serious regression occuring in the next year or two? He's 27 but he's pretty much borderline on being old for a RB. Planning on keeping him this year but should I be shopping for my next stud RB? Thanks.

I don't know how long he'll last. He has taken a ton of hits. What he's been able to do this year is amazing. There is no passing game to speak of and he is still among the league leaders in rushing. Pretty impressive.

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Gabbert on Sound-FXAll downhill after marcedes drop .... or did he start staring at rush after getting hit?He took some shots Sundayhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8249df34/Sound-FX-Blaine-Gabbert

Gabbert's biggest problem is pretty obvious. He does not respond well to pressure(real or perceived), takes his eyes off his receivers and moves poorly to avoid pressure.That said he is a rookie with almost no off season prep, he is very limited in his receiving options and Marcedes Lewis who should have been one of his best options has dropped as many balls as he has caught. The coaching he has received has been questionable at best and the Jaguars offensive approach more favors a game manager type QB which is not Blaine's strength. I am not ready to bail on the kid yet. He has an amazing arm, is smart, hard working and even with these struggles is respected and well liked by his teammates. With more reps, better targets, better coaching and a game plan more suited to what he does well I still think Blaine can be the guy.

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Gabbert on Sound-FXAll downhill after marcedes drop .... or did he start staring at rush after getting hit?He took some shots Sundayhttp://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d8249df34/Sound-FX-Blaine-Gabbert

Gabbert's biggest problem is pretty obvious. He does not respond well to pressure(real or perceived), takes his eyes off his receivers and moves poorly to avoid pressure.That said he is a rookie with almost no off season prep, he is very limited in his receiving options and Marcedes Lewis who should have been one of his best options has dropped as many balls as he has caught. The coaching he has received has been questionable at best and the Jaguars offensive approach more favors a game manager type QB which is not Blaine's strength. I am not ready to bail on the kid yet. He has an amazing arm, is smart, hard working and even with these struggles is respected and well liked by his teammates. With more reps, better targets, better coaching and a game plan more suited to what he does well I still think Blaine can be the guy.
Exactly. As tempting as this years QB class may be, it's too soon to go back to the QB well just yet. They need to see if they can get a QB coach in there who can translate Gabberts practice skills to the field. I would rather they go after a Matt Kalil, or something along those lines, depending on where they're gonna be picking.

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First of all, they need to sign some receivers, give Gabbert another year to develop, and improve their offensive line. They have the worst receiving core. Can't blame the kid for losing his confidence.

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The big mistake was extending the GM. While he did have a nice pick in Alula, the Gabbert pick could potentially set them back 3 years. Gabbert doesn't look like an NFL quality QB, not even a backup desperation type guy. The GM should have been fired with JDR for that mistake. They have problems with all their offensive skill positions save MJD. This team needs an infusion of talent in the worst way, and unfortunately don't have the right man to make the right changes.

I totally agree. I posted the Jags draft history in one of the other threads and it's pretty pathetic. Gene Smith knows not what he does. He certainly should be gone with JDR.

To me, Gabbert has been the most disheartening part of the year. Poor kid got thrown into a bad situation with no WR help, a TE who develops dropsy after he gets paid, and a banged-up OL leaking like a sieve.This past week against Houston, I was glad that JDR took him out of the game just so McNown could take the beating for a change. Last week was the most scared and shellshocked I have seen him all year. I don't know what can be done to remedy it. They can't go to a quick passing game because the receivers don't get separation off the line.Going into the year, I knew it was rebuilding time and favored letting the kid play but he has really regressed and that is the most depressing part by far.

Again, watching Gabbert in practice had me fired up. Watching him in a game is a completely different animal. O-line and receivers aside, he really has some clear weaknesses. The phantom footsteps he hears, the tendency to drop his head on every movement, and his accuracy is all over the place. He can sidestep the rush and throw a beautiful 15 yard out and the next play shoot a bullet 10 feet over the head of a wide open receiver. The fact that McCown came in and looked significantly better scares me. McCown shouldn't look significantly better than any QB in the league. Gabbert might look completely different with time on the bench but the Jags just aren't a team that can sit top picks on the bench while they learn the game.
I'm not willing to give Gabbert that much of a leash. Look at the other rookie QB's in the league and how they are excelling. They all went to bad teams and are being huge successes. Obviously Cam and Andy are doing great, but Ponder is even showing that he belongs as well. I was optimistic somewhat after the 2010 draft when they took two offensive tackles with their top few picks. That's what I like to see. But I'm not sure what the deal is...are those guys hurt or just not performing? Or is Gabbert simply making everyone look bad due to holding the ball too long and having zero pocket presence?I watched that sound FX video and obviously did not like what I saw or heard. He has no fire, no pocket awareness, no accuracy, and no leadership qualities. Sure, he was talking to the team trying to take on a leadership role, but it's like he didn't even believe in himself. Seriously, would what he said have motivated you to step up your game? But hey, he tried I guess.Living in Missouri, and having inlaws and a wife that are huge MU fans, I got to see him play a lot! I was never impressed by anything I saw from him. Running a spread offense with plenty of talent around him, he was unable to put up good numbers or win a single meaningful game. Then the combine comes around and apparently he looks good in shorts and a helmet. I was so pissed when Jacksonville traded up to get him. I would have much rather had Locker (Locker atleast has Fire and leadership qualities) Ponder, or Dalton. And hell, at this point, I'd rather have Tebow. There is no denying his leadership and passion and apparently, his ability to win.I hope the Jags are able to be competitive next year, but I don't expect them to win many games yet again. Hopefully Gabbert takes a step forward in his development, but I don't expect it. I hope that Gene Smith takes a step back and listens to his scouts and finds some gems in the 2012 draft, but they certainly need to nail the 2012 draft.

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Are Jax people going to support them when they become the L.A. Blow?

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I was optimistic somewhat after the 2010 draft when they took two offensive tackles with their top few picks. That's what I like to see. But I'm not sure what the deal is...are those guys hurt or just not performing? Or is Gabbert simply making everyone look bad due to holding the ball too long and having zero pocket presence?

The offensive line has been injured and not good. Eugene Monroe has looked good this season but was dinged earlier in the year. Eben Britton had an offseason back injury and struggled so much they moved him from T to G this year before they put him on IR. The third tackle Kevin Haslam is also on IR. They've had to resort to starting Giants castoff Guy Whimper at RT and he's been a sieve. Rookie Will rackley has looked overmatched at G. About the only OL to have a really good season has been Uche Nwaneri and I've been surprised at how well that C Brad Meester has held up for being older and undersized.

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Are Jax people going to support them when they become the L.A. Blow?

So should I start Antonio Brown or Vincent Jackson this week?

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I like Gruden as a Del Rio replacement. Thoughts?

I also like the idea of sourcing a quality veteran WR and drafting oline.

I also like the idea of firing the GM, but it doesnt look like that will be happening anytime soon.

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I like Gruden as a Del Rio replacement. Thoughts?I also like the idea of sourcing a quality veteran WR and drafting oline.I also like the idea of firing the GM, but it doesnt look like that will be happening anytime soon.

Jay Gruden, possibly. Most offensive coaches would be welcome(not thrilled about the Brian Schottenheimer being brught up)Jon Gruden would cost too much.

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The big mistake was extending the GM. While he did have a nice pick in Alula, the Gabbert pick could potentially set them back 3 years. Gabbert doesn't look like an NFL quality QB, not even a backup desperation type guy. The GM should have been fired with JDR for that mistake. They have problems with all their offensive skill positions save MJD. This team needs an infusion of talent in the worst way, and unfortunately don't have the right man to make the right changes.

My thing with the Gabbert situation is, in "normal years" he would be a weaker QB prospect...not God awful. If you told me a rookie QB would be starting back in August, without mini-camps and an accelerated training camp, (and not even given first team reps during that time), I would say you would get the product you are seeing there today. The fact that Dalton and Newton are playing at a Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning pace respectively their first years, is just crazy considering the prep each had. I really think they are making Gabbert look worse than he is; not that he has done much to to show he has "it" (and he could certainly be another Clausen), but I think judging him on 2011 would be unfair.

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Are Jax people going to support them when they become the L.A. Blow?

So should I start Antonio Brown or Vincent Jackson this week?
Ya can't force it

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The big worry for me is that the change in ownership probably won't change the philosophy. Its like another rich guy who wants to play fantasy football, but is probably just too cash poor to really make a difference. More than likely they will go the Bills route and try to get things done on the cheap with regards to coaching staff. Plus they will leave Smith just as handcuffed in free agency as the last regime.

The offense is going nowhere. Gabbert was a desperation pick. Had they waited a year they would have ended up with QB options to play with in the first round. Blaine reminds me of a less talented and more scared Jim Everett. His skill set is geared for combine workouts not actual football. I like some of the moves they've made defensively but the Jags have historically been a solid defensive team built around the run. They just don't overwhlem on defense and continue to search for a decent pass rush (still hurt feelings about passing on Suggs for Leftwich years ago). They need to have the kind of draft they've never had on defense. They need to hit on all marks. The funny thing is if they actually get serious in free agency on offense and they could still take advantage of a generally weak division next year.

Haven't read past here, but isn't the new CBA set up in such a way that it's no longer possible for a team to be cheap on players? IE: The salary FLOOR is significantly higher than before.

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The big mistake was extending the GM. While he did have a nice pick in Alula, the Gabbert pick could potentially set them back 3 years. Gabbert doesn't look like an NFL quality QB, not even a backup desperation type guy. The GM should have been fired with JDR for that mistake. They have problems with all their offensive skill positions save MJD. This team needs an infusion of talent in the worst way, and unfortunately don't have the right man to make the right changes.

My thing with the Gabbert situation is, in "normal years" he would be a weaker QB prospect...not God awful. If you told me a rookie QB would be starting back in August, without mini-camps and an accelerated training camp, (and not even given first team reps during that time), I would say you would get the product you are seeing there today. The fact that Dalton and Newton are playing at a Matt Ryan and Peyton Manning pace respectively their first years, is just crazy considering the prep each had. I really think they are making Gabbert look worse than he is; not that he has done much to to show he has "it" (and he could certainly be another Clausen), but I think judging him on 2011 would be unfair.
:goodposting: I've never been high on Gabbert, and still aren't, but the kid had no chance this year. If you believed in him in June/July, there's no reason to give up on him now.

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The big worry for me is that the change in ownership probably won't change the philosophy. Its like another rich guy who wants to play fantasy football, but is probably just too cash poor to really make a difference. More than likely they will go the Bills route and try to get things done on the cheap with regards to coaching staff. Plus they will leave Smith just as handcuffed in free agency as the last regime.

The offense is going nowhere. Gabbert was a desperation pick. Had they waited a year they would have ended up with QB options to play with in the first round. Blaine reminds me of a less talented and more scared Jim Everett. His skill set is geared for combine workouts not actual football. I like some of the moves they've made defensively but the Jags have historically been a solid defensive team built around the run. They just don't overwhlem on defense and continue to search for a decent pass rush (still hurt feelings about passing on Suggs for Leftwich years ago). They need to have the kind of draft they've never had on defense. They need to hit on all marks. The funny thing is if they actually get serious in free agency on offense and they could still take advantage of a generally weak division next year.

Haven't read past here, but isn't the new CBA set up in such a way that it's no longer possible for a team to be cheap on players? IE: The salary FLOOR is significantly higher than before.
Starting in 2013, each individual team has to spend to 89% of the cap.

Last figure I saw (after the Garrard release) the Jags were 35 Mil under or approx 85 Mil. If the 89 % rule was in effect this year, they would have had to spend 106 Mil. But in fairness, there were other teams that weer also well under (Cincy & TB come to mind). Also, I think they probably would have negotiated Poz's contract differently (hmmm, wonder how much of his 15 Mil in guaranteed money is due in 2013?)

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I like Gruden as a Del Rio replacement. Thoughts?I also like the idea of sourcing a quality veteran WR and drafting oline.I also like the idea of firing the GM, but it doesnt look like that will be happening anytime soon.

Jay Gruden, possibly. Most offensive coaches would be welcome(not thrilled about the Brian Schottenheimer being brught up)Jon Gruden would cost too much.
:angry: Don't be stealing our OC Grr. Signed Bengals fans.-QG Edited by QuizGuy66

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The big worry for me is that the change in ownership probably won't change the philosophy. Its like another rich guy who wants to play fantasy football, but is probably just too cash poor to really make a difference. More than likely they will go the Bills route and try to get things done on the cheap with regards to coaching staff. Plus they will leave Smith just as handcuffed in free agency as the last regime.

The offense is going nowhere. Gabbert was a desperation pick. Had they waited a year they would have ended up with QB options to play with in the first round. Blaine reminds me of a less talented and more scared Jim Everett. His skill set is geared for combine workouts not actual football. I like some of the moves they've made defensively but the Jags have historically been a solid defensive team built around the run. They just don't overwhlem on defense and continue to search for a decent pass rush (still hurt feelings about passing on Suggs for Leftwich years ago). They need to have the kind of draft they've never had on defense. They need to hit on all marks. The funny thing is if they actually get serious in free agency on offense and they could still take advantage of a generally weak division next year.

Haven't read past here, but isn't the new CBA set up in such a way that it's no longer possible for a team to be cheap on players? IE: The salary FLOOR is significantly higher than before.
Starting in 2013, each individual team has to spend to 89% of the cap.

Last figure I saw (after the Garrard release) the Jags were 35 Mil under or approx 85 Mil. If the 89 % rule was in effect this year, they would have had to spend 106 Mil. But in fairness, there were other teams that weer also well under (Cincy & TB come to mind). Also, I think they probably would have negotiated Poz's contract differently (hmmm, wonder how much of his 15 Mil in guaranteed money is due in 2013?)

I think that number is less due to Mike Thomas' extension.

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I like Gruden as a Del Rio replacement. Thoughts?I also like the idea of sourcing a quality veteran WR and drafting oline.I also like the idea of firing the GM, but it doesnt look like that will be happening anytime soon.

Jay Gruden, possibly. Most offensive coaches would be welcome(not thrilled about the Brian Schottenheimer being brught up)Jon Gruden would cost too much.
:angry: Don't be stealing our OC Grr. Signed Bengals fans.-QG
OK, your DC then?

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I like Gruden as a Del Rio replacement. Thoughts?I also like the idea of sourcing a quality veteran WR and drafting oline.I also like the idea of firing the GM, but it doesnt look like that will be happening anytime soon.

Jay Gruden, possibly. Most offensive coaches would be welcome(not thrilled about the Brian Schottenheimer being brught up)Jon Gruden would cost too much.
:angry: Don't be stealing our OC Grr. Signed Bengals fans.-QG
OK, your DC then?
:no::angry:-QG

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