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Raiderfan32904

***Oakland Raiders 2012 Regular Season Thread***

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Let's get it started. :mellow:

:cry: I was hoping to hold off for a round of playoffs or two before we started the offseason thread.

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This is the right idea. Pull the band-aid off and focus on the issues.

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Focus on the positive; missing the playoffs reduced the cost of Carson Palmer!

With the Palmer deal in place, not much in the way of draft picks, you have to try to make a deep playoff run in 2012 with Palmer at QB. They probably can't get real value for any of the other QBs on the roster, so they keep Campbell as a backup or release him for salary savings. WR corps is looking better. RB is solid if McFadden can come back healthy. Probably look at one or two big-ticket FA acquisitions on defense and in the OL.

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Just think about how different things could have been if DMC could have stayed healthy. He was an absolute beast the first part of the season.

I can't decide how I feel about Palmer. I was a big supporter when we signed him but having seen him play a few games now, I'm not so sure. He makes a lot of bad decisions and throws way more "bad" balls into coverage than I would like.

And what happened to our defense yesterday? It was painful to watch our inability to stop either the run or the pass. Painful.

Finally, I want to hang myself over all the stupid penalties. Why is it so hard to reign the penalties in? This has to be the number one priority in the offseason, IMO.

All in all, I think the original post hit the nail on the head. 8-8 and missing the playoffs like we just did is like kissing your sister :bag:

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Something must be done about penalties. Even a 10% reduction might have seen them get into the playoffs. You simply can't kill your drives and sustain the opponents drives with such regularity and expect to win.

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1. Fire Bresnahan. Bring in a young, innovative DC that wants to be a HC down the road. It should be an attractive job for a DC. Lots of talent, that has been wasted in a boring, rudimentary defense. Let Hue handpick a DC, then leave him alone. Man, zone, cover-2, zone blitz, 3-4, be nice to mix it up. BAL Ravens are the model here.

2. Let the team know that they will be in better shape next year. Injuries and penalties can both potentially be a result of fatigue. Word has been for a long time that you can wear the Raiders down, as they tend to lack stamina. This team is plenty young, no reason not to have a rough camp next July. Get everyone healthy, and get them IN SHAPE. Man, we just had a million injuries that dragged out. DMC, yeah. But that was just tip of the iceberg. Huff? Starting FS. We missed him, a lot. We saw way too much of Giordano this year. Ford? Second best WR. Missed over half the season, no? Lou Murphy? All of training camp. Starting CB Chris Johnson. Starting FB Marcel Reece. Best WR Denarius Moore. Our Starting TE. Our starting RE, Shaugnessy.

3. Competition at RG and RT. Can Barksdale beat out Barnes? And Bruce Cambell especially. Two years to mature, not either make a move, or beat it.

4. Competition at CB. C. Johnson is older, and probably done. Sheppard is no long term answer. Bring in a vet, and let Chekwa and DVD play nickel and dime.

5. Another TE. I like Boss, but couldn't care less about his backups. And I like Boss, I don't love him. Maybe Seattle will trade Miller back to us, they aren't using him.

6. Give M. Bush a nice offer. He won't take it, if he can get a lead dog role somewhere, but try and keep him. There's no need to pay him starter money. You cannot afford to, as there are a million backs out there. I doubt that he returns, but it's possible.

7. Figure out how to close teams out. We had more than one team on the ropes, and couldn't close the door. BUFF the big one. DET another.

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1. Fire Bresnahan. Bring in a young, innovative DC that wants to be a HC down the road. It should be an attractive job for a DC. Lots of talent, that has been wasted in a boring, rudimentary defense. Let Hue handpick a DC, then leave him alone. Man, zone, cover-2, zone blitz, 3-4, be nice to mix it up. BAL Ravens are the model here.

2. Let the team know that they will be in better shape next year. Injuries and penalties can both potentially be a result of fatigue. Word has been for a long time that you can wear the Raiders down, as they tend to lack stamina. This team is plenty young, no reason not to have a rough camp next July. Get everyone healthy, and get them IN SHAPE. Man, we just had a million injuries that dragged out. DMC, yeah. But that was just tip of the iceberg. Huff? Starting FS. We missed him, a lot. We saw way too much of Giordano this year. Ford? Second best WR. Missed over half the season, no? Lou Murphy? All of training camp. Starting CB Chris Johnson. Starting FB Marcel Reece. Best WR Denarius Moore. Our Starting TE. Our starting RE, Shaugnessy.

3. Competition at RG and RT. Can Barksdale beat out Barnes? And Bruce Cambell especially. Two years to mature, not either make a move, or beat it.

4. Competition at CB. C. Johnson is older, and probably done. Sheppard is no long term answer. Bring in a vet, and let Chekwa and DVD play nickel and dime.

5. Another TE. I like Boss, but couldn't care less about his backups. And I like Boss, I don't love him. Maybe Seattle will trade Miller back to us, they aren't using him.

6. Give M. Bush a nice offer. He won't take it, if he can get a lead dog role somewhere, but try and keep him. There's no need to pay him starter money. You cannot afford to, as there are a million backs out there. I doubt that he returns, but it's possible.

7. Figure out how to close teams out. We had more than one team on the ropes, and couldn't close the door. BUFF the big one. DET another.

Fantastic post.

I think #7 is the key, along with the second sentence of #2. The difference between staying disciplined and focused -- for all four quarters of the game -- is the difference between a middling 8-8 and a division-winning or wildcard berth 11-5 season.

Being healthy is obviously key, and we had our share of misfortune. But teams like Houston and the Giants were also arguable hit as hard or more, and found a way to leverage their strengths and depth to keep winning games and get in the playoffs.

After last season, 8-8 is actually a good sign of things to come, but to truly take our place at the playoff table, we need to stay focused and committed to excellence in every game, and find every way we can to become a team that maintains its lead.

A new DC and looking forward at emerging players instead of aging or mediocre position performers are great ways of maintaining momentum and build on top of a decent but ultimately unfulfilling 2011 season.

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Focus on the positive; missing the playoffs reduced the cost of Carson Palmer!With the Palmer deal in place, not much in the way of draft picks, you have to try to make a deep playoff run in 2012 with Palmer at QB. They probably can't get real value for any of the other QBs on the roster, so they keep Campbell as a backup or release him for salary savings. WR corps is looking better. RB is solid if McFadden can come back healthy. Probably look at one or two big-ticket FA acquisitions on defense and in the OL.

No it didnt. The only thing that would affect the 2013 pick in the Palmer deal is if Oakland goes to an AFC championship game before then... including next season's playoffs. Simply making or missing the playoffs has no affect. Its still a 1st in 2012 and conditional 2nd in 2013.

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http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2012/01/01/odds-and-ends-from-sundays-game/

Odds and ends from Sunday’s game

By Steve Corkran

Sunday, January 1st, 2012 at 8:29 pm in Oakland Raiders.

The Raiders blew away the all-time records for penalties and penalty yards on the strength of eight for 64 yards Sunday in a 38-26 loss to the San Diego Chargers.

The Raiders finished with 163 penalties for 1,358 yards, eclispsing the 158 for 1,304 posted by the 1998 Kansas City Chiefs.

2012 SCHEDULE

The Raiders finished tied with the Chargers and Denver Broncos at 8-8 in the AFC West. However, for scheduling purposes they are considered the third-place team by virtue of tiebreakers.

Therefore, the Raiders play the third-place teams in the AFC South and the AFC East, with the Jacksonville Jaguars coming to Oakland and the Raiders playing the Miami Dolphins on the road.

The Raiders also play the four AFC North teams and the four NFC South teams as part of the regular rotation. Their six other games are against the three AFC West foes.

WHAT’S IN A NUMBER?

The Raiders posted an undefeated mark in divisional games away from the Coliseum for the second straight season. On the downside, the Raiders lost all three of their games against AFC West teams at home this season.

BUSH, HEYWARD-BEY NOT SO GRAND

Running back Michael Bush and wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey came up just shy of notching 1,000 yards for the first time in their respective NFL careers.

Bush rushed for 66 yards Sunday and finished the season with 977. Not bad for a player who started the season as a seldom-used backup to Darren McFadden.

Heyward-Bey caught nine of the 17 passes thrown his way Sunday for 130 yards. He finished the season with 64 receptions for 975 yards and four touchdowns in his breakout season.

The Raiders still haven’t had a 1,000-yard receiver since 2005, when Randy Moss tallied 1,005.

GIORDANO PICKS OFF TITLE

Safety Matt Giordano’s first-quarter interception marked his fifth of the season. It snapped a tie he held with cornerback Stanford Routt and held up as the team-high for 2011.

The Raiders won all four games in which Giordano had an interception before Sunday’s break from routine.

SACKLESS DAY

Philip Rivers attempted 26 passes Sunday without being sacked. Heck, he didn’t get hit much, either.

The sackless effort means that defensive tackle Tommy Kelly gets the sack title for the Raiders this season. He finished with 7 1/2.

PALMER’S MIXED BAG

Carson Palmer passed for 417 yards and two touchdowns Sunday. He also was intercepted once. Overall, he finished with 13 touchdown passes and 16 interceptions this season.

The 417 yards is the third most in Raiders history. Jeff Hostetler passed for 424 on Oct. 31, 1993 and Cotton Davidson had 419 on Oct. 25, 1964.

EXTRA POINTS

*The Raiders allowed 153 yards rushing Sunday. For the season, they allowed an average of 136.1 yards per game.

*Rookie wide receiver Denarius Moore’s 78-yard reception in the third quarter resulted in the longest reception of any Raiders player this season. His 61-yarder against the Chiefs last Sunday had been the standard bearer.

*Tight end Kevin Boss suffered a concussion at the end of his 22-yard touchdown reception in the fourth quarter.

*Shane Lechler’s 58-yard punt was the only punt of the game.

Follow me on Twitter: @corkonthenfl

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PFT's take on Hue Jackson's post-game presser:

Hue Jackson is “pissed” at team, wants more powerPosted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 2, 2012, 10:44 AM ESTOakland Raiders v Green Bay Packers Getty ImagesRaiders coach Hue Jackson didn’t take Oakland’s latest defensive collapse well.While he occasionally made a weak effort to take responsibility for his team’s loss, Jackson generally threw his team under the bus in a manner you don’t normally see from head coaches.“I’m pissed at my team,” Jackson said after the game via the Oakland Tribune. “At some point in time, as a group of men, you go in the game, and you can say whatever you want about coaches, you win the game. Here’s your time. Here’s your time to make plays.“We didn’t get ‘em stopped. And we didn’t make enough plays. So, yeah, I’m pissed at the team. I’m also, like I tell them, I’ll always put it on me, but I am pissed at my team. Because when you have those kinds of opportunities, you’ve got to do it, and we didn’t do it.”Translation: I’ll always put it on me, except when I totally put it on you guys.Jackson seems especially upset with his defense. (For good reason.) We wouldn’t expect to see defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan back next year.“Chuck knows how I feel,” Jackson said. “I’m disappointed over there. I have been. It’s not like we haven’t had conversations. Chuck knows what I feel, and it’s not good enough. . . . When you play defense in the NFL, man, you got to hunt. You can’t give up 28, 29 points and expect to win.”Translation: That’s Bresnahan’s defense. Got it?Jackson’s solution for all the problems: More Hue Jackson.“I’m going take a stronger hand in this whole team, this whole organization,” Jackson said. “There ain’t no way that I’m going to feel like I feel today a year from now, I promise you that. There’s no question. Defensively, offensively and special teams. I aint feeling like this no more. This is a joke. . . . Yeah, I’m going to take a hand in everything that goes on here.”Translation: I haven’t fully considered all the implications of what could happen when the Raiders hire a personnel man to be my boss.

I completely disagree with PFT's poorly-written hatchet job of Hue. The Raiders always been a players-first organization. To a fault. And Hue is right. Hey, Hue Jackson and Bres didn't tell the D-line to never get any pressure yesterday. They didn't tell every single blitzer to run into the backfield, looking for a blocker to stick to. They didn't tell Seymour to jump offside, or Khalif Barnes to get caught holding. The HC takes responsibility for every action? Look, the buck stops there, for sure. But there are problems with the players that were out there yesterday. Mostly the defense. And a lot of it was Bresnahan's fault. But a lot of it were players that were standing around, waiting for someone else to make a play. I have zero problem with Hue calling out the players. Funny part is, from the article that that donkey ###-clown Rosenthal quoted, Michael Huff agrees with Hue:

Free safety Michael Huff said he appreciates Jackson’s dour mood. However, the blame falls upon the players and not Jackson or defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan.“We should all be pissed,” Huff said. “To be this close and to blow it, it’s nothing the coaches did. The players didn’t play (well). I know some people are going to try to blame Chuck, some people are going to try to blame Hue but, at the end of the day, we’re the ones on the field.“Regardless of the defense that’s called, we got to line up and play and execute. I don’t want anybody going out there and trying to blame the coaches because it’s on us.”

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This is the first time Palmer helped get the Bengals to the playoffs in a long time.

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Hue needs to take a xanax before he talks to the press...or at least think before he speaks:

Q: Rolando McClain, talked about how he needed to be great, needed to be a leader, did he do that?

Jackson: “I’m not going to talk about individual players. I just think as a group, we didn’t play as well as we can play and I’m going to leave it at that.”

A little while later...

Do you feel good about moving forward with Carson Palmer?

“I think, obviously, he has some strong characteristics throwing the ball. I mean, he’s proven that. I think he’s disproved all the issues with his arm. I don’t think anybody can bring those subjects up anymore. I think that Carson needs a strong offseason, with his teammates, with the players, training camp. And then let’s see what he can be then. Am I tied to him? Well, I made the decision, so I guess I am. You know? He’s one of our quarterbacks. But by no means do I say, hey, Jason Campbell doesn’t haven’t an opportunity to be here, too. That decision has not been made. I have a strong feeling about Jason Campbell, and I think you guys all know that. I mean, my doing that, I know everybody sees it as maybe it was a slap to Jason. It wasn’t. I owe this team the best opportunity to win, and this organization the best opportunity to win. That’s why I did what I did. And at the end of the day, I’m not gonna run from that.”

Well, which is it, Hue?

See also:

Is McFadden’s injury worse than you thought?

“No. Is it worse? Yes." :yucky:

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I love that Hue's emotions show and he has a great attitude (near opposite to Kiffin's). He's obviously not a numbers geek, he doesnt even know how many scores his team is up by late in the game. We dont need a rocket scientist head coach. Hue has personality. I think his interviews are great.

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Just give me a modern defensive scheme and a functional (in the traditional sense) front office. I said a long time ago this team would go as far as the defense would take it and that was true. The base defense that Oakland has been trying to run for years is such a strategical mismatch against modern NFL passing attacks; I am not surprised by the volume of penalties. I disagree that players should be expected to perform/win with no regard to play calling. I think problems with scheme/play calling leads to frustration from the players. If you are doing everything you can do and are still getting beat because the front you are running is at a complete disadvantage against the offensive play, trying to go above and beyond effort-wise usually leads to penalties.

You can sum up this entire season/team by watching the Lions 4th quarter comeback against Oakland. Pick any 11 defenders you want in the NFL and they are not going to stop the Lions the way Oakland was lining up/covering them. There isn't a MLB in the history of the NFL that would have an advantage covering Calvin Johnson on a deep ball.

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I think considering the losses in the offseason plus the injuries....8-8 was a pretty good season. Offensively this team is in good shape. I hope they address every aspect of the defense in the offseason. Chuck needs to go....and then just focus free agency and draft on defensive playmakers period. Had they did everything to retain nnamdi I think they would be afc west champs right now.

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Fixing the defense

First thing is to bring in a new DC and probably a couple assistants. There was an obvious lack of discipline and fundamentals amoung the players. That burden starts with the coaching staff.

Second we need to sign Branch to a long term contract. I dont think he's a great player but he is one of our better defensive players and has definately outplayed his rookie contract.

Other than loseing Asomugha, this was basicly the same team as in 2010 when the defense was very respectable. Al Davis made a play for Cromartie (Joseph would have been even better) but Cromartie stayed with the Jets for less money. When we were left with Chris Johnson and 2 rookies at CB, I said one injury will really hurt and more injuries will end our season. We also lost our best DE and several other injuries including Seymour, McClain, Huff, and Henderson. The run D has been a problem for years but the previous couple of seasons we've had a good pass D. We dont need a complete overhaul.

It looks like Huff is going to make the switch to full time CB next year. I think he's a better CB than FS. The knock on him has always been that he's really just something in between the two. The other player out of position is Wimbley is more of a rush specialist DE than LB. If we can get a real FS and real strong side LB it will help the run D. Getting guys healthy and experience for Curry and McClain will also help.

While I'm not sold on Huff as a starter and I still think we need to aquire a top CB at some point, it might have to wait. The immediate hole after moving Huff is at safety. They might continue the experiment of switching Chekwa to safety this offseason. Chekwa's inability to stay healthy is a concern though regardless of his position. They could start Branch and Mitchell or they could bring in another starter. Giordano and Boyd are both FAs and neither is starter material. Giordano is ok as a backup but he was in the lineup way too often this year and it hurt the team. Boyd probably shouldnt be on the roster and Eugene is a special teams guy who might not recover well enough to make the team again. We need another safety.

Another concern is the health of Henderson. He has another year on his contract but he might be done. He's our best run stuffing DT. Without a high draft pick, its not easy to replace him. We havent seen much of Brodine but he's unlikely the long term answer. Like CB, we might have to wait until 2013 to get a chance at a good player.

In 2011, we used too many roster spots on offense. We had 4 QBs, 2 FBs (or 7 WRs), and 4 TEs with only 2 backup LBs and sometimes only 2 or 3 active CBs. Injuries played a huge part but I have to wonder if Hue being an offensive coach had too much of a role in that. We need more depth on defense.

Moss, Scott, Groves, Blackstock, Giordano, Sheppard, and Boyd (RFA) are all FAs. None are nearly the concern of loseing Branch. Still the lack of draft picks we have is a concern. On offense we also have Bush, Barnes, Heyer, Campbell/Boller, Schilens, and Houshmanzadah. Special teamers Cartwright and McCann (RFA) are FAs. I believe FBs Reece and Tonga are both RFAs. Most of our draft picks will likely be spent just replacing some of these depth players. That means we'll need to look at bringing in some good free agents. We need to look hard at FS, OLB, CB, and maybe DT.

To sum it up, new D coaches, adjust Huff and Wimbley, add a new starter quality safety, add a new starter quality linebacker, additional depth, and at least look at the top available CBs and DTs.

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Does anyone have an idea about how many draft picks the Raiders have this year? I have a strong hunch they will get a 3rd and 4th as compensation for NA and Miller.

Besides what has been stated about upgrading the defense, they need to continue to develop the OLine. They have to nice young players in Wis and Veldheer. The focus needs to be to protect the QB so he can get the ball to the WRs group.

And go after Spags as the DC!!!!

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Ha, we all kind of forgot one big offseason acquisition, didn't we?How about, for the first time in history, the Raiders are shopping for a general manager? Exciting times.Cork's article on the first name, Reggie McKenzie, is below. I remember Reggie as a young LB for the Raiders. His brother was a guard, IIRC:

Raiders interviewing GM candidate todayBy Steve CorkranWednesday, January 4th, 2012 at 11:21 am in Oakland Raiders.Raiders owner Mark Davis isn’t wasting any time in finding a general manager to fill the power vacuum created by the death of his father in early October.Davis reportedly intends to interview Green Bay Packers director of football operations Reggie McKenzie today, according to the Chicago Sun Times.McKenzie was hired by Ron Wolf in 1994 as a pro scout, and he has worked his way up over the past 18 years. Wolf once worked for the Raiders under Al Davis. He is advising Mark Davis on football matters in the interim, along with former Raiders coach John Madden and former Raiders personnel man Ken Herock.Late last year, Wolf issued a glowing recommendation of McKenzie as a general manager candidate.“Reggie’s a tremendous evaluator,” McKenzie told the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. “He can tell you who can play and who can’t play. That’s what it’s all about. Some can write reports but can’t tell you who can play. Whatever that is, he has that. He has a feel.”McKenzie, 48, played in the NFL for seven seasons, including four for the Los Angeles Raiders from 1985-88.League rules stipulate that McKenzie can be interviewed but not hired until the Packers are done playing this season. Therefore, Davis might have to wait until early February before hiring McKenzie, who is considered the front-runner.There also is speculation that McKenzie might bring along Eliot Wolf, Ron Wolf’s son, if he gets hired by the Raiders. The younger Wolf is an assistant director of player personnel for the Packers.Raiders coach Hue Jackson said in a radio interview Tuesday night that he is looking forward to working with a general manager who thinks along his lines.“I really want to work on conjunction with someone who shares the same vision,” Jackson said on NFL Sirius radio. “I know whoever Mark decides to bring in to the organization will have the same vision because my vision is winning, and winning championships.“I don’t have any other vision or any other ego. My whole thing is about winning and whatever it takes to win. Do I want to make sure I have an idea and have some input on who I put on a team? Yes. But at the end of the day, if the chain of command starts with the GM when it comes to those decisions, I’m fine with that, too.”A Raiders official told beat writer Jerry McDonald earlier this morning that he didn’t have any comment on the Sun Times report.Follow me on Twitter: @corkonthenfl

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I hope we get Mckenzie.

The Raiders only have a 5th and 6th round pick right now. They should get one 3rd round compensatory pick and one or two late picks but those wont be awarded until close to the draft.

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I hope we get Mckenzie.The Raiders only have a 5th and 6th round pick right now. They should get one 3rd round compensatory pick and one or two late picks but those wont be awarded until close to the draft.

I hope we get Mckenzie as well. He sounds like he would make a great GM. Maybe if we are lucky Mckenzie will bring Winston Moss with him also to be our Defensive Coordinator. :popcorn:

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The offense should improve by default with Palmer having a full training camp and all the young players adding to their experience.

The first concern on offense is replacing Bush if he isnt resigned. He likes being a Raider but money will likely dictate where he ends up. We have more pressing needs since young RBs are cheap and productive. Jones cant replace Bush by himself but he can be part of a backup committee. Cartwright is old but healthy. He deserves another one year deal to lead the special teams. I'd like to see Reece get a multi-year deal.

The O line needs to get better in pass protection. The left side is young and should improve with experience. Satele is under contract another year and seems likely to keep the starting center job through 2012. Carlisle is old but has been incredibly healthy. Barnes is a free agent and RT is the most likely position for someone else to step into a starting role. Heyer is also a FA and I dont think both should be retained if Barksdale or Campbell can take the starting RT spot. We can afford both veterans but why pay both if they are both backups? Better IMO to have a young interior lineman to groom because Carlisle is old and Satele might not be back in 2013. The problem there again though is the lack of draft picks.

Pryor may or may not be ready for the primary backup role next season. I expect we'll pair him with a veteran backup again which would give him another person to learn from.

I said I didnt like giving Boss so much guaranteed money and it seems we are stuck with him. Myers has improved as a reciever and is an even better blocker. I dont know if we'll keep 4 TEs again but Ausberry has played well on special teams while learning the ropes and Gordan has definate blocking skills. It could be several years before we have another Raider like star TE.

Schilens and Houshmanzadah are two more FAs but neither would hurt to lose. Even though Housh is entwined with Palmer he seems the least likely to be back. I think they like McGee who was on the practice squad and it would honor Al Davis to spend one of our late round draft picks on a receiver. Could still bring in a top free agent WR but its not as much of a need now as it was before. Always the risk of injuries with our track stars but we have 4 of them flashing plenty of potential.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.

I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.
UnknownCoach I don't think Counter Pass is saying we should go into training camp with just 4 wr's. What he is saying is that we have bigger needs then WR to spend what few draft picks we have on one. We can find decently priced veteran free agent WR's for training camp bodies. I disagree with you by the way, you can find real good players late in the draft if a team does it's homework. Denarius Moore for example. Granted it won't happen every year but its not impossible either.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.
UnknownCoach I don't think Counter Pass is saying we should go into training camp with just 4 wr's. What he is saying is that we have bigger needs then WR to spend what few draft picks we have on one. We can find decently priced veteran free agent WR's for training camp bodies. I disagree with you by the way, you can find real good players late in the draft if a team does it's homework. Denarius Moore for example. Granted it won't happen every year but its not impossible either.
Well, I most definately disagree. We have 2 FA WRs, one is old and the other is broken. The need to replace them is just as much if not more than most of our other FAs.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.
UnknownCoach I don't think Counter Pass is saying we should go into training camp with just 4 wr's. What he is saying is that we have bigger needs then WR to spend what few draft picks we have on one. We can find decently priced veteran free agent WR's for training camp bodies. I disagree with you by the way, you can find real good players late in the draft if a team does it's homework. Denarius Moore for example. Granted it won't happen every year but its not impossible either.
Well, I most definately disagree. We have 2 FA WRs, one is old and the other is broken. The need to replace them is just as much if not more than most of our other FAs.
So your telling me that our resources are better spent adding more young WR's via the draft then upgrading our LB depth (Blackstock was horrible filling in for McClain) or adding better depth to our Safety positions (Huff is converting over to a CB). In this case we will have to agree to disagree then.

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I tend to agree that our defense is what needs to be upgraded more than the O. But to be fair, we had a ton of injuries and guys like Blackstock are not supposed to have starting roles on any NFL roster. Our starting defense (when healthy) is actually a strength. And who knows what it could have been if we didn't have to backfill starting jobs with guys out of position. I think we will look back on our 2011 draft and we may have found our starting CB of the future in either Chimdi Checkwa or DVD. (I am in the Checkwa camp, but I would be pleased if both emerged). Our front seven (again assuming health) are a strong unit. You can't emphasize enough the loss of Shaughnessy at RDE. I think McClain will never be what we were all expecting from the consensus top LB of the draft a couple of years ago. He lacks the speed and instincts to man his position in the 4-3 alignment. Maybe they decide to switch to a 3-4 or even mix it up. Regardless, a new DC is required, and Bresh needs to go. I wish we still had Marshall, but again that attack defense was predicated on what Nnamdi could do shutting down half of the field. It's a different group of personnel, and we need a new DC. An NFL one, not a UFL one. We also don't need UFL quality backups. If we draft for need, we could sure use some depth on the defensive side.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.
UnknownCoach I don't think Counter Pass is saying we should go into training camp with just 4 wr's. What he is saying is that we have bigger needs then WR to spend what few draft picks we have on one. We can find decently priced veteran free agent WR's for training camp bodies. I disagree with you by the way, you can find real good players late in the draft if a team does it's homework. Denarius Moore for example. Granted it won't happen every year but its not impossible either.
Well, I most definately disagree. We have 2 FA WRs, one is old and the other is broken. The need to replace them is just as much if not more than most of our other FAs.
So your telling me that our resources are better spent adding more young WR's via the draft then upgrading our LB depth (Blackstock was horrible filling in for McClain) or adding better depth to our Safety positions (Huff is converting over to a CB). In this case we will have to agree to disagree then.
What I'm telling you is that late round draft picks only add depth. If you want a starter you pick him in the early rounds or sign a FA. Like I said at the very beginning, we need to add a starter quality safety and linebacker. You dont spend a late draft pick for a starter quality player. Again, like I said way in the beginning, we will be spending our few draft picks replacing some of those FA depth players I named. Like I said from the start, we need to look hard at a free agent safety, linebacker, corner, and possibly defensive tackle. I'm sorry if you want to feel that our team is going to get better in next year's draft, it isnt. All we can do with our draft is replace some of the free agent backup players who will be gone. I'm saying that Schilens and Housmanzadah are two of our FAs that we can most easily afford to let walk.

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http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

A link to potential 2012 free agents. I am sure this is not a complete list, but it is pretty good, year in and year out.

You can always tell where the needs are by which positions you instinctively click on. I went DB and OT. Linebacker is interesting, because I personally doubt we make a move next year. I think we stay with Kam, Ro, and Curry. I am not saying that's what we should do, it's what I think we will do. I'd rather have Kam playing DE, and find another LB, but that ain't gonna happen.

2012 NFL Free Agent Offensive Linemen

By: Roshan Bhagat

Demetrius Bell (BUF) - OT - Bell is another under-the-radar player capable of protecting the blindside and is a vital piece to the Bills' offense with an expiring contract. Though he's an above average pass protector, he's an even better run blocker for the left side. The Bills have some work to be done to keep all of the pieces together, which could allow Bell to slip through the cracks into free agency.

Carl Nicks (NO) - OG - Nicks is one of the premier guards in the league and after watching Jahri Evans strike a rich deal not too long ago, the Saints may be hard pressed to offer a second guard that type of money, though Nicks arguably had a better season a year ago. If Nicks doesn't put a hometown discount on the table, there's a good chance the market shows him more love than the Saints can afford to show him.

Ben Grubbs (BAL) - OG - Grubbs has been one of the top offensive linemen on one of the better units in the league over the past few years. Despite having some moving pieces next to him at left tackle, Grubbs has continued to excel. The team's run game is at its best with him blocking on the move. With some instability along the offensive line over the past few years, it wouldn't be surprising to see the Ravens address Grubbs' contract immediately.

Chris Myers (HOU) - OC - Myers has found himself in one of the best possible situations in the league with the Texans. After years of searching, the Texans have been able to replicate some of the success Head Coach Gary Kubiak had in Denver. Meyers is an outstanding system fit and will probably stay in Houston.

Jeff Saturday (IND) - OC - Though the Colts have bigger priorities, Saturday has been a Colt for a long time. With his career on winding down, he may want to stay put for a shot at another ring with Manning likely to return at full health next year.

Nick Hardwick (SD) - OC - Hardwick isn't nearly at his Pro Bowl level from several years back, but he's a solid center with good size, strength, and football IQ. The Chargers have some other contracts to address before they get to Hardwick, which would allow a team desperate in the middle to steal him from San Diego while searching for his Pro Bowl years yet again.

Scott Wells (GB) - OC - Like Meyers, Wells is an ideal system fit. The Packers have sought to get bigger and stronger at the position over the Thompson's tenure, but there's no doubt that Wells has consistently outperformed all others. He's a heady center with no flash that could play well into his 30s. Though the Packers won't offer a lucrative deal, he's also unlikely to find that elsewhere as an undersized center.

I always do a doubletake at players that have a connection with our coaching staff, so you have to wonder about Grubbs getting a call from Hue. I would love to get Nicks as well.

Rest of the OT:

The Rest:

D'Anthony Batiste (ARZ) - OT

Levi Brown (ARZ) - OT

Brandon Keith (ARZ) - OT

Mark LeVoir (BAL) - OT

Demetrius Bell (BUF) - OT

Erik Pears (BUF) - OT

Anthony Collins (CIN) - OT

Dennis Roland (CIN) - OT

Oniel Cousins (CLE) - OT

Artis Hicks (CLE) - OT

Guy Whimper (JAC) - OT

Jared Gaither (KC) - OT

Barry Richardson (KC) - OT

Vernon Carey (MIA) - OT

Kareem McKenzie (NYG) - OT

Robert Turner (NYJ) - OT

Khalif Barnes (OAK) - OT

Stephon Heyer (OAK) - OT

King Dunlap (PHI) - OT

Trai Essex (PIT) - OT

Max Starks (PIT) - OT

Breno Giacomini (SEA) - OT

Adam Snyder (SF) - OT

Adam Goldberg (STL) - OT

James Lee (TB) - OT

Mike Otto (TEN) - OT

C.J. Davis (CAR) - OT - Exclusive Rights

Geoff Schwartz (CAR) - OT - Restricted

Garry Williams (CAR) - OT - Restricted

Jermey Parnell (DAL) - OT - Exclusive Rights

Chris Clark (DEN) - OT - Exclusive Rights

Corey Hilliard (DET) - OT - Restricted

Lydon Murtha (MIA) - OT - Restricted

Patrick Brown (MIN) - OT - Exclusive Rights

Brandyn Dombrowski (SD) - OT - Restricted

Alex Boone (SF) - OT - Exclusive Rights

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http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/db.html

Top Cornerbacks:

Brent Grimes (ATL) - If there's one player the Falcons can't afford to lose, it's Brent Grimes. Their secondary has struggled through the first 5 games while placing near the bottom of the pack in defensive completion percentage. Grimes, meanwhile, has emerged on the map as one of the league's underrated cover men.

Carlos Rogers (SF) - Rogers is having another overlooked season as one of the league's most underrated players. After showing poor hands in Washington, he's managed to snag a couple picks early in the year which may start to help him garner more notice. As a cover corner, he's been among the league's best, but falling short of the elites. His consistency is admirable for a position that struggles with just that and the Niners should be the first to recognize his value.

Cortland Finnegan (TEN) - Despite some of his ÒdirtyÓ tactics as some may call it, Finnegan has been a top 10 corner for much of his career. He's strong in run support and solid in coverage. He lacks ideal size, but is a perfect fit for what the Titans do on the perimeter. There were rumors that Finnegan was displeased with the lack of contract talks coming into the year, which could signal some existing animosity on Finnegan's behalf.

Brandon Carr (KC) - It's hard to pinpoint what happens to the Chiefs defense with both Carr and Flowers showing signs of regression from a year ago. Carr was a potential breakout player and the Chiefs were poised to have one of the best cornerback tandems in the league. Though Carr has played far from terrible, he will command a price tag a bit above the average of a number two corner.

Tracy Porter (NO) - Porter's biggest problem is the inability to complete a 16 game season. When healthy, he's a consistent starter for the Saints and another good number two cornerback.

Terrell Thomas (NYG) - Thomas was an above average number two cornerback prior to suffering a season-ending injury. He's also one of the best in the league in run support, so if he can make a full recovery, he would be a valuable pick-up for a team looking to get physical on the perimeter.

Marcus Trufant (SEA) - Trufant is best when played in press-man coverage and a physical presence on the perimeter. Though he's far from a great number one, he could make for a great number two on a number of teams with the right fit. He's on the wrong side of 30 and will be searching for his last significant contract. It seems like Seattle could still use him.

Ronde Barber (TB) - As Barber continues to defy his age, he'll continue to have the opportunity to retire on his own accord. If he'll play, the Buccaneers will have him.

Other Notable Free Agents:

Richard Marshall (ARZ)

Kelvin Hayden (ATL)

Cletis Gordon (CAR)

Zackary Bowman (CHI)

Corey Graham (CHI)

Tim Jennings (CHI)

Kelly Jennings (CIN)

Alan Ball (DAL)

Eric Wright (DET)

Jarrett Bush (GB)

Pat Lee (GB)

Jason Allen (HOU)

Dwight Lowery (JAC)

Rashean Mathis (JAC)

William Middleton (JAC)

Will Allen (MIA)

Antwaun Molden (NE)

Michael Coe (NYG)

Aaron Ross (NYG)

Donald Strickland (NYJ)

William Gay (PIT)

Al Harris (STL)

Elbert Mack (TB)

A.J. Jefferson (ARZ) - CB - Exclusive Rights

Greg Toler (ARZ) - CB - Restricted

Lardarius Webb (BAL) - CB - Restricted

R.J. Stanford (CAR) - CB - Exclusive Rights

Jacob Lacey (IND) - CB - Restricted

Bruce Johnson (NYG) - CB - Restricted

Marquice Cole (NYJ) - CB - Restricted

Keenan Lewis (PIT) - CB - Restricted

Byron Westbrook (WAS) - CB - Restricted

Safeties:

LaRon Landry (WAS) - Though Landry already carried a lucrative contract as a top 10 pick as a rookie, his play as of late suggests he has another large deal in his future. The Redskins defense is noticeably better with him in the lineup and given his athleticism and propensity to lay the lumber, with consistency, Landry could join the elites at his position.

Michael Griffin (TEN) - There hasn't been a more inconsistent safety in the league over the last couple years than Michael Griffin, who has gone from being Pro Bowl caliber to below average and back up again. Still, he's much stronger than what the Titans have to offer at the safety position beside him, so there's a good chance they'll look to retain Griffin. If history has shown anything in Tennessee, it's that they don't believe in overpaying.

Chris Harris (DET) - Harris is coming off a career year at safety having shown aptitude in coverage and run defense. However, through the early portion of this season, it has been quite a different tale. He's already been responsible for two 40+ yard runs and a 70+ yard TD-all on Monday night against the Lions. This type of inconsistency has been the norm for NFL safeties outside of a handful. It's certainly not something the Bears are too pleased about.

Tyvon Branch (OAK) - Branch has the makings of a solid strong safety. He's fills down hard and is effective near the line of scrimmage. Though he doesn't have the versatility to play much man coverage, he's more than adequate when given zone responsibilities.

Brandon Meriweather (CHI) - Perhaps Meriweather is only notable because he was a Pro Bowl player cut before the beginning of the next season, none of which had to do with off-field or character concerns. Simply put, he's a poor tackler and inconsistent in coverage. For those believing that Meriweather would be a huge upgrade in the secondary-it'll probably be by name only. By this time next year, the search for a safety will still be underway. Make no mistake though-the talent is there, but the production is definitely not.

The Rest:

Hamza Abdullah (ARZ)

Thomas DeCoud (ATL)

James Sanders (ATL)

Tom Zbikowski (BAL)

Bryan Scott (BUF)

Craig Steltz (CHI)

Reggie Nelson (CIN)

Gibril Wilson (CIN)

Mike Adams (CLE)

Abram Elam (DAL)

Gerald Sensabaugh (DAL)

Erik Coleman (DET)

Dominique Barber (HOU)

Courtney Greene (JAC)

Jon McGraw (KC)

Husain Abdullah (MIN)

Tyrell Johnson (MIN)

Derrick Martin (NYG)

Jim Leonhard (NYJ)

Brodney Pool (NYJ)

Steve Gregory (SD)

Paul Oliver (SD)

Bob Sanders (SD)

Dashon Goldson (SF)

Reggie Smith (SF)

Madieu Williams (SF)

Tanard Jackson (TB)

Sean Jones (TB)

Corey Lynch (TB)

Jordan Babineaux (TEN)

Chris Hope (TEN)

Anthony Smith (TEN)

Rashad Johnson (ARZ) - S - Restricted

Jeromy Miles (CIN) - S - Exclusive Rights

Randy Phillips (DET) - S - Exclusive Rights

Bret Lockett (NE) - S - Exclusive Rights

Jonathon Amaya (NO) - S - Exclusive Rights

Jerome Boyd (OAK) - S - Exclusive Rights

Tramaine Brock (SF) - S - Exclusive Rights

C.J. Spillman (SF) - S - Restricted

Darian Stewart (STL) - S - Exclusive Rights

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You can always tell where the needs are by which positions you instinctively click on. I went DB and OT. Linebacker is interesting, because I personally doubt we make a move next year. I think we stay with Kam, Ro, and Curry. I am not saying that's what we should do, it's what I think we will do. I'd rather have Kam playing DE, and find another LB, but that ain't gonna happen.

Remember we are getting a new GM and likely a new DC. That greatly increases the chance of bringing in a linebacker to at least compete with Wimbley if not out right replace him. Far easier for me to say it than the Raiders to do it though.

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I tend to agree that our defense is what needs to be upgraded more than the O. But to be fair, we had a ton of injuries and guys like Blackstock are not supposed to have starting roles on any NFL roster. Our starting defense (when healthy) is actually a strength. And who knows what it could have been if we didn't have to backfill starting jobs with guys out of position. I think we will look back on our 2011 draft and we may have found our starting CB of the future in either Chimdi Checkwa or DVD. (I am in the Checkwa camp, but I would be pleased if both emerged). Our front seven (again assuming health) are a strong unit. You can't emphasize enough the loss of Shaughnessy at RDE. I think McClain will never be what we were all expecting from the consensus top LB of the draft a couple of years ago. He lacks the speed and instincts to man his position in the 4-3 alignment. Maybe they decide to switch to a 3-4 or even mix it up. Regardless, a new DC is required, and Bresh needs to go. I wish we still had Marshall, but again that attack defense was predicated on what Nnamdi could do shutting down half of the field. It's a different group of personnel, and we need a new DC. An NFL one, not a UFL one. We also don't need UFL quality backups. If we draft for need, we could sure use some depth on the defensive side.

I agree with you on McClain. I think he would be better suited in a 3-4 defense. I hope we can get an innovative defensive coach and switch schemes up. I'm also a big fan of Checkwa, I was impressed with him before he got injured.

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When you own as few draft picks as the Raiders the last thing you should be considering is honoring Davis with a later round WR pick.I just do not see it as a position of need either. They four 4 decent prospects in Moore, Ford, DHB, and Murphy. Get stronger on the lines and the back end of the defense.

We need a lot more than 4 WRs going into training camp. Late round draft picks add quantity not quality. We'll be lucky if we can get even one difference maker in next year's draft. If Bush leaves, that is where I'd spend the top pick.
UnknownCoach I don't think Counter Pass is saying we should go into training camp with just 4 wr's. What he is saying is that we have bigger needs then WR to spend what few draft picks we have on one. We can find decently priced veteran free agent WR's for training camp bodies. I disagree with you by the way, you can find real good players late in the draft if a team does it's homework. Denarius Moore for example. Granted it won't happen every year but its not impossible either.
Well, I most definately disagree. We have 2 FA WRs, one is old and the other is broken. The need to replace them is just as much if not more than most of our other FAs.
So your telling me that our resources are better spent adding more young WR's via the draft then upgrading our LB depth (Blackstock was horrible filling in for McClain) or adding better depth to our Safety positions (Huff is converting over to a CB). In this case we will have to agree to disagree then.
What I'm telling you is that late round draft picks only add depth. If you want a starter you pick him in the early rounds or sign a FA. Like I said at the very beginning, we need to add a starter quality safety and linebacker. You dont spend a late draft pick for a starter quality player. Again, like I said way in the beginning, we will be spending our few draft picks replacing some of those FA depth players I named. Like I said from the start, we need to look hard at a free agent safety, linebacker, corner, and possibly defensive tackle. I'm sorry if you want to feel that our team is going to get better in next year's draft, it isnt. All we can do with our draft is replace some of the free agent backup players who will be gone. I'm saying that Schilens and Housmanzadah are two of our FAs that we can most easily afford to let walk.
Now your just being silly. I never once said that we can use this years upcoming draft to make drastic improvements to our team. It's not going to happen with no 1st or 2nd round picks. The most dramatic provements will have to be made via free agency and/or trade. All I'm saying is I think our draft can be better spent working on defensive depth and some offensive line depth. Barnes has to go he is a penalty waiting to happen.

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You can always tell where the needs are by which positions you instinctively click on. I went DB and OT. Linebacker is interesting, because I personally doubt we make a move next year. I think we stay with Kam, Ro, and Curry. I am not saying that's what we should do, it's what I think we will do. I'd rather have Kam playing DE, and find another LB, but that ain't gonna happen.

Remember we are getting a new GM and likely a new DC. That greatly increases the chance of bringing in a linebacker to at least compete with Wimbley if not out right replace him. Far easier for me to say it than the Raiders to do it though.
True that. Mike Silver just tweeted that Bres IS getting fired, I think this is about as much a secret at Hue getting hired.

I always thought Kam as a LB in a 4-3 didn't make sense. You can get by with him, but eventually, you are asking him to cover someone man-to-man, and that cannot end well. I just always thought having a rotation at DE, with him, O'Shucks, and Houston made sense (rotate Houston inside on passing downs, he's a terror rushing inside).

If we go to a 3-4, even a Baltimore style multiple look, Kam makes a lot more sense in the Suggs role. What we are missing in that defense is the Gregg/Ngata/Terrence Cody. And that's a big spot to be missing. Henderson doesn't qualify.

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Now your just being silly. I never once said that we can use this years upcoming draft to make drastic improvements to our team. It's not going to happen with no 1st or 2nd round picks. The most dramatic provements will have to be made via free agency and/or trade. All I'm saying is I think our draft can be better spent working on defensive depth and some offensive line depth. Barnes has to go he is a penalty waiting to happen.

Whatever. You can argue what to do with the late round picks all you want. Last year we took Jones, Gordan, and Ausberry. Players with potential, not players we needed. I dont see any reason to be concerned with big needs at that point in the draft but if that's your thing, whatever.

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Just heard on the radio that every defensive coach on the staff except the d-line coach was fired today.

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Just heard on the radio that every defensive coach on the staff except the d-line coach was fired today.

I haven't seen that yet. The latest is that Bres and 3 other coaches are finishing out the last two weeks of their contract. :shrug: Whatever. I can't get worked up about anyone except Bres, who I want gone, and never should have come back. People will get upset if Woodson goes, but who knows if he was a good coach or not? I don't.

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