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Brock Osweiler (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter azgroover
- Start date
FUBAR
Footballguy
that might be a key. Aside from Rodgers, few can follow a HOF QB and be labeled a success.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I agree with this. It is a great deal for him, but I have a sneaking feeling Houston fans are going to be longing for the Hoyer days when this is all said and done.
As a lifelong Bronco fan, I have see every play from Brock. He just has never impressed me that much. His release is weird because of his size and I personally believe this causes a lot of wide receiver drops. His durability could be an issue because he is such a big target and takes big hits. He gets really antsy in the pocket and will tuck and run often. His long ball has a lot to be desired.
I personally was comfortable with him being the QB this year, because Denver finished so low last year in the passing game and still got a Super Bowl. All they needed is a serviceable body back there to not hurt the team.
However, he is going to a team that is looking for him to be the savior for that offense and that's got to be a lot of pressure. After all the woes Houston has endured with the quarterback position, I don't think the fans are going to have a lot of patience with him.
if Denver can land FitzPatrick for a 2 year stint and draft a QB or even continue developing Trevor, I think Denver is going to be better off in the long run, but that is my opinion only.
GregR
Footballguy
I think you could very well be right. I'm not sold on Osweiler as turning into a franchise QB. I don't think there's no way he will, but I think history probably shows the odds are against it being the case for a guy where he's at so I expect that's the most likely outcome.
From a Houston fan's perspective, I think it's more about having found a way to take some shots at guys who at least do have some potential. The book wasn't completely written on Hoyer going into last year, but probably far more than Osweiler. If a team isn't in a position to get a top prospect with their draft pick, and isn't sure there's going to be someone worth developing even at their pick, I think it makes sense to keep taking stabs at guys like this and hope you find someone who does develop.
So I agree it's likely he won't work out, but think it's still a right move to take to try for more than a 1 year fill in. I think Fitz makes a lot of sense for Denver given their situation (after losing Osweiler), use him for a year or two and then you're probably in rebuild mode anyway.
From a Houston fan's perspective, I think it's more about having found a way to take some shots at guys who at least do have some potential. The book wasn't completely written on Hoyer going into last year, but probably far more than Osweiler. If a team isn't in a position to get a top prospect with their draft pick, and isn't sure there's going to be someone worth developing even at their pick, I think it makes sense to keep taking stabs at guys like this and hope you find someone who does develop.
So I agree it's likely he won't work out, but think it's still a right move to take to try for more than a 1 year fill in. I think Fitz makes a lot of sense for Denver given their situation (after losing Osweiler), use him for a year or two and then you're probably in rebuild mode anyway.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I'm surprised by your post only because I nearly always find myself in complete agreement wit you, and here I do not. I thought he did very well under adverse circumstances. he played some tough games, against tough defenses, and sometimes at tough venues and under sometimes less than ideal weather. I thought he showed a lot., not Aaron Rodgers stuff, but maybe Flacco or Matt Ryan stuff.
Given my respect for your opinion I will have to re-evaluate my own.
He doesn't have to be a savior on offense for Houston, he just has to be better than the steaming pile they have trotted out the last few years. Fitz, Yates, Hoyer, Mallet, and I forget the others already. He'll be doing the same thing Denver asked him to do, take care of the football and at least be functional while running game and the #3 ranked defense takes care of the rest. The way the contract is structured, if he can't do that, Houston can cut him after only 2 seasons with little ramifications.
massraider
Footballguy
Questions:
I am rooting against the Texans (Bob McNair can eat a bag of ####s) but this seems like a nice situation, and I'd really like to hear why this is a bad move for him.
- Why is it that the Broncos wanted him to be a game manager in 2016, but the Texans need him to be a savior? They made the playoffs with Hoyer, why do they need Brock to be Drew Brees?
- He's got 7 starts right? Anyone think that's enough to evaluate him as a QB? Anyone?
- He sat and learned behind Manning for years, now goes to a good defense, Nuke Hopkins, and Lamar Miller. This sound good to anyone else?
- Broncos offered him 17 mill a year? How many people think the Broncos have a dumb front office?
I am rooting against the Texans (Bob McNair can eat a bag of ####s) but this seems like a nice situation, and I'd really like to hear why this is a bad move for him.
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GregR
Footballguy
I don't know that they should be thrilled. If they get Kaep or RG3 cheaper AND they play great, then sure they should be thrilled. But neither Denver nor Houston thought either of those two were better options or they wouldn't have gone after Osweiler first.
No one wants to overpay for a QB. But for teams in the position of Denver and Houston, picking too late to probably get a quality prospect this year, I think overpaying if it gets you decent QB play and some long term potential is better than staying cheap and just getting by.
One thing I keep seeing is people bringing up Hoyer had a better QB rating than Osweiler. Basically every QB that has played under O'brien has set or equaled his career best. Hoyer and Fitz did. Wheedon did and Yates equaled his best though theirs are small samples. It comes down to which do you think has the better long term prospect to be QB? I don't think Hoyer having a better rating makes anyone think he's the better shot at a long term answer. Really what impresses me is how O'brien has done a great job crafting his offense to fit the strengths of his QBs, and that shows in their QB ratings.
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Yeah, saw that article randomly before Faust posted it. Some horrible arguments, love how the author makes a big deal out of getting overpaid $37M guaranteed out of the Texans and totally ignores that the Broncos bid at least $30M guaranteed.
Is it a big risk for the Texans? Sure, but so would have trading multiple 1sts to trade up for a not so great prospect this year in a weak QB draft. Or going into 2016 with another castoff failed QB to try and rehabilitate which has been a failed strategy the last 2 years in a row.
Is it a big risk for the Texans? Sure, but so would have trading multiple 1sts to trade up for a not so great prospect this year in a weak QB draft. Or going into 2016 with another castoff failed QB to try and rehabilitate which has been a failed strategy the last 2 years in a row.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Brock 25 years old. last year: 8 games 170 of 275 for 1967 yards 10 tds and 6 int 61.8% 4 years 72 million with 37 million guaranteed.
Who am I talking about here?
last year 8 games 26 year old QB 178 of 282 for 2031 yards 10 tds and 7 int 63.1% 2 years 4 million with 500,000 guaranteed.
hint: Houston you could have had Blaine Gabbert
Who am I talking about here?
last year 8 games 26 year old QB 178 of 282 for 2031 yards 10 tds and 7 int 63.1% 2 years 4 million with 500,000 guaranteed.
hint: Houston you could have had Blaine Gabbert
FUBAR
Footballguy
we've seen 35 games from Blaine, enough to know he's not the answer. Maybe Os is, maybe not, but he has a better chance of being a franchise QB.
GregR
Footballguy
That's doing what I'm criticizing the articles for doing with Hoyer's QB rating last year.Courtjester said:
Are you saying that YOU think Blaine Gabbert is an equal or better potential option going forward than Osweiler? And that Houston, Denver, and every other team who pursued Osweiler should have pursued Gabbert instead?
If so then say it outright. If not, then this is just throwing out stats to paint something that you yourself don't believe. And that none of us believe either for the same very obvious reasons you don't.
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
So who would you rather have as your QB, Mark Sanchez, Brock Osweiler, Brian Hoyer, Blaine Gabbert or a rookie that has not played a down in the NFL
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GrandpaRox
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Denver offered him $16MM a year.Courtjester said:
FUBAR
Footballguy
"...Bottom line, I made my decision off where I felt like I could have the most success playing quarterback in the NFL and where I could go and win long-term."
FWIW, I think he's right.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
The two reasons he went to Houston? The extra $2 million a year he would get while there.
Shutout
Footballguy
Hard to understand how a guy can think his best chance to win is NOT with a Class A franchise that has been to many super bowls and won several vs. a team that has never done anything.
I know we all start somewhere but I think the "reason" is bs. The answer my friends is that it is ALWAYS about the money.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Money has to be key for sure. But the Texans seem to be a team on the rise who just made it into the playoffs with nobody at qb. You might say the same about Denver, but I actually think the Texans are a better team today than the broncos, even leaving qb out of the discussion. As a franchise you're right, the Texans don't have anywhere close to the broncos track record.
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
I was able to pick up Brock for a 2017 2nd round rookie pick. He thinks he made a good deal, I think I got a steal.
Those that think Os will be a mid 20's fantasy QB are going to be very surprised. With an upgraded OLine and the weapons he has on offense I will be shocked if he is not a top 10 fantasy QB.
There seems to be a lot of hate for him, he is going to surprise a lot of "experts".
I actually have to laugh at all the FBG forecasts. They make me not have a lot of faith in any of their forecasts.
Those that think Os will be a mid 20's fantasy QB are going to be very surprised. With an upgraded OLine and the weapons he has on offense I will be shocked if he is not a top 10 fantasy QB.
There seems to be a lot of hate for him, he is going to surprise a lot of "experts".
I actually have to laugh at all the FBG forecasts. They make me not have a lot of faith in any of their forecasts.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
Texans lost Brandon Brooks (G) and Ben Jones (C) to free agency. They acquired Jeff Allen (G) and Tony Bergstrom (C).
Jeff Allen was an upgrade from Brandon Brooks and Ben Jones sucked so Bergstrom is a wash at worst. They drafted Nick Martin (C) in the 2nd round and he will challenge Bergstrom for the starting job. To most if not all Texan fans the center position will be an upgrade over Ben Jones from last year.
The big question mark is Duane Brown who was injured at the end of last season. His recovery seems to be on track and he "should " be ready to go for the season .
Also Lamar Miller is a huge upgrade over what the Texans had at RB last year and Brock Osweiler is a top 5 QB against the blitz.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/205033/carson-palmer-tom-brady-thrive-against-blitz-nick-foles-sam-bradford-not-so-much
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
Five best quarterback against the blitz:
Carson Palmer: The 36-year-old has had success against the blitz. He led all quarterbacks, averaging 8.45 yards per dropback against pressure looks last season. Palmer completed 65 percent of his passes (second) and averaged 9.35 yards per attempt (third). Over the last three years, no quarterback has produced a better average yards per dropback (7.62) than Palmer. His success hasn’t stopped opposing defensive coordinators from sending pressure. Only three quarterbacks were blitzed more than Palmer in 2015.
Tom Brady: His 12-to-1 touchdown to interception ratio against the blitz was tops in the NFL. Sending pressure against Brady in the red zone worked out horribly for opponents. He went 18-of-25 on 26 dropbacks in those situations. Eleven of those completions resulted in touchdowns, and he didn’t take a single sack. Over the past three seasons, Brady has posted a 105.8 passer rating against the blitz, second best in the NFL.
Andy Dalton: He consistently beats defenses with a quick trigger. Against the blitz, Dalton got rid of the ball on average in 2.02 seconds, the fastest time in the NFL last season. His 112.4 passer rating against pressure looks last year was second in the NFL, and over the past three seasons Dalton has averaged 7.31 yards per dropback against the blitz (second).
Cam Newton: Over the first four years of his career, Newton had a 1.95-to-1 TD-to-INT ratio against the blitz. Last year, that number skyrocketed to 6.33-to-1. In the red zone, Newton completed 68.6 percent of his passes for 14 touchdowns and no picks against pressure looks. Overall, Newton’s 111.8 passer rating against the blitz was third best in the league. Yet the numbers didn’t stop teams from trying to send extra guys at him. Newton faced pressure looks on 39.7 percent of his dropbacks, second most in the league.
Brock Osweiler: His numbers against the blitz were far better than Peyton Manning’s last season. Osweiler led the NFL in yards per attempt (9.83) and passer rating (114.6) against pressure looks. Manning was 24th and 26th, respectively, in those categories. Osweiler has just seven career starts, so it’s a small sample size, but his success against pressure is an encouraging sign for Houston Texans fans.
Five worst Quarterbacks against the blitz:
Nick Foles: The forgotten man with the Los Angeles Rams averaged a league-worst 4.35 yards per dropback against the blitz last season. He completed just 50.5 percent of his passes (third worst) and averaged 4.86 YPA (last) against pressure. Something tells me he won't have enough attempts to qualify for this list next offseason.
Sam Bradford: What’s interesting about Bradford is defenses had very little success sacking him when they blitzed. Opponents brought him down 2.1 percent of the time when sending pressure, the second-lowest number among all quarterbacks. The problem? Although Bradford got rid of the ball, he rarely did anything positive with it. Bradford completed 50 percent of his passes (second worst) against pressure. His 65.9 passer rating was ahead of only Foles, and Bradford’s 28.0 QBR ranked 32nd.
Colin Kaepernick: He was the only quarterback in the NFL to complete fewer than 50 percent of his attempts (48.1) against the blitz last season. Kaepernick’s legs weren’t much of a weapon against pressure either. He averaged 4.89 yards per dropback when blitzed, fourth worst. Interestingly enough, Blaine Gabbert averaged 8.24, second best.
Eli Manning: No quarterback was blitzed less frequently last season. Opponents sent pressure at Manning on just 16.3 percent of his dropbacks, but on those occasions, he performed poorly. Manning’s 67.7 passer rating against the blitz was ahead of only Foles and Bradford. In the past three years, Manning’s passer rating against the blitz (82.0) ranks in the bottom five league-wide.
Joe Flacco: It seems to have flown under the radar, but Flacco and the Ravens’ offense have struggled against the blitz. His QBR of 37.0 ranked 30th last season. Since 2013, Flacco has been one of the more mistake-prone QBs against the blitz, with the second-highest interception rate (3.4 percent) in the NFL.
Carson Palmer: The 36-year-old has had success against the blitz. He led all quarterbacks, averaging 8.45 yards per dropback against pressure looks last season. Palmer completed 65 percent of his passes (second) and averaged 9.35 yards per attempt (third). Over the last three years, no quarterback has produced a better average yards per dropback (7.62) than Palmer. His success hasn’t stopped opposing defensive coordinators from sending pressure. Only three quarterbacks were blitzed more than Palmer in 2015.
Tom Brady: His 12-to-1 touchdown to interception ratio against the blitz was tops in the NFL. Sending pressure against Brady in the red zone worked out horribly for opponents. He went 18-of-25 on 26 dropbacks in those situations. Eleven of those completions resulted in touchdowns, and he didn’t take a single sack. Over the past three seasons, Brady has posted a 105.8 passer rating against the blitz, second best in the NFL.
Andy Dalton: He consistently beats defenses with a quick trigger. Against the blitz, Dalton got rid of the ball on average in 2.02 seconds, the fastest time in the NFL last season. His 112.4 passer rating against pressure looks last year was second in the NFL, and over the past three seasons Dalton has averaged 7.31 yards per dropback against the blitz (second).
Cam Newton: Over the first four years of his career, Newton had a 1.95-to-1 TD-to-INT ratio against the blitz. Last year, that number skyrocketed to 6.33-to-1. In the red zone, Newton completed 68.6 percent of his passes for 14 touchdowns and no picks against pressure looks. Overall, Newton’s 111.8 passer rating against the blitz was third best in the league. Yet the numbers didn’t stop teams from trying to send extra guys at him. Newton faced pressure looks on 39.7 percent of his dropbacks, second most in the league.
Brock Osweiler: His numbers against the blitz were far better than Peyton Manning’s last season. Osweiler led the NFL in yards per attempt (9.83) and passer rating (114.6) against pressure looks. Manning was 24th and 26th, respectively, in those categories. Osweiler has just seven career starts, so it’s a small sample size, but his success against pressure is an encouraging sign for Houston Texans fans.
Five worst Quarterbacks against the blitz:
Nick Foles: The forgotten man with the Los Angeles Rams averaged a league-worst 4.35 yards per dropback against the blitz last season. He completed just 50.5 percent of his passes (third worst) and averaged 4.86 YPA (last) against pressure. Something tells me he won't have enough attempts to qualify for this list next offseason.
Sam Bradford: What’s interesting about Bradford is defenses had very little success sacking him when they blitzed. Opponents brought him down 2.1 percent of the time when sending pressure, the second-lowest number among all quarterbacks. The problem? Although Bradford got rid of the ball, he rarely did anything positive with it. Bradford completed 50 percent of his passes (second worst) against pressure. His 65.9 passer rating was ahead of only Foles, and Bradford’s 28.0 QBR ranked 32nd.
Colin Kaepernick: He was the only quarterback in the NFL to complete fewer than 50 percent of his attempts (48.1) against the blitz last season. Kaepernick’s legs weren’t much of a weapon against pressure either. He averaged 4.89 yards per dropback when blitzed, fourth worst. Interestingly enough, Blaine Gabbert averaged 8.24, second best.
Eli Manning: No quarterback was blitzed less frequently last season. Opponents sent pressure at Manning on just 16.3 percent of his dropbacks, but on those occasions, he performed poorly. Manning’s 67.7 passer rating against the blitz was ahead of only Foles and Bradford. In the past three years, Manning’s passer rating against the blitz (82.0) ranks in the bottom five league-wide.
Joe Flacco: It seems to have flown under the radar, but Flacco and the Ravens’ offense have struggled against the blitz. His QBR of 37.0 ranked 30th last season. Since 2013, Flacco has been one of the more mistake-prone QBs against the blitz, with the second-highest interception rate (3.4 percent) in the NFL.
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
Just another weapon for Osweiler:
Relatively speaking, many believe that running back is the "easiest" position for a rookie to make an immediate impact on the NFL. It certainly is among the easiest positions to make a strong first impression on coaches.
With defenders held from fully tackling during minicamps and OTAs, backs with vision, elusiveness and burst can make a spectacular professional debut, especially if they also have the soft hands and body control to also operate as a receiver out of the backfield or in the return game.
This is precisely the scenario developing in Houston, where splashy free agent Lamar Miller was notably signed in the offseason to replace current street agent Arian Foster, the Texans' all-time rushing yardage (6,472) and touchdown (54) leader.
With all due respect to the Texans' talented new back, he'll need help.
The Texans handed Miller a four-year, $26 million dollar deal to be their lead back but head coach Bill O'Brien has been a big believer in the running back by committee approach dating back to his time working with the New England Patriots. While Foster's 2015 was cut short with a torn Achilles tendon, backups Alfred Blue, Jonathan Grimes, Akeem Spence and Chris Polk (also now a street free agent), combined to rush 355 times for 1,410 yards last season -- more than 300 yards more than Miller even ran in a single season for the Miami Dolphins.
From a style standpoint, Ervin more closely resembles Miller than Foster. Slimmer and more explosive, the 5-foot-10, 192-pound rookie from San Jose State is a classic jitterbug with the agility to make defenders miss as well as the speed to run by them. He proved as much during his time at San Jose State, rushing for an eye-popping 1,469 yards and 13 touchdowns as a senior to earn an invitation to the Senior Bowl, where he again stood out.
Ervin has a stacked depth chart to overcome to see significant rushing opportunities in 2015 but he should make an immediate impact as a receiver and on special teams. His soft, reliable hands were put to good use by the Spartans in college, where he caught 73 passes for 642 yards the past two seasons. According to multiple reports, O'Brien and the Texans have peppered Ervin with passes throughout the early practice sessions, an indication that the head coach may have a Shane Vereen-like role in mind for the speedy back.
Better yet, Ervin averaged 23.5 yards per kickoff return (with three touchdowns scored) and 13.3 yards per punt return, taking back two of these for scores, as well. Ervin's big-play potential as a returner is something the Texans have been sorely lacking. Houston has just two returns for touchdowns (both following punts) since 2009.
Relatively speaking, many believe that running back is the "easiest" position for a rookie to make an immediate impact on the NFL. It certainly is among the easiest positions to make a strong first impression on coaches.
With defenders held from fully tackling during minicamps and OTAs, backs with vision, elusiveness and burst can make a spectacular professional debut, especially if they also have the soft hands and body control to also operate as a receiver out of the backfield or in the return game.
This is precisely the scenario developing in Houston, where splashy free agent Lamar Miller was notably signed in the offseason to replace current street agent Arian Foster, the Texans' all-time rushing yardage (6,472) and touchdown (54) leader.
With all due respect to the Texans' talented new back, he'll need help.
The Texans handed Miller a four-year, $26 million dollar deal to be their lead back but head coach Bill O'Brien has been a big believer in the running back by committee approach dating back to his time working with the New England Patriots. While Foster's 2015 was cut short with a torn Achilles tendon, backups Alfred Blue, Jonathan Grimes, Akeem Spence and Chris Polk (also now a street free agent), combined to rush 355 times for 1,410 yards last season -- more than 300 yards more than Miller even ran in a single season for the Miami Dolphins.
From a style standpoint, Ervin more closely resembles Miller than Foster. Slimmer and more explosive, the 5-foot-10, 192-pound rookie from San Jose State is a classic jitterbug with the agility to make defenders miss as well as the speed to run by them. He proved as much during his time at San Jose State, rushing for an eye-popping 1,469 yards and 13 touchdowns as a senior to earn an invitation to the Senior Bowl, where he again stood out.
Ervin has a stacked depth chart to overcome to see significant rushing opportunities in 2015 but he should make an immediate impact as a receiver and on special teams. His soft, reliable hands were put to good use by the Spartans in college, where he caught 73 passes for 642 yards the past two seasons. According to multiple reports, O'Brien and the Texans have peppered Ervin with passes throughout the early practice sessions, an indication that the head coach may have a Shane Vereen-like role in mind for the speedy back.
Better yet, Ervin averaged 23.5 yards per kickoff return (with three touchdowns scored) and 13.3 yards per punt return, taking back two of these for scores, as well. Ervin's big-play potential as a returner is something the Texans have been sorely lacking. Houston has just two returns for touchdowns (both following punts) since 2009.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
He looked terrible yesterday. Just brutal.
YoUnG GuNz
Footballguy
Brock stinks. This is no surprise. Strong arm + size doesn't = successful QB.
