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Rumor on ESPNNFL: DMac on the trading block? (1 Viewer)

I don't know that there's much of a trade market for RBs these days, particularly ones that have played well enough to want big dollars but are gimpy enough to wonder if they would ever earn another large contract.

 
Plenty of teams that would line up to trade for a brittle, yet talented, RB for 1/2 a season.

 
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'Autumn Wind said:
'cvnpoka said:
palmer is a ton better than campbell
Click to expand...
He certainly has a more explosive arm and can break games open, but Campbell showed himself to be a superior game manager last season.
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I like Campbell better tbh. Palmer isn't that much better of a passer, if at all, and his lack of mobility is a deficit. Palmer has not played like a top Qb since his injury and I don't see that changing. He is average to slightly below average.
 
'az_prof said:
'Autumn Wind said:
'cvnpoka said:
palmer is a ton better than campbell
Click to expand...
He certainly has a more explosive arm and can break games open, but Campbell showed himself to be a superior game manager last season.
Click to expand...
I like Campbell better tbh. Palmer isn't that much better of a passer, if at all, and his lack of mobility is a deficit. Palmer has not played like a top Qb since his injury and I don't see that changing. He is average to slightly below average.
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I saw enough flashes in the games he played to give me hope that he will greatly benefit from a full off-season and training camp.
 
'Gandalf said:
What I can't figure it is WHY the Raiders want to trade him??? Makes me concerned about his health and dynasty outlook going forward. If the raiders are choosing bush over him doesn't that say a lot? People point out that the raiders could use a draft pick, but seriously what is a draft pick compared to McFadden from 2010. Makes me conclude that the raiders don't think he will return to 2010 form. And they are the team that knows him the best.
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Well, to us, a player is just a player and you can insert a guy and then we assume they will get their career average. But to a GM and HC, you have a system and you want players who fit your system. You tend to build your offensive strategy around your key players, including QB and RB. The problem with a guy like DMAC is you can't build around him because he is not likely to play the whole season. So, I could see trading him if you got good quality in return, and then drafting the player who fits your system.
 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
'sho nuff said:
IF some team could figure out how to get 16 games out of him, they would do it...but that is such a big if I would not see anyone giving anything more than a late 2nd for him.I don't see teams spending picks in the first round and a half on a RB who has been in the league for a while and can't stay healthy.
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Lot of hyperbole. Fact is he's still only 24 yo. He's an elite runner among a handful of the best at his position. Yes, he's been oft-injured. But they aren't career threatening or debilitating injuries. Just bad luck. His age and talent is worth a late first rounder, certainly no lower than an early 2nd. Fred Taylor had the rep as "fragile fred" and overcame that dubius nickname with some career rebounding numbers. And he was much older than DMC when he produced. You are seriously undervaluing DMC here.
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:goodposting: "injury prone" is an overused, and misused, term
 
didn't he have the dreaded LisFranc injury?

No team is going to give up a 1st rounder for a guy with one of the worst possible injuries a RB can have.

 
'moderated said:
didn't he have the dreaded LisFranc injury?No team is going to give up a 1st rounder for a guy with one of the worst possible injuries a RB can have.
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saying he had a lisfranc injury is the same as saying someone had a knee injury. doesnt tell us anything about the severity or exactly what it is, just where it is.
 
'fruity pebbles said:
'moderated said:
didn't he have the dreaded LisFranc injury?No team is going to give up a 1st rounder for a guy with one of the worst possible injuries a RB can have.
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saying he had a lisfranc injury is the same as saying someone had a knee injury. doesnt tell us anything about the severity or exactly what it is, just where it is.
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And just like an achilles rupture...is it a full rupture or partial? They never release the details.
 
'az_prof said:
'Autumn Wind said:
'cvnpoka said:
palmer is a ton better than campbell
Click to expand...
He certainly has a more explosive arm and can break games open, but Campbell showed himself to be a superior game manager last season.
Click to expand...
I like Campbell better tbh. Palmer isn't that much better of a passer, if at all, and his lack of mobility is a deficit. Palmer has not played like a top Qb since his injury and I don't see that changing. He is average to slightly below average.
Click to expand...
palmer doesnt have to be a top qb to be better than campbell. did you watch much of the raiders? with palmer they were a legit down field passing threat. with campbell, 3rd and 8 was a long shot to convert and there really wasnt much hope of a big play. in a bit, i will dig up and record their distance splits. yes, campbell's short numbers look a lot better but i think short passing is subject a bit more to variance due to yac.
 
ok on deep passes 20+ yards palmer was 20-40 for 701 with 7tds/4int. 4a/g

10-19: 51-90 941 3/5 9a/g

0-9: 90-129 728 3/7 12.9a/g

campbell

20+: 6-24 222 1/2, 4a/g

10-19: 18-29 356 0/1, 4.9a/g

0-9: 52-73 446 5/1, 12.1a/g

as you can see campbell didnt throw downfield very much and when he attempted it, he was pretty bad. palmer jumping in the game off the couch was much better.

 
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.

 
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
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It's debatable because Palmer threw more INTs in 9 games than Campbell has thrown in his entire Raider career, his passer rating was lower than Campbell's in 2011 (and lower than Campbell's 2010), and he lost four of his last five games, needing a couple wins to make the playoffs. He hasn't had a good season since 2006.
 
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
'One said:
'Kool-Aid Larry said:
rumor is the pats will trade one of their many picks for him.
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Where did you hear this rumor?
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this is not their MO.and they spent 2 picks on the position least year
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Welker, Dillon, Moss, Branch and Ocho Cinco are all skill players that the Pats have traded for...obviously there is no evidence the Pats are targeting McFadden but trading for a veteran is something they will do...
 
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'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
He is not two first round picks better. He is marginally better. And Campbell adds the running dimension that Palmer lacks.
 
Unless they take a mid 2nd it's not happening, Raiders are going to have to bite the bullet and pay bush. This time their going to have to use an RBBC

 
'renesauz said:
'Raiderfan32904 said:
'sho nuff said:
IF some team could figure out how to get 16 games out of him, they would do it...but that is such a big if I would not see anyone giving anything more than a late 2nd for him.I don't see teams spending picks in the first round and a half on a RB who has been in the league for a while and can't stay healthy.
Click to expand...
Lot of hyperbole. Fact is he's still only 24 yo. He's an elite runner among a handful of the best at his position. Yes, he's been oft-injured. But they aren't career threatening or debilitating injuries. Just bad luck. His age and talent is worth a late first rounder, certainly no lower than an early 2nd. Fred Taylor had the rep as "fragile fred" and overcame that dubius nickname with some career rebounding numbers. And he was much older than DMC when he produced. You are seriously undervaluing DMC here.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: "injury prone" is an overused, and misused, term
Click to expand...
I agree in general, but not in this particular case. If he isn't injury prone, who is?
 
'az_prof said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
He is not two first round picks better. He is marginally better. And Campbell adds the running dimension that Palmer lacks.
Click to expand...
They didn't give two first rounders, though, did they? I thought one of them was contingent upon them making the AFC Title game or something.
 
'todisco1 said:
'az_prof said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
He is not two first round picks better. He is marginally better. And Campbell adds the running dimension that Palmer lacks.
Click to expand...
They didn't give two first rounders, though, did they? I thought one of them was contingent upon them making the AFC Title game or something.
Click to expand...
Yep-- The Raiders gave up a first-round pick in 2012 and a second-round pick in 2013 that can become another first if Oakland makes it to the AFC title game in either of the next two years.
 
'CalBear said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
It's debatable because Palmer threw more INTs in 9 games than Campbell has thrown in his entire Raider career, his passer rating was lower than Campbell's in 2011 (and lower than Campbell's 2010), and he lost four of his last five games, needing a couple wins to make the playoffs. He hasn't had a good season since 2006.
Click to expand...
lol passer ratingalso, int rate is notoriously fluky, as you should be aware as an active member of this community. http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09stuart_qbintrates.php

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=6068

 
'cvnpoka said:
'CalBear said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
It's debatable because Palmer threw more INTs in 9 games than Campbell has thrown in his entire Raider career, his passer rating was lower than Campbell's in 2011 (and lower than Campbell's 2010), and he lost four of his last five games, needing a couple wins to make the playoffs. He hasn't had a good season since 2006.
Click to expand...
lol passer ratingalso, int rate is notoriously fluky, as you should be aware as an active member of this community. http://subscribers.f..._qbintrates.php

http://www.pro-footb...om/blog/?p=6068
Click to expand...
INT rates are fluky, passer rating is fluky, losses are fluky. What evidence is there that isn't fluky? Dude, Palmer just isn't a great QB at this point in his career. Like I said, he has not had a good season since 2006; he certainly didn't have one in 2010 or 2011.
 
There are several scenarios with varying degrees of probability but given the fact veteran Raider reporter Steve Corkran states even with a new owner and GM things have neither declined nor improved but have remained "status quo" when it comes to the media leads most to believe Oakland will play their McFadden cards close to the vest.Here are a few scenarios we think have a higher probability of becoming reality.HE STAYSScenario one McFadden plays out his contract in Silver and Black.Despite failing to complete and entire season in 4 yrs as a Pro ( McFadden missed the last 9 games of 2011 with a foot sprain some think is a Lisfranc injury) there is little doubt when healthy, Darren McFadden is the most complete, best running back in the National Football League.On 6/5/2008 McFadden signed a six-year, $60 million contract. The deal contained $26 million guaranteed, including a $6.4 million "log" bonus and a second-year roster bonus of $5 million. In 2012 McFadden is slated to receive $5.65 million, in 2013 $5,856,250, and in 2014, becomes a Free Agent. That’s if he plays out this contract with Oakland.If he stays maybe new HC Dennis Allen can find a way to keep the 6-2, 220 lb speedster healthier by say, not bashing him up the middle as much and getting him out in space.Just sayin'.HE GOESNew GM Reggie McKenzie did say at his opening presser that he "likes his picks" and openly lamented the trade for Carson Palmer that cost Oakland this year’s 1st rounder and a possible 2nd round conditional pick the next.Some have speculated that McFadden could be McKenzie’s best bargaining chip to gaining more picks to play with in the draft. That’s assuming teams are willing to risk their picks on a back so often injured.With a trend toward passing (9 teams threw for over 4,000 yards last season) and cheaper running backs McFadden may be a harder sell than some realize especially for multiple picks.Current speculation has DMCs trade value based around a mid 20 in the 1st round.If Reggie thinks he can find a talent like the once or twice in a generation McFadden with that mid 20 selection he’s still only getting another player as good as McFadden maybe and with a chance of an injury history too.Staying with DMC seems like the best course of action at least through this year and by Gawd, people are going to see some matrix type stuff if Palmer and McFadden ever take the field together with Moore, Ford, Reece, Bey etc.That’s right. We said IF...HE RETIRESDon't laugh.Though McFadden was reportedly helping assistant coach RBs at this weekend’s Senior bowl there has been no green light or clean bill of health for the former Razorback since his injury.We're simply saying, stranger things have happened.If McFadden is unable to go again it leaves the Raiders in a lurch and calls in to question RB Michael Bush's status with the team.If McKenzie is smart and wants to keep Bush (He should no matter what he does with McFadden) and McFadden’s off the table, Bush theoretically becomes more valuable and is more likely to receive the franchise tag.Of course if McFadden can no longer play it makes his trade value null and void leaving Oakland in a lurch without trade bait or the all around best running back in the game. One of these scenarios seems more plausible than the others and which one we think it is may surprise you.Whatever happens we wish Darren McFadden all the best and hope the new powers that be in Oakland make the right call.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting perspective on McFadden's trade value from a Raiders blog. Pure speculation, but still as clear as mud.
 
'Tackling Dummies said:
'todisco1 said:
'az_prof said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
He is not two first round picks better. He is marginally better. And Campbell adds the running dimension that Palmer lacks.
Click to expand...
They didn't give two first rounders, though, did they? I thought one of them was contingent upon them making the AFC Title game or something.
Click to expand...
Yep-- The Raiders gave up a first-round pick in 2012 and a second-round pick in 2013 that can become another first if Oakland makes it to the AFC title game in either of the next two years. 2011 or 2012.
Click to expand...
Edited for clarity. ;) Basically they have to make the final 4 next year for the 2nd to become a 1st.

 
'KellysHeroes said:
Unless they take a mid 2nd it's not happening, Raiders are going to have to bite the bullet and pay bush. This time their going to have to use an RBBC
Click to expand...
Yes.If New England offers Oakland, Oakland's 2nd back and maybe a low 3rd or a 4th, this might get it done.Pure speculation on my part, but I think this borders "fair value" at this point.
 
NE has a glut of picks and a dearth of elite talent at RB. They could easily and justifiably give up a 1st or a 2nd and a 3rd (or maybe a 4th) for DMC. This type of scenario is exactly why Belichick hoards picks. If BB feels confident that DMC will fully recover from his busted wheel, I can easily see him giving up a bit of his 2012 draft hoard to get him.

Can you imagine a healthy McFadden on the Pats? Yikes!!!

 
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It's a slow week when we've gone two pages discussing a topic barely based on speculation.

 
'Raiderfan32904 said:
There are several scenarios with varying degrees of probability but given the fact veteran Raider reporter Steve Corkran states even with a new owner and GM things have neither declined nor improved but have remained "status quo" when it comes to the media leads most to believe Oakland will play their McFadden cards close to the vest.

Here are a few scenarios we think have a higher probability of becoming reality.

HE STAYS

Scenario one McFadden plays out his contract in Silver and Black.

Despite failing to complete and entire season in 4 yrs as a Pro ( McFadden missed the last 9 games of 2011 with a foot sprain some think is a Lisfranc injury) there is little doubt when healthy, Darren McFadden is the most complete, best running back in the National Football League.

On 6/5/2008 McFadden signed a six-year, $60 million contract. The deal contained $26 million guaranteed, including a $6.4 million "log" bonus and a second-year roster bonus of $5 million. In 2012 McFadden is slated to receive $5.65 million, in 2013 $5,856,250, and in 2014, becomes a Free Agent. That’s if he plays out this contract with Oakland.

If he stays maybe new HC Dennis Allen can find a way to keep the 6-2, 220 lb speedster healthier by say, not bashing him up the middle as much and getting him out in space.

Just sayin'.

HE GOES

New GM Reggie McKenzie did say at his opening presser that he "likes his picks" and openly lamented the trade for Carson Palmer that cost Oakland this year’s 1st rounder and a possible 2nd round conditional pick the next.

Some have speculated that McFadden could be McKenzie’s best bargaining chip to gaining more picks to play with in the draft. That’s assuming teams are willing to risk their picks on a back so often injured.

With a trend toward passing (9 teams threw for over 4,000 yards last season) and cheaper running backs McFadden may be a harder sell than some realize especially for multiple picks.

Current speculation has DMCs trade value based around a mid 20 in the 1st round.

If Reggie thinks he can find a talent like the once or twice in a generation McFadden with that mid 20 selection he’s still only getting another player as good as McFadden maybe and with a chance of an injury history too.

Staying with DMC seems like the best course of action at least through this year and by Gawd, people are going to see some matrix type stuff if Palmer and McFadden ever take the field together with Moore, Ford, Reece, Bey etc.

That’s right. We said IF...

HE RETIRES

Don't laugh.

Though McFadden was reportedly helping assistant coach RBs at this weekend’s Senior bowl there has been no green light or clean bill of health for the former Razorback since his injury.

We're simply saying, stranger things have happened.

If McFadden is unable to go again it leaves the Raiders in a lurch and calls in to question RB Michael Bush's status with the team.

If McKenzie is smart and wants to keep Bush (He should no matter what he does with McFadden) and McFadden’s off the table, Bush theoretically becomes more valuable and is more likely to receive the franchise tag.

Of course if McFadden can no longer play it makes his trade value null and void leaving Oakland in a lurch without trade bait or the all around best running back in the game.

One of these scenarios seems more plausible than the others and which one we think it is may surprise you.

Whatever happens we wish Darren McFadden all the best and hope the new powers that be in Oakland make the right call.
Click to expand...
This is an interesting perspective on McFadden's trade value from a Raiders blog. Pure speculation, but still as clear as mud.
Click to expand...
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 
'FavreCo said:
'az_prof said:
'Eastwood said:
A rusty Palmer who had no opportunity to learn the offense is still MUCH better than Campbell. I don't see how that is even debatable.
Click to expand...
He is not two first round picks better. He is marginally better. And Campbell adds the running dimension that Palmer lacks.
Click to expand...
Worked out well last season. Campbell + running = IR.
Click to expand...
And I guess pocket passing worked out great for Palmer in 2006 (playoff ACL) and 2008.
 
'CalBear said:
'cvnpoka said:
lol passer rating

also, int rate is notoriously fluky, as you should be aware as an active member of this community. http://subscribers.f..._qbintrates.php

http://www.pro-footb...om/blog/?p=6068
Click to expand...
INT rates are fluky, passer rating is fluky, losses are fluky. What evidence is there that isn't fluky? Dude, Palmer just isn't a great QB at this point in his career. Like I said, he has not had a good season since 2006; he certainly didn't have one in 2010 or 2011.
Click to expand...
you are being intentionally dense? some metrics correlate well with their future. int rate doesnt. i guess reread the articles?anyway, who is saying palmer is a great qb? hes much better than campbell largely bc he gives the raiders a downfield dimension.

 
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