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DB Tiers (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jene Bramel
- Start date
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Added. Thanks.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
Did you forget Dejon Gomes or did he drop out of your rankings?
Kinger
Footballguy
At this point, Madieu Williams (FS) and Brandon Meriweather (SS) look like the early leaders in the race to start. With Reed Doughty, Tanard Jackson, and Gomes all getting some time, any one guy may have difficulty getting enough snaps to really matter. The Skins safety situation may be a better NFL group than FF group. We may need to see what it looks like in late preseason before there is a clear favorite.
Bronx Bomber
Footballguy
Good to know, thanks. Just dropped him for Taylor Mays.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
you don't seem very excited about verner or terrell thomas.
also, should we expect brandon taylor to start over atari bigby, and if so, where does that slot him on your list, maybe in comparison to barron, for example?
I see he's on the sleeper watch.
also, should we expect brandon taylor to start over atari bigby, and if so, where does that slot him on your list, maybe in comparison to barron, for example?
I see he's on the sleeper watch.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Listing a cornerback in these tiers actually means I like them. There's such a deep glut of replacement level corners that those on my draftable list are guys I think have CB1 potential.I think Taylor starts, but his surrounding cast is strong enough that I wouldn't reach for him in the draft until he's named the starter. There's DB2 potential there, but he's not close to Barron's range.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
ohhhh....the reason I commented was t thomas and verner only made the draftable in cb mandatory leagues -- I would think those guys might stack well against safeties, if things break right for them, like a woodson or tillman type value, maybe.
but the flipside is thomas is coming back off that acl, and I don't know if he'll be on the same side of the field.
verner put up a good year, but as a rookie opposite a top corner.
barron's so exposed I'm afraid he'll be overdrafted for a rookie in redraft, so I was trying to sneak an alternative.
wasn't the majority of weddle's damage at ss, and he'd be moving back to fs, or do I have all that mixed up?
edit: if I could squeeze another question in .......
have we established bell as box safety and landry as fs for the jets?
there's no way bell is fs, right?
more edits:
I was looking at the top tackling rookie safeties over at pro-football-reference, and it looks like 7 of the top 10 were in 1988-1990 -- what's up with that?
although, they have tj ward down for 80, and elsewhere it looks like 95.
how do you compare barron to tj coming out of school?
but the flipside is thomas is coming back off that acl, and I don't know if he'll be on the same side of the field.
verner put up a good year, but as a rookie opposite a top corner.
barron's so exposed I'm afraid he'll be overdrafted for a rookie in redraft, so I was trying to sneak an alternative.
wasn't the majority of weddle's damage at ss, and he'd be moving back to fs, or do I have all that mixed up?
edit: if I could squeeze another question in .......
have we established bell as box safety and landry as fs for the jets?
there's no way bell is fs, right?
more edits:
I was looking at the top tackling rookie safeties over at pro-football-reference, and it looks like 7 of the top 10 were in 1988-1990 -- what's up with that?
although, they have tj ward down for 80, and elsewhere it looks like 95.
how do you compare barron to tj coming out of school?
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
ohhhh....the reason I commented was t thomas and verner only made the draftable in cb mandatory leagues -- I would think those guys might stack well against safeties, if things break right for them, like a woodson or tillman type value, maybe.
True. My general bias is not to draft upside CBs as my DB2 in redraft leagues. Others may feel differently and lump that group in a higher tier.
barron's so exposed I'm afraid he'll be overdrafted for a rookie in redraft, so I was trying to sneak an alternative.
Disappointing that he won't be more of a value, but I don't see a ready alternative yet.
wasn't the majority of weddle's damage at ss, and he'd be moving back to fs, or do I have all that mixed up?
Weddle has been used interchangably. Got a lot of in the box snaps for a FS.
edit: if I could squeeze another question in .......
have we established bell as box safety and landry as fs for the jets?
there's no way bell is fs, right?
Think it depends on how quickly they pick up the scheme and how healthy Landry is. I think the plan would be for Landry to play deep fairly often, but I think he'll get used like a TJ Ward or Roman Harper was in some packages, too. I very much doubt Bell gets used as a deep cover safety frequently.
True. My general bias is not to draft upside CBs as my DB2 in redraft leagues. Others may feel differently and lump that group in a higher tier.
barron's so exposed I'm afraid he'll be overdrafted for a rookie in redraft, so I was trying to sneak an alternative.
Disappointing that he won't be more of a value, but I don't see a ready alternative yet.
wasn't the majority of weddle's damage at ss, and he'd be moving back to fs, or do I have all that mixed up?
Weddle has been used interchangably. Got a lot of in the box snaps for a FS.
edit: if I could squeeze another question in .......
have we established bell as box safety and landry as fs for the jets?
there's no way bell is fs, right?
Think it depends on how quickly they pick up the scheme and how healthy Landry is. I think the plan would be for Landry to play deep fairly often, but I think he'll get used like a TJ Ward or Roman Harper was in some packages, too. I very much doubt Bell gets used as a deep cover safety frequently.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I was looking at the top tackling rookie safeties over at pro-football-reference, and it looks like 7 of the top 10 were in 1988-1990 -- what's up with that?
although, they have tj ward down for 80, and elsewhere it looks like 95.
I'd have to check, but I think the teams themselves were still recording tackles through 1992 or so. The numbers were crazy back then.
how do you compare barron to tj coming out of school?
Ward projected better in coverage, about the same in run support. Many felt Ward was a better FS fit in the long term despite his physical play. Some of Barron's high draft slot was supply and demand this year, I would guess they had similar grades, even taking into account the differences in expected skill set.
although, they have tj ward down for 80, and elsewhere it looks like 95.
I'd have to check, but I think the teams themselves were still recording tackles through 1992 or so. The numbers were crazy back then.
how do you compare barron to tj coming out of school?
Ward projected better in coverage, about the same in run support. Many felt Ward was a better FS fit in the long term despite his physical play. Some of Barron's high draft slot was supply and demand this year, I would guess they had similar grades, even taking into account the differences in expected skill set.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
The league and the teams both did it. League numbers were fine.
Team numbers, which unfortunately were used by the media all-too-often, were indeed very crazy back then.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Seems like all the STATS, Inc yearbooks I have from back then listed the team numbers. I need to pull those back out. Fun to flip through.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
If he looks healthy and in a role that puts him around the box as much as in deep coverage, I'll probably have him in the near elite tier.'Tick said:
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
yeah, but even if the jets play interchangeable safeties --- if they use one of them in deep coverage it's gotta be landry, right?
if they play all this 46, won't landry be the 'one' in a cover one?
I thought landry had great potential until they signed bell, who you'd think would go right back in the box for sparano, even if nolan's not around.
if they play all this 46, won't landry be the 'one' in a cover one?
I thought landry had great potential until they signed bell, who you'd think would go right back in the box for sparano, even if nolan's not around.
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Agreed. I think Landry gets the majority of deep snaps. But neither Ryan is shy about putting the more dynamic safety in the box for run and pass blitzing opportunities in base and subpackages. We saw that from TJ Ward frequently in CLE. Rex wouldn't have done that with Ed Reed but he was a different player. With Revis there and knowing the frequency in which he's used overload blitz concepts in NY, I think there's a chance that Landry could top 65 solos with above average big play numbers. I think he is a more sudden and athletic player than Bell when healthy.Near elite is a ceiling projection, though. It'd take quite a bit for me to be comfortable with him there. I don't even have him tiered now.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'm curious as to why people think Landry would be a good FS option. He hasn't been great in coverage since adding weight (starting a few years ago), and now that he's coming off of two seasons of leg ailments, I'm hard-pressed to consider him anything other than a liability as a FS. What might I be missing?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
what you're missing is the choices they have.
I don't think people suggest landry for fs because of his great coverage, but rather that he's the lesser of the evils.
yeremiah bell is your alternative.
incumbent, eric smith, was widely ripped last year, and has apparently been bumped down to part timer.
there was talk about moving cro to that spot, but I think that was probably idle speculation.
and then you have some late round rookie(s).
I don't think people suggest landry for fs because of his great coverage, but rather that he's the lesser of the evils.
yeremiah bell is your alternative.
incumbent, eric smith, was widely ripped last year, and has apparently been bumped down to part timer.
there was talk about moving cro to that spot, but I think that was probably idle speculation.
and then you have some late round rookie(s).
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Jene Bramel
Footballguy
He won't be an elite FS. He wasn't much above average in Washington either.In NY, he will be able to cheat away from Revis' half often and be more of a bracket coverage player and sometimes Robber even in those situations than true center fielder. I doubt he'll be asked to take any man coverage responsibilities either. As KaL notes, the alternatives aren't great either. Yeremiah Bell could be used interchangeably, but the half step he's lost costs him mostly in coverage. The two rookies, Josh Bush and Antonio Allen, are interesting names to watch but neither are immediate threats. Bush played corner early in his college career and might be a long term option. Allen will have to earn snaps as an in the box safety. He has no chance in coverage.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
what's the word on jim leonhard --- is he still out there rehabbing as fa?
is it possible their scheme is just to pick him up towards the end of the summer and play a lot of big nickel, which worked well for the giants in the superbowl?
maybe all this teeth gnashing from the fans on their safety situation is premature.
is it possible their scheme is just to pick him up towards the end of the summer and play a lot of big nickel, which worked well for the giants in the superbowl?
maybe all this teeth gnashing from the fans on their safety situation is premature.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I guess if they can hide his deficiencies with the scheme he might do something, but having watched him in Washington, playing him at FS, for any reason, just seems doomed to failure. To me it makes about as much sense to play Landry at FS as it does to play Revis at MLB. That's just not what Landry can do anymore, and he does something else so much better (when healthy, which is another facet of Landry altogether; I have zero confidence in his ability to play a full 16 games). I would think a coach would want to put a player on the field in a position where they can play to their strengths. "Deep coverage" has been a (sometimes very glaring) weakness for Landry.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Who would be your choice - bush?
Tick
Footballguy
I have some questions about guys who aren't on the list... I know the list basically only goes 18 deep at safety, but other guys are worth rostering in deeper leagues, I would think, just to avoid a waiver wire race / auction battle for the emerging safeties during training camps.
Erik Coleman: if he wins the SS spot in preseason, where do you project him?
Chris Prosinski: he used to be on your watch lists... what made him fall off, or is he still on there, just lower than you listed here?
George Iloka / Robert Sands: I guess that with Mays on your watch list, you're saying he's most likely to be SS at this point?
Kerry Rhodes: Do you think he's just not going to get back to what he was a couple of years ago? (funny to see him and Coleman together on a list again)
Michael Huff: I'm not sure what to do with him. 8th two years ago, hurt last season... if he's healthy, what tier do you see him in?
Michael Mitchell: is there any future left for him? Two years doing nothing, Branch looking very good still, regime change in Oak.
Erik Coleman: if he wins the SS spot in preseason, where do you project him?
Chris Prosinski: he used to be on your watch lists... what made him fall off, or is he still on there, just lower than you listed here?
George Iloka / Robert Sands: I guess that with Mays on your watch list, you're saying he's most likely to be SS at this point?
Kerry Rhodes: Do you think he's just not going to get back to what he was a couple of years ago? (funny to see him and Coleman together on a list again)
Michael Huff: I'm not sure what to do with him. 8th two years ago, hurt last season... if he's healthy, what tier do you see him in?
Michael Mitchell: is there any future left for him? Two years doing nothing, Branch looking very good still, regime change in Oak.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Erik Coleman: if he wins the SS spot in preseason, where do you project him?
I doubt I'd be willing to put him in the high floor DB2 tier. Durability, the quality of linebackers and safeties around him, and a reasonably high probability that Spievey could reclaim the position would make him a week-to-week roster/start option.
Chris Prosinski: he used to be on your watch lists... what made him fall off, or is he still on there, just lower than you listed here?
He's still on a dynasty watch list. He doesn't make the later versions of these tiers because I think his chances of being named the starter on opening weekend are low. Jaiquawn Jarrett may suffer the same fate shortly.
George Iloka / Robert Sands: I guess that with Mays on your watch list, you're saying he's most likely to be SS at this point?
I think the coaches hope that Mays plays well enough to win the job. I think Iloka has a chance, though. In the end, it won't be surprising if that position ends up being a base-subpackage platoon. I like the upside behind that linebacker group just enough to keep Mays on the list, though.
Kerry Rhodes: Do you think he's just not going to get back to what he was a couple of years ago? (funny to see him and Coleman together on a list again)
Rhodes had a pretty good year last year, but so did -- quietly -- Adrian Wilson. I don't think Rhodes will see enough snaps around the box to reliably compete with Daryl Washington and Wilson for tackles. Consider him an OJ Atogwe / Jairus Byrd type -- they may run off a couple of very good seasons, but volatility will always be a concern.
Michael Huff: I'm not sure what to do with him. 8th two years ago, hurt last season... if he's healthy, what tier do you see him in?
Michael Mitchell: is there any future left for him? Two years doing nothing, Branch looking very good still, regime change in Oak.
Branch has even more value this year in the scheme Dennis Allen will likely run. Huff's coverage ability makes him very interesting, though. Antrel Rolle and Malcolm Jenkins are reasonable comps if things break well for him. The relatively poor linebacker play is compelling, too. I might be arguing myself into watching Huff more closely this preseason than originally expected. Mitchell's perceived value was driven by the Raiders' single high safety scheme (which would have had Mitchell in the box often) and his second round draft pedigree (which suggested he'd eventually get an opportunity to play every down). Well into his career now and having not proven himself as more than a subpackage option, it's hard to hope for that opportunity now. Regime change could work either way for him, but I think Branch is entrenched where he is now. I doubt Mitchell forces himself into this discussion again without an injury to a starter.
I doubt I'd be willing to put him in the high floor DB2 tier. Durability, the quality of linebackers and safeties around him, and a reasonably high probability that Spievey could reclaim the position would make him a week-to-week roster/start option.
Chris Prosinski: he used to be on your watch lists... what made him fall off, or is he still on there, just lower than you listed here?
He's still on a dynasty watch list. He doesn't make the later versions of these tiers because I think his chances of being named the starter on opening weekend are low. Jaiquawn Jarrett may suffer the same fate shortly.
George Iloka / Robert Sands: I guess that with Mays on your watch list, you're saying he's most likely to be SS at this point?
I think the coaches hope that Mays plays well enough to win the job. I think Iloka has a chance, though. In the end, it won't be surprising if that position ends up being a base-subpackage platoon. I like the upside behind that linebacker group just enough to keep Mays on the list, though.
Kerry Rhodes: Do you think he's just not going to get back to what he was a couple of years ago? (funny to see him and Coleman together on a list again)
Rhodes had a pretty good year last year, but so did -- quietly -- Adrian Wilson. I don't think Rhodes will see enough snaps around the box to reliably compete with Daryl Washington and Wilson for tackles. Consider him an OJ Atogwe / Jairus Byrd type -- they may run off a couple of very good seasons, but volatility will always be a concern.
Michael Huff: I'm not sure what to do with him. 8th two years ago, hurt last season... if he's healthy, what tier do you see him in?
Michael Mitchell: is there any future left for him? Two years doing nothing, Branch looking very good still, regime change in Oak.
Branch has even more value this year in the scheme Dennis Allen will likely run. Huff's coverage ability makes him very interesting, though. Antrel Rolle and Malcolm Jenkins are reasonable comps if things break well for him. The relatively poor linebacker play is compelling, too. I might be arguing myself into watching Huff more closely this preseason than originally expected. Mitchell's perceived value was driven by the Raiders' single high safety scheme (which would have had Mitchell in the box often) and his second round draft pedigree (which suggested he'd eventually get an opportunity to play every down). Well into his career now and having not proven himself as more than a subpackage option, it's hard to hope for that opportunity now. Regime change could work either way for him, but I think Branch is entrenched where he is now. I doubt Mitchell forces himself into this discussion again without an injury to a starter.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I have no idea. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that if there is no better "deep coverage safety" option on the roster or in FA than Landry, then the Jets are in bad, bad shape. That seems to be a glaring weakness that other teams (especially one like the Patriots) will abuse, nearly at will. And if that is Landry's role, I don't see him as roster-able in FF leagues.
SeanTaylor21
Footballguy
What are the thoughts on Quinton Carter?
It was originally believed that he would be in complete benefit of BD20 retiring, but I haven't seen too many positive things about him this offseason.
It was originally believed that he would be in complete benefit of BD20 retiring, but I haven't seen too many positive things about him this offseason.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
There are too many unresolved issues with Carter this offseason -- primarily his talent and progress as a player, the new coaching staff and scheme -- to feel comfortable recommending him as more than a flyer. Still, the depth chart sets up well for him to get another opportunity.'SeanTaylor21 said:
Therapist16
Footballguy
Already have berry, burnett and rolle looking to add a low risk player who could become at least a DB1? Who are 2 or 3 players who could be cheap to aquire but we could be looking at them next year as a DB1?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I'll tell you if I ever finish these last few rounds in Ratcliffe's idp mock.
Never know who's watching.....
edit:
I think any cheap player with db1 potential carries risk, that's why he's cheap.
in the past, winfield wouldn't come cheap, but in some of these ratcliffe idp mocks he's been going in the last couple rounds, or even undrafted.
maybe people are overlooking him because of age, or because he missed most of last year.
sounds like he might be bumping in to the slot in nickel, which sounds pretty productive for a guy like him.
Never know who's watching.....
edit:
I think any cheap player with db1 potential carries risk, that's why he's cheap.
in the past, winfield wouldn't come cheap, but in some of these ratcliffe idp mocks he's been going in the last couple rounds, or even undrafted.
maybe people are overlooking him because of age, or because he missed most of last year.
sounds like he might be bumping in to the slot in nickel, which sounds pretty productive for a guy like him.
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Shane Falco
Footballguy
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
CB2 unless he gets more in the box duty than expected.
bunnywafer
Footballguy
Any chance Greg Toler returns to glory? Was his monster 2010 a result of great playmaking on his part, or more that teams weren't throwing at DRC? Will Peterson demand the same level of not being thrown at?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Toler was not a good CB in 2010. He benefited from being picked on and parlayed his good run defense into a nice IDP season. Peterson had a rough start to 2011 but picked up his play as the season went on. If he takes another step and starts to take away another part of the field, the CB on the other side is looking at a big year. Toler's an option, but if he plays like he did in 2010 he may get replaced.'bunnywafer said:
Jene,
In CB-mandatory leagues, what about any of Cleveland's corners? I expect Haden to be avoided, but it seems like Dmitri Patterson is safe for a very high number of snaps on a defense that will be on the field a lot.
Assuming the Browns' offense improves its scoring to help with the run/pass ratio, are any of those corners rosterable in 12 team IDP leagues? I have to start two corners in many of mine and am constantly looking for viable corners since I prefer to spend on DE/LB/S and offense rather than using a much higher pick on someone like Patrick Peterson.
In CB-mandatory leagues, what about any of Cleveland's corners? I expect Haden to be avoided, but it seems like Dmitri Patterson is safe for a very high number of snaps on a defense that will be on the field a lot.
Assuming the Browns' offense improves its scoring to help with the run/pass ratio, are any of those corners rosterable in 12 team IDP leagues? I have to start two corners in many of mine and am constantly looking for viable corners since I prefer to spend on DE/LB/S and offense rather than using a much higher pick on someone like Patrick Peterson.
ninerfanatic492000
Footballguy
since verner is a starter and moving to cover the slot this year is he still behind McCourty in terms of fantasy production? and how does the loss of finnegan affect them both? McCourty was a 'fantasy' star last year and verner has shown the same fantasy potential in the past.
MAC_32
Footballguy
McCourty retains his former role, his value is unchanged. Verner gets more snaps, his value trends up. I think there's a chance Verner outproduces McCourty, but there's some Richard Marshall-esque risk here so I'd still take McCourty first.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Patterson is far from locked into an every down role and while Haden has shown flashes of being a shut down corner he hasn't done it consistently enough to warrant QB's avoiding him. Haden's the only one I'd bank on week one. Patterson's the only one among the rest (Sheldon and Skrine) I can see becoming a quality starter, but he has to supplant Sheldon (concerning he hasn't already) first.
You do not have to be a quality starter in order to be a quality fantasy DB. Just have to be good enough to stay on the field. Haden's potential 4 game suspension is in play too. Someone like Patterson seems to have a pretty high fantasy ceiling for this year.'MAC_32 said:
MAC_32
Footballguy
I get that, but before Haden's failed test my point was Patterson wasn't slated for every down duty. For some strange reason the staff still prefers Sheldon in that role. If Haden's out as it looks to be that changes things.
Tenacious
Footballguy
Kurt Coleman won the starting job as expected. Bump?
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Anyone bumping TJ Ward because of all of Cleveland's problems at LBer?
cr8f
Footballguy
Still no word on Packers dbs. They plan on playing less base and last year played is 25% of the time so could be worthy of a pick, but they haven't give out a depth chart yet.
They started with Bush as the 2nd CB and Jennings at safety when Woodson goes to the slot. If McMillan gets the SS even with Woodson at base this year he could be good.
They started with Bush as the 2nd CB and Jennings at safety when Woodson goes to the slot. If McMillan gets the SS even with Woodson at base this year he could be good.
tommyk7
Footballguy
Through 6 weeks here are the top (solo) tackling safeties:
George Wilson 34
Atari Bigby 34
Bernard Pollard 33
Kam Chancellor 33
Yeremiah Bell 32
Rahim Moore 32
Kurt Coleman 32
Anrel Rolle 32
Roman Harper 31
William Moore 31
Madieu Williams 30
Reggie Nelson 30
Craig Dahl 30
Jordan Babineaux 29
Tyvon Branch 29
Mike Adams 28
Mark Barron 28
T.J. Ward 27
Malcolm Jenkins 27
Eric Weddle 27
Nate Allen 26
Michael Griffin 26
Glover Quin 26
Reshad Jones 25
Thomas DeCoud 25
Ryan Clark 25
Morgan Burnett 25
Dawan Landry 25
Chris Clemons 25
LaRon Landry 25
Quentin Mikell 25
George Wilson 34
Atari Bigby 34
Bernard Pollard 33
Kam Chancellor 33
Yeremiah Bell 32
Rahim Moore 32
Kurt Coleman 32
Anrel Rolle 32
Roman Harper 31
William Moore 31
Madieu Williams 30
Reggie Nelson 30
Craig Dahl 30
Jordan Babineaux 29
Tyvon Branch 29
Mike Adams 28
Mark Barron 28
T.J. Ward 27
Malcolm Jenkins 27
Eric Weddle 27
Nate Allen 26
Michael Griffin 26
Glover Quin 26
Reshad Jones 25
Thomas DeCoud 25
Ryan Clark 25
Morgan Burnett 25
Dawan Landry 25
Chris Clemons 25
LaRon Landry 25
Quentin Mikell 25
