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Indefinite Tampa Bay Bucs thread: Somehow not on the list of teams to never have won a Super Bowl (4 Viewers)

ShamrockPride said:
RBM said:
ShamrockPride said:
The way I see it is this. Like others have said, Lovie will only take you so far. He can get you into the playoffs. That's about it. Winston in another year or 2 by himself will be getting this team into the playoffs. Like I have said, anybody with common sense will give any credit for the successful offense on Winston and Koetter, not Lovie. Lovie is a defensive coach. Lovie ' defense was still getting their a## handed to them nearly every week this season. If the calling card of a coach is defense, and he's still not efficient at that, time to go. Relationships in football are great, but results should be the only thing that matter. Ask the 49ers about that.
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So in your opinion teams should just have an offensive coach and a defensive coach, but no head coach?
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Lovie has always been billed as a defensive guru. Our defense was awful. He provides no help on the offensive end, where Tampa actually was good. I can support hiring Koetter. But get a guy with you know, a modern defensive scheme on defense. Scheme ws half of Lovie's problem. He was unwilling to evolve, and he rightfully got left behind.
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The team he took over was absolute garbage. They used 12/13 draft picks on offense, and the one defensive player they did draft turned out to be pretty good. What would the D look like if Lovie got 12 draft picks? The scheme isn't the problem, they didn't even run the cover-2 half the time. The personnel is the problem. There isn't a single guy in the secondary that is worth a crap.

Blame bad fa signings, lack of addressing the defense in the draft, lack of discipline, but let's not blame the defensive scheme because the players are incapable of executing it.

 
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You can blame all those things and then some.

Schefter:

A hint Dirk Koetter is favorite to become Bucs next HC: 49ers requested permission to interview him Tuesday, still haven’t gotten an answer.
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Seems clear they are going to promote Koetter from the fact gathering. If a team calls to interview your top assistant and then you fire the current HC, have to believe he is getting a promotion quickly.

Have we seen this in the NFL as of late? Any track record for this working out? I'm curious more than trying to rush to judge here.

 
The story on the phone firing is that it wasn't intended, they called him "I assume to set up the face to face, and he decided it wasn't necessary.

So, let me clarify my stance on firing someone.

Not ok,

-saying nothing, and having player/coach employee find out through news

-texting

-email

-twitter

Ok,

-calling

-face time

-snapchat

 
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Now we know why Lovie staffed 2 of his sons on defense. If you hire too many people you don't trust they might stab you in the back and take your job.

The Glaziers are such p******. All it takes is someone to have a little interest in one of their assistants and they make a drastic decision.

I'm sure they did their "research" and conducted interviews with current coaches and current players, just like they did when they fired Gruden. I presume they spoke with Michael Clayton, Raheem Morris, and Mark Dominick that year.

Let me guess who they interviewed this year, Dirk Koetter, Jason Licht, Hardy Nickerson, Joe Cullen, and anyone else who stands to benefit from Lovie gone.

See a trend. They get their intel off of whims, and from people who stand to benefit from firings.

0 LOYALTIES GIVEN.

Koetter should decline the position out of respect for Lovie, and go to a team where the owners aren't unprofessional losing p*****.

 
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I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage

 
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ShamrockPride said:
RBM said:
ShamrockPride said:
The way I see it is this. Like others have said, Lovie will only take you so far. He can get you into the playoffs. That's about it. Winston in another year or 2 by himself will be getting this team into the playoffs. Like I have said, anybody with common sense will give any credit for the successful offense on Winston and Koetter, not Lovie. Lovie is a defensive coach. Lovie ' defense was still getting their a## handed to them nearly every week this season. If the calling card of a coach is defense, and he's still not efficient at that, time to go. Relationships in football are great, but results should be the only thing that matter. Ask the 49ers about that.
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So in your opinion teams should just have an offensive coach and a defensive coach, but no head coach?
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What? Get a coach who is good at what he specializes in. Simple concept. Lovie has always been billed as a defensive guru. Our defense was awful. He provides no help on the offensive end, where Tampa actually was good. I can support hiring Koetter. But get a guy with you know, a modern defensive scheme on defense. Scheme ws half of Lovie's problem. He was unwilling to evolve, and he rightfully got left behind.
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Wow. This is wrong on so many levels.
 
Ministry of Pain said:
Seems clear they are going to promote Koetter from the fact gathering. If a team calls to interview your top assistant and then you fire the current HC, have to believe he is getting a promotion quickly.

Have we seen this in the NFL as of late? Any track record for this working out? I'm curious more than trying to rush to judge here.
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They have no option. This is how it works in the NFL. You do something big, you are getting promoted either by another team taking you or internally. In order to keep Koetter, they had to fire Lovie or lose Koetter.

For instance, if Shanahan turns Matt Ryan around next year, it is a GUARANTEE he takes a HC job. He was hoping to be getting HC interviews this year but he actually sucks hard at being an OC.

 
Capella said:
Quez said:
Capella said:
Quez said:
Capella said:
They fired Lovie over the phone. Christ. :no:
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At least they gave him a call & he didn't read it on his twitter feed.A face 2 face would of been unnecessary. A call is fine imo.
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A call is never ever ever fine to fire anybody. Are you serious?
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Considering the way they didn't notify Dungy, I think this is acceptable in today's day and age.If I was a HC I would rather get s call than have to go in and do the walk of shame.

Just getting notified of a sit down with the Glaziers & Licht would of been basically finding out you are getting fired anyways.

Players find out they get traded, cut, etc. through the news all the time.
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So they did dungy wrong and that makes this ok? Afaik every player getting cut gets a sit down with somebody first.

I'm taking it you have absolutely never fired anybody before. If my boss told me to can somebody over the phone I would laugh in his face.
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This is a very admirable approach and how it should be done.
 
ShamrockPride said:
The way I see it is this. Like others have said, Lovie will only take you so far. He can get you into the playoffs. That's about it. Winston in another year or 2 by himself will be getting this team into the playoffs. Like I have said, anybody with common sense will give any credit for the successful offense on Winston and Koetter, not Lovie. Lovie is a defensive coach. Lovie ' defense was still getting their a## handed to them nearly every week this season. If the calling card of a coach is defense, and he's still not efficient at that, time to go. Relationships in football are great, but results should be the only thing that matter. Ask the 49ers about that.
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BUZZ!
 
flapgreen said:
I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage
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Oh, they are going to lose. The schedule gets harder next season. Instead of the AFC South and NFC North, its the AFC West & the NFC West. Much tougher D's.

 
I'm not a huge Lovie fan, but I think he did enough with the pile of garbage roster he inherited from Mark Dominick to get 1 more year.

I'm not a fan of the inconsistency at the HC position.

I'm definitely not a fan of the sneaky way they go about promoting from within.

So if Koetter brings in Schwartz or Mike Smith & we draft 2years heavy on defense, and the defense turns around, then do we fire Koetter and promote them?

Licht didn't want to be a paper lion anymore. Lovie built the foundation, and now he is going to be there to take the credit.

 
Quez said:
The story on the phone firing is that it wasn't intended, they called him "I assume to set up the face to face, and he decided it wasn't necessary.

So, let me clarify my stance on firing someone.

Not ok,

-saying nothing, and having player/coach employee find out through news

-texting

-email

-twitter

Ok,

-calling

-face time

-snapchat
Click to expand...
That's interesting, Lovie was set to get a little R&R for a week or two and they wanted him to come in, he's no dummy so he just asked them to lay it on him. Good for SMith not wasting a moment, something tells me he had a feeling or knew something was up anyways.

I wish nothing but the best for him, I will always be a Lovie fan, think highly of him as a human being. His work in TB under Tony Dungy should not be discounted either.

He was making $5M a year, probably had at least 1-2 years left, Lovie will be fine and land on his feet quickly. I don't even think Smith if off his feet at the moment. I would kick the tires if I were the Phins...

 
I've canned a few over the phone...just saying. I would not with someone like Smith's demeanor but sometimes it is better to just have a check ready along with a pink slip.

 
Grahamburn said:
flapgreen said:
I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage
Click to expand...
We're talking about the NFL here.

The Bucs lost to these QB's in 2015:

Marcus Mariota

Ryan Mallett

Kirk Cousins (24 point lead)

Matt Hasselbeck

Case Keenum

Yeah, let's retain the defensive guru who can't figure out how to stop these guys.
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I don't see how anyone could have expected a drastic defensive improvement by only drafting 1 defensive player in 2 seasons. I guess he should have said screw the offense kept Glennon at QB, and gone all D. Then he just would of been a bad head coach, but still a defensive guru.

They did make a run at Hardy. Whether that would of been a good move or not, they were all well aware of the massive void at DE. Then Jaque Smith got hurt. What did they expect?

I thought the D did pretty well at times considering what we had.

 
Quez said:
Grahamburn said:
flapgreen said:
I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage
Click to expand...
We're talking about the NFL here.

The Bucs lost to these QB's in 2015:

Marcus Mariota

Ryan Mallett

Kirk Cousins (24 point lead)

Matt Hasselbeck

Case Keenum

Yeah, let's retain the defensive guru who can't figure out how to stop these guys.
Click to expand...
I don't see how anyone could have expected a drastic defensive improvement by only drafting 1 defensive player in 2 seasons. I guess he should have said screw the offense kept Glennon at QB, and gone all D. Then he just would of been a bad head coach, but still a defensive guru.

They did make a run at Hardy. Whether that would of been a good move or not, they were all well aware of the massive void at DE. Then Jaque Smith got hurt. What did they expect?

I thought the D did pretty well at times considering what we had.
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We're just going round and round at this point, but the fact his defense couldn't stop those guys, they continued to get gashed by the exact same types of plays week in and week out, the penalties, the lack of adjustments, no game planning, etc., and being faced with either losing Koetter or keeping Lovie made the decision rather easy.

I probably would have fired him simply for deferring the damn kickoff every freaking week. Maybe see if your offense can go get the lead to start the game once in a while? The guy clearly didn't realize his defense was garbage and he needed to try something else. He was too stubborn or too stupid to do it.

 
-Thanks Lovie

-Likes Koetter, he is a strong candidate

-No candidates have been talked to

-Glaziers told Jason Licht to set up meeting to fire Lovie, Lovie spoke with Jason who out of respect for Lovie told him he didn't think the news was going to be good, Lovie told Jason to have Joel call him and said it wouldn't be necessary to go in hat he preferred to just take news over phone

-Glaziers not there at meeting, when asked Licht said they have chosen him to become the face of football operations

 
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The plus here (if Kotter is hired as HC) is that the offensive system will stay in place, so at least Winston will be going into his second season in the same system instead of having to start with a new one. Koetter and Winston already have a great relationship, so there will be no getting-to-know-you phase.

 
Chris Landry:

I admit that I was shocked this evening when I got a strange text message while doing a live Football TV show. It was that Lovie Smith was going to be fired in Tampa.

It took a while (until I got off the air) to uncover some news on the matter and here is what I have learned.

While the Glazer family ownership has been disappointed in the play of the defense, it did not appear that any forced staff changes on the defensive side were being placed on Lovie Smith. However, General Manager Jason Licht has supported ownerships beliefs in the need for defensive staff changes.

Understandably the Glazers’ are more encouraged and feel their future is with their bright young quarterback and his mentor, offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter. Koetter has not only done a tremendous job with Jameis Winston this year but I can tell you first hand that the Atlanta Falcons and quarterback Matt Ryan dearly miss Koetter in their camp. He is rapidly gaining a stronger reputation by the day for his work with young quarterbacks thus making him a hot commodity in coaching circles.

I was on with “The Big Dog” Steve Duemig today on his show on WDAE in Tampa and we talked about how much Dirk Koetter was getting recognized around the league for his work with Winston. I mentioned to Steve on air that while I thought Koetter was in play for a few jobs, he was on the second tier.

What I did not learn until this evening is how much progress he was apparently making within the Miami Dolphins organization. Being involved in lots of coaching search work, it’s important to take information, verify it and then try to put it together like a puzzle. The Dolphins told me that they have been hot on Koetter and felt they were making good progress. In their words, Koetter strangely began backing away from the job on Monday to the point that the Dolphins began making a strong push to get a deal done with Bears offensive coordinator Adam Gase before he heads up to Philadelphia for his second interview. I had been under the impression that Gase was the Dolphins first choice but I was told tonight that he is their second—and that Koetter was their first. This explains the rush to try and secure a deal for Gase or else they would lose out on their first two options.

I am told that with this information in hand, Buccaneers General Manager Jason Licht began making a strong play with ownership to keep the offensive show going by removing Smith and replacing him with Koetter. A promotion for Koetter and roster control for Licht. Of course, ownership did not need convincing as I have stated their concern over the defense combined with their excitement over the direction of the offense. So, it was just a matter of Licht reaffirming ownerships thoughts on this matter.

Why the weird timing? Again, it appears the threat of losing Dirk Koetter became a greater threat Tuesday and Wednesday than it was on Monday. Coaching searches and information regarding them move swiftly in this league.

There has already been quite a backlash from the Bucs roster, especially from the defensive side. League backlash, less relevant to the Bucs ownership, has been quite harsh as well. But, nothing to cause the Glazers to back out of moving forward with Koetter I am told. You don’t make the move on Smith without having the plan already worked out.

It’s important to note that the Buccaneers will still be required to go through the interview process and comply with the Rooney rule so it is vitally important that they steer the conversation away from the succession plan of Koetter until all requirements are met.

And, then the Koetter plan will be unfolded for public consumption. Not before. During this process, could the Glazer’s change their mind and reverse course in the direction of another candidate and/or could Koetter entertain other options? Yes. Stranger things have happened in the coaching search world.

There are no apparent legs to the rumors of the likes of Chip Kelly or Tom Coughlin or anything along those lines. Of course the Glazers were smitten by Chip Kelly during the interview process back when they ultimately hired Greg Schiano but there are no signs that this move has them pointing in his direction nor in the direction of Tom Coughlin. It is certainly not the direction that Jason Licht would like for ownership to look as Kelly or Coughlin would not be interested in working under Licht as they would bring in their own personnel guy much like Lovie Smith brought in Licht just a short two years ago. And, I don’t think the Glazers feel a house cleaning is in order. In their eyes, just a slight remodel.

So, while all signs point to Dirk Koetter at this point, the Glazers as always have the final call. And, after their recent run of the past several years in the coaching search business, a strong guess is all I can come up with at this time.
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So we fired our head coach because the Dolphins really wanted Dirk Koetter. Great idea seeing how they are a stable organization we strive to be like.

Advice for Dirk Koetter:

-draft offensive players

-don't hire any good coordinators that could outshine you

Laquan Treadwell anyone?

 
More good news out of this is that Verner should get a fair shot. Guy was an all-pro corner until he ended up in Lovie's funhouse.

 
Grahamburn said:
flapgreen said:
I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage
Click to expand...
We're talking about the NFL here.

The Bucs lost to these QB's in 2015:

Marcus Mariota

Ryan Mallett

Kirk Cousins (24 point lead)

Matt Hasselbeck

Case Keenum

Yeah, let's retain the defensive guru who can't figure out how to stop these guys.
Click to expand...
Sounds simple when you state it like the guy on couch at home.
 
Fire your coach because you're not happy with the results. Promote the OC because you were scared he might be hired off to another horrible organization. Recipe for success there. I'm sure that will be copied throughout the league now.

 
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In terms of the team's chances to win next year Koetter > Lovie. It's not like Lovie was going to be getting calls from around the league for job offers -- even if that were possible/the norm. You can talk about the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball, but the coaching was also horrendous.

 
flapgreen said:
Grahamburn said:
flapgreen said:
I'm gonna laugh while watching this franchise keep losing. Disloyal garbage
Click to expand...
We're talking about the NFL here.

The Bucs lost to these QB's in 2015:

Marcus Mariota

Ryan Mallett

Kirk Cousins (24 point lead)

Matt Hasselbeck

Case Keenum

Yeah, let's retain the defensive guru who can't figure out how to stop these guys.
Click to expand...
Sounds simple when you state it like the guy on couch at home.
Click to expand...
It is simple.

Lovie had two sons and a bunch of retread losers from previous coaching failures on his staff running an out-dated system that was DEAD LAST in completion percentage against. I imagine during end of season meetings it was suggested to him, or asked of him, what the plan was to improve the defense, and hiring "new/different/better qualified" coaches wasn't the answer, so Licht/Glazers decided he wasn't the guy.

And I'm in a fancy leather desk chair.

 
The Glazers did ask Lovie what his plan was for the defense, and he said he was going to bring in a consultant that worked for him with the Bears. :lmao:

That's when the Glazers pulled the rip cord.

 
Heard Stroud on 620 this morning mention Lovie was open to bringing in a "consultant," but was told that off the record and wasn't going to reveal who the consultant was. His exact words were, "you wouldn't be impressed."

 
It seems pretty easy to me. With the outside interest in Koetter, the team felt they had to choose for the next several years between Koetter and Lovie. Given what they had seen every day from both, they believe they'll have a more successful future with Koetter. If you think this, do you stay with Lovie and lose Koetter out of 'loyalty'? I think you do what you believe is best for the team's future. They may be wrong, but I would rather have them choosing what they think is best going forward. It is a tough and competitive business. Lovie has money and money coming. I football people disagree and think he is a better head coach than the other 32, he's quite likely available.

 
Dumb a** owners love wasting all the $$$ their dad left them. These are the same owners that had more assistant coaches than any team in the league when Schiano was here. When will they learn that paying for consultants, and big name assistants won't make their crappy players better.

Here is some free consulting Joel. Get some DBs and DEs that are worth a crap.

 
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Rockstar GM with an interesting tweet today,

I still think Koetter is Bucs next HC, there's one name that could trump him for the job. Trouble is, his teams season isn't over...just yet
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I doubt it's McDaniels, maybe McDermott, or a college coach?

Glaziers are nuts, I could easily see them paying 7-8 mil per year of their inheritance to Saban.

 
I know I had said before that firing Lovie only made sense if Koetter was the hire, but now that the dust has settled on his dismissal I just want them to get a great/progressive thinking head coach. If they felt like Lovie wasn't the guy it was way better to fire him too soon rather than too late. If he (Jameis, really) had taken this team to a 9-7 or 10-6 record next year Lovie would have been pretty insulated in his position. If Licht and the Glazers don't think he's the guy to get the team to an eventual Super Bowl they have to go in a different direction.

I still think it will be Koetter eventually, and assuming the players already have his respect he would be the best hire to ensure continuity. They're able to leave the offense alone and completely overhaul an atrocious defense with new coaches, free agency, and premium picks.

If they hire someone else they're starting from scratch. Again.

 
Who knows what they Glaziers want...

Gruden had fallen out of favor with some in the locker room, so they hired a "players coach in Raheem". That was a disaster, so they went to the opposite end of the spectrum with the disciplinarian Schiano. Then they were done with the inexperienced head coaches, and found the established Lovie.

What do they want now?

 
Grahamburn said:
I'm hoping what Jason Licht is saying is true and they've entrusted the decision solely to him. :shrug:
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I'm not buying that at all. I clearly remember Joel saying how heavily ownership was involved in the coaching search process. They made it seem like they were very hands on owners. Then again, that was after the popular decision to fire Schiano. Now we have a move that has the fans split, and they are nowhere to be seen.

If this turns out to be a bad move guess who is going to take the fall?

 
They were talking about Saban returning to the NFL on the local radio. They were saying if he feels like he still has something to prove, then now would be the time to jump. His coaching window is closing at age 64. Coaches don't coach past 70, so he has +/- six more seasons.

He has also said that he wanted Drew Breese over Culpeper, and could still be coaching if he had his guy.

I remember hearing that when he said it, and it definitely made me cast him in a different light. This is very similar to Lane's story at Oakland. Al Davis forced his hand in drafting Jamarcus.

 
Sabans not coming to the NFL...the Bucs are just the latest team to have the idea of feeling him out snowball to rumors like this.

 
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