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Fennis

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Been reading about the NHL possibility for a while now. Really hoping it goes through. Paul Allen was on the verge of buying the Penguins and moving them to Portland, IIRC, before Mario stepped in. I'd love to be able to go see a Seattle NHL game while I'm up there for my near-yearly Seahawks game. Phoenix still having a team is an utter joke with all the BS that Bobble Head Bettman spews about keeping teams (apparently only ones the NHL owns and doesn't feel like they make enough profit) where they are. Guess what he said about Phoenix didn't apply to Atlanta. Hope they get a team up there, and soon.

As for NBA, couldn't care less.

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some potential NHL options:

Coyotes

Panthers

Islanders

Columbus

Stars (?)

I've always thought Seattle (or Portland) would make a great fit thanks to the natural geographical rivalry with the Western Canada and California teams. Seattle needs an arena. Not sure how much the fans would be in to it but they sure do love their soccer.

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some potential NHL options:CoyotesPanthersIslandersColumbusStars (?)I've always thought Seattle (or Portland) would make a great fit thanks to the natural geographical rivalry with the Western Canada and California teams. Seattle needs an arena. Not sure how much the fans would be in to it but they sure do love their soccer.

Another NHL team in the west makes sense. I think the Phoenix situation will likely be solved before Seattle is ready for them.

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Damn, and the Coyotes to Seattle would have caused the least divisional cluster####ery of the likely NHL teams to move.

Edit: Maybe not. If the Isles or Panthers go West, both Detroit AND Columbus can go East with Winnipeg.

Edited by Brady Marino

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some potential NHL options:

Coyotes

Panthers

Islanders

Columbus

Stars (?)

I've always thought Seattle (or Portland) would make a great fit thanks to the natural geographical rivalry with the Western Canada and California teams. Seattle needs an arena. Not sure how much the fans would be in to it but they sure do love their soccer.

I think Mark Cuban would swoop in before letting the Stars leave Dallas. They tie in too well with the Mavericks and the American Airlines Center.

I'm really surprised he hasn't bought them already and just own both big tenants of the AAC.

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
Yes, that is what is so promising about the funding aspects. The city is on the hook for a low interest loan, but it must be paid back with revenue raised from the new facility. If it isnt paid back, the arena operator is on the hook for the difference. The arena is also responsible for all overages. Seattle voted down both the baseball and football stadiums and upgrades to Key Arena. The people of Seattle are not going to raise taxes, for a stadium deal. This deal is structured not to raise taxes or put the taxpayers at risk. From one of the articles I linked in the first post.

Hansen is hoping to raise $290 million in private investment for the new venue. The entire cost of the facility would be between $450 million and $500 million. Public funding participation would be capped at $200 million, with revenue generated mainly by operation of the facility, and with rent paid by the teams and by the arena operator.Under the proposed agreement, if those sources do not generate enough money, the teams would be on the hook to pay more in rent, said Dwight Dively, finance director for King County. He spoke with media at a City Hall briefing before McGinns news conference.There will be no new taxes because of this, said Fred Podesta, finance director for the city of Seattle. There will be new revenues created by the arena.City and county representatives stressed that there would be little to no funding obligation by local taxpayers. The proposed agreement includes financial security provisions that would make Hansens investment group responsible for construction cost overruns and operational shortfalls, said Beth Goldberg, director of the citys budget office.

Edited by Fennis

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there? The stands are half empty and half of those in attendance are from other teams' fan bases. I don't understand why Bettman is so dead set on keeping the team in Phoenix. At best, they're bandwagon fans or wearing the opponents' colors.

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
I don't know the exact details, but here's what I've heard:Hansen will be funding 65% of the cost out of his pocket. The remaining $200m is going to come from the city, and it will only come from revenue directly caused by the arena itself - increased property value, tax on the stadium, rent from the NHL/NBA, etc. Frankly, considering that somewhere between 10k-15k people are going to come into the city 82 nights per year, it seems like a big win for the city financially. It seems like a proposal that only bitter anti-sports people could be against, but I haven't heard a good, detailed negative response yet.

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there? The stands are half empty and half of those in attendance are from other teams' fan bases. I don't understand why Bettman is so dead set on keeping the team in Phoenix. At best, they're bandwagon fans or wearing the opponents' colors.
I live in PHX right now, went to a game last year when the Penguins were in town and I swear I felt like I was in the CONSOL Energy Center. Literally 3:1 Penguin fan:coyote fan ratio

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there?
That's the million dollar question. Can they be profitable if they have an owner who can go after big name players and put a decent team on the ice, or will it just never work in Glendale?

The Yotes drew really well at America West Arena (US Airways Center). Was that because the arena was better located for their fanbase, or was it because they had an exciting team with Tkachuk and Roenick? The current version of the team, due to their roster, is just a middling, make the playoffs, but exit early, sleepy brand of hockey. Their best asset at this point is Tippett.

Edited by azgroover

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some potential NHL options:

Coyotes

Panthers

Islanders

Columbus

Stars (?)

I've always thought Seattle (or Portland) would make a great fit thanks to the natural geographical rivalry with the Western Canada and California teams. Seattle needs an arena. Not sure how much the fans would be in to it but they sure do love their soccer.

The Sounders averaged 40,000 a game last season in MLS. I am not from the area but I assume it is safe to say that if both an NHL and NBA team come in, that number might drop a bit for the Sounders. On the other hand, if it takes a couple more years to get the NBA and NHL in town, the Sounders might be so entrenched it may not matter.

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there? The stands are half empty and half of those in attendance are from other teams' fan bases. I don't understand why Bettman is so dead set on keeping the team in Phoenix. At best, they're bandwagon fans or wearing the opponents' colors.
I live in PHX right now, went to a game last year when the Penguins were in town and I swear I felt like I was in the CONSOL Energy Center. Literally 3:1 Penguin fan:coyote fan ratio
Watching them on TV you see either empty seats or opposing colors. Even here in LA if the Red Wings are in town there's more red than purple/black. But PHX is, by definition, a destination city. So many people from the cold East move there (snowbirds) that it's ridiculous. I grew up there, I learned to drive amongst those damn snowbirds. Even when the NFL re-aligned, the Cards owner (then the AZ Cards, their first year they were the Phx Cardinals, I have the hat) was livid that AZ was spun out of the NFCE because Dallas was their only annual sellout. People from "other than Phoenix" overpopulate the locals, there's no way that Coyotes fans can save the franchis there.

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I see more empty seats in Dallas this year than anywhere else.

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post 1 updated
Good. Thanks Seattle for letting us use you are our ##### for leverage to work out an arena deal.

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I see more empty seats in Dallas this year than anywhere else.

neck and neck with Phoenix for % of seats full

link

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there?
That's the million dollar question. Can they be profitable if they have an owner who can go after big name players and put a decent team on the ice, or will it just never work in Glendale?

The Yotes drew really well at America West Arena (US Airways Center). Was that because the arena was better located for their fanbase, or was it because they had an exciting team with Tkachuk and Roenick? The current version of the team, due to their roster, is just a middling, make the playoffs, but exit early, sleepy brand of hockey. Their best asset at this point is Tippett.

I think their early success was due to the novelty as well as their colorful players like Tkachuk and Roenick and Numminen. The thing is, they'll always fill the stadium, or come close to it, with fans of opponents. Phoenix is a vile pool of outcasts and savages from other states with terrible weather. The NHL might not care while they own the team that the seats are filled with "the enemY", but eventually whoever buys the team will. Or if he doesn't, it won't be long before the ownership issue comes up again.

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I see more empty seats in Dallas this year than anywhere else.

neck and neck with Phoenix for % of seats full

link

That link for is tickets sold/distributed. That does not equal butts in seats.

The NHL (like most leagues) does not list in house attendance, only tickets sold/distributed. Whether those tickets end up having a butt in the seat differs from team to team and city to city.

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
I don't know the exact details, but here's what I've heard:Hansen will be funding 65% of the cost out of his pocket. The remaining $200m is going to come from the city, and it will only come from revenue directly caused by the arena itself - increased property value, tax on the stadium, rent from the NHL/NBA, etc. Frankly, considering that somewhere between 10k-15k people are going to come into the city 82 nights per year, it seems like a big win for the city financially. It seems like a proposal that only bitter anti-sports people could be against, but I haven't heard a good, detailed negative response yet.
Color me skeptical. Just a giant interest free loan? If that were true I can understand how the city would want to sign off on the deal.

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I see more empty seats in Dallas this year than anywhere else.

neck and neck with Phoenix for % of seats full

link

That link for is tickets sold/distributed. That does not equal butts in seats.

The NHL (like most leagues) does not list in house attendance, only tickets sold/distributed. Whether those tickets end up having a butt in the seat differs from team to team and city to city.

Watch a Phoenix game and you'll see the difference.

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there? The stands are half empty and half of those in attendance are from other teams' fan bases. I don't understand why Bettman is so dead set on keeping the team in Phoenix. At best, they're bandwagon fans or wearing the opponents' colors.
I live in PHX right now, went to a game last year when the Penguins were in town and I swear I felt like I was in the CONSOL Energy Center. Literally 3:1 Penguin fan:coyote fan ratio
Watching them on TV you see either empty seats or opposing colors. Even here in LA if the Red Wings are in town there's more red than purple/black. But PHX is, by definition, a destination city. So many people from the cold East move there (snowbirds) that it's ridiculous. I grew up there, I learned to drive amongst those damn snowbirds. Even when the NFL re-aligned, the Cards owner (then the AZ Cards, their first year they were the Phx Cardinals, I have the hat) was livid that AZ was spun out of the NFCE because Dallas was their only annual sellout. People from "other than Phoenix" overpopulate the locals, there's no way that Coyotes fans can save the franchis there.

I will say this, that when they were in the playoffs last year I believe most of their games towards the tail end of the season and playoff games were sell outs.

Even the locals here will tell you that it's mostly a bandwagon town. If the teams are winning they'll sell out, if not its a ghost town (exception being the Cardinals and Suns, but I can see the Suns losing fan support they trade/fail to resign Nash)

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
I don't know the exact details, but here's what I've heard:Hansen will be funding 65% of the cost out of his pocket. The remaining $200m is going to come from the city, and it will only come from revenue directly caused by the arena itself - increased property value, tax on the stadium, rent from the NHL/NBA, etc. Frankly, considering that somewhere between 10k-15k people are going to come into the city 82 nights per year, it seems like a big win for the city financially. It seems like a proposal that only bitter anti-sports people could be against, but I haven't heard a good, detailed negative response yet.
Color me skeptical. Just a giant interest free loan? If that were true I can understand how the city would want to sign off on the deal.
I think we're all skeptical, but with a private investor who wants to put $290m into infrastructure that would allow the city to create a lot of new revenue, I think we're foolish not to hear the guy out.

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I see more empty seats in Dallas this year than anywhere else.

neck and neck with Phoenix for % of seats full

link

That link for is tickets sold/distributed. That does not equal butts in seats.

The NHL (like most leagues) does not list in house attendance, only tickets sold/distributed. Whether those tickets end up having a butt in the seat differs from team to team and city to city.

Watch a Phoenix game and you'll see the difference.
Yup. In fact many week day games in many cities will show large gaps of empty seats even though the attendance the next day reflects almost a capacity crowd.

I wish leagues would release both numbers: tickets sold/distributed and in house attendance.

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:pickle:

Here's to hoping this deal goes through. I'd expect to see some better attendance than last in the league once the cloud of possible relocation goes away. It's really hard to invest yourself in a team that might go away.

afaik, Phoenix has had several deals almost go through. Lets see if this one happens, before we call off the vultures.
Even if it goes through, how are they going to be profitable there? The stands are half empty and half of those in attendance are from other teams' fan bases. I don't understand why Bettman is so dead set on keeping the team in Phoenix. At best, they're bandwagon fans or wearing the opponents' colors.
I live in PHX right now, went to a game last year when the Penguins were in town and I swear I felt like I was in the CONSOL Energy Center. Literally 3:1 Penguin fan:coyote fan ratio
Watching them on TV you see either empty seats or opposing colors. Even here in LA if the Red Wings are in town there's more red than purple/black. But PHX is, by definition, a destination city. So many people from the cold East move there (snowbirds) that it's ridiculous. I grew up there, I learned to drive amongst those damn snowbirds. Even when the NFL re-aligned, the Cards owner (then the AZ Cards, their first year they were the Phx Cardinals, I have the hat) was livid that AZ was spun out of the NFCE because Dallas was their only annual sellout. People from "other than Phoenix" overpopulate the locals, there's no way that Coyotes fans can save the franchis there.

I will say this, that when they were in the playoffs last year I believe most of their games towards the tail end of the season and playoff games were sell outs.

Even the locals here will tell you that it's mostly a bandwagon town. If the teams are winning they'll sell out, if not its a ghost town (exception being the Cardinals and Suns, but I can see the Suns losing fan support they trade/fail to resign Nash)

I think this applies to most cities in this economy, not just the sun belt areas with large numbers of transplants. Look at the Pistons as mentioned above, a few years ago, the hottest ticket in town. Now dead last in nba attendance. People show up if they feel theres a good reason.

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Not interested in the NBA unless they are using David Sterns head for the ball. F that guy.

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
I don't know the exact details, but here's what I've heard:Hansen will be funding 65% of the cost out of his pocket. The remaining $200m is going to come from the city, and it will only come from revenue directly caused by the arena itself - increased property value, tax on the stadium, rent from the NHL/NBA, etc. Frankly, considering that somewhere between 10k-15k people are going to come into the city 82 nights per year, it seems like a big win for the city financially. It seems like a proposal that only bitter anti-sports people could be against, but I haven't heard a good, detailed negative response yet.
If you do enough research on the existing deals in place between sports teams and cities, about 0 of them are any sort of "win" for the city in reality. But I'm sure that won't stop this from going through.

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Not interested in the NBA unless they are using David Sterns head for the ball. F that guy.

:goodposting:I'm really bitter, and feel pretty ambivalent about the NBA coming back. I know I'm a lady of the night though, and as soon as there's a team here I'll be excited about it. Edited by proninja

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:interested:

This reminds me of when my best friend in college nearly flunked out. His dad said, "The days of me paying for your good time are over, son." My gut tells me the local taxpayers still aren't going to support paying for an arena. Do you know the details? Is this new perspective owner willing to pay for it himself?
I don't know the exact details, but here's what I've heard:Hansen will be funding 65% of the cost out of his pocket. The remaining $200m is going to come from the city, and it will only come from revenue directly caused by the arena itself - increased property value, tax on the stadium, rent from the NHL/NBA, etc. Frankly, considering that somewhere between 10k-15k people are going to come into the city 82 nights per year, it seems like a big win for the city financially. It seems like a proposal that only bitter anti-sports people could be against, but I haven't heard a good, detailed negative response yet.
If you do enough research on the existing deals in place between sports teams and cities, about 0 of them are any sort of "win" for the city in reality. But I'm sure that won't stop this from going through.
I know. You'll note my use of the word "seem" through the last couple sentences. There is a standing initiative that states the city can't spend money on a sports arena unless it sees a positive return. The climate here is really tough to get anything done that involves public money. Your assumption that this isn't any different than any of the other arena deals is a poor one to make (though that may not stop it from being right in the long run.)

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Not interested in the NBA unless they are using David Sterns head for the ball. F that guy.

:goodposting:I'm really bitter, and feel pretty ambivalent about the NBA coming back. I know I'm a lady of the night though, and as soon as there's a team here I'll be excited about it.
Yeah, me too. Going to have a hard time putting money back into this guy's pocket. Can't think of a bigger POS in the sports world.Love the idea of a hockey team in Seattle. From what I've read it sounded like we need NBA and NHL to make this deal happen.

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