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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (43 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
sn0mm1s
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Well, Dez did run out on the field to have a conversation about it. Maybe he was persuasive?
matuski
Footballguy
Mike Pereira ✔ @MikePereira
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I am out of here. Biggest call was the DPI pickup. It was DPI and it was defensive holding as well. Not good. Flying back to Sac tonight.
6:58 PM - 4 Jan 2015
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I am out of here. Biggest call was the DPI pickup. It was DPI and it was defensive holding as well. Not good. Flying back to Sac tonight.
6:58 PM - 4 Jan 2015
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Which is a penalty itself, right?
MAC_32
Footballguy
jomar
Footballguy
Give me a break. Then they get stuffed, Dallas scores and you're on here saying he should've punted and pinned them deep.
Judgment call and I'm not going to rip Caldwell for it. I was hoping they'd go for it but I can see punting.
MAC_32
Footballguy
No excuse for punting it on 4th and one in your opponents territory in a one score game in the fourth quarter,Go win the game, don't try not to lose it, because you will.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
MAC_32 said:
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
what a weird penalty call/no call
and why is Suh crying?
and why is Suh crying?
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
karma's a #####
stay classy, detroit
stay classy, detroit
jomar
Footballguy
They did take their shot to win the game one play prior. We got the #### end of a bad call. If you can't even acknowledge that it was a judgment call, then I'm inclined to believe you just don't like Caldwell.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It was a bad call and not the reason the Lions lost the game.Score more than two field goals after the first two possessions or try not having the same number of turnovers as points in the second half and the Lions win.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Can't speak for him, but I was yelling at the TV before that play. Of course you go for it. Not because of the results, but because the numbers say it increases your win expectancy. Fourth and one at midfield is a no-brainer.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Somebody else moved first, cstu. Not that it wasn't the Lions -- I think the center blatantly cocked the ball and threw CJ off. I saw it out of the corner of my eye.
OK, what do people think are the odds of the three most important people to the defense coming back? Here are my back-of-the-envelope guesses:
- Austin: 15%. Unless he totally blows the interviews or decides he's not ready/doesn't like the available options, I don't see how he doesn't get a HC gig. And if by some miracle he does come back, it's only for one more year.
- Fairley: 25%. Don't think he feels any particular loyalty to the Lions after the way they've treated him (I happen to think they handled it well, but I suspect he disagrees). I think he cashes in.
- Suh: 33%. Yeah, I'm probably being delusional with this, and a week ago I would have put it at about 5%. But the only reason I think there's even a chance is that Sunday highlighted just how important he is, and I think it might make the front office do whatever's necessary -- franchise tag, long-term deal -- to bring him back. If they're being rational, he definitely walks, because the franchise tag will result in a massive cap hit, and they'll have a hard time outbidding teams with more cap space on a new deal. But it may just be that irrationality is the most rational move here.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Gunther Cunningham (yep, still alive) and Bill Sheridan are both former DC. Jim Washburn would probably interview. Would rather they go outside to fill the position, but it's a huge loss. But kudos to Austin - I think he'll be a good HC.
Fairley? He's not going to command premium so if we can keep him for a reasonable amount, fine, but CJ Mosely is a better value.
The dead money on Suh is $9.7M, $53M cap hit for 9, 81 & 90 for 2015. After the Cap gets adjusted upward later this year the Lions will have NLT $20M and probably closer to $25-30M of space. Suh is likely looking at a floor of 6-$105M. All things being equal Suh would stay. He owns multiple homes in the area, moved his extended family here, likes the coaches and the D line is tight. But there's no opportunity for a hometown discount here, he won't leave money on the table.
Probably best to pursue Mike Lupati and fill other needs rather than pursue Suh.
Fairley? He's not going to command premium so if we can keep him for a reasonable amount, fine, but CJ Mosely is a better value.
The dead money on Suh is $9.7M, $53M cap hit for 9, 81 & 90 for 2015. After the Cap gets adjusted upward later this year the Lions will have NLT $20M and probably closer to $25-30M of space. Suh is likely looking at a floor of 6-$105M. All things being equal Suh would stay. He owns multiple homes in the area, moved his extended family here, likes the coaches and the D line is tight. But there's no opportunity for a hometown discount here, he won't leave money on the table.
Probably best to pursue Mike Lupati and fill other needs rather than pursue Suh.
thatguythere
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
Two blown first rounders.
yeah, many other rookie receivers did well but let's not call Ebron a blown pick yet.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Keeping Suh would be a surprise but seems more realistic today than it did a week ago.
Sounds like the Jaguars, Browns, Raiders, Jets and Falcons are all possible suitors; Browns or Raiders seem most likely IMO.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
23rd pick again, same as three years ago. Presuming we don't go TE again:
DT: Danny Shelton, Washington; Eddie Goldman, Florida State; Michael Bennett, Ohio State.
CB: Trae Waynes, Michigan State, P.J. Williams, Florida State, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon.
OT: Ereck Flowers, Miami (Fla.); Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M; Andrus Peat, Stanford.
DT: Danny Shelton, Washington; Eddie Goldman, Florida State; Michael Bennett, Ohio State.
CB: Trae Waynes, Michigan State, P.J. Williams, Florida State, Ifo Ekpre-Olomu, Oregon.
OT: Ereck Flowers, Miami (Fla.); Cedric Ogbuehi, Texas A&M; Andrus Peat, Stanford.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
they have to franchise Suh, and try to work out a long term deal.
Its the only option.
Its the only option.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The Lions will have some key decisions to make this offseason on some of their own free agents.
Head coach Jim Caldwell said after Sundays 24-20 loss in Dallas that theres usually about a 35 percent roster turnover from year to year.
So who will be signed and who wont?
Heres a list of the Lions 2015 free agents:
Unrestricted:
Ndamukong Suh, DT
Nick Fairley, DT
Rob Sims, LG
Dominic Raiola, C
Matt Prater, PK
Rashean Mathis, CB
C.J. Mosley, DT
George Johnson, DE
Darryl Tapp, DE
Dan Orlovsky, QB
Jed Collins, FB
Kellen Davis, TE
Corey Hilliard, T
Garrett Reynolds, G
Andre Fluellen, DT
Ashlee Palmer, LB
Cassius Vaughn, CB
Josh Thomas, CB
Isa Abdul-Quddus, S
Don Muhlbach, LS
Restricted:
Kellen Moore, QB
Josh Bynes, LB
Exclusive rights:
Jeremy Ross, WR
Head coach Jim Caldwell said after Sundays 24-20 loss in Dallas that theres usually about a 35 percent roster turnover from year to year.
So who will be signed and who wont?
Heres a list of the Lions 2015 free agents:
Unrestricted:
Ndamukong Suh, DT
Nick Fairley, DT
Rob Sims, LG
Dominic Raiola, C
Matt Prater, PK
Rashean Mathis, CB
C.J. Mosley, DT
George Johnson, DE
Darryl Tapp, DE
Dan Orlovsky, QB
Jed Collins, FB
Kellen Davis, TE
Corey Hilliard, T
Garrett Reynolds, G
Andre Fluellen, DT
Ashlee Palmer, LB
Cassius Vaughn, CB
Josh Thomas, CB
Isa Abdul-Quddus, S
Don Muhlbach, LS
Restricted:
Kellen Moore, QB
Josh Bynes, LB
Exclusive rights:
Jeremy Ross, WR
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
yep, killed their cap this year too, maybe get Matty and Megatron to restrcuture, without Suh that defense is borderline terrible
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I disagree that they defense would be horrible. It was horrible every other year with Suh. The new DC deserves a lot of credit. At 24 million for the franchise tag I would rather see them go get 3 or 4 guys on defense.
massraider
Footballguy
They have too much money tied up in Staff and CJ. Franchising Suh and getting him to sign a long term deal sounds nice, but he'd just sign the tender the second it popped out of the fax machine. For obvious reasons.
Better to let him go, and join the parade of teams trying to sign him. If he DOES love Detroit, and it sounds like it does, no reason he wouldn't give DET a chance to match.
Better to let him go, and join the parade of teams trying to sign him. If he DOES love Detroit, and it sounds like it does, no reason he wouldn't give DET a chance to match.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
dhockster
Footballguy
So the Lions are at $119 million with 40 players counting against the cap in 2015. At a minimum, signing 11 additional players to the roster to count against the cap will add $5 million. That is if all the signees signed for the league minimum (which we know will not happen). Since the cap is projected to be around $140 million that gives the Lions about $16 million to play with to pay over the minimum and to resign Suh. The only players on the 2015 roster that they could cut and save any significant amount of Cap dollars are Steven Tulloch ($3.2 millions saved) DeAndre Levy ($3.5 millions saved) and Jason Jones ($3.15 millions saved). That totals about $10 million. Unless they significantly restructure some players, I don't think they can afford to re-sign Suh.
DocGonzo
Footballguy
I heard an interview yesterday or the day before with Tim Twentyman of Lions.com. He said he's come around to the idea of franchising Suh, if necessary, while they try to work out a long term deal. I don't remember exactly all the math he was doing, but the gist of it was that since the cap is taking a fairly large jump and Suh is already included for ~$10 million the actual resulting cap hit from franchising him isn't as onerous as it first seems. He also talked about the cap space they could create if Calvin restructres but I'm not sure if that was part of the equation when he was doing the math on Suh.
I'm feeling now like they have to re-sign him. Austin deserves a ton of credit for what he did with the D, but he doesn't tackle or cover anyone. The guys who do are made significantly better with Suh on the field. They just are. He improves every level of that defense and I'm not sure there are more than a few guys in the league that you can say that about. You hate to just let one walk away for nothing when you've got one. I'd certainly rather they spend the money to get Suh than let him walk for nothing and give Fairly too much money and watch him slide back into Bad Nick. Also, the alternative is the Lions end up with a ton of cap space -- not a bad thing -- but then they have to spend it properly. It doesn't add up to much if you end up with Charlie V and Ben Gordon.
Now, whether Suh actually WANTS to come back to Detroit is a different story.
I'm feeling now like they have to re-sign him. Austin deserves a ton of credit for what he did with the D, but he doesn't tackle or cover anyone. The guys who do are made significantly better with Suh on the field. They just are. He improves every level of that defense and I'm not sure there are more than a few guys in the league that you can say that about. You hate to just let one walk away for nothing when you've got one. I'd certainly rather they spend the money to get Suh than let him walk for nothing and give Fairly too much money and watch him slide back into Bad Nick. Also, the alternative is the Lions end up with a ton of cap space -- not a bad thing -- but then they have to spend it properly. It doesn't add up to much if you end up with Charlie V and Ben Gordon.
Now, whether Suh actually WANTS to come back to Detroit is a different story.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
They were a middle of the pack defense - 15th or 16th - pre-Austin.
With $9.7M in dead money tied up in Suh, the franchise tag isn't "too much money" - it would run them around $16M additional. He's likely seeking $17-18M per year on his long term FA deal.
Moot point as the Lions are not going down the franchise tag road.
It wouldn't make any sense to restructure Calvin because of the amount of dead money.
Megatron 2015 & 2016
Base Salary 12.5 & 16.0
Cap Hit 20.6 & 24.0
Dead Money 21.0 & 12.9
Not much sense in deferring the 2015 salary and creating an even bigger hit.
Stafford might make more sense; 2015 & 2016:
Base Salary 9.5 & 17.0
Cap Hit 17.7 & 22.5
Dead Money 27.2 & 11.2
They might convert his 2015 salary to a bonus, or extend him further than 3 years.
Reggie Bush - no brainer here. It's a cap hit of $5.2M v. dead money of $2M. See ya, 21.
Tulloch - comes back, but might be a casualty next year when his cap hit is $7.3M and his dead money is only $1.3M.
Levey took a cap reduction this year - he'll probably get his deal extended.
Suh, Sims, Fairley, Moseley, Raiola, Tapp, Prater, Ross - lots of decisions to make here.
Detroit has about $19M to work with right now with the preliminary cap of $138M. That will almost surely rise to $145-$150M so in reality they probably have closer to $25-30M, and that's before they dump Broyles, Bush, et al.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
No official word and lots of hopeful speculation, but I figure there is no way they retain Suh. But who knows.
DocGonzo
Footballguy
I should make it clear that Twentyman's point about the franchise tag seemed to be conditioned on the idea that he wouldn't actually play under it. They'd franchise him only on the path to an extension which, I believe, would mean his actual cap number when all was said and done wouldn't be quite a bit lower than the franchise number.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Key off-season dates:
February 2: Waiver system begins for 2015.
February 16: First day for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
February 17-23: NFL Scouting Combine, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana.
March 2: Prior to 4:00 p.m. ET, deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 7-10: Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with the certified agents of players who will become unrestricted free agents upon the expiration of their 2014 contracts at 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10. However, a contract cannot be executed with a new club until 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10.
March 10: Top-51 Begins. All clubs must be under the 2015 salary cap prior to 4:00 p.m. ET. All 2014 player contracts expire at 4:00 p.m. ET. The 2015 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m. ET.
April 20: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.
April 24: Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign offer sheets.
April 30-May 2: 2015 NFL Draft, Chicago.
May 8-11: First weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three-day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
May 15-18: Second weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three- day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
July 15: At 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for any club that designated a Franchise Player to sign such player to a multi-year contract or extension. After this date, the player may sign only a one-year contract with his prior club for the 2015 season, and such contract cannot be extended until after the club's last regular season game
February 2: Waiver system begins for 2015.
February 16: First day for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
February 17-23: NFL Scouting Combine, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana.
March 2: Prior to 4:00 p.m. ET, deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 7-10: Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with the certified agents of players who will become unrestricted free agents upon the expiration of their 2014 contracts at 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10. However, a contract cannot be executed with a new club until 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10.
March 10: Top-51 Begins. All clubs must be under the 2015 salary cap prior to 4:00 p.m. ET. All 2014 player contracts expire at 4:00 p.m. ET. The 2015 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m. ET.
April 20: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.
April 24: Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign offer sheets.
April 30-May 2: 2015 NFL Draft, Chicago.
May 8-11: First weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three-day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
May 15-18: Second weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three- day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
July 15: At 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for any club that designated a Franchise Player to sign such player to a multi-year contract or extension. After this date, the player may sign only a one-year contract with his prior club for the 2015 season, and such contract cannot be extended until after the club's last regular season game
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
IIRC, the rules for franchising players state that the team has to bump the players salary to the average of the Top 5 at his position - OR - increase his salary by 20% over the season that just ended. I don't remember what Suh was getting for 2014, but I am guessing it was some decent scratch.
