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DETROIT LIONS 2020: Lions shut out on 57th anniversary of Fords owning team. How fitting!

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they have to franchise Suh, and try to work out a long term deal.

Its the only option.

Won't that kill their cap?

yep, killed their cap this year too, maybe get Matty and Megatron to restrcuture, without Suh that defense is borderline terrible

I disagree that they defense would be horrible. It was horrible every other year with Suh. The new DC deserves a lot of credit. At 24 million for the franchise tag I would rather see them go get 3 or 4 guys on defense.

They were a middle of the pack defense - 15th or 16th - pre-Austin.

With $9.7M in dead money tied up in Suh, the franchise tag isn't "too much money" - it would run them around $16M additional. He's likely seeking $17-18M per year on his long term FA deal.

Moot point as the Lions are not going down the franchise tag road.

It wouldn't make any sense to restructure Calvin because of the amount of dead money.

Megatron 2015 & 2016

Base Salary 12.5 & 16.0

Cap Hit 20.6 & 24.0

Dead Money 21.0 & 12.9

Not much sense in deferring the 2015 salary and creating an even bigger hit.

Stafford might make more sense; 2015 & 2016:

Base Salary 9.5 & 17.0

Cap Hit 17.7 & 22.5

Dead Money 27.2 & 11.2

They might convert his 2015 salary to a bonus, or extend him further than 3 years.

Reggie Bush - no brainer here. It's a cap hit of $5.2M v. dead money of $2M. See ya, 21.

Tulloch - comes back, but might be a casualty next year when his cap hit is $7.3M and his dead money is only $1.3M.

Levey took a cap reduction this year - he'll probably get his deal extended.

Suh, Sims, Fairley, Moseley, Raiola, Tapp, Prater, Ross - lots of decisions to make here.

Detroit has about $19M to work with right now with the preliminary cap of $138M. That will almost surely rise to $145-$150M so in reality they probably have closer to $25-30M, and that's before they dump Broyles, Bush, et al.

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Overthecap.com shows Suh with a $9.7 cap hit for 2015 even though his contract will void once the season ends. So even though he will not be under contract in 2015 (as of now), he still has a $10 million cap hit. Is that correct?

Correct, from previous restructures.

So the Lions are at $119 million with 40 players counting against the cap in 2015. At a minimum, signing 11 additional players to the roster to count against the cap will add $5 million. That is if all the signees signed for the league minimum (which we know will not happen). Since the cap is projected to be around $140 million that gives the Lions about $16 million to play with to pay over the minimum and to resign Suh. The only players on the 2015 roster that they could cut and save any significant amount of Cap dollars are Steven Tulloch ($3.2 millions saved) DeAndre Levy ($3.5 millions saved) and Jason Jones ($3.15 millions saved). That totals about $10 million. Unless they significantly restructure some players, I don't think they can afford to re-sign Suh.

No official word and lots of hopeful speculation, but I figure there is no way they retain Suh. But who knows.

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I should make it clear that Twentyman's point about the franchise tag seemed to be conditioned on the idea that he wouldn't actually play under it. They'd franchise him only on the path to an extension which, I believe, would mean his actual cap number when all was said and done wouldn't be quite a bit lower than the franchise number.

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Key off-season dates:

February 2: Waiver system begins for 2015.

February 16: First day for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.

February 17-23: NFL Scouting Combine, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana.

March 2: Prior to 4:00 p.m. ET, deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.

March 7-10: Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with the certified agents of players who will become unrestricted free agents upon the expiration of their 2014 contracts at 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10. However, a contract cannot be executed with a new club until 4:00 p.m. ET, on March 10.

March 10: Top-51 Begins. All clubs must be under the 2015 salary cap prior to 4:00 p.m. ET. All 2014 player contracts expire at 4:00 p.m. ET. The 2015 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m. ET.

April 20: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.

April 24: Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign offer sheets.

April 30-May 2: 2015 NFL Draft, Chicago.

May 8-11: First weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three-day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.

May 15-18: Second weekend after the NFL Draft: clubs may elect to hold their three- day post-draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.

July 15: At 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for any club that designated a Franchise Player to sign such player to a multi-year contract or extension. After this date, the player may sign only a one-year contract with his prior club for the 2015 season, and such contract cannot be extended until after the club's last regular season game

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Haven't read the 33 page thread, but last I saw was if franchised, Suh would get a tag number of $26.7 million. Don't see that happening.

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Haven't read the 33 page thread, but last I saw was if franchised, Suh would get a tag number of $26.7 million. Don't see that happening.

yeah, I saw some blurb about that

that's pretty crazy -- how is that even possible?

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Haven't read the 33 page thread, but last I saw was if franchised, Suh would get a tag number of $26.7 million. Don't see that happening.

yeah, I saw some blurb about that

that's pretty crazy -- how is that even possible?

IIRC, the rules for franchising players state that the team has to bump the players salary to the average of the Top 5 at his position - OR - increase his salary by 20% over the season that just ended. I don't remember what Suh was getting for 2014, but I am guessing it was some decent scratch.

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I think that $26.7 number reflects $9.7 which will be on the Lion's cap from his last contract, and $17 which would be his Franchise Tag number. The top 5 defensive lineman do not average $26 million per year.

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Whatever win-now pressure already present magnifies tenfold in the aftermath of the Watt contract extension because it increasingly appears as though the Lions can’t afford franchise-tagging Suh in 2015.

That would be more than $36 million against the salary cap. Unthinkable, even with a projected $8 million-$10 million increase in the league salary cap next year.

The franchise tag is 120% over the player’s previous year cap number, which is Suh’s case would be $22.4 million this year. That would bump his contract to just under $27 million. But the Lions must also include more than $9 million in dead money from Suh’s various contract restructurings the last three years.

Contact Drew Sharp: dsharp@freepress.com

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Conflicting info here. You guys were saying the $27m included the $9m. That blurb says it's in addition to it...so the $27m is a fully un-sunk cost. If that's true, there's 0% chance they pay him that much.

Edited by Warrior

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I was wrong; I did not know the rule about the 120% of the players prior year cap number. Now, PFT uses prior year cap number in their explanation, Bleacher report says prior year salary. It could be they mean cap number or it could be they mean prior year base salary; I don't know which one they mean and I don't know which one is right. If it is salary cap, Warrior is right, there is absolutely no way they can franchise Suh, unless they then negotiate a long-term deal.

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Conflicting info here. You guys were saying the $27m included the $9m. That blurb says it's in addition to it...so the $27m is a fully un-sunk cost. If that's true, there's 0% chance they pay him that much.

You forgot to factor in Drew Sharp is a ducking moron.

$26.7M = $9.7M dead money from prior restructuring + $17M (top 5 DTs).

Edited by BobbyLayne

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The widely reported cap hit of $26.7M has been out there for months. Pretty sure Drew Sharp didn't discover plutonium here.

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The widely reported cap hit of $26.7M has been out there for months. Pretty sure Drew Sharp didn't discover plutonium here.

:lol:

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from overthecap

There are three types of tags that can be applied to the player between February 17 and March 3:

Exclusive Franchise Tag- This tag completely blocks a player from signing with another NFL team. It will be equal to the average of the top 5 salaries at the players position for the year or 120% of the players’ prior year salary. This number will be calculated at the end of the Restricted Free Agency period.

suh's spotrac page

2014 salary 12.5

2014 cap hit 22.4

2015 dead $ 9.7

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Keeping my fingers crossed that Austin sticks around for one more year, though it sounds like he's having a second-round with Atlanta, and he's on Denver's radar as well. I remember something similar happening with Marvin Lewis back in the day, and Rivera, and even Dan Quinn (and Bowles?) last year. Everyone was sure they were getting HC offers, but the music stopped and they didn't have jobs, so they waited another year.

I'm not betting on it, but it'd sure be nice to see.

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Suh is on record as saying where he goes "is out of his hands, not his decision to make." Which should be interpreted to mean he told his agent: your job is to get me the biggest deal you can, wherever that may be.

Most guys get to that stage of their career and they're thinking about legacy, championships, situation primed to make a run at the Super Bowl, etc. Suh wants money above all else. The floor would seem to be well north of McCoy and Watt money - he wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

Look at the news about Brady today. If Suh wanted to win he has/had as good a shot as any right where he is. Seeing Staff, Calvin and Suh were all drafted before the rookie salary stuff went through, they could have, or more like should have, gotten together and saved the team a bundle for free agency. Obviously they don't want to play together.

I have this feeling only one of these guys will remain in Detroit....and unfortunately for us it's probably Stafford.

lol, Brady is 10 yrs older than Suh and that much richer... ofcourse he doesn't want to leave the guy that made him. But please point out the 27ish yr old QB that has taken a discount on their 1st go around in FA.

Don't you think at some point all the millions are enough and winning would become more important..?

No.

This is correct. I love my job/company and get paid quite well to do what I do, but if someone were to come along and offer me a 20-25% raise I would have to take it.

There are people who disagree with this mindset and I understand their viewpoint, I'm just on the other side of fence.

My life and my children's life and my relative happeness would not change one bit if I made $85 million or $105 million. Being somewhere where I accomplished the most and enjoyed playing would be much much much more important. Maybe Suh does not like Detroit and he just does not want to say it, who knows.

$20 million is $20 million.

That changes a couple more generations of your family's lives.

This is a weak argument imo.

Plus this is his only chance to make that amount, once this contract is done he'll be nickel and dimed

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anyone think Austin was the Rooney Rule candidate?

Yes, I think that a guy who completely turned around a horrible D in a single season and produced one of the best run-defense DVOAs in NFL history is only getting interviews because he's black. There is no other conceivable reason he would be on anyone's short list.

:sarcasm:

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anyone think Austin was the Rooney Rule candidate?

Yes and no. He's interviewed for just about all the job openings. For some teams he's a serious candidate, others are just getting their token guy in.

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:lmao: @ "He should turn down an extra $20m to stay in Detroit and play on a pretty good team to secure his legacy"

Yeah, I'm sure you'd do the same. $20m is just chump change and we'll all look back on those couple of first round playoff exits he will have brought to Detroit.

Edited by Warrior

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The Seattle DC has to be at the top of the list, so once that teams loses (if they ever do), all the coaching pieces should fall from there.

Edited by Leroy Hoard

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The Seattle DC has to be at the top of the list, so once that teams loses (if they ever do), all the coaching pieces should fall from there.

This recent tweet adds to the discussion:

ESPN's Josina Anderson reports Lions DC Teryl Austin has withdrawn his name from the Broncos' head-coaching search.

Austin was scheduled to interview with Denver on Friday, but canceled at the last minute. It appears to be Atlanta or a return to Detroit for Austin. He's interviewed twice for the Falcons' head-coaching opening, but Atlanta may be waiting to speak with Seahawks DC Dan Quinn and/or Patriots OC Josh McDaniels before making a decision. The Lions would love for Austin to return.
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I'm starting to get cautiously optimistic on Austin staying. If the Falcons are truly waiting on Quinn, what other jobs are still available, and has Austin been linked to any of them?

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If Austin withdrew his name from the Broncos job it makes you wonder what is going on out there? Is Peyton done? Or is Elway that hard to work for? My guess Elway is calling the shots and no coach wants to be told how to run their team.

Edited by msudaisy26

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The denver interview goes something like this

coach - 'So is peyton playing"

Elway - "I really dont know"

coach - <_<

Probably not too far off.

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The denver interview goes something like this

coach - 'So is peyton playing"

Elway - "I really dont know"

coach - <_<

Probably not too far off.

thats why I think that job goes to Kubiak, hes an old bronco and Elways boy, They keep the passing game the same, go more ZBS for running and Peyton tries it for one more season, Kubiak gets Brock ready for the next year

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I think Austin's return is actually win-win. I mean, obviously, it's good for the Lions to have him back, and also allows them to spend the next season grooming his replacement, but it also could be good for Austin. The dude has one year of experience as a coordinator. Maybe he's already there in terms of his ability to step in as a HC, but waiting one more year could give him more time to prepare himself. It could also mean that he's in a position to pick his situation next year.

Off the top of my head, here are a few other hot coordinators who seemed destined to land HC jobs but ended up having to wait an extra year or two: Marvin Lewis, Rivera, and (presumably) Quinn. I think Dungy may have been in that position as well. Overall, not a bad list to join. (Also wonder if it's a coincidence that everyone I just named is a minority.)

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I think Austin's return is actually win-win. I mean, obviously, it's good for the Lions to have him back, and also allows them to spend the next season grooming his replacement, but it also could be good for Austin. The dude has one year of experience as a coordinator. Maybe he's already there in terms of his ability to step in as a HC, but waiting one more year could give him more time to prepare himself. It could also mean that he's in a position to pick his situation next year.

Well he will be here at least one more year with the Seahawk DC going to Atlanta. :thumbup:

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The Lions will have some key decisions to make this offseason on some of their own free agents.

Head coach Jim Caldwell said after Sundays 24-20 loss in Dallas that theres usually about a 35 percent roster turnover from year to year.

So who will be signed and who wont?

Heres a list of the Lions 2015 free agents:

Unrestricted:

Ndamukong Suh, DT - Somehow miraculously kept with some cuts and restructuring

Nick Fairley, DT - Out, someone is going to pay him

Rob Sims, LG - Out, he sucks

Dominic Raiola, C - Out, finally

Matt Prater, PK - Resigned, can't afford a repeat of the beginning of last season

Rashean Mathis, CB - Another 1 yr deal

C.J. Mosley, DT - Signs elsewhere

George Johnson, DE - Gets over paid by someone, sadly.

Darryl Tapp, DE - Brought back for his versatility for 1 yr

Dan Orlovsky, QB - Gone (please!)

Jed Collins, FB - Resigned

Kellen Davis, TE - Gone

Corey Hilliard, T - Gone, can't stay healthy

Garrett Reynolds, G - Gone

Andre Fluellen, DT - Resigned for depth

Ashlee Palmer, LB - Gone, third LB spot will go to Van Noy

Cassius Vaughn, CB - Gone, hoping the young guys can stay healthy

Josh Thomas, CB - Gone, who?

Isa Abdul-Quddus, S - Resigned, good ST and backup

Don Muhlbach, LS - ​Resigned, keep consistency

Restricted:

Kellen Moore, QB - Gone, time to move on

Josh Bynes, LB - Resigned, played well filling in

Exclusive rights:

Jeremy Ross, WR - Gone, terrible year, need to find a new return man

I also see J. Jones and Bush being cut loose and possibly Tulloch. First 3 picks should be DL, OL, CB in any order.

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The Lions will have some key decisions to make this offseason on some of their own free agents.

Head coach Jim Caldwell said after Sundays 24-20 loss in Dallas that theres usually about a 35 percent roster turnover from year to year.

So who will be signed and who wont?

Heres a list of the Lions 2015 free agents:

Unrestricted:

Ndamukong Suh, DT - Somehow miraculously kept with some cuts and restructuring

Nick Fairley, DT - Out, someone is going to pay him

Rob Sims, LG - Out, he sucks

Dominic Raiola, C - Out, finally

Matt Prater, PK - Resigned, can't afford a repeat of the beginning of last season

Rashean Mathis, CB - Another 1 yr deal

C.J. Mosley, DT - Signs elsewhere

George Johnson, DE - Gets over paid by someone, sadly.

Darryl Tapp, DE - Brought back for his versatility for 1 yr

Dan Orlovsky, QB - Gone (please!)

Jed Collins, FB - Resigned

Kellen Davis, TE - Gone

Corey Hilliard, T - Gone, can't stay healthy

Garrett Reynolds, G - Gone

Andre Fluellen, DT - Resigned for depth

Ashlee Palmer, LB - Gone, third LB spot will go to Van Noy

Cassius Vaughn, CB - Gone, hoping the young guys can stay healthy

Josh Thomas, CB - Gone, who?

Isa Abdul-Quddus, S - Resigned, good ST and backup

Don Muhlbach, LS - ​Resigned, keep consistency

Restricted:

Kellen Moore, QB - Gone, time to move on

Josh Bynes, LB - Resigned, played well filling in

Exclusive rights:

Jeremy Ross, WR - Gone, terrible year, need to find a new return man

I also see J. Jones and Bush being cut loose and possibly Tulloch. First 3 picks should be DL, OL, CB in any order.

I thought prater signed a 2 year deal? I could be wrong

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The Lions released Reggie Bush. Was that expected?

A lot of mock drafts have hinted at it. Seen Gurley mocked there a good bit.

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The Lions released Reggie Bush. Was that expected?

A lot of mock drafts have hinted at it. Seen Gurley mocked there a good bit.

Plus Theo Riddick can do a decent job for a lot less money than Bush.

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Can someone explain how Suhs franchise tag number got to 27 million? The top paid DTs are between 8-12 million and there are only a few on them. Suh himself earned 12 million last season. KC just tagged Houston for 12 million.

Edited by Da Guru

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Can someone explain how Suhs franchise tag number got to 27 million? The top paid DTs are between 8-12 million and there are only a few on them. Suh himself earned 12 million last season. KC just tagged Houston for 12 million.

Worst Contract: Ndamukong Suh

Trust me I understand that the old CBA dictated Suh’s salary and to some extent his contract structure. What the old CBA did not dictate was multiple restructures that will cripple a teams salary cap well beyond the terms of the original contract. When you are a team that is in salary cap trouble as the Lions have been and continue to be, tough decisions are necessary. You either need to release players for cap relief or begin to restructure contracts to keep your team intact.

However, when you select option B you have to use the restructure on either older players that you won’t re-sign or younger players where the restructure will not completely cripple your negotiations. The Lions were always going to re-sign Matt Stafford. While the restructures did them no favors his cap numbers were still within the QB market plus its a high priced position to begin with. Stafford has the upside to be a top 5 QB which means you have a chance at a Super Bowl if he realizes the upside. Suh presents a different case.

Suh does not play at a high priced position. Suh does not play at a game changing position. Suh is not the best DT in the NFL and likely never will be. Even after multiple restructures Suh’s cap hit this season is 3rd in the NFL. Next season, his final under contract, it jumps to over $21 million. That is $8 million more than the next highest player and almost $5 million more than the Cleveland Browns entire spending on DT’s in 2014. The Browns have the 2nd largest spend at the position in the NFL to the Lions.

The Defensive Tackle market maxes out around $9 million a year unless Geno Atkins, the best in the league, signs for more money with the Bengals. Suh should maybe earn a maximum of $8 million, but the handling of his contract has completely compromised the Lions position. The cost of releasing Suh next season is nearly $20 million dollars. The cost of letting Suh become a free agent in 2015 is $9.7 million dollars. Those numbers are the fault of the Lions managerial decisions not the CBA. Gerald McCoy, another high pick DT, will only carry $5.2 million in dead money if cut in his last contract year, $14 million or so less than Suh.

What leverage do you have at this point? He is due to earn over $11 million and why should he give the Lions any discount. They can’t threaten to cut him. They can’t even threaten to let him play it out. The costs of him playing his contract out and not extending him is not workable. They have backed themselves into a corner to where Suh will likely be the highest paid DT in the NFL because the Lions have no other options. They had those options open to them before and can only blame themselves for whatever dollars they are forced to pay in the future.

The franchise number is average of top 5 at position, or a 20% increase over previous cap number, whichever is greater. Because Lions pushed so much money to end of contract, his franchise number was bloated.

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Can someone explain how Suhs franchise tag number got to 27 million? The top paid DTs are between 8-12 million and there are only a few on them. Suh himself earned 12 million last season. KC just tagged Houston for 12 million.

Worst Contract: Ndamukong Suh

Trust me I understand that the old CBA dictated Suh’s salary and to some extent his contract structure. What the old CBA did not dictate was multiple restructures that will cripple a teams salary cap well beyond the terms of the original contract. When you are a team that is in salary cap trouble as the Lions have been and continue to be, tough decisions are necessary. You either need to release players for cap relief or begin to restructure contracts to keep your team intact.

However, when you select option B you have to use the restructure on either older players that you won’t re-sign or younger players where the restructure will not completely cripple your negotiations. The Lions were always going to re-sign Matt Stafford. While the restructures did them no favors his cap numbers were still within the QB market plus its a high priced position to begin with. Stafford has the upside to be a top 5 QB which means you have a chance at a Super Bowl if he realizes the upside. Suh presents a different case.

Suh does not play at a high priced position. Suh does not play at a game changing position. Suh is not the best DT in the NFL and likely never will be. Even after multiple restructures Suh’s cap hit this season is 3rd in the NFL. Next season, his final under contract, it jumps to over $21 million. That is $8 million more than the next highest player and almost $5 million more than the Cleveland Browns entire spending on DT’s in 2014. The Browns have the 2nd largest spend at the position in the NFL to the Lions.

The Defensive Tackle market maxes out around $9 million a year unless Geno Atkins, the best in the league, signs for more money with the Bengals. Suh should maybe earn a maximum of $8 million, but the handling of his contract has completely compromised the Lions position. The cost of releasing Suh next season is nearly $20 million dollars. The cost of letting Suh become a free agent in 2015 is $9.7 million dollars. Those numbers are the fault of the Lions managerial decisions not the CBA. Gerald McCoy, another high pick DT, will only carry $5.2 million in dead money if cut in his last contract year, $14 million or so less than Suh.

What leverage do you have at this point? He is due to earn over $11 million and why should he give the Lions any discount. They can’t threaten to cut him. They can’t even threaten to let him play it out. The costs of him playing his contract out and not extending him is not workable. They have backed themselves into a corner to where Suh will likely be the highest paid DT in the NFL because the Lions have no other options. They had those options open to them before and can only blame themselves for whatever dollars they are forced to pay in the future.

The franchise number is average of top 5 at position, or a 20% increase over previous cap number, whichever is greater. Because Lions pushed so much money to end of contract, his franchise number was bloated.

Thanks.....Lions management is to blame for this mess. The team was so crappy for so long that they were happy to have 3 so called "Stars" for the fans to cheer about and fill the stadium. Lions were 4-12 but we Had Suh, CJ and Stafford. Team is paying harshly for its past ineptitude. Lions are going to be in the same position with Johnson the next 3 seasons.

Edited by Da Guru

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They are to blame, they also had some bad luck in regards to timing. Staff, CJ, and Suh were all top 3 picks with no rookie cap, and never got to have any solid cheap years from those players.

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They are to blame, they also had some bad luck in regards to timing. Staff, CJ, and Suh were all top 3 picks with no rookie cap, and never got to have any solid cheap years from those players.

Agree but there has been some bad drafting by Mayhew as well. When Suh leaves the Lions will have nobody left from the 10 or 11 draft classes. Those players should be the core of the team right now. Because Broyles, LeShoure, Best, Young, and looks like Ebron have not panned out the Lions were forced to pay for Reggie Bush and Golden Tate furthering the cap problem.

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Exactly, you have to build through the draft. You cannot sustain on FA additions.

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The Detroit Lions agreed to a three-year deal with place-kicker Matt Prater on Friday, meaning the team will have a stabilized kicking situation for the first time since Jason Hanson retired after the 2012 season.

The Lions learned the hard way what life is like with an inconsistent kicker, so re-signing Matt Prater was a critical move , Michael Rothstein writes.

Terms of the deal were not disclosed, but the NFL Network reported that it was for $9 million.

Prater, who holds the NFL record for longest field goal (64 yards), signed with the Lions before Week 6 after serving a four-game suspension for violation of the league's substance-abuse policy. When his suspension ended, Denver cut him and the Lions picked him up after going through rookie Nate Freese and veteran Alex Henery during the first five weeks of the 2014 season.

Prater, 30, solidified Detroit's kicking game, making 21 of 26 field goals this season, including a game winner against the Falcons in Week 8.

"As Matt got more acclimated with us, especially with Don [Muhlbach] and Sam [Martin], he really became someone we could count on and was a positive contributor to our kicking game last season," Lions coach Jim Caldwell said in a statement on the team's website. "Our field goal unit made significant improvement with Matt as the season went on.

"Re-signing Matt was definitely a priority for us. We are excited to bring him back, and we feel that both he and Sam provide us with two valuable weapons in the kicking game."

Prater has made 163 of 200 field goals in his career (81.5 percent) and has also made 11 of 13 field goals in the playoffs. Teams he has been on have made the playoffs the past four seasons.

His signing also brings back the entire special-teams operation from last season, as Muhlbach, the long-snapper, signed a one-year deal last week, and Martin, the punter, is in the third year of his four-year rookie contract.

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