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2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (32 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
You could have your package delivery sent to Ford Field's parking lot and pick it up on the way out.
I would approve of this change ONLY if the players were dropped off on the field by drones.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah, I meant ownership of the team. Not where they play out of. I should have been more clear.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
IMO the Ford family took a winning franchise and established the losing, no accountability culture that exists even today. Old man Ford was one of those guys who believed in
never saying sorry for a mistake and took pride in not being swayed by fan opinion. I do not feel I owe the Ford family much if anything.
I do think that through Ford ownership it ensures the team staying in Detroit. Though I believe that there will always be a NFL team in Detroit regardless of ownership because of the passionate fan base and I will give the Fords credit for running a clean respectable (outside of winning) franchise.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't think I owe the Fords anything at all either. It has nothing to do with that. It's pride in where I came from and live, it's my resistance to seeing an outsider come in and buy it out.
rockaction
Footballguy
I'm totally with you, but the Red Sox felt that way about family and outsiders up until they realized that some people see a jewel in the rough and tend to it properly when it's sort of been neglected in fundamental competency ways.
Four titles later a million shades of red later and they'll tell you all about it.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
#### who owns the team, these fans deserve a winner.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I really don't think the Lions are being neglected. They have been making moves, trying to get better. It's just not easy and it is easy to underestimate how much chance plays a role in something as large as a football franchise. You can make 20 hires that are independently good moves but the chemistry between them just somehow doesn't work and the end result is less than the sum of it's parts. There is no science or established blue print to building successful communities like this.I'm totally with you, but the Red Sox felt that way about family and outsiders up until they realized that some people see a jewel in the rough and tend to it properly when it's sort of been neglected in fundamental competency ways.
Four titles later a million shades of red later and they'll tell you all about it.
rockaction
Footballguy
You would know a better than I. I'm just still stuck on Matt Millen as a hire and the insistence on sticking with him until 0-16 became a reality, IIRC. That strikes me as a family not paying attention to football operations and completely delegating off the lot, with no quality control, as it were.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes there. Martha is a much better owner than her husband was. William Clay liked Matt Millen and enjoyed their relationship so he gave his friend too long of a leash with that belief that eventually he could get it right. Coaching wise, the Lions have tried everything in my lifetime: hot young coordinators, experienced veteran coordinators, former HCs with playoff experience, guys who worked with New England, fiery, calm, etc. It just hasn't worked. For years the complaints were the Lions always draft skill players and need to build inside out. So Quinn has tried to build inside out and it's not working either. In a sport where it takes more than 10 seasons to get the same amount of games played as 1 season of baseball, variance is all powerful IMO.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Dude, you are just being impatient with their plan. Give them another 60 years and I'm sure you will be eating your words.
Tornacl
Footballguy
Not only have they not won a Superbowl, but if you add up their playoff victories since the Fords bought the team, and they haven't even won enough playoff games to make it to ONE Superbowl. This year will be Superbowl 54, and in those 54 years of Superbowls, the Lions have ONE playoff victory.rascal said:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
108 teams total have gone to Superbowls under Ford ownership. Closest they ever got to one was 1991, beating the Cowboys and then getting thumped 41-10 by Washington in the NFC title game.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The assumption here is that anyone named Ford will be the same. There was one person who owned the team for the majority of those miserable years. He no longer owns the team. I think Martha has already been better and more involved. Whichever Ford takes over next will be their own person with their own skills, traits, strengths, weaknesses, etc. Obviously, I’m not happy with the history of the team but that doesn’t mean I want them sold to anyone.
Moonlight
Footballguy
You cant just give Martha a pass on Lion history. She was there with old Man Ford all those years. If she had any influence on team direction it wasn't good. I'm not willing to accept that she was totally kept out of discussions regarding team operations unless you have something otherwise.
Catbird
Footballguy
We all think we could do it with a little help, but I think it is extremely difficult to run an NFL team. The salary cap keeps cash from deciding much. Ask the Redskins fans how much money helps. Ask the Cowboy fans how much having a knowledgeable, free spending and passionate owner helps. Ask the Jaguars how much having a multi-Superbowl winning staff leader and consultant helps. Ask the Raiders how much having a Superbowl winning head coach helps. Ask the Cardinals how much having the most innovative coach from the college ranks helps (although the jury is still out here). Ask the Bears how much an innovative coach from the Chief's tree with a more than solid defense helps. Ask Miami or the Jets or the Bengals or the Browns what kind of ownership helps. Its a tough gig. If you think a broken back crushed your expectation, look at what happened to Cleveland's light parade. They'd already been awarded a Superbowl slot by the media and fans.
18 teams have gone to the Superbowl in the last 20 years. That means 14 haven't. Your in the same boat, but no worse than they are. At least you are competitive. I encourage you to quit bemoaning ancient history, recognize that you are a .500 team with Stafford healthy, be glad the Fords aren't someone who wants to buy and move the team in Toronto or Mexico City or London and support them in the long climb to being a winner. It often takes upgrading 15 or 18 players from a losing roster, and its rare to do that in 2 or even 3 years.
If you don't want to take the team as they are and support them getting better - don't.They'll be find without you. If you're a fan, be one. Complain, of course, but within the range of support, not constant whining and bemoaning all you've had to live through.
18 teams have gone to the Superbowl in the last 20 years. That means 14 haven't. Your in the same boat, but no worse than they are. At least you are competitive. I encourage you to quit bemoaning ancient history, recognize that you are a .500 team with Stafford healthy, be glad the Fords aren't someone who wants to buy and move the team in Toronto or Mexico City or London and support them in the long climb to being a winner. It often takes upgrading 15 or 18 players from a losing roster, and its rare to do that in 2 or even 3 years.
If you don't want to take the team as they are and support them getting better - don't.They'll be find without you. If you're a fan, be one. Complain, of course, but within the range of support, not constant whining and bemoaning all you've had to live through.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Some of us are more than 20 years old. How about running that stat going back to the entire history of the Super Bowl. Then tell me how Lion fans are in the same boat.
matuski
Footballguy
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Dude is a complete ham & egger QB. Zero playoff wins with Calvin Johnson. They really got taken to the cleaners with that investment and they even signed him to a 2nd big $ contract after he returned nothing with the 1st one.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Come on man...What’s his win percentage against winning teams? Historically bad. Statistically you’re better off with Keenum, Fitzpatrick, McCown and Winston. Yet you’re paying him mega millions.
Moonlight
Footballguy
I think the Lion organization/team as a whole has a poor winning % against winning teams. For example what is Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson's win % vs. winning teams.
I remember how poor Lion QB play was for decades before Stafford was drafted. He shows the capacity to win. He was carrying the team this year before he was hurt. If the Lions had any kind of defense they would have been a one lose team before his injury.
I remember how poor Lion QB play was for decades before Stafford was drafted. He shows the capacity to win. He was carrying the team this year before he was hurt. If the Lions had any kind of defense they would have been a one lose team before his injury.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes, we all know what a "winning tradition" the Lions had the 50 years before Stafford. Talk about clueless.
matuski
Footballguy
What is any quarterback's record against good teams on historically bad teams/franchises?Come on man...What’s his win percentage against winning teams? Historically bad. Statistically you’re better off with Keenum, Fitzpatrick, McCown and Winston. Yet you’re paying him mega millions.
Pinning the Lions woes on Stafford is laughable.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Infinite Jest had them parachuting onto the field from a flyover.
If it's been thought...
rockaction
Footballguy
Quarterbacks aren't the only thing that wins/loses games. There's no way you're better off with those guys than him in any way, shape, or form. No NFL analyst would say otherwise, and not even the rogue ones with a personal stake in having it be true would.
Stafford is an average NFL QB, and I'd even consider him a little better than that. I'd put him slightly above Cousins, if this was a tier exercise.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Anyone who pins a historically bad franchise's problems on a single player shows just how little they know about football.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
She wasn't running the team and she's already been more aggressive in firing people than her late husband ever was. Also, their son said when she took over the team, she took on a lot more duties and become more involved than her husband ever was.
Agreed, Stafford's play is the farthest thing from the reason the Lions have struggled.
I would say, right now, QBs definitely better than Stafford:
- Lamar
- Mahomes
- Wilson
- Watson
- Brees
- Rodgers
rockaction
Footballguy
I'd tier it differently, but that looks like a decent list. Jimmy G still has something to prove before moving into that. Ben Roethlisberger should easily be there, as should Rivers, but Ben's hurt and Rivers is clearly on the downswing right now.
Brady should be above all those guys in the second tier you've got. He's got nothing at receiver, and I say that as a guy who watches them all the time. Just nothing.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
True, Brady’s weapons are pretty bad this year which gives him the benefit of the doubt. Rivers is shot though. I would put him towards the bottom of the league and speaking of weapons, his are pretty good. It’s hard to evaluate Ben with the injury and his age, rumors of considering retirement, etc.
shadrap
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
shadrap
Footballguy
he played his best game at the right moment. he is a good QB maybe, but no mobility which in today's NFL means not for long except for those that get rid of it quick; Brady, Brees.
the game is changing & I'm the worst for excepting it, but I believe the future is a pocket passer that can run. A. Rogers fits the bill. So does Mahones.
IMO
Ilov80s
Footballguy
A mobile QB certainly helps. There’s still room for other QBs though IMO. We aren’t that far removed from the ghost of Peyton Manning winning a SB.
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't think that's a great criticism of the Fords. They have tried. They have spent money. They want to win. They are just really bad at it.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The one huge head scratcher was how long he kept his buddy Millen around. It’s easy to criticize now but at the time everyone loved the Millen hire, loved bringing in Mooch, etc.
Moonlight
Footballguy
I hated the Millen hire from the beginning. But as you say almost all Lion fans were giddy that a real football man would be heading the team.
Also remember that Ford kept Russ Thomas on as GM forever.
Daryl Rogers as coach was inept and had no real passion for the NFL or the Lions and is infamous for saying what does it take to get fired around here.
Also remember that Ford kept Russ Thomas on as GM forever.
Daryl Rogers as coach was inept and had no real passion for the NFL or the Lions and is infamous for saying what does it take to get fired around here.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Twenty years with a CPA as the GM
(Russ Thomas, 1968-88)
There’s actually a logical explanation why WCF was so slow to replace GMs/HCs that Darryl Rogers (18 wins in four years) once asked reporters “What does a guy have to do to get fired around here?” He was a design executive & later headed up the Continental division. They killed the Mark II off after only two years. He never wanted to see that mistake again, and gave his leaders second/third/eighth chances to succeed.
oh man. just saw Marvin Jones Jr’s IG post. his six month old son Marlo (youngest of five) has passed. unimaginable.
my heart goes out to him & his wife.
