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Saints being investigated for putting bounties on players (1 Viewer)

Ghost Rider

Footballguy
Per Jason La Canfora on twitter:

NFL announces a comprehensive investigation find Saints defense and coaches guilty of violating NFL rules by having bounties on opponents...

 
After reading Adam Schefter's tweets, the investigation started in 2010 and is already over. The Saints have been found guilty. 22-27 defensive players were involved, at least 1 assistant coach and it was all run by Gregg Williams.

The Saints will be facing possible fines, suspensions and loss of draft pick(s).

They're in hot water. Especially Gregg Williams.

 
I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.

 
If this is true, anything short of suspensions and heavy fines for the instigators (Williams) will show Goodell to be a hypocrite and a farce.

 
Schefter article says the pool was funded "primarily" by the players. I wonder if anyone affiliated with the team other than players funded it. From a player and coach conduct standpoint, it's bad enough already. But if someone with the team paid players under the table based on performance, it's a whole 'nother can of worms.

 
I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
 
This is one of those times where it's always interesting to find a team board and read what their own fans are saying. I googled for one and found www.saintsreport.com. Clicked forums and saw "The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."

Yep.

 
How desperately to these players need an extra $10K that it would be worth knowing they ended another man's career?

 
This is one of those times where it's always interesting to find a team board and read what their own fans are saying. I googled for one and found www.saintsreport.com. Clicked forums and saw "The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."Yep.
It'll be the same kind of stuff we heard from Pats fans with Spygate: "everyone is doing it". :rolleyes:
 
This is one of those times where it's always interesting to find a team board and read what their own fans are saying. I googled for one and found www.saintsreport.com. Clicked forums and saw "The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."Yep.
It'll be the same kind of stuff we heard from Pats fans with Spygate: "everyone is doing it". :rolleyes:
That's gonna be the first comparison, but IMO they may be different situations. Spygate was a case of breaking the rules for competitive advantage. This is a player conduct rule. It may have encouraged improper behavior designed to give you a competitive advantage- intentionally injuring opponents-, but the fund itself doesn't really create a competitive advantage. You can try to injure players with our without the fund, and you can not try to injure players with our without the fund. Not saying this is better or worse (obviously from a moral standpoint this is worse), just that it's very different If, however, portions of the fund came from people affiliated with the Saints other than the players, that's an under the table payment that I assume violates the CBA restrictions on player compensation. Then you've got a player conduct violation AND a competition violation. Makes what already looks to be a huge problem even bigger.
 
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Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
Makes sense. The NFL is fighting a PR battle over player safety, so to not blast the Saints for this would not only be inexcusable but plain stupid.
 
This is one of those times where it's always interesting to find a team board and read what their own fans are saying. I googled for one and found www.saintsreport.com. Clicked forums and saw "The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later."Yep.
It'll be the same kind of stuff we heard from Pats fans with Spygate: "everyone is doing it". :rolleyes:
Not that everybody is doing it but I wouldn't be surprised if other teams did it.
 
Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
 
Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
Good. To not do so would make the NFL's plea for player safety look like a joke. And looking back, the NFL cannot be happy with these officials from those games, since many borderline cheap shots were not flagged. Also, does this taint the Saints Super Bowl win?
 
I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
Yup, from Schefter's tweets, it sounds like the NFL has proof that that's exactly what happened in both of those games.Saints about to get blown up. With the Brees situation blowing up now too, things are looming ugly for th Saints.
 
Schefter expects penalties considerably harsher than Spygate.

Wonder if word comes out that he did it with each team he coached.

 
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I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
Yup, from Schefter's tweets, it sounds like the NFL has proof that that's exactly what happened in both of those games.Saints about to get blown up. With the Brees situation blowing up now too, things are looming ugly for th Saints.
Pretty sure I read somewhere that as much as $50,000 was on the line for the game vs. Minn in which Favre was knocked out of. This is going to be ugly, very ugly.
 
Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
I don't know that it's worse. I mean they put a bounty on a guy's head, but the players still have to adhere to the rules of the sport. If they don't, they'll be fined, suspended, thrown out of the game. So it's not like these guys can simply change the rules to suit their needs. The Pats clearly cheated, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, whereas I can't see how the Saints broke the on-field rules, and if they did they were dealt with by the league in the same way every other team was.
 
Any chance Brees refuses to sign long-term now? This is a huge stain on that franchise, and with Payton, he's the face of it.

 
Are the bounties also a violation of the salary cap? Isn't it like if a team were to pay players extra under the table? I wonder if the bounties are on the books.

And if it is a violation of the cap, could the Saints be stripped of their Lombardi Trophy?

 
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Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
I don't know that it's worse. I mean they put a bounty on a guy's head, but the players still have to adhere to the rules of the sport. If they don't, they'll be fined, suspended, thrown out of the game. So it's not like these guys can simply change the rules to suit their needs. The Pats clearly cheated, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, whereas I can't see how the Saints broke the on-field rules, and if they did they were dealt with by the league in the same way every other team was.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. Unless, as I said, Saints staff chipped in for the pool. Then it's the worst of both worlds: player conduct and competitive advantage.
 
I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
Flagged for what?Guy falling down still going at him...other guy sort of pulling up as he comes from the front?

While I agree many hits in that game were hard and excessive...the one you just put up happens many times with no flags.

Neither hit was very late, nor was there excessive contact.

 
Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
I don't know that it's worse. I mean they put a bounty on a guy's head, but the players still have to adhere to the rules of the sport. If they don't, they'll be fined, suspended, thrown out of the game. So it's not like these guys can simply change the rules to suit their needs. The Pats clearly cheated, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, whereas I can't see how the Saints broke the on-field rules, and if they did they were dealt with by the league in the same way every other team was.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. Unless, as I said, Saints staff chipped in for the pool. Then it's the worst of both worlds: player conduct and competitive advantage.
As I understand it, DC G. Williams set it up and ran it. S. Payton knew about and turned his head and never asked any questions.
 
I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
You can't dive at the knees from the front or back.The "Brady Rule" specifically prohibits a defender on the ground who hasn't been blocked or fouled directly into the quarterback from lunging or diving at the quarterback's lower legs.

CBSSports writeup on the issue.

 
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Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
I don't know that it's worse. I mean they put a bounty on a guy's head, but the players still have to adhere to the rules of the sport. If they don't, they'll be fined, suspended, thrown out of the game. So it's not like these guys can simply change the rules to suit their needs. The Pats clearly cheated, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, whereas I can't see how the Saints broke the on-field rules, and if they did they were dealt with by the league in the same way every other team was.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. Unless, as I said, Saints staff chipped in for the pool. Then it's the worst of both worlds: player conduct and competitive advantage.
If the money paid in bounties weren't accounted for in the salary cap then it's an even bigger deal.
 
NEW YORK (AP) — The NFL says that New Orleans Saints players maintained a bounty program over the last three seasons that targeted opponents with the intent to injure them.

The league disclosed the findings of an investigation Friday, saying between 22 and 27 defensive players and at least one assistant coach were involved. No punishments have been handed out yet, but they could include suspensions and fines.

Commissioner Roger Goodell says he is troubled because the system "involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players. The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity."

The league's investigation shows the pool for the bounty program may have surpassed $50,000 at its height during the 2009 playoffs. New Orleans won the Super Bowl that season.

 
Gonna cost some draft picks.
I'm hearing a lot of predictions from the national media (Shefter and others) that the punishment for this will be "far worse" than Spygate. And that wasn't exactly a slap on the wrist.
It will be worse and it should be. Perhaps the only unfortunate aspect of this for the Saints is that in the end, the ownership is who will suffer the most from this and from what I read they are were fully cooperative in this investigation. G. Williams is in BIG trouble.S. Payton is in BIG trouble.The players responsible for adding to and accepting money will be fined big time IMO.The Saints will be fined and loose several picks when this is all said and done.This is extremely embarrassing for the Saints and the NFL.
I don't know that it's worse. I mean they put a bounty on a guy's head, but the players still have to adhere to the rules of the sport. If they don't, they'll be fined, suspended, thrown out of the game. So it's not like these guys can simply change the rules to suit their needs. The Pats clearly cheated, breaking the rules to gain an advantage, whereas I can't see how the Saints broke the on-field rules, and if they did they were dealt with by the league in the same way every other team was.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at. Unless, as I said, Saints staff chipped in for the pool. Then it's the worst of both worlds: player conduct and competitive advantage.
How is there a competitive advantage? Every single play is on television, subject to review by the league. If they're having late or illegal hits, they'd be caught eventually. It's not like you can simply get away with cheating on the field for any extended period of time. For a lay or two, maybe, but cheating in that manner couldn't be sustained. I do agree if the staff was involved it's a huge stain on the team and the league and needs to be dealt with, but I don't consider it a competitive advantage really.
 
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I would love to see Williams banned for life. It's been clear for years that he's one of the dirtiest guys in the league. This was all so obvious watching the games. And they all took so much joy in it on the field and on the sidelines too. Payton should be fired, and the organization should be fined about 10 million bucks. Sounds about right to me. If I was one of the injured players, I would file a lawsuit against Williams, Payton, the Saints, the NFL.

This isn't boxing. The NFL needs to send a BIG message here.

 
Interesting tweet from Chris Harris, who has played for the Bears, Panthers, and Lions over the past few years...

@daringantt doesn't surprise me Everyone does it they're just the ones who got caught. It's part of the NFL culture
Gantt responded by asking him if the coach organized part is uncommon. Harris has always been open about everything, so it will be interesting to see his response.
 
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An interesting writeup on PFT:

NFL finds that Saints violated “bounty rule”

Posted by Mike Florio on March 2, 2012, 3:44 PM EST

Getty Images

No NFL team whose city hosts the Super Bowl has ever played in that game. And the Saints will be launching their effort to do so with a very dark cloud hanging over the franchise.

The league announced Friday afternoon that the Saints violated the “bounty rule” in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Specifically, the NFL has concluded that between 22 and 27 defensive players along with at least one assistant coach maintained a “bounty” program. It was funded primarily by players, with $50,000 or more available during the 2009 playoffs.

Commissioner Roger Goodell will impose discipline. To date, the punishment has not been determined.

“The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for ‘performance,’ but also for injuring opposing players,” Commissioner Goodell said in a league-issued release. “The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.

“It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated. We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it.”

The league’s release says that the program was administered by former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, and that it included payments not only for fumbles and interceptions but also for inflicting injuries that resulted in players being carried off the field ($1,000) and/or knocked out of the game ($1,500).

The release also states that coach Sean Payton, while not involved in the program directly, was aware of it and did nothing to stop it.

General Manager Mickey Loomis also has been implicated; though the relevant portion of the release is a bit unclear, it appears that Loomis may have lied to owner Tom Benson about the existence of a bounty program and/or failed to carry out Benson’s directive that it be ended.

The league will work with the NFLPA to determine the appropriate sanction, and the penalties can include fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choices. Benson may decide to take more drastic action, especially if he believes that Loomis either lied or otherwise defied the owner of the team.

We’ll have much more to come on this one. There is plenty of information to digest in the league’s press release, which the NFL wisely dumped on a late Friday afternoon. Though the league deserves credit for not brushing this under the rug, the NFL has been forced to announce to the world that another one of its teams has been caught cheating — and doing so in a way that encouraged injury to opposing players. Thus, even though the Saints look like anything but, these activities also have applied a black eye to the NFL. It’s no surprise that the news is coming in the one portion of the work-week news cycle where embarrassing stories go to die.
 
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I remember watching the NFC title game two years ago and it really looked like the Saints defense was trying to hurt Brett Favre badly. In retrospect, that was probably a game where a lot of money was collected afterwards.
They were and it worked. They did the same thing in the Cardinals game.
He was being blocked down as he went around the corner.Could it have been called? Sure.

But I would not call that the worst call if its basically a judgement call by a ref and it was not that bad.

 
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This makes total sense. The year they won the superbowl, I thought they were the dirtiest defense i ever saw. Something wasn't right.

 
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He was being blocked down as he went around the corner.
:rolleyes:Like the linked article says, "To be clear, when the league clarified the "Brady rule" it said, "it is not a foul if the defender is blocked [or fouled] into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him." But McCray had every opportunity to avoid Favre, and he was not blocked into him. He was going for the sack and, if that wasn't going to happen, he was going for the pressure."
 
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So if players funded their own bounties, that can't be good from a credibility standpoint when other players decry the NFL's lack of awareness on player safety.

 
hahah

Just asked #Panthers WR Steve Smith about #Saints bounty story. His reaction: "Doesn't surprise me. Wouldn't expect anything less from them"
Wonder why he would think that?
 
Marcellus Wiley, ex NFL player ESPN employee just said, every single team he has been on had a bounty system in place. He also said every single team in the league has one. This is no big deal!

 
Marcellus Wiley, ex NFL player ESPN employee just said, every single team he has been on had a bounty system in place. He also said every single team in the league has one. This is no big deal!
Whether its true or not, its a HUGE deal to be so blatant that you get caught. Now they'll get hammered hard for it, as they should.
 
Marcellus Wiley, ex NFL player ESPN employee just said, every single team he has been on had a bounty system in place. He also said every single team in the league has one. This is no big deal!
And every team in the NBA did under the table deals like the T-Wolves did with the Joe Smith ordeal.But when they were caught, they were punished...severely.It's a big deal.
 

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