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Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

Doug B said:
People have to come to grips with the fact that the American justice system is not set up to bring 100% of guilty people to justice. Because humans are not omniscient, some proportion of the God's-eye-view guilty will always go free. The alternative would be to overreach, and purposefully convict many God's-eye-view innocent people to make sure that the guilty one (even without evidence) is brought to justice. Even then, while the proportion of solved crimes would approach 100%, it still wouldn't actually be 100%.

In short: humans can't know perfect truth, so we do the best we can ... leaning toward some guilty persons necessarily going free.
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:goodposting:

I have very little doubt that this guy is a horrible person, that he "murdered" this kid by any common sense definition of the word, and that if the victim was white he'd be alive today. I also have absolutely no problem with the verdict.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
Even if he did racially profile the guy (which wouldn't be a surprise based on recent incidents in the neighborhood), that still wouldn't necessarily mean he should have been charged with murder. The case revolved around the interaction/fight between the two and Z's actions/reasons for pulling the trigger. Following Martin because of his skin color does not make this murder.
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again...the letter of the law says he had the right to defend himself ...but the zimmy defenders (the last of a dying breed) keep failing to understand that when you profile someone and stalk them because you already made up your mind that because hes black hes up to no good,and you`re armed with a gun , that you have set into motion a chain of events that has a 99.9 % chance of ending badly.Therefor making you responsible for that death.
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I think that they were both at fault. Martin had ample opportunity to get back home and I believe he was the one to initiate contact. If Martin ran home or left Z on the ground beaten and then ran home there would be a 99.9% chance he would be alive today.

 
kentric said:
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
Even if he did racially profile the guy (which wouldn't be a surprise based on recent incidents in the neighborhood), that still wouldn't necessarily mean he should have been charged with murder. The case revolved around the interaction/fight between the two and Z's actions/reasons for pulling the trigger. Following Martin because of his skin color does not make this murder.
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again...the letter of the law says he had the right to defend himself ...but the zimmy defenders (the last of a dying breed) keep failing to understand that when you profile someone and stalk them because you already made up your mind that because hes black hes up to no good,and you`re armed with a gun , that you have set into motion a chain of events that has a 99.9 % chance of ending badly.Therefor making you responsible for that death.
Click to expand...
I think that they were both at fault. Martin had ample opportunity to get back home and I believe he was the one to initiate contact. If Martin ran home or left Z on the ground beaten and then ran home there would be a 99.9% chance he would be alive today.
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see this is what drives me crazy...you make it sound as if it was Zimmy who was walking away from martin and it was martin who decided that zimmy looked suspicious because hes Hispanic and followed him into the dark at night while carrying a loaded gun.

 
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
Even if he did racially profile the guy (which wouldn't be a surprise based on recent incidents in the neighborhood), that still wouldn't necessarily mean he should have been charged with murder. The case revolved around the interaction/fight between the two and Z's actions/reasons for pulling the trigger. Following Martin because of his skin color does not make this murder.
Click to expand...
again...the letter of the law says he had the right to defend himself ...but the zimmy defenders (the last of a dying breed) keep failing to understand that when you profile someone and stalk them because you already made up your mind that because hes black hes up to no good,and you`re armed with a gun , that you have set into motion a chain of events that has a 99.9 % chance of ending badly.Therefor making you responsible for that death.
Click to expand...
I think that they were both at fault. Martin had ample opportunity to get back home and I believe he was the one to initiate contact. If Martin ran home or left Z on the ground beaten and then ran home there would be a 99.9% chance he would be alive today.
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see this is what drives me crazy...you make it sound as if it was Zimmy who was walking away from martin and it was martin who decided that zimmy looked suspicious because hes Hispanic and followed him into the dark at night while carrying a loaded gun.
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:lmao: As opposed to the way you make it sound. His version is a much more rationale and grounded than your spun up stalking version. Zimmy was just on the phone, and it was clear he thought Martin was long gone when he walked back there. He was not stalking.

 
jon_mx said:
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
BustedKnuckles said:
kentric said:
Even if he did racially profile the guy (which wouldn't be a surprise based on recent incidents in the neighborhood), that still wouldn't necessarily mean he should have been charged with murder. The case revolved around the interaction/fight between the two and Z's actions/reasons for pulling the trigger. Following Martin because of his skin color does not make this murder.
Click to expand...
again...the letter of the law says he had the right to defend himself ...but the zimmy defenders (the last of a dying breed) keep failing to understand that when you profile someone and stalk them because you already made up your mind that because hes black hes up to no good,and you`re armed with a gun , that you have set into motion a chain of events that has a 99.9 % chance of ending badly.Therefor making you responsible for that death.
Click to expand...
I think that they were both at fault. Martin had ample opportunity to get back home and I believe he was the one to initiate contact. If Martin ran home or left Z on the ground beaten and then ran home there would be a 99.9% chance he would be alive today.
Click to expand...
see this is what drives me crazy...you make it sound as if it was Zimmy who was walking away from martin and it was martin who decided that zimmy looked suspicious because hes Hispanic and followed him into the dark at night while carrying a loaded gun.
Click to expand...
:lmao: As opposed to the way you make it sound. His version is a much more rationale and grounded than your spun up stalking version. Zimmy was just on the phone, and it was clear he thought Martin was long gone when he walked back there. He was not stalking.
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and you say IM delusional?

 
jon_mx said:
:lmao: As opposed to the way you make it sound. His version is a much more rationale and grounded than your spun up stalking version. Zimmy was just on the phone, and it was clear he thought Martin was long gone when he walked back there. He was not stalking.
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Are you trying a new shtick here? Between stuff like this and the comments about the dead kid "winning" the fight it's hard to tell.

 
Da Guru said:
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Da Guru said:
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Da Guru said:
Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Da Guru said:
avoiding injuries said:
So a few months go by and suddenly everyone who was proven wrong now think they were right all along.
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It is just your "opinion" There is not one of us that will ever know what really happened. That is fact not opinion.
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So nothing was proven a few months ago other than maybe this particular group of prosecutors didn't prove their case to this particular jury?
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Maybe they did prove it. Just was not the outcome you were looking for.
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Maybe who proved what?
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Should have never wandered back in here.

There are 514 pages of testimony in this thread. Just pick out any single page and you are caught up because they are all the same. This thread is the closed thing to Ground Hog Day at FBGs.
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I'll take that as nothing as a not guilty jury verdict only proves that those particular jurors believed that there was enough remaining reasonable doubt to not convict Zimmerman (or OJ) and doesn't prove anything about the actual events of the night.
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And what were the actual events? There will be opinions and speculation on both sides but nobody will ever know unless you witnessed the actual events. I certainly don`t claim to know. Nor does anybody here know.
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Which is why "Maybe they did prove it" makes no sense to me :shrug:

 
Report: George Zimmerman named in 911 road rage call

2:04 p.m. EDT September 12, 2014

George Zimmerman, who was acquitted in 2013 in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, has had another encounter with police in Lake Mary, Fla., this time over an alleged road rage incident, WSVN-TV reports.

The Miami/Ft. Lauderdale TV station on Friday quoted Lake Mary police officers as saying that a man called 911 and accused Zimmerman of threatening to kill him during an alleged road rage encounter this week.

The same person called 911 the following day, claiming that Zimmerman was waiting for him at work and that he feared for his safety. The report quotes police as sayingZimmerman acknowledged to officers that he had exchanged words with the man the previous day.

The man did not want to press charges, according to WSVN.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/12/george-zimmerman-florida-road-rage-police/15512611/
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This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society

 
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Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.

 
cstu said:
Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.
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Agreed. A terrible tragedy and I am with you that both individuals were looking for trouble and it ended badly.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
Report: George Zimmerman named in 911 road rage call

2:04 p.m. EDT September 12, 2014

George Zimmerman, who was acquitted in 2013 in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, has had another encounter with police in Lake Mary, Fla., this time over an alleged road rage incident, WSVN-TV reports.

The Miami/Ft. Lauderdale TV station on Friday quoted Lake Mary police officers as saying that a man called 911 and accused Zimmerman of threatening to kill him during an alleged road rage encounter this week.

The same person called 911 the following day, claiming that Zimmerman was waiting for him at work and that he feared for his safety. The report quotes police as sayingZimmerman acknowledged to officers that he had exchanged words with the man the previous day.

The man did not want to press charges, according to WSVN.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/12/george-zimmerman-florida-road-rage-police/15512611/
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He can't wait to kill again.

 
cstu said:
Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.
Click to expand...
There is little doubt that the temperament of both played a part, but that does not rule out self-defense. If some unknown dude was on top of me throwing punches and not willing to stop despite being asked by a bystander to do so and I had a gun on me which could have been easily accessible to either party (all according to evidence submitted by the prosecution), I could see how it would be reasonable to feel the need to use the gun.

 
This is an impression, it seems that Zimmerman isn't the strongest or most sophisticated guy in regards to his mental state normally. He believes he is innocent and no doubt he gets a rash of #### from some significant percentage of people that recognize him. Probably even got some death threats. I have no doubt his mental state is prone to see possible persecution in any act that most people would see as just your normal dickish behavior by other people. I don't recall him having this kind of problems before the trial, mostly it seemed he liked to be the snitch. Best he gets some counseling. If he can.

 
Imagine the irony if he got into an altercation and someone shot him dead in self defense

 
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jon_mx said:
cstu said:
Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.
Click to expand...
There is little doubt that the temperament of both played a part, but that does not rule out self-defense. If some unknown dude was on top of me throwing punches and not willing to stop despite being asked by a bystander to do so and I had a gun on me which could have been easily accessible to either party (all according to evidence submitted by the prosecution), I could see how it would be reasonable to feel the need to use the gun.
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just admit you were wrong, its not that hard

 
pantherclub said:
jon_mx said:
cstu said:
Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.
Click to expand...
There is little doubt that the temperament of both played a part, but that does not rule out self-defense. If some unknown dude was on top of me throwing punches and not willing to stop despite being asked by a bystander to do so and I had a gun on me which could have been easily accessible to either party (all according to evidence submitted by the prosecution), I could see how it would be reasonable to feel the need to use the gun.
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just admit you were wrong, its not that hard
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wrong_mx

 
The incident began Tuesday morning, when 35-year-old Matthew Apperson made a U-turn on Lake Mary Boulevard and a truck soon pulled up alongside. He recognized the driver as Zimmerman, who reportedly said, "Do you know who I am? I will kill you," reports AP. When Apperson pulled off at a gas to phone police, Zimmerman followed but left before officers arrived. Two days later, Apperson called 911 again when he spotted Zimmerman in his truck, near Apperson's place of work. Zimmerman told officers he had a doctor's appointment nearby.
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http://www.newser.com/story/193835/driver-george-zimmerman-threatened-to-shoot-me.html?utm_source=part&utm_medium=earthlink&utm_campaign=rss_topnews

 
Hot Diggity Dog said:
This is an impression, it seems that Zimmerman isn't the strongest or most sophisticated guy in regards to his mental state normally. He believes he is innocent and no doubt he gets a rash of #### from some significant percentage of people that recognize him. Probably even got some death threats. I have no doubt his mental state is prone to see possible persecution in any act that most people would see as just your normal dickish behavior by other people. I don't recall him having this kind of problems before the trial, mostly it seemed he liked to be the snitch. Best he gets some counseling. If he can.
Click to expand...
Seems like there was more media coverage and discussion of Martin's past than Z's, but Z did have that altercation with a cop a few years before the incident with Martin.

 
jon_mx said:
cstu said:
Todem said:
This guy killed a young man....whether it was justified or not..(and we will never truly know what really happened) and now the fact that he has had some incidents post trial is quite disturbing and ever so curious.

Looking more and more like he is a danger/menace to society
Click to expand...
Now that more has come out about GZ, it looks like Trayvon was killed because two hotheads got together and not out of self-defense. I still believe that Trayvon's actions played a part in his death, but GZ was looking to for a confrontation as well.
Click to expand...
There is little doubt that the temperament of both played a part, but that does not rule out self-defense. If some unknown dude was on top of me throwing punches and not willing to stop despite being asked by a bystander to do so and I had a gun on me which could have been easily accessible to either party (all according to evidence submitted by the prosecution), I could see how it would be reasonable to feel the need to use the gun.
Click to expand...
Stay down, Rocky.

 
Killed a kid, busted into his girlfriend's place with a gun. pulled over with a gun on the front seat, lurking outside a business as a 'security guard' and now road rage. Dude's 100% nuts.

 
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jon_mx said:
pantherclub said:
I wonder if the regular crew on here is ready to admit that they were completely and utterly wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/10/us/george-zimmerman-arrested/index.html
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I never argued he wasn't a piece of trash. But being a loser has nothing to do with his guilt or innocent in the Martin case. He was getting his ### beat by someone who refused to stop....like it or not the circumstances made it justifiable under the law.
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No being a loser has nothing to do with the case, but being an overly aggressive psycho is pretty much the crux of the prosecutions case. I think it is incredibly beyond fair to assume that Zimmerman provoked and instigated the fight.

 
pantherclub said:
jon_mx said:
pantherclub said:
I wonder if the regular crew on here is ready to admit that they were completely and utterly wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/10/us/george-zimmerman-arrested/index.html
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I never argued he wasn't a piece of trash. But being a loser has nothing to do with his guilt or innocent in the Martin case. He was getting his ### beat by someone who refused to stop....like it or not the circumstances made it justifiable under the law.
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No being a loser has nothing to do with the case, but being an overly aggressive psycho is pretty much the crux of the prosecutions case. I think it is incredibly beyond fair to assume that Zimmerman provoked and instigated the fight.
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Except there was zero evidence that is the way it went down. Every early narrative which convicted Zimmerman in the court of public opinion was blown away by the evidence, now you are just clinging on to your bias to convict him.

 
One guy has a fight at school and he's a degenerate, ruthless, irredeemable thug.

One guy kills someone, beats up his wife, threatens her with a gun on a separate occassion, is involved in numerous other angry confrontations and, still, the only explanation for what happened that night is that Zimmerman was defending himself.

 
wdcrob said:
One guy has a fight at school and he's a degenerate, ruthless, irredeemable thug.

One guy kills someone, beats up his wife, threatens her with a gun on a separate occassion, is involved in numerous other angry confrontations and, still, the only explanation for what happened that night is that Zimmerman was defending himself.
Click to expand...
Fact is Martin was on top of Zimmerman kicking his ### and did not stop. Fact Zimmerman had a gun which created a life-threatening situation. Any other things you wish to assume are basically irrelevant. They both had chips on their shoulder and both contributed to being in a bad situation which ended tragically. End of story. End of discussion. End of thread. :shrug:

 
I'm really surprised any TM supporter would bump this thread. GZ could go on a sadistic killing spree and it wouldn't change the evidence from the previous case. Just let it go.

 
avoiding injuries said:
I'm really surprised any TM supporter would bump this thread. GZ could go on a sadistic killing spree and it wouldn't change the evidence from the previous case. Just let it go.
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Sure, but you still dont think its possible given what that meathead has done since, that you know actually provoked the fight?

 
pantherclub said:
avoiding injuries said:
I'm really surprised any TM supporter would bump this thread. GZ could go on a sadistic killing spree and it wouldn't change the evidence from the previous case. Just let it go.
Click to expand...
Sure, but you still dont think its possible given what that meathead has done since, that you know actually provoked the fight?
Click to expand...
This one event in Zimmerman's life (the Trayvon incident) may have been the cause for him to go coo-coo. We don't know if he was always like this or if killing Trayvon made him go a little crazy inside. We don't know because nobody, on this board, I know of has met him. Its that whole glass houses and stones thing.

 
Mario Kart said:
pantherclub said:
avoiding injuries said:
I'm really surprised any TM supporter would bump this thread. GZ could go on a sadistic killing spree and it wouldn't change the evidence from the previous case. Just let it go.
Click to expand...
Sure, but you still dont think its possible given what that meathead has done since, that you know actually provoked the fight?
Click to expand...
This one event in Zimmerman's life (the Trayvon incident) may have been the cause for him to go coo-coo. We don't know if he was always like this or if killing Trayvon made him go a little crazy inside. We don't know because nobody, on this board, I know of has met him. Its that whole glass houses and stones thing.
Click to expand...
lol

 
pantherclub said:
Mario Kart said:
pantherclub said:
avoiding injuries said:
I'm really surprised any TM supporter would bump this thread. GZ could go on a sadistic killing spree and it wouldn't change the evidence from the previous case. Just let it go.
Click to expand...
Sure, but you still dont think its possible given what that meathead has done since, that you know actually provoked the fight?
Click to expand...
This one event in Zimmerman's life (the Trayvon incident) may have been the cause for him to go coo-coo. We don't know if he was always like this or if killing Trayvon made him go a little crazy inside. We don't know because nobody, on this board, I know of has met him. Its that whole glass houses and stones thing.
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lol
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Based on Zimmy`s history of violence BEFORE the trey shooting and then this from his staunchest supporter ....

Frank Taaffe vocally supported George Zimmerman throughout his trial and told the media his friend 'became the victim' following the 2012 death of Trayvon Martin. Now, Taaffe says he believes Zimmerman racially profiled Martin and is guilty of murder....says all we have to know about who zimmy was

 
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jon_mx said:
wdcrob said:
One guy has a fight at school and he's a degenerate, ruthless, irredeemable thug.

One guy kills someone, beats up his wife, threatens her with a gun on a separate occassion, is involved in numerous other angry confrontations and, still, the only explanation for what happened that night is that Zimmerman was defending himself.
Click to expand...
Fact is Martin was on top of Zimmerman kicking his ### and did not stop. Fact Zimmerman had a gun which created a life-threatening situation. Any other things you wish to assume are basically irrelevant. They both had chips on their shoulder and both contributed to being in a bad situation which ended tragically. End of story. End of discussion. End of thread. :shrug:
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Treyvon was targeted and he was the one defending himself...and was then murdered in the process

 
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It's okay to admit you're wrong. The prosecution had the the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. They were unable to. It happens all the time to guilty people. Continuing to defend him only makes you look stupid.

 
Bucky86 said:
It's okay to admit you're wrong. The prosecution had the the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. They were unable to. It happens all the time to guilty people. Continuing to defend him only makes you look stupid.
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I agree, I think at this point you would have to be close to brain dead to believe Zimmys version of events.

 
pantherclub said:
Bucky86 said:
It's okay to admit you're wrong. The prosecution had the the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. They were unable to. It happens all the time to guilty people. Continuing to defend him only makes you look stupid.
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I agree, I think at this point you would have to be close to brain dead to believe Zimmys version of events.
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And ONLY zimmys version to go by

 
pantherclub said:
Bucky86 said:
It's okay to admit you're wrong. The prosecution had the the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. They were unable to. It happens all the time to guilty people. Continuing to defend him only makes you look stupid.
Click to expand...
I agree, I think at this point you would have to be close to brain dead to believe Zimmys version of events.
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What is your braindead version of events? Are you mornic enough to believe it was Martin screaming for his life in the background of the 911 call? There was no version of events presented by the prosecution, because NOTHING they could piece together added up to murder.

 
jon_mx said:
pantherclub said:
Bucky86 said:
It's okay to admit you're wrong. The prosecution had the the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was guilty. They were unable to. It happens all the time to guilty people. Continuing to defend him only makes you look stupid.
Click to expand...
I agree, I think at this point you would have to be close to brain dead to believe Zimmys version of events.
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What is your braindead version of events? Are you mornic enough to believe it was Martin screaming for his life in the background of the 911 call? There was no version of events presented by the prosecution, because NOTHING they could piece together added up to murder.
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im gonna get a cat and name it zimmy...because he will have 9 lives

 
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