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Should voters be required to show ID?

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If everyone had free ID cards, would there still be an issue with requiring people to provide them before voting? This seems like an easy fix.

this seems like an easy compromise, provide free photo ids, and then require them. Make the law far enough in advance that everyone has a year to get the new free id if they need it.simple

This* seems, fine, but it would cost a fair amount of money. Would it be worth it?____*I'm imagining a scenario where a person approaches the voting booth, and there's a government agent there to ask his name, snap a picture, and give him an ID card right there on the spot, for free, which he can then show to the person who gave it to him in order to validate his identity.

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If everyone had free ID cards, would there still be an issue with requiring people to provide them before voting? This seems like an easy fix.

this seems like an easy compromise, provide free photo ids, and then require them. Make the law far enough in advance that everyone has a year to get the new free id if they need it.simple

This* seems, fine, but it would cost a fair amount of money. Would it be worth it?____*I'm imagining a scenario where a person approaches the voting booth, and there's a government agent there to ask his name, snap a picture, and give him an ID card right there on the spot, for free, which he can then show to the person who gave it to him in order to validate his identity.
i am not sure it has to be quite as instant as you say.as for the money question, i don;t know if it is worth it. The GOP seems to think the integrity of our nation is at risk, if so they had better think it is worth it

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If the government required everyone to have a stuffed unicorn to be able to vote, I could vote very easily but it might be more difficult for you.* Even if there was a government office that sold or gave away stuffed unicorns.*I am guessing that you do not already own a stuffed unicorn.

But it would be equally difficult for any individuals that did not have stuffed unicorns to acquire one.
Sure, but it's more difficult for all of them than it is for me.

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so where do i go to get these stuffed unicorns everyone is talking about.

Frankly, I can't understand how all these people manage to live their lives without already having a stuffed unicorn.

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If everyone had free ID cards, would there still be an issue with requiring people to provide them before voting? This seems like an easy fix.

this seems like an easy compromise, provide free photo ids, and then require them. Make the law far enough in advance that everyone has a year to get the new free id if they need it.simple

This* seems, fine, but it would cost a fair amount of money. Would it be worth it?____*I'm imagining a scenario where a person approaches the voting booth, and there's a government agent there to ask his name, snap a picture, and give him an ID card right there on the spot, for free, which he can then show to the person who gave it to him in order to validate his identity.
i am not sure it has to be quite as instant as you say.
It ought to be. Even though the California DMV takes a few weeks to issue an ID, plenty of casinos will issue picture IDs (in the form of player's reward cards) instantly, on the spot. For free. So the technology exists. And the longer it takes to get an ID, the fewer people will get one before it's time to vote. So why not issue them instantly right there at the voting booth? Everyone who shows up gets one. Easy solution.

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If everyone had free ID cards, would there still be an issue with requiring people to provide them before voting? This seems like an easy fix.

this seems like an easy compromise, provide free photo ids, and then require them. Make the law far enough in advance that everyone has a year to get the new free id if they need it.simple

This* seems, fine, but it would cost a fair amount of money. Would it be worth it?____*I'm imagining a scenario where a person approaches the voting booth, and there's a government agent there to ask his name, snap a picture, and give him an ID card right there on the spot, for free, which he can then show to the person who gave it to him in order to validate his identity.
i am not sure it has to be quite as instant as you say.
It ought to be. Even though the California DMV takes a few weeks to issue an ID, plenty of casinos will issue picture ID's (in the form of player's reward cards) instantly, on the spot. For free. So the technology exists. And the longer it takes to get an ID, the fewer people will get one before it's time to vote. So why not issue them instantly right there at the voting booth? Everyone who shows up gets one. Easy solution.
well i'd extend voting to a week, so i am probably the wrong person to askin ohio we get our IDs the same day

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in ohio we get our IDs the same day

What do you need to show in order to get one?In California, I got my driver's license by filling out a form, taking a written test, posing for a picture, and paying $31. They never asked for my birth certificate or even my Costco card. They accepted my identity just on my own say-so.

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in ohio we get our IDs the same day

What do you need to show in order to get one?In California, I got my driver's license by filling out a form, taking a written test, posing for a picture, and paying $31. They never asked for my birth certificate or even my Costco card. They accepted my identity just on my own say-so.
i guess now that i think of it, this is only for renewalsi am not sure what i had to show to get a license the first time

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so where do i go to get these stuffed unicorns everyone is talking about.

Have a toddler daughter. You'll be swimming in them.

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in ohio we get our IDs the same day

What do you need to show in order to get one?

In California, I got my driver's license by filling out a form, taking a written test, posing for a picture, and paying $31. They never asked for my birth certificate or even my Costco card. They accepted my identity just on my own say-so.

in TN, you have to have two forms of identification to get a DL. http://www.tn.gov/safety/driverlicense/dlidentify.shtml

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Ok...we can switch to that. When I go into a trial, my testimony is considered with the rest of the evidence as part of the overall story. It's not the be-all-end-all. Then a jury goes and determines if I am lying or not. Granted, taxes, your correct. However, the IRS reserves the right to audit us also. Not quite like a person going in and simply telling some retiree they are person X, the retiree not having the authority to question them or ask for more proof etc.If you were going to compare apples to apples between a trial and walking in to vote, in a trial, you'd just need a person sitting there saying "he did it" and the jury having to accept his testimony as fact.

And if you walk into the same polling place 10 times or get recognized at any of them, you go to jail. And for what? A couple of extra votes for a candidate? Stupid.
They don't have to prove that it was you at all those places?

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in ohio we get our IDs the same day

What do you need to show in order to get one?

In California, I got my driver's license by filling out a form, taking a written test, posing for a picture, and paying $31. They never asked for my birth certificate or even my Costco card. They accepted my identity just on my own say-so.

in TN, you have to have two forms of identification to get a DL. http://www.tn.gov/safety/driverlicense/dlidentify.shtml
I just looked up the California requirements. They require a social security number, which I don't specifically remember giving, but I'm sure I did if there was a place for it on the form. They require giving a thumb print, which I do remember giving.

It also says they require ID to prove your name and birth date. I do remember not having to show any ID at all at any point in the process; I remember being fairly surprised by it. (I'd brought ID with me; I just never got it out.)

But I guess I was already in the system because I'd had a California driver's license when I was in high school. So that may explain it. When I got my CA license for the first time, they must have required a birth certificate or something. So never mind.

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote.

I don't get it either, but that's the argument.

:goodposting:

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We're talking about a voter ID card here which presumably does nothing for you besides proving you're the voter on record during elections. Maurile's solution would work fine IMO, especially the first time around, but going prior to that, you could implement this at offices where ID's are already issued, which would eventually be the place to go, and the ID card would be provided when you register to vote the first time.

I see plenty of urban outdoorsman at the courthouse downtown, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to go inside to get a free card and portrait for their wallet.

Edited by jplvr

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...

Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

Edited by 17seconds

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.
What are your feelings about my stuffed unicorn law? I won't make it too tough to get a unicorn.

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How do prove voter fraud with out an id? It's like writing a speeding ticket with no radar.

"I'm Janet Jones.""Janet Jones has already voted."
And if the fake Janet Jones shows up first with no id what happens to the victim of the identity theft?

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.
What are your feelings about my stuffed unicorn law? I won't make it too tough to get a unicorn.
No problems with it at all. If I had to pick up a stuffed unicorn to vote, I'd do so. The actual, real-life process of registering to vote when I moved to the state was at least as inconvenient as that.Edit: The actual process of voting, which requires that I drive 15 minutes each way to a rural town that I neither live nor work in is WAY more inconvenient than either of those, so I'm not very sympathetic to this argument. Edited by IvanKaramazov

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

Similarly, the left is arguing that the burden is on the government which is burdening a right to show the necessity. The right is arguing that as long as the burden added to the right doesn't seem so bad, it's up to the individual to prove why you don't need it.

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop? Edited by Chaka

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the costtherein is the rub

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in ohio we get our IDs the same day

What do you need to show in order to get one?In California, I got my driver's license by filling out a form, taking a written test, posing for a picture, and paying $31. They never asked for my birth certificate or even my Costco card. They accepted my identity just on my own say-so.
Were you moving here and already had a driver's license in a different state? I can't remember if I had to show mine, but they may have access to that information when you apply.

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the costtherein is the rub
But, see, I think you feel that way because you don't want barriers for voting.We require ID for all manner of other things. There's no reason why you'd think voting should be different unless you believe it should be as inclusive as possible. That's my point.

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the costtherein is the rub
How about as I asked earlier. Bring some sort of ID. A bill with your name on it, a credit card, a library card.Is that too much to ask?

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the costtherein is the rub
If someone can't figure that out and doesn't have $10 for a duplicate birth certificate then they should not be voting.

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FOR EXAMPLE

having a check box on the same form as a $28 id that makes it a free id and sending a memo to DMV workers telling them NOT to point that out to people does nothing to improve the integrity of an election, it is putting up obstacles

on the other hand, providing a free id with sufficent evidence required to obtain it, sufficient places to obtain it, and sufficient time to obtain it prior to an election does NOT amount to an attempt to screw minorities and elderly

somehow we are completely unable to find any sort of a compromise here

because neither side wants to, this is a tool both sides love

the GOP loves playing the "dems never win elections they steal them" card and the dems love playing the "GOP hates poor people and wants their votes not to count!" card

this should not be hard to solve, there is some cost, but if it makes elections more secure it is worht it. The problem is no one in power wants it solved

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...

Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the matter

a liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require should

the truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides

Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the cost

therein is the rub

If someone can't figure that out and doesn't have $10 for a duplicate birth certificate then they should not be voting.
a liberal spin would be:

so in other words poor people don't deserve the vote

:shrug:

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There's a philosophical difference that nobody has mentioned directly...Liberals believe that every adult inside the US with a pulse should be able to vote. The bar should be very low because it's a fundamental right, without qualification. Conservatives believe you should be legally qualified and able prove it.

a conservative spin on the mattera liberal spin would be everyone eligible to vote should be allowed to, the conservatives think only those who have jumped through whatever hoops they require shouldthe truth is in the middle, but this is no longer a fraud or right to vote issue, it's a political tool used by both sides
Being able to demonstrate you are who you say you are is a hoop?
that would depend on HOW you do that, what is required, and the costtherein is the rub
How about as I asked earlier. Bring some sort of ID. A bill with your name on it, a credit card, a library card.Is that too much to ask?
the devil is in the detailson its face this is easy to solvein practice it is not, because there are agendas

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this should not be hard to solve, there is some cost, but if it makes elections more secure it is worht it. The problem is no one in power wants it solved

Here's the rub.Some people, including myself, don't actually believe that Voter IDs make elections more secure. As much as "voter fraud" gets bantered around nobody actually ever finds real examples of somebody trying to vote as somebody else. And even if we would enact this, people can still vote absentee without an ID. So why do we keep pursuing it?

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and that's how we get where we are

NOTHING is easy anymore, if one side wants it the other has to oppose it, nature of the beast

so who cares if there is voter fraud, none of it matters worth a damn anyway

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this should not be hard to solve, there is some cost, but if it makes elections more secure it is worht it. The problem is no one in power wants it solved

Here's the rub.Some people, including myself, don't actually believe that Voter IDs make elections more secure. As much as "voter fraud" gets bantered around nobody actually ever finds real examples of somebody trying to vote as somebody else. And even if we would enact this, people can still vote absentee without an ID. So why do we keep pursuing it?
Exactly. How does anyone doing a cost/benefit analysis come to the conclusion that we need to pour 10s of millions of dollars into a "voter ID" program?NCC is dead on - this is a solution searching for a problem.

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and that's how we get where we are

NOTHING is easy anymore, if one side wants it the other has to oppose it, nature of the beast

so who cares if there is voter fraud, none of it matters worth a damn anyway

It's not that simple!

Everyone is so gaga over the idea that everything is just ####### partisan and nothing means anything any more. I'm ####### sick of it.

If I said I was afraid of illegal babies being born to non-American mothers married to American husbands, so wanted to require DNA testing of all newborns and match against their purported American fathers, someone doesn't need a political agenda to oppose it. It's just a stupid ####### idea.

Voting IDs are just a stupid ####### idea.

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.
I haven't gotten this at all. It's the opposite, or so it seems. If it's a herculean effort to get an ID, then it's probably best that they AREN'T voting. What am I missing?

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.
I haven't gotten this at all. It's the opposite, or so it seems. If it's a herculean effort to get an ID, then it's probably best that they AREN'T voting. What am I missing?
Try reading my post again, only this time imagine me using my "sarcastic" voice.

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and that's how we get where we are

NOTHING is easy anymore, if one side wants it the other has to oppose it, nature of the beast

so who cares if there is voter fraud, none of it matters worth a damn anyway

It's not that simple!

Everyone is so gaga over the idea that everything is just ####### partisan and nothing means anything any more. I'm ####### sick of it.

If I said I was afraid of illegal babies being born to non-American mothers married to American husbands, so wanted to require DNA testing of all newborns and match against their purported American fathers, someone doesn't need a political agenda to oppose it. It's just a stupid ####### idea.

Voting IDs are just a stupid ####### idea.

i think requiring some proof of who is voting is common sense

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i think requiring some proof of who is voting is common sense

It doesn't make sense to take the vote away from approx. 15% of the country when there is zero or almost zero evidence that anybody has ever voted as somebody else.That doesn't make common sense. It's spending $20,000/yr to buy earthquake insurance in the middle of Kansas.

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If you don't have a drivers license it is easy enough to get an ID card, at least in Pennsylvania it is. I don't think it is too much to ask for the voter for the sake of reducing fraud.

If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that there are a large number of people out there for whom it requires a herculean effort to swing by the DMV to pick up a free ID. And even though these people are apparently completely incapable of navigating their way through life, it's extremely important that they vote. I don't get it either, but that's the argument.
I haven't gotten this at all. It's the opposite, or so it seems. If it's a herculean effort to get an ID, then it's probably best that they AREN'T voting. What am I missing?
Try reading my post again, only this time imagine me using my "sarcastic" voice.
:bag: Sorry....I haven't had much interaction with you lately and I never know in these threads.

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i think requiring some proof of who is voting is common sense

It doesn't make sense to take the vote away from approx. 15% of the country when there is zero or almost zero evidence that anybody has ever voted as somebody else.That doesn't make common sense. It's spending $20,000/yr to buy earthquake insurance in the middle of Kansas.
Why do you think people would be so apathetic as to not get a free voter ID card? They make it to the polls already.

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