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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with another late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.
Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.
No, that's how you save a roster spot for players I really backed like Knowshon Moreno.
I'm fine with you saying you didn't like Wilson etc. etc. but you're a riot.

You're saying that Wilson, in what would be his 3rd season is already a bust? But Knowshon who had the same issues w/ fumbling as Wilson, you somehow knew that the 5th season would be his sweet spot to explode and kept holding him in dynasty?

Give me a break.
I don't think he really thinks through his posts before hitting submit.

 
I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with another late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.
Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.
No, that's how you save a roster spot for players I really backed like Knowshon Moreno.
I'm fine with you saying you didn't like Wilson etc. etc. but you're a riot.

You're saying that Wilson, in what would be his 3rd season is already a bust? But Knowshon who had the same issues w/ fumbling as Wilson, you somehow knew that the 5th season would be his sweet spot to explode and kept holding him in dynasty?

Give me a break.
I don't think he really thinks through his posts before hitting submit.
There is no need to at this point of the thread
 
I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with another late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.
Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.
No, that's how you save a roster spot for players I really backed like Knowshon Moreno.
I'm fine with you saying you didn't like Wilson etc. etc. but you're a riot.

You're saying that Wilson, in what would be his 3rd season is already a bust? But Knowshon who had the same issues w/ fumbling as Wilson, you somehow knew that the 5th season would be his sweet spot to explode and kept holding him in dynasty?

Give me a break.
I don't think he really thinks through his posts before hitting submit.
There is no need to at this point of the thread
Disagree with this completely. Wilson at last year's RB1 prices wasn't worthy of much thought or discussion IMO -- just a no brainer "pass.". At this year's (likely) rock bottom prices, he becomes much more intriguing IMO.

 
I can't understand how you can be anymore than cautiously optimistic about Wilson when it's not a 100% guarantee that he will even lead the team in carries, let alone be the next stud RB. I care no more about Wilson than I do Lamar Miller- which means "hopeful," but I'm putting all of my chips down. If he was so great he wouldn't have flopped so hard to start the season. He had a 40-yard TD late in a Browns blowout. Outside of that run he had 27 carries for 71 yards through week 10. 6 carries for 8 yards his first 3 weeks. Weeks 8-12 13 carries for 25 yards. He destroyed NO with another late run in a blowout but thats not saying much. The week after with the playoff on the line vs ATL Coughlin had him split carries with another journeymen, Kregg Lumpkin... Now when the game is on the line you expect Caughlin to sit a healthy Andre Brown for David Wilson? I will believe that when I see it. Wilson was more awful than not last season.

Wilson will be fine in the NFL. Plenty of solid RB's would be fine being the main carry RB for the NYG. I'm not hopping on the top-10 bandwagon anytime soon. Andre Brown is a better bargin at current ADP.
Buying low before a breakout is the key to dynasty fantasy football. Your post is a manual on how to suck.
No, that's how you save a roster spot for players I really backed like Knowshon Moreno.
I'm fine with you saying you didn't like Wilson etc. etc. but you're a riot.

You're saying that Wilson, in what would be his 3rd season is already a bust? But Knowshon who had the same issues w/ fumbling as Wilson, you somehow knew that the 5th season would be his sweet spot to explode and kept holding him in dynasty?

Give me a break.
I don't think he really thinks through his posts before hitting submit.
There is no need to at this point of the thread
Disagree with this completely. Wilson at last year's RB1 prices wasn't worthy of much thought or discussion IMO -- just a no brainer "pass.". At this year's (likely) rock bottom prices, he becomes much more intriguing IMO.
I was throwing a jab, but good point. I definitely learned not to get to high on these can't miss rookies from the past few seasons. I can safely say there will be a good time to buy and a good time to sell 99.9% of players. There aren't too many players, if any, who's value is hiccup free throughout their career. Wilson is no exception. I actually think the market is closer to being correct this time around.
 
What a mess. Jennings is a career backup, Hillis was laying tile when he got the call and Wilson might be ready for contact by training camp but anything he does will be gravy. Ugh. That being said, they didn't add anyone at RB in the draft. With all the chumps on the roster, Wilson has a solid shot at starting if he's healthy. Don't drop the ball, jackass
Yes they did, Andre Williams.
a 4th round pick is addressing the RB situation? That's adding depth (very shallow depth) and a special teamer 90% of the time.
You said " they didn't add anyone at RB in the draft". They did.
Sorry, in my head I wrote that as, "They didn't do much in the draft to address RB," not that they didn't grab anybody. They grabbed a body, but that's about it. Had they felt that the RB position was in bad shape, they would've taken one earlier (the 11th pick in the second could've gotten them the pick of the litter). So that begs the next question, who do the Giants think will tote the rock for them? Is it Jennings? Hillis? The 4th round rookie, who despite the many exceptions listed is very much a long shot to be a starter? Just maybe it's Wilson. Maybe the rook tears it up. He will undoubtedly get a chance to win the starting job considering the competition and the opportunity is a huge part of the battle...
Hahaha

The nations leading rusher is "a body".

Riiiiiiiiight...

 
Bramel breakdown in reverse chrono

Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Not always consensus on clearing a player to play w/ spinal stenosis. Some use extent of narrowing. Others rely more on pain, ROM, strength.

Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Wrote some general thoughts on cervical spinal stenosis in this Jarvis Jones article last spring ~ bramelsecondopinion.com/2013/02/21/com…

Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Tone of reports today feel more like "waiting for graft to heal" rather than "may still be too much narrowing" ~ but it's hard to know.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
However, it's also possible that there remains concern about amount of narrowing (stenosis) in the spinal column after fusion.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Sense is that's the hold up in clearance for contact. But the "optimism" from those on beat suggests the graft is showing interval healing.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
But that doesn't mean Wilson's bone graft has fully healed. Often takes ~ 3 mo. He's now 4+ months from the surgery.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Wilson's lack of pain after surgery, clearance to lift and workout suggest some stability aft fusion, no residual weakness. That's good.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Failing to gain clearance after MRI today is a worry, but we haven't been told exactly why. So it's hard to know how much of setback it is.
Jene Bramel @JeneBramel
Surgical picture with David Wilson has been confusing from the start. Seemed care team tried hard to avoid surgery initially, then relented.
 
Team doctor quote sounds good

Giants team doctor Russell Warren said he anticipates David Wilson (neck) gaining full medical clearance when he is re-evaluated prior to the start of training camp.

"There has been significant progress and healing since David had the fusion," said Dr. Warren. "But the reality is it has only been four and one-half months since the surgery. We anticipate that when David is re-evaluated at the start of training camp he will be cleared at that point." Though it may be disappointing for Wilson that he wasn't cleared today, he insists "everything I got this morning was good news." The Giants open camp on July 21.Wilson will have his next meeting with the doctors probably a few days prior to that.

 
Mike James before him? I don't understand some people. Mike James is maybe the 3rd best back on his team. No chance of seeing any playing time without significant injuries.

Wilson is by far the most talented back in the Giants. The only question is his health. Who would prefer a guy like James over Wilson. Even if I knew Wilson could only play 1 more year, I'd still take a shot at him being elite for that 1 year then having to roster Mike James for several years.
Wilson went 12.01 in my startup as the 40th back off the board. I took Andre Williams at 12.10. I was big on Wilson coming out of college. I had the 1.2 & 1.3 pick and took Wilson and Blackmon (I'm a genius). I was so blinded by his athleticism, I think I may have taken him over Richardson. I cut bait after his injury and sold him for McFadden.

I think the majority overlook the fact that Wilson underproduced even when healthy. He had limited carries his rookie year and appeared headed down the same route in year 2. He is not patient, so he doesn't consistently maximize his athleticism. I concluded better suited as a cop back ala Lamar Miller. Williams' athletic profile is just as impressive, so I favor him even if Wilson is cleared for full contact.

 
Nero said:
Mike James before him? I don't understand some people. Mike James is maybe the 3rd best back on his team. No chance of seeing any playing time without significant injuries.

Wilson is by far the most talented back in the Giants. The only question is his health. Who would prefer a guy like James over Wilson. Even if I knew Wilson could only play 1 more year, I'd still take a shot at him being elite for that 1 year then having to roster Mike James for several years.
Wilson went 12.01 in my startup as the 40th back off the board. I took Andre Williams at 12.10.I was big on Wilson coming out of college. I had the 1.2 & 1.3 pick and took Wilson and Blackmon (I'm a genius). I was so blinded by his athleticism, I think I may have taken him over Richardson. I cut bait after his injury and sold him for McFadden.

I think the majority overlook the fact that Wilson underproduced even when healthy. He had limited carries his rookie year and appeared headed down the same route in year 2. He is not patient, so he doesn't consistently maximize his athleticism. I concluded better suited as a cop back ala Lamar Miller. Williams' athletic profile is just as impressive, so I favor him even if Wilson is cleared for full contact.
Wilson never was really given a chance when healthy though. How can you say that?

 
Nero said:
Mike James before him? I don't understand some people. Mike James is maybe the 3rd best back on his team. No chance of seeing any playing time without significant injuries.

Wilson is by far the most talented back in the Giants. The only question is his health. Who would prefer a guy like James over Wilson. Even if I knew Wilson could only play 1 more year, I'd still take a shot at him being elite for that 1 year then having to roster Mike James for several years.
Wilson went 12.01 in my startup as the 40th back off the board. I took Andre Williams at 12.10.I was big on Wilson coming out of college. I had the 1.2 & 1.3 pick and took Wilson and Blackmon (I'm a genius). I was so blinded by his athleticism, I think I may have taken him over Richardson. I cut bait after his injury and sold him for McFadden.

I think the majority overlook the fact that Wilson underproduced even when healthy. He had limited carries his rookie year and appeared headed down the same route in year 2. He is not patient, so he doesn't consistently maximize his athleticism. I concluded better suited as a cop back ala Lamar Miller. Williams' athletic profile is just as impressive, so I favor him even if Wilson is cleared for full contact.
Wilson never was really given a chance when healthy though. How can you say that?
He was given a chance; he fumbled it as I recall.

 
Nero said:
Mike James before him? I don't understand some people. Mike James is maybe the 3rd best back on his team. No chance of seeing any playing time without significant injuries.

Wilson is by far the most talented back in the Giants. The only question is his health. Who would prefer a guy like James over Wilson. Even if I knew Wilson could only play 1 more year, I'd still take a shot at him being elite for that 1 year then having to roster Mike James for several years.
Wilson went 12.01 in my startup as the 40th back off the board. I took Andre Williams at 12.10.I was big on Wilson coming out of college. I had the 1.2 & 1.3 pick and took Wilson and Blackmon (I'm a genius). I was so blinded by his athleticism, I think I may have taken him over Richardson. I cut bait after his injury and sold him for McFadden.

I think the majority overlook the fact that Wilson underproduced even when healthy. He had limited carries his rookie year and appeared headed down the same route in year 2. He is not patient, so he doesn't consistently maximize his athleticism. I concluded better suited as a cop back ala Lamar Miller. Williams' athletic profile is just as impressive, so I favor him even if Wilson is cleared for full contact.
Wilson never was really given a chance when healthy though. How can you say that?
He was given a chance; he fumbled it as I recall.
The only games he ever fumbled in were the first game of each of his 2 seasons. Can you chalk that up to jitters? Maybe. We don't know because he hasn't had a chance to show us yet.

The latest reports on his neck are much more positive than they were initially so hopefully he gets another shot. Hopefully the o-line can stay healthy too. Our awesome new secondary is already falling apart.

 
Nero said:
Mike James before him? I don't understand some people. Mike James is maybe the 3rd best back on his team. No chance of seeing any playing time without significant injuries.

Wilson is by far the most talented back in the Giants. The only question is his health. Who would prefer a guy like James over Wilson. Even if I knew Wilson could only play 1 more year, I'd still take a shot at him being elite for that 1 year then having to roster Mike James for several years.
Wilson went 12.01 in my startup as the 40th back off the board. I took Andre Williams at 12.10.I was big on Wilson coming out of college. I had the 1.2 & 1.3 pick and took Wilson and Blackmon (I'm a genius). I was so blinded by his athleticism, I think I may have taken him over Richardson. I cut bait after his injury and sold him for McFadden.

I think the majority overlook the fact that Wilson underproduced even when healthy. He had limited carries his rookie year and appeared headed down the same route in year 2. He is not patient, so he doesn't consistently maximize his athleticism. I concluded better suited as a cop back ala Lamar Miller. Williams' athletic profile is just as impressive, so I favor him even if Wilson is cleared for full contact.
Wilson never was really given a chance when healthy though. How can you say that?
He was given a chance; he fumbled it as I recall.
The only games he ever fumbled in were the first game of each of his 2 seasons. Can you chalk that up to jitters? Maybe. We don't know because he hasn't had a chance to show us yet.

The latest reports on his neck are much more positive than they were initially so hopefully he gets another shot. Hopefully the o-line can stay healthy too. Our awesome new secondary is already falling apart.
Yeah see, I'm with you on this one. Is it ridiculous that he can't shake the jitters and just blow up based on his talent? Sure, suck it up kiddo and play. That said, Coughlin never gave him a fighting chance and never believed in his talent. If everyone in the public and media knew that obviously Wilson knew himself. Some people take that stuff to heart and can't get past it, others thrive on that negative energy and explode and use it as fuel. Obviously, Wilson couldn't deal with Grandpa Tom's lack fo trust in him and can't put it all together yet. It's clear that it was really a bunch of jitters as after those first games he was fine every time in terms of his fumbling issues.

If he's healthy going into this season, it may finally be the year we see him start to blow up. Again, bear in mind... he's still younger than some of the rookie RBs coming into this season (Terrance West comes to mind). Thinking something along the lines of a worse CJ Spiller 2012 season. Somewhere in the range of 150-200 carries and he can build up his confidence and hopefully not fumble. These past two seasons he went in there with the intention on running with a starting position. The gitters combined with Tom's lack of confidence in him got to him. This year, he'll be coming in with really no expectations. A lot of people aren't even expecting him to play. Now he'll finally be in a position where there's very little pressure on him and he can just relax and prove it. He'll clearly start the season behind Jennings and come into spell Jennings on a couple drives here and there. And if he keeps showing more and more McAdoo will use him more and more.

He's the type of guy who can do a lot in the style of offense we're expecting out of McAddo. So if given the chance I'd expect some big things. McAddo is going to be running 3 wide base sets with a single backfield runner more often than not. It's going to really spread out the defense and allow for a lot of running and passing lanes for the RBs.

It should be really interesting to see this season unfold if Wilson is cleared in time for training camp as is currently expected by Wilson & the team doctors.

 
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Rotoworld:

David Wilson - RB - Giants

Giants GM Jerry Reese expects David Wilson (neck) to be all systems go during training camp.

"We do think all systems are go pretty much for him to be healthy and ready for contact during training camp," Reese said. "Unless he has a setback we expect to release him for full contact during the fall. … In this West Coast Offense, we’ll try to get the ball to him in different ways and obviously he’ll help in the return game." Reese talked up Rashad Jennings as a "bell cow" at running back. The Giants are also high on rookie RB Andre Williams. Wilson appears ticketed for a change-of-pace role, as long as Jennings stays healthy.

Source: CBS New York

Jun 23 - 6:50 PM
 
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?

 
I'm guessing that more people are selling than buying Wilson now. Shame. He really looked like he could have been the next great dynamic back in this league. But the Giants have fallen and fallen hard in just a year or two. I don't think we will get going forward what we got in those sweet spot years from Giants fantasy players.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.
His ability to take on a full load in terms of NFL wear and tear was an issue - and he did nothing to dispel that last year.

Ball control - same thing.

Man, are the blinders back on this guy already?

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.
His ability to take on a full load in terms of NFL wear and tear was an issue - and he did nothing to dispel that last year.

Ball control - same thing.

Man, are the blinders back on this guy already?
No, it was never an issue. You made it into an issue but it never was and still isn't. He had never even been injured once in his entire career coming into the league. He just so happens to have a spinal defect, but that has nothing to do with his size. Michael Irvin has the same condition, was Michael Irvin to small for the NFL?

Ball control, sure. Gio fumbled too did he not?

It's not a matter of blinders, it's a matter of unproven nonsense being used as reasons to dislike someone. Size =/= injury prone.

 
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steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
FYI, I'll come straight out and say - I already have not close to the patience as I did last year. So, for those who are going to play loose with my words or just overplay their weak (or nonexistent) discussion points, don't expect anything but a curt and straightforward answer.

So to monk, whom I am still tired from last year - I never said one thing about size. I said durability. Don't mince my words, it's not productive and is quite disingenuous.

And are you REALLY trying to tell me that 2 fumbles from Wilson in very limited service (while flat out looking scared and tentative at times) is the same as 2 fumbles from one of the better rookies throughout last season?

Please, it's a joke and I'm calling it out as such.

There's plenty of room for discussion, for different perspectives and for respectful disagreement. Twisting someone's words and then using a laughable (or stupid, I'm being optimistic that you are not the latter) "comparison" does not foster anything productive, rather quite the opposite.

Bring a more genuine approach here without trying to prove some point you were trying to make a year ago and perhaps something of substance could come from your perspective and passion.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.
His ability to take on a full load in terms of NFL wear and tear was an issue - and he did nothing to dispel that last year.

Ball control - same thing.

Man, are the blinders back on this guy already?
No, it was never an issue. You made it into an issue but it never was and still isn't. He had never even been injured once in his entire career coming into the league. He just so happens to have a spinal defect, but that has nothing to do with his size. Michael Irvin has the same condition, was Michael Irvin to small for the NFL?

Ball control, sure. Gio fumbled too did he not?

It's not a matter of blinders, it's a matter of unproven nonsense being used as reasons to dislike someone. Size =/= injury prone.
As I just said above, size does not mean injury prone. Body type and running style contribute, and that was a concern heading into last year.

I'm a huge Giants fan, and while I was trying to contain my enthusiasm for a guy like Wilson, last year I was on the wagon but with reservations. Reservations that proved themselves out. And when I'd point out those reservations to the fanboys, they'd attack en mass.

As I said up above - here we go again.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.
His ability to take on a full load in terms of NFL wear and tear was an issue - and he did nothing to dispel that last year.

Ball control - same thing.

Man, are the blinders back on this guy already?
No, it was never an issue. You made it into an issue but it never was and still isn't. He had never even been injured once in his entire career coming into the league. He just so happens to have a spinal defect, but that has nothing to do with his size. Michael Irvin has the same condition, was Michael Irvin to small for the NFL?

Ball control, sure. Gio fumbled too did he not?

It's not a matter of blinders, it's a matter of unproven nonsense being used as reasons to dislike someone. Size =/= injury prone.
As I just said above, size does not mean injury prone. Body type and running style contribute, and that was a concern heading into last year.

I'm a huge Giants fan, and while I was trying to contain my enthusiasm for a guy like Wilson, last year I was on the wagon but with reservations. Reservations that proved themselves out. And when I'd point out those reservations to the fanboys, they'd attack en mass.

As I said up above - here we go again.
I'm not attacking. I'm simply saying that the whole "body type - injury concern" thing is ridiculous. As for his running style, I didn't really know that elusiveness was a injury concern. I'm also a Giants fan and obviously, I'm not going around trading for him for 1st rounders right now in dynasty. But I'm throwing out 2nd round type fliers on him. He's still incredibly young and still has a real chance to blow up if given a chance to come on slowly this season. The best case scenario for fantasy and honestly for Wilson and the Giants in general would be him getting like 120-150 carries on the season as a COP back to Jennings. Then next year possibly shoot for the starting gig again.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
Per ESPN

Bernard 5’9” 208

1 fumble lost on 170 carries 4.1 yds per carry (2013)

Wilson 5’9” 205

1 fumble lost on 71 carries 5.0 yds per carry (2012)

 
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steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
Having a spinal defect that he was playing with for years isn't exactly indicative of his body type/health correlations. I think we proved long ago in this thread that there was way more backs his exact same size that didn't have injury histories than backs his size that did. Spinal Stenosis wasn't an injury CAUSED by the hit, it was a condition that he's lived with for years and didn't know about. The hit just made enough doctors look at his neck to find it.

That's almost like saying that Jay Cutler is injury prone because he has diabetes.
His ability to take on a full load in terms of NFL wear and tear was an issue - and he did nothing to dispel that last year.

Ball control - same thing.

Man, are the blinders back on this guy already?
No, it was never an issue. You made it into an issue but it never was and still isn't. He had never even been injured once in his entire career coming into the league. He just so happens to have a spinal defect, but that has nothing to do with his size. Michael Irvin has the same condition, was Michael Irvin to small for the NFL?

Ball control, sure. Gio fumbled too did he not?

It's not a matter of blinders, it's a matter of unproven nonsense being used as reasons to dislike someone. Size =/= injury prone.
As I just said above, size does not mean injury prone. Body type and running style contribute, and that was a concern heading into last year.

I'm a huge Giants fan, and while I was trying to contain my enthusiasm for a guy like Wilson, last year I was on the wagon but with reservations. Reservations that proved themselves out. And when I'd point out those reservations to the fanboys, they'd attack en mass.

As I said up above - here we go again.
I'm not attacking. I'm simply saying that the whole "body type - injury concern" thing is ridiculous. As for his running style, I didn't really know that elusiveness was a injury concern. I'm also a Giants fan and obviously, I'm not going around trading for him for 1st rounders right now in dynasty. But I'm throwing out 2nd round type fliers on him. He's still incredibly young and still has a real chance to blow up if given a chance to come on slowly this season. The best case scenario for fantasy and honestly for Wilson and the Giants in general would be him getting like 120-150 carries on the season as a COP back to Jennings. Then next year possibly shoot for the starting gig again.
That's all fair, although the ball control issues were big for Wilson and he failed, miserably. Can't compare him to one of the more productive season long rooks because they both had two fumbles.

And Wilson had injury concerns - were they founded? We have last year to judge by and that doesn't help his case is all.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
Per ESPN

Bernard 5’9” 208

1 fumble lost on 170 carries 4.1 yds per carry (2013)

Wilson 5’9” 205

1 fumble lost on 71 carries 5.0 yds per carry (2012)
What about total touches? Gio did a lot of damage via the air.

All I ask is that people at least try to be fair in comparisons, rather than misconstrue statistics to build a false case to support their already preconceived conclusions? Apparently some ego's are so shallow and frail that even false facts that "build" their case are better than recognizing that they may have been wrong.

And fwiw, I'm wrong a lot, and have admitted as such on these boards over my 10+ years here.

 
steveski said:
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
Per ESPN

Bernard 5’9” 208

1 fumble lost on 170 carries 4.1 yds per carry (2013)

Wilson 5’9” 205

1 fumble lost on 71 carries 5.0 yds per carry (2012)
What about total touches? Gio did a lot of damage via the air.

All I ask is that people at least try to be fair in comparisons, rather than misconstrue statistics to build a false case to support their already preconceived conclusions? Apparently some ego's are so shallow and frail that even false facts that "build" their case are better than recognizing that they may have been wrong.

And fwiw, I'm wrong a lot, and have admitted as such on these boards over my 10+ years here.
56 receptions for Gio

4 receptions for Wilson (2012)

No fumbles for either on the receptions

 
I'm guessing that more people are selling than buying Wilson now.
I'm going to have to disagree here. I'd be willing to wager that the number of people selling Wilson equals the number of people buying Wilson. It would be impossible for more people to do one or the other.

 
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
Per ESPN

Bernard 5’9” 208

1 fumble lost on 170 carries 4.1 yds per carry (2013)

Wilson 5’9” 205

1 fumble lost on 71 carries 5.0 yds per carry (2012)
What about total touches? Gio did a lot of damage via the air.

All I ask is that people at least try to be fair in comparisons, rather than misconstrue statistics to build a false case to support their already preconceived conclusions? Apparently some ego's are so shallow and frail that even false facts that "build" their case are better than recognizing that they may have been wrong.

And fwiw, I'm wrong a lot, and have admitted as such on these boards over my 10+ years here.
56 receptions for Gio

4 receptions for Wilson (2012)

No fumbles for either on the receptions
What about kick returns?

 
Nice. I like the thought of him being a COP back to start. Seems like the nerves get to this kid a lot and I think it's best for him to be used in that way to start.

Let's not forget that there were other COP backs in the league last year that were definitely fantasy relevant. Gio and Ellington to name a couple. IMO, Wilson is more talented than both of those guys, so hopefully he gets cleared and we get to see this play out.
Don't know that Wilson is more talented than Gio. Gio proved it last year. Wilson has only reinforced concerns over Body type / health and ball control issues.
The 5'9" 202 lb. rookie proved it with 4.1 ypc and 2 Fumbles but and You're not concerned about his size or ball control

The 5'10 205 lb rookie didn't prove it with 5.0 ypc and 2 Fumbles? You're concerned about his size (although he is bigger) and ball control (same # of Fumbles) Hmmm?
Per ESPN

Bernard 5’9” 208

1 fumble lost on 170 carries 4.1 yds per carry (2013)

Wilson 5’9” 205

1 fumble lost on 71 carries 5.0 yds per carry (2012)
What about total touches? Gio did a lot of damage via the air.

All I ask is that people at least try to be fair in comparisons, rather than misconstrue statistics to build a false case to support their already preconceived conclusions? Apparently some ego's are so shallow and frail that even false facts that "build" their case are better than recognizing that they may have been wrong.

And fwiw, I'm wrong a lot, and have admitted as such on these boards over my 10+ years here.
That's the difference between us. I'm never wrong ... but I also admit it.

 
Rotoworld:

David Wilson - RB - Giants

David Wilson (neck) will next seek medical clearance on Monday, July 21.

Wilson initially sought clearance before minicamp. He didn't get it, but doctors still seemed upbeat about his chances of playing this year. Wilson handled "some reps" at spring practices, but needs clearance for contact work. If Wilson does get the green light, he'll be a change-of-pace back and kick returner.

Source: ESPN New York

Jun 26 - 1:50 PM
 
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Rotoworld:

David Wilson - RB - Giants

Co-owner John Mara told reporters Thursday that the Giants expect David Wilson (neck) to be medically cleared for the season.

"We expect him to be playing," Mara said. "All signs are he'll be ready to go." Wilson's final pre-camp medical checkup is on Monday. ESPN's Dan Graziano reiterated on SportsCenter this afternoon that "signs point to David Wilson being cleared and joining that Giants' backfield." New York's running back stable includes Rashad Jennings, Wilson, rookie Andre Williams, Peyton Hillis, Michael Cox, and Kendall Gaskins. Wilson is unlikely to accrue significant re-draft value this season, but the 23-year-old could certainly be a drain on Jennings'.

Source: Tom Rock on Twitter

Jul 17 - 1:31 PM
 
I'm not sure if this is anything to be happy about. I guess it depends on if he actually has any "inside" information that the rest of us don't. I guess it's better than him saying nothing...

"Wilson is unlikely to accrue significant re-draft value this season"

Haha, gotta love Rotoworlds take on things. There's absolutely no value to be had in a guy with his skills that is going in round 12+ of redraft?? I need to get in a league with the Rotoworld "experts".

 
David Wilson (neck) tweeted Monday that he's been "cleared for everything."

It's fantastic news for Wilson, whose career appeared to be jeopardy following a Week 5 neck injury and subsequent surgery. Now he can focus on football again, an area he struggled badly with last season while getting blown up in pass protection, averaging 3.31 YPC and losing two fumbles. Still, there's more than enough natural running ability here for the Giants to unleash Wilson as an explosive early-down, change-of-pace kind of back behind Rashad Jennings. Don't be surprised if Wilson ends up earning at least 6-8 carries as soon as Week 1. Jul 21 - 10:02 AM
All good to go!

 
I'm guessing that more people are selling than buying Wilson now.
I'm going to have to disagree here. I'd be willing to wager that the number of people selling Wilson equals the number of people buying Wilson. It would be impossible for more people to do one or the other.
I don't know if its the wording or what, But I cant seem to find a counter argument. The Only thing I can say is IF you are selling, you are probably getting ripped-off. LOL

 
Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.

 
Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.
I'm hoping that McAdoo brings some life and excitement into the offense. I know what you're saying about Coughlin, but I feel like the Gilbride and Coughlin combination was the ultimate grumpy, old school offense combination that was horrible. I'm hoping that McAdoo brings in some speed and 21st century into the offense and I think Wilson is really the only true speed in the backfield.

I think Wilsons ability to pass block is what will really be the determining factor on whether he's just a situational or COP back.

 
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Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.
I'm hoping that McAdoo brings some life and excitement into the offense. I know what you're saying about Coughlin, but I feel like the Gilbride and Coughlin combination was the ultimate grumpy, old school offense combination that was horrible. I'm hoping that McAdoo brings in some speed and 21st century into the offense and I think Wilson is really the only true speed in the backfield.

I think Wilsons ability to pass block is what will really be the determining factor on whether he's just a situational or COP back.
Well sure, his pass blocking will matter a lot. As well as his ability to hold onto the ball. And oh, yeah, whether or not his neck bones crumple up and turn to dust in the future.

 
Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.
I'm hoping that McAdoo brings some life and excitement into the offense. I know what you're saying about Coughlin, but I feel like the Gilbride and Coughlin combination was the ultimate grumpy, old school offense combination that was horrible. I'm hoping that McAdoo brings in some speed and 21st century into the offense and I think Wilson is really the only true speed in the backfield.

I think Wilsons ability to pass block is what will really be the determining factor on whether he's just a situational or COP back.
Problem is that Coughlin has and always will call the shots. Jennings seems to be the kind of back Coughlin really likes.

 
Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.
I'm hoping that McAdoo brings some life and excitement into the offense. I know what you're saying about Coughlin, but I feel like the Gilbride and Coughlin combination was the ultimate grumpy, old school offense combination that was horrible. I'm hoping that McAdoo brings in some speed and 21st century into the offense and I think Wilson is really the only true speed in the backfield.

I think Wilsons ability to pass block is what will really be the determining factor on whether he's just a situational or COP back.
Well sure, his pass blocking will matter a lot. As well as his ability to hold onto the ball. And oh, yeah, whether or not his neck bones crumple up and turn to dust in the future.
Will the pass blocking be as big of a factor with the new offense focusing on getting the ball out fast and 3 step drops?

 
Even if Wilson is 100% healthy, it's hard to get on the bandwagon as long as Coughlin is around. I don't think he'll ever truly trust the kid to be more than a situational, change of pace guy.
Tiki got it figured out, with Coughlin around. And Coughlin was worse back then.

 

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