zamboni
Footballguy
Maybe, but Tiki brought a lot more to the table before his fumbilitis hit.
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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
- Start date
Not true at all ... why would you just post a statement like that if you have no idea?
12punch
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
Coughlin found a way to take one of the worst all time teammates in Tiki Barber and position him for a near HoF career. If Wilson can step up and play, coughlin will give him love.
Manster
Footballguy
yep. thanks for the feedback. I'm so sorry I offended such a clearly superior human being such as yourself
cstu
Footballguy
I offered up Ridley for him in dynasty and was turned down. He's a nice gamble but if his price is higher than that I think he's overvalued.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The difference between him this year versus last year is about 10 rounds. I'm far from sold but you're getting him late, likely as your RB5.
valhallan
Footballguy
steveski
Footballguy
It's always easy to spot the guys on forums that are no good at fantasy football. They are the ones that have the inability to see past last year.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I kind of doubt that passing on David Wilson is going to kill anyone's season in redraft. I find Wilson intruiging in dynasty due to his obvious running talent and given the way his price has plummeted, but I'll be pretty surprised if he puts up FF-worthy numbers in 2014. Competition for touches, bad o-line, likely bad offense overall, likely to be eased in slowly after the injury, etc.
IMO it'll be a significant (+) if he stays healthy, makes strides in pass protection and ball security, and carves out a 10 touch COP role by the end of the year. Anything else is way too optimistic for me.
steveski
Footballguy
I was speaking more in general. The philosophy of "Oh this guy burned me last year so no way I ever take him again this year" is setting you up for failure in fantasy football.
I agree that the chances are very slim that Wilson could be a RB1 or even RB2 this year with Jennings around. If Jennings stays healthy (not a given with him) then I don't see how Wilson could be more than a flex play this year, but again, his ADP is currently the 12th round. I think the upside you get with him is far higher than JStew or Ivory which are going around the same time as him. When you're drafting that late you're looking for a home run and I think Wilson is pretty high on that list of guys that could be the home run late in the draft.
He was going round 3/4 last year based on his talent. He didn't lose a leg. Unlike Lamar Miller, he didn't play an entire season and underwhelm. He played 4 games. If he starts to creep up into the 8th round or people are drafting him as their RB2 then I agree it's most likely a bad move. If you draft QB/WR/TE early and wait on RB, then I think you'd be crazy to not grab Wilson in the late rounds because if he hits and picks up steam by mid year then you'll have a solid team.
zamboni
Footballguy
Prior to Coughlin's arrival with the Giants in 2004, Tiki had three 1000 yard rushing seasons and only really started fumbling the ball badly in 2002.
Perhaps you should look at the facts first yourself before bashing others.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
In my dynasty/salary cap league, Willson is in the final year of his rookie deal that pays him $1,000,000/year of a $32 million cap. The third year is an option year. I had no problem picking that option up. The league minimum on a player is $500K. I'll take that to see what the guy has. I have ADP, Matthews and Gerhart so taking a flyer on this guy is a must.
I think the kid has major talent that has been stopped for one reason or another from being shown on the field. I'm hoping the time away due to injury makes the kid hungry. Because if it doesn't his next stop is free agency and competing for a RB4/ST spot on a team that signs him off the street.
I think the kid has major talent that has been stopped for one reason or another from being shown on the field. I'm hoping the time away due to injury makes the kid hungry. Because if it doesn't his next stop is free agency and competing for a RB4/ST spot on a team that signs him off the street.
steveski
Footballguy
Whether he ends up being good or he ends being bad, I just hope he has a real shot to prove it this year. I think having a guy ahead of him instead of being the guy helps his chances and doesn't hurt his chances. Seems like nerves really get to him seeing as how he fumbled in the first game of each season. I think gradually working him in until he gets comfortable is good for him and most young players.
Your situation in your league seems ideal. You basically get a free rental this year to see how he does and then can sign him or let him walk next year.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
Wilson still is a 1st rd talent. His talent warranted a 1st round selection and he looked good in limited action rookie year. His hype got out of control last year and he didn't come close to living up to it, then he got injured before ever getting going
Although he looked bad last season the Giants offense looked worse as a whole. They were just awful and I can't imagine anyone looking great.
He's easily the most talented RB on that team. I am personally looking to buy.
Someone mentioned Ridley as a value comparison, Ridley is not close to me and I would easily give him to acquire Wilson.
Although he looked bad last season the Giants offense looked worse as a whole. They were just awful and I can't imagine anyone looking great.
He's easily the most talented RB on that team. I am personally looking to buy.
Someone mentioned Ridley as a value comparison, Ridley is not close to me and I would easily give him to acquire Wilson.
Only started fumling badly in 2002 huh ...below are all of his seasons prior to 2002
3 in 130 att as a rookie
1 in 50 att
5 in 60 att
9 in 213att
8 in 160 att
I would do that trade.
Ridley's risks are fumblitis and opportunity risk (RBBC, random coaching moves, etc). When on the field, he is a proven high-end and durable RB2. When NE fails to re-sign him at the end of this year he will get a chance to land in a Toby Gerhart-type situation somewhere else.
Wilson has fumblitis risk, injury risk, opportunity risk and performance risk (has yet to consistently perform at a high level in the NFL for any decent stretch).
Arguably, Wilson would have higher potential upside for those holding out slim hope for a 3-down feature back role but IMO that upside is more than outweighed by so many other risks.
zamboni
Footballguy
I was looking at wikipedia, which has lower fumble numbers. In any case, my point was that despite his fumblitis he brought a lot to the table. He was a good RB and punt returner, just put the ball on the ground way too much.
Not much different than Wilson ... Good RB led the NFL in Kick Returns, he really doesnt fumble that much but for some god knows why reason everyone insists that he does.zamboni said:
Do you know that Wilson only has 3 fumbles in 2 seasons 187 touches.
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netnalp
Footballguy
Keep in mind though that the Giants line was so bad that the running game was dismal and the passing offense wasn't much better. None of the RBs had a good season.
shader
Footballguy
I'm laughing at all the prognosticators that are going to miss the boat on David Wilson because they are worried about....rashad Jennings!!! 
Jennings is without a doubt the most overrated player going in drafts this year. This guy is on his third team and has never done anything and for some reason people think he's a serious obstacle to a talent like Wilson.
Jennings is without a doubt the most overrated player going in drafts this year. This guy is on his third team and has never done anything and for some reason people think he's a serious obstacle to a talent like Wilson.
12punch
Footballguy
yeah, cuz moreno is such a crazy talentI'm laughing at all the prognosticators that are going to miss the boat on David Wilson because they are worried about....rashad Jennings!!!
Jennings is without a doubt the most overrated player going in drafts this year. This guy is on his third team and has never done anything and for some reason people think he's a serious obstacle to a talent like Wilson.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
David Wilson - RB - Giants
David Wilson opened Giants camp as the second-team tailback.
He was quickly installed directly behind Rashad Jennings, and ahead of Peyton Hills and rookie Andre Williams. Per the Giants' website, Wilson "looked dynamic as ever" in practice, "making cuts like his old self and still looks like one of the most athletic players on the field." Only 23 years old, Wilson has mouth-watering god-given gifts but football-playing deficiencies have removed him from the equation to start. He'll likely be a change-of-pace back this season.
Source: giants.com
Jul 23 - 12:24 PM
David Wilson opened Giants camp as the second-team tailback.
He was quickly installed directly behind Rashad Jennings, and ahead of Peyton Hills and rookie Andre Williams. Per the Giants' website, Wilson "looked dynamic as ever" in practice, "making cuts like his old self and still looks like one of the most athletic players on the field." Only 23 years old, Wilson has mouth-watering god-given gifts but football-playing deficiencies have removed him from the equation to start. He'll likely be a change-of-pace back this season.
Source: giants.com
Jul 23 - 12:24 PM
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
He's likely not going to stay at ~12 round for long IMO. He's already moving up on ADP calculator.
What is the earliest you guys would be willing to take him?
What is the earliest you guys would be willing to take him?
steveski
Footballguy
Well lets look at which round some other RBs are going:
6th: Bell, Rice, Ridley, SJax
7th: Miller, MJD, Sproles, West
8th: Pierce, McFadden, FJax
9th: Woodhead, Khiry, Moreno, Hill, DWill
10th: Freeman, Michael
If he stays healthy but there aren't tons more articles about him looking great and being a threat to Jennings then I could see him falling in the 8th/9th range. If news continues at this pace then I could see him start going in the 6th/7th round. I'd personally much rather have Wilson than those 7th round guys right now, but I'll admit that I'm a big Wilson supporter. I had been drafting Wilson in the 9th/10th rounds before the news of his neck so I don't see how he wouldn't jump up to that spot immediately.
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Khy
Footballguy
Absolute earliest would probably be in the 9th or 10th right now. But a lot of that would be based on how my team was shaping up to that point. If I really didn't have a RB3 and my RB2 was shaky I'd want to go with the boom potential of Wilson. But if I started my draft going something like Forte and Foster (something I've done in a few leagues so far) I'm unlikely to make that jump for him earlier than the 10th or 11th round. If he shows that he looks healthy and looks like clearly the best back on the field early in preseason though obviously that number becomes lower and lower. If he has another preseason like his 2012 one (or better) I could see him sky rocketing back into that 4th to 5th range on many peoples boards. Short of Jennings blowing out his knee in the preseason though I won't take him earlier than the 6th or 7th no matter how good he looks.
I love Wilson. I think his talent is through the roof as you can tell from any of my posts in this thread from the first two seasons. With that said, Coughlin doesn't and never will likely trust him. Wilson could start the season with lines of 8/120/2TDs and 7/95/1TD in the first two games and Coughlin still would be reluctent to hand him the reigns. He's been in Coughlin's dog house since the day he was drafted because Grandpa Tom wanted nothing to do with him and was forced into drafting him. He went into last season as the starter because was literally the only option. And after he fumbled he still was the only real option. Benching him didn't do anyone any favors. Sure turnovers suck but so does having a back who gets hit from the wrong angle with a 5mph gust of wind and falls over... aka every back behind Wilson in Week 1 last season.
I think Coughlin has seen enough that we might be in Marshawn Lynch type of hope here, where the team is done with him and if you own him in dyno you're hoping that they trade him to a needy team for a mid-late round pick and then he explodes. Or alternatively, Coughlin retires after this season and they bring in a new coach who actually fits Wilson's style. His only real shot at a lot of playing time is either Jennings gets hurt or he just keeps tossing up 6 & 7ypc games on limited touches and the coaching staff is forced into using him more.
My hope for him though is... if Jennings gets hurt just let it be a few games into the season. Not like Andre Brown's injury last year. This guy needs to build confidence. If he can get 8-12 touches a game for 3-4 games and be successful with no fumbles and then Jennings were to get hurt. I think he could really just run away with the job and never look back. But if he's thrown to the wolves again, he'll likely over think it and fail.
steveski
Footballguy
I'm hoping that the lack of trust in Wilson was a Coughlin/Gilbride combo and that McAdoo bringing some speed and 21st century into the offense will benefit Wilson. Do you think McAdoo really has no say in Wilsons usage and it's really all on Coughlin? If it really is all on Coughlin then the whole offense is doomed, not just Wilson.
Khy
Footballguy
This is true and is also my hope which is why I've been taking late round fliers on him in most of my leagues. I've done to this moment about 16 MFL10 Best Ball leagues and I've drafted him in about 13 of them. Mainly because when it comes to the Giants, I'd believe someone telling me Chris Snee's retirement was a joke before I'd believe someone who told me Jennings will complete a full 16 game season.
shader
Footballguy
Here is the deal with David Wilson. Whether he succeeds or not is entirely a question of his talent, not situation. Jennings is not an obstacle or a threat. I view Wilson as a gamble or a flyer. There are many questions with him, from his health, to his fumble problems, to his lack of production since he came to the NFL.
But Jennings is not a barrier. He's the worst "starting rb" in the league, unless I'm overlooking someone that I can't recall.
If you believe in Wilson, go get him, because Wilson has never had an easier path to a large number of touches than he does this year.
But Jennings is not a barrier. He's the worst "starting rb" in the league, unless I'm overlooking someone that I can't recall.
If you believe in Wilson, go get him, because Wilson has never had an easier path to a large number of touches than he does this year.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
This is an excellent point. Opportunity is huge. If Trent Green doesn't get injured, is Kurt Warner in the HOF? Opportunity is monstrous and he has nobody in front of him which also says a lot about the way the coaches actually feel about him. They may have been saying that there was little chance he would be back, but their actions say something quite different.
12punch
Footballguy
he didn't have an easier path last year when he was literally the only option behind guys getting blown over by the wind, etc?
12punch
Footballguy
uhmmmm....their actions being signing a rb and drafting another?
did you hear that news earlier this offseason?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
If you see Jennings as a threat then by all means, look at that as no faith in Wilson. I see Jennings as a journeyman backup since that's exactly what he is.12punch said:
And they drafted a RB. Did they use a 1st rounder on one? Oh, wait, RB's are devalued and nobody uses a first rounder anymore. Did they grab the first RB off the board? The second? The third? The 9th? No, they took the 10th RB off the board. They added depth, not a threat.
Who has an easier path to serious carries this year? Christine Michael? Marcus Lattimore? Carlos Hyde? Tre Mason? Jeremy Hill? McKinnon? West?
Dismattle
Footballguy
Fanatic Im not gonna say I disagree about anything you posted, But I do feel it may be worth mentioning the possibility of re-injury.
ie. A neck stinger may put a damper on playtime. It may not be fair to consider players who may get the shot because of a missed game (Bell-Cow pos may not be relinquished)
I also don't wish to speculate anything, But I know some NFL teams error on the side of caution (ex. IF medically cleared by Packers, player is good to GO)
Im gonna have to read up on Jennings.. I know I was a fan early in his career I also know the Giants have enjoyed great success using up to three RB''s in the past
ie. A neck stinger may put a damper on playtime. It may not be fair to consider players who may get the shot because of a missed game (Bell-Cow pos may not be relinquished)
I also don't wish to speculate anything, But I know some NFL teams error on the side of caution (ex. IF medically cleared by Packers, player is good to GO)
Im gonna have to read up on Jennings.. I know I was a fan early in his career I also know the Giants have enjoyed great success using up to three RB''s in the past
TheFanatic
Footballguy
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I can't predict injuries. A whole lot of people felt they were vindicated on predicting Wilson as a bust because he got injured and that's just ignorant.
He could always get re-injured, but that's not really in the discussion unless we're talking about where to draft him. I have him for a song this year and would like to see some of the electric stuff he has teased the league and fantasy owners with for two years.
This thread is going to break 200 pages. Bank on it.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
The pushback on Wilson was always a reaction to the absurd hyperbolic positivity surrounding him. People had the guy as the dynasty RB1 before he proved anything -- and as with all hype trains, anyone advocating caution was shouted down by the chorus of fan bois. No one could have predicted the injury, obviously, but given what Wilson did last year prior to getting hurt, the people saying that taking him as a RB1 was insane were absolutely 100% correct.
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Dismattle
Footballguy
I would say its safe to consider Wilson a bust up to this point in time. The combination of the HC not having a solid grip on his position, along w what may have been poor choices isn't a good sign.
I would also admit that good ball handling skills/practices can be coached.
We have plenty to consider and discuss to make well over 200 pages Is the GMen Defense gonna hold up.. Will the OLine produce.. ie. This isn't Sea, being discussed right
I would also admit that good ball handling skills/practices can be coached.
We have plenty to consider and discuss to make well over 200 pages Is the GMen Defense gonna hold up.. Will the OLine produce.. ie. This isn't Sea, being discussed right
Dismattle
Footballguy
sry my abb skills are lacking..
Sea meant Seattle
SB champs have quite the Def, and can run at will
I realize that Im completely ignoring the fact that some RB's only require ten touch's (whatever floats your boat right)
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12punch
Footballguy
Dismattle
Footballguy
My apologies if I failed to answer your question.. It makes me smile to see you laughing though!
