Mario Kart
Footballguy
Flynn was the starter in how many of those games? Thus, he has not won more games than Wilson.
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QB Russell Wilson, PIT (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Why does being the starter matter?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
:whoosh:
Scooby1974
Footballguy
Houston has a top D and arguably the best RB in the league. The running game holds back Schaub's numbers in a BIG way. He has proven that he has the ability to put the ball in the air, yet Kubiak's game plan continues to be run first, run second, in spite of having a very good QB and a Pro-Bowl WR in AJ. Russell is a rookie and is not being forced to put the team on his back like Luck/RG3/Tannehill is. I personally think that as Wilson develops and Seattle finds Wilson his "Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels", he'll be a very good QB. I think Wilson COULD become the QB that Philly wants Mike Vick to be.'matttyl said:I guess my "argument" is that Wilson will not make a great FF QB, and you guys are making my argument for me. When you have a "dominate defense" and a great running game....if that's your team's "mindset", then you will continue to have low scoring games where your QB doesn't have to put up big numbers for your team to have "success" (wins). As this is a RW bandwagon thread, I thought the discussion would be about RW, and not about the Seattle Seahawks, though. When you look at the top FF QBs so far this year, you do see some similar traits, though....poor defense and poor running game. As such, as long as this "mindset" you talk about continues, RW will not be a great or likely even good FF QB (which is the argument this thread should be about).'Hooper31 said:'biju said:So one fan (and a delusional one at that) is the basis of your argument? Ok.'matttyl said:
I've lost count of how many times I've tried to tell people that Scientist is a blind homer. We all have them. Every team. He's over the top. If you want direct an argument at him, please direct it at him. There's a much larger fan base that would have a rational discourse with you.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I was not able to see any of this game.
Looks like Wilson had a decent game.
For those that watched the game did they open up the play book more than the last couple of games?
There is a true test for Wilson the next 3 weeks. They will need to score points against the Patriots this sunday. Seattle is an awesome defense but NE will score points.
Then they take on a defense as good as his in San Fran who have a better game managing QB at this stage in Smith. Therefore Wilson will have to out play Smith for them to win.
You then get the Lions who again will put some points up and force Seattle to score some points to win this game.
He needs to win 1 of these games and or not play poorly if they go 0 and 3 to avoid the Flynn buzz from generating.
Looks like Wilson had a decent game.
For those that watched the game did they open up the play book more than the last couple of games?
There is a true test for Wilson the next 3 weeks. They will need to score points against the Patriots this sunday. Seattle is an awesome defense but NE will score points.
Then they take on a defense as good as his in San Fran who have a better game managing QB at this stage in Smith. Therefore Wilson will have to out play Smith for them to win.
You then get the Lions who again will put some points up and force Seattle to score some points to win this game.
He needs to win 1 of these games and or not play poorly if they go 0 and 3 to avoid the Flynn buzz from generating.
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Schaub is incredibly efficient in his limited attempts. His career per pass stats rival those of Brady, Manning, Brees, etc. Wilson's per pass play numbers have him looking up at guys like Bradford, Weeden, Sanchez, and Cassell. Maybe he can turn it around, but so far he's been terrible.Houston has a top D and arguably the best RB in the league. The running game holds back Schaub's numbers in a BIG way. He has proven that he has the ability to put the ball in the air, yet Kubiak's game plan continues to be run first, run second, in spite of having a very good QB and a Pro-Bowl WR in AJ. Russell is a rookie and is not being forced to put the team on his back like Luck/RG3/Tannehill is. I personally think that as Wilson develops and Seattle finds Wilson his "Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels", he'll be a very good QB. I think Wilson COULD become the QB that Philly wants Mike Vick to be.I guess my "argument" is that Wilson will not make a great FF QB, and you guys are making my argument for me. When you have a "dominate defense" and a great running game....if that's your team's "mindset", then you will continue to have low scoring games where your QB doesn't have to put up big numbers for your team to have "success" (wins). As this is a RW bandwagon thread, I thought the discussion would be about RW, and not about the Seattle Seahawks, though. When you look at the top FF QBs so far this year, you do see some similar traits, though....poor defense and poor running game. As such, as long as this "mindset" you talk about continues, RW will not be a great or likely even good FF QB (which is the argument this thread should be about).So one fan (and a delusional one at that) is the basis of your argument? Ok.
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biju
Footballguy
I'd bet a lot of money that he doesn't lose his job after this game no matter what the outcome is. That, and I don't believe NE is going to stop Marshawn Lynch today.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
I thought advantage is to a running team and defense.I would also bet money he doesn't LOOSE his job.
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ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Wilson has bigger hands and a stronger arm..... Brady will struggle today...12th man will destroy him.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Wilson throws for 300/3 today in a 42-31 loss.
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
Pretty optimistic since he's only got 5 TD's (and 6 INTs) in 5 games.
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biju
Footballguy
Agreed on the TDs (I'm thinking one or two tops), although if you're going to be ragging on the INTs you've got to discount the 3 he's had in the past two games that weren't his fault (2 balls tipped into the defense, 1 receiver was tripped) and one at the end of a half that didn't make any difference in the game.
flc735
Footballguy
looks like i was wrong but sheesh, you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend anti-wilson posts. i guess blindly supporting your team works out on occasion.
Speaking of ... is Wilson Tebow 2.0? Fun to watch (except that bull ending against my Packers).
Tau837
Footballguy
Tebow 2.0? No, Wilson is actually a good passer. If you watched today's game, you would know the difference.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Ngth
Dinkle Heimer
Footballguy
wow...what a diff a couple weeks makes.
Time Kibitzer
Footballguy
Nice call on Wilson's numbers...
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Big props to Seattle and to Wilson today.
He can definitely say he had a big part of this win today.
He can definitely say he had a big part of this win today.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
Russell Wilson has now beat Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton, and Tom Brady.
Faust
MVP
biju
Footballguy
To be specific, 4 times out of 6 so far.'flc735 said:looks like i was wrong but sheesh, you don't seem to have the ability to comprehend anti-wilson posts. i guess blindly supporting your team works out on occasion.
Hooper31
Footballguy
One specific criticism of RW from yesterday.
On one play where Breno G. was called for a hold RW bailed on the pocket when he didn't have to. Pocket was holding up great, but RW's internal clock told him it was time to bolt. He attempted to roll out right around the back of Breno G. on the right side and Breno was flagged for the hold.
On a positive note it happened less than it has in the other games, but still something to improve on.
On one play where Breno G. was called for a hold RW bailed on the pocket when he didn't have to. Pocket was holding up great, but RW's internal clock told him it was time to bolt. He attempted to roll out right around the back of Breno G. on the right side and Breno was flagged for the hold.
On a positive note it happened less than it has in the other games, but still something to improve on.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Took this kid in my dynasty draft this year and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what happens. He seems to be improving every week, and he's much, much more accurate than I'd expect a rookie QB to be.
Obviously RGIII is the rookie-year fantasy stud out of this class, and Luck is a the big name to hold for a season and use for the long haul, but Wilson's looking more and more like a Drew Brees-type of player. I think he could pay big dividends in the long run for dynasty teams who hold on for a year or two.
Obviously RGIII is the rookie-year fantasy stud out of this class, and Luck is a the big name to hold for a season and use for the long haul, but Wilson's looking more and more like a Drew Brees-type of player. I think he could pay big dividends in the long run for dynasty teams who hold on for a year or two.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Positives I like so far:
* Accurate passer. I expect a high completion percentage. This is what makes him the very unTebow-like.
* Mature attitude and focus on improvement. I've been following him on twitter and several other Seahawk players. He has an uncommon continual improvement work ethic.
* Very solid citizen. He's been spending his off days visiting children's hospitals. He daily re-tweets his bible verse of the day. He's squeaky clean. In this regard he's very Tebow-like.
* He has the team behind him. His teammates want to win for him. They've bought in to Wilson as the starter.
* He avoids sacks and INTs. The numbers don't bear the INT comment out through the first five games, but its not hard to see he's averse to turning the ball over.
Negatives I don't like so far.
* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?
* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.
* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.
* Accurate passer. I expect a high completion percentage. This is what makes him the very unTebow-like.
* Mature attitude and focus on improvement. I've been following him on twitter and several other Seahawk players. He has an uncommon continual improvement work ethic.
* Very solid citizen. He's been spending his off days visiting children's hospitals. He daily re-tweets his bible verse of the day. He's squeaky clean. In this regard he's very Tebow-like.
* He has the team behind him. His teammates want to win for him. They've bought in to Wilson as the starter.
* He avoids sacks and INTs. The numbers don't bear the INT comment out through the first five games, but its not hard to see he's averse to turning the ball over.
Negatives I don't like so far.
* He keeps bailing on the pocket. I know I mentioned above that I saw it once in the past game where Breno got flagged, but there are times he still looks too skittish and not trusting his protection. Is this natural for a rookie of six games? Probably. Will he improve? Time will tell, but there are times where its a bit too skittish. I wonder, did Brady, Brees, or Manning ever look like that?
* He's not as fast and elusive as I thought he was going to be. If you watch him run with the ball he's nowhere as quick as a Griffin or Vick. However, he does show good balance and runs low to the ground.
* Something from the positives... He's turnover averse. Can this be both a positive and a negative? Yeah, I think it can be. Is he going to trust his receivers to make plays on the ball? I saw some improvement yesterday. On the deep ball to Obomanu he threw it up for grabs, but all his other throws were fairly conservative. On a third and long at the end of the game he threw one out of bounds deep down the left side. IMO he has to at least give the WR a chance to make a play on the ball there. And this was in a game situation where they didn't know if they were going to get another opportunity.
Rushmore
Footballguy
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I agree with most of that as well. He is showing improvement in all areas. The pass to Obo was more of a precision pass than I think Hooper gives credit for, really one if his best throws of the game, IMO. He stayed in the pocket more than before and the only really atrocious play where he looked like rookie was the quick screen that was busted from the start. One other area if improvement I saw was the snap count variations. If there was any question last week about a short leash, the rest of the naysayers ought to realize it isn't going to happen. For better or worse, he's the QB.
cstu
Footballguy
He making a believer out of me, but can he do it against the 49ers?
duaneok66
Footballguy
the Seahawks can win it, but it will be a different contest. SF is (obviously) better defensively (than the Pats) and not as good on offense.
lod01
Footballguy
I'll wait until there is a bigger sample. Never subscribed to the Scam Newton bandwagon becasue I knew once defenses get enough film on these guys, they devise ways to stop them and then you see if they are capable of adapting. So far its No Go Newton.
If you like defensive struggles with grind it out run-oriented offenses, this could be a great game. Actually excited to see what Wilson can do.
duaneok66
Footballguy
good points, but Wilson did it on a big stage and he deserves his props - btw i never was a fan of Newton. I like Wilson's intangibles which Newton seems to lack.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Fully expecting a blood-bath. Defenses will determine this one. As a Seahawk homer I'm very worried about the TEs Davis and Walker. Seattle has struggled with the pair in the past. If you saw the Seattle game against Dallas earlier this year Witten was open a lot, but had an awful game. The fact that Bam Bam Kam lit him up a few times contributed, but I think if you ask Witten he would say he just had one of the worst games of his career.
Tau837
Footballguy
Good post overall, but a few comments.
I don't really understand the question. Wilson is a much more talented runner than Brady, Brees, and Manning ever were. It seems natural to me that he would choose to run more than they did.
No one should have been expecting him to be as quick or fast as Griffin or Vick, who are probably the two fastest QBs in NFL history. But Wilson seems pretty elusive to me... He looked pretty elusive on that 3rd down run where he eluded the entire defensive line and got the first down.
At N.C. State, Wilson often put the ball up downfield to give his WRs a chance to make plays. In fact, he did it so often that he was sometimes criticized for it. My guess is that the Seattle coaching staff is coaching him not to do it.
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