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ImTheScientist

***Russell Wilson Bandwagon***

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Great pick, fell right to a team which gives him a great chance for success. He'll end up being one of the top 2 QBs coming out of this years draft. :drive:

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I hope so, but put me in the Flynn camp. I think he will be successful and thus push Wilson into the permanent back up role until he graduates from his rookie contract

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:lmao: 5'-11"...maybe. He will go the way of Troy Smith and Pat White, both thought of as potential NFL starters yet failed miserably. His best case scenario is backup and injury fill in like that Wallace bum who I saw that they likened him to during the draft.

Fantaasy irrelevant.

Smith

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=569728 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=577975 among others

White

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466293 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466116

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:lmao: 5'-11"...maybe. He will go the way of Troy Smith and Pat White, both thought of as potential NFL starters yet failed miserably. His best case scenario is backup and injury fill in like that Wallace bum who I saw that they likened him to during the draft.

And this comes from a guy that thought Charlie Whitehurst was going to start over TJax last year. :thumbup: lolu.....

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:lmao: 5'-11"...maybe. He will go the way of Troy Smith and Pat White, both thought of as potential NFL starters yet failed miserably. His best case scenario is backup and injury fill in like that Wallace bum who I saw that they likened him to during the draft.

And this comes from a guy that thought Charlie Whitehurst was going to start over TJax last year. :thumbup: lolu.....
Where is t-joke now? Waterboy, that's where. That's how bad he is. Whitehurst obviously should have been starting. They fixed that mistake with Flynn, not the midget you are in love with.

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I'm in. I'm still a little bitter the Bills didn't grab him. I think he could be the real deal. Especially in Chan Gaileys offense. I still think he has a chance to succeed in Seattle. If Rice can get 100% healthy he could really help out whatever QB is there.

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Russell Wilson would be on the bandwagon himself, except that you must be at least 5-10 to go on this ride.

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I think Flynn will work out for the Hawks so I'm not real excited that Russell landed with them, but I am glad he got drafted. I hope he eventually gets a shot at starting for someone.

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Im thinking he is going to be high on my list in 4th/5th round rookie drafts.

In my 2QB league if he makes it to the 3rd, he wont get past me.

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If Wilson becomes starter this year or next, does the GM get canned? I mean, they spent some coin to bring in Flynn. If he flops, someone will take some heat. Petey will dance around it all, like he always does(or leave for another job).

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If Wilson becomes starter this year or next, does the GM get canned? I mean, they spent some coin to bring in Flynn. If he flops, someone will take some heat. Petey will dance around it all, like he always does(or leave for another job).

There probably isn't too many NFL GM/HC's with more job security then those two and they didn't spend to much coin on Flynn. Their philosophy is Compete.... they also believe in getting QB talent much in the way Green Bay and Philadelphia does (GM came from GB). The bottom line is winning in Seattle, starters are not determined by how you are paid, performance is all that matters (which is unique in the NFL) and they can really only do this because of the job security they have. Edited by ImTheScientist

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:lmao: 5'-11"...maybe. He will go the way of Troy Smith and Pat White, both thought of as potential NFL starters yet failed miserably. His best case scenario is backup and injury fill in like that Wallace bum who I saw that they likened him to during the draft.

Fantaasy irrelevant.

Smith

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=569728 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=577975 among others

White

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466293 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466116

I don't think anyone, besides the management that selected him, thought White would be more than a gimmick. Everyone is saying if you add two measly inches to Wilson's frame, you are looking at a 1st/2nd rounder. I think Wilson is worth a strong look based on that fact that he excelled at two different, big conference colleges...most of the time, a transfer is running from an issue, or trying to find a better program, and all Wilson did was set records at two different big college programs...at the worst, he has proven he can grasp a new concept, which happens all the time in the NFL.

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If Wilson becomes starter this year or next, does the GM get canned? I mean, they spent some coin to bring in Flynn. If he flops, someone will take some heat. Petey will dance around it all, like he always does(or leave for another job).

So if the QB he drafts wins the starting job, he gets fired? :confused:

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Russell Wilson highlights from last season in Wisconsin.

Some notes from watching:

His play action? Sick, seems like everyone on D bites. Could be important with Lynch and Turbin.

Way faster than I expected.

Great pocket skills (granted these are highlights but judging from his numbers, most of his plays were highlights)

+ arm strength and touch on his throws.

I've also read that Wilson had maybe the biggest hands of any QB in the draft, which can help in rainy Seattle for holding on to the ball.

Also, due to his high release point, his release point compares to RGIII and last season he had less passes batted down than Luck and Griffin.

The reason he fell in the draft is solely on height but Wilson is superb at finding throwing lanes, something Brees has been able to do in his time in the NFL.

I haven't even covered his character yet, he was named team captain within 20 days of being on the Wisonsin football team.

One of the huge things Pete Carroll preaches is limiting turnovers and Wilson is a master at this. His freshman year at NC State the dude threw for 17 TDs and 1 INT! Last year, 39 total TDs, 4 INTs.

:moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag:

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Russell Wilson highlights from last season in Wisconsin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8r7wLnb1xc&feature=player_embeddedSome notes from watching: His play action? Sick, seems like everyone on D bites. Could be important with Lynch and Turbin. Way faster than I expected. Great pocket skills (granted these are highlights but judging from his numbers, most of his plays were highlights)+ arm strength and touch on his throws.I've also read that Wilson had maybe the biggest hands of any QB in the draft, which can help in rainy Seattle for holding on to the ball. Also, due to his high release point, his release point compares to RGIII and last season he had less passes batted down than Luck and Griffin.The reason he fell in the draft is solely on height but Wilson is superb at finding throwing lanes, something Brees has been able to do in his time in the NFL. I haven't even covered his character yet, he was named team captain within 20 days of being on the Wisonsin football team. One of the huge things Pete Carroll preaches is limiting turnovers and Wilson is a master at this. His freshman year at NC State the dude threw for 17 TDs and 1 INT! Last year, 39 total TDs, 4 INTs. :moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag:

So u wanna :drive: too?

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..., which can help in rainy Seattle for holding on to the ball.

Are you under the impression that it rains more in Seattle than other cities during football season?

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..., which can help in rainy Seattle for holding on to the ball.

Are you under the impression that it rains more in Seattle than other cities during football season?
It doesn't rain more in inches....not sure about actual rainy days, typically nice til around mid to late October though. Regardless weather is a factor because we don't have a dome so it has to be something to consider.

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

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+ arm strength and touch on his throws.

I think this is what's being missed, or ignored, by most folks who want to compare Wilson to Troy Smith/Pat White. Wilson can make all the requisite NFL throws. Smith/White(particularly White) can't/couldn't.That said, the height issues are very real and cannot be completely discounted. Wilson looked tremendous last year for the Badgers and equally so in the two years prior for the Woflpack, that can't be denied either, but he won't be facing Big 10+2 and ACC defenders on a weekly basis anymore. Nor will he have Wisconsin's fantastic OL in front of him either. I have no dog in this fight, but I like Wilson. I hope he pans out for some team, I'm just not holding my breath on it. However, the one thing that I think makes him more projectable than the Smiths/Whites of the world is the arm strength/touch. He's short, but he can make all the throws. That is huge. Edited by 5-ish Finkle

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QBBC - 3 guys who arent special. I see Seattle drafting another QB in 2 years

Im guessing the dump Tjax and keep Flynn, Wilson, and Portis. A lot of people really really like the talent of Portis...but he's raw. I still think Wilson plays a few games this year and goes into next year as the starter. If Portis is ready they will drop Flynn and draft another QB.

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

That's the part that always seems to get lost...I think Waldman had the stat in another thread, but I believe his "shortest" lineman at Wisconsin was a 6'4 Center. All of the Centers drafted in the NFL the past five drafts are 6'4 or shorter. While some say he won't have a line like that in the NFL, truth is, he is one of the few we know that can succeed behind an NFL sized line.

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

That's the part that always seems to get lost...I think Waldman had the stat in another thread, but I believe his "shortest" lineman at Wisconsin was a 6'4 Center. All of the Centers drafted in the NFL the past five drafts are 6'4 or shorter. While some say he won't have a line like that in the NFL, truth is, he is one of the few we know that can succeed behind an NFL sized line.
His offensive line may have been big in Wisconsin but what doesn't get mentioned is that Wisconsin tailored their offense to help Wilson. Instead of taking 3 or 5 step drops they ran more 7 step drops. I imagine the same will have to be done in Seattle.

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If Wilson becomes starter this year or next, does the GM get canned? I mean, they spent some coin to bring in Flynn. If he flops, someone will take some heat. Petey will dance around it all, like he always does(or leave for another job).

If either Flynn or Wilson become a legitimate, good, starting QB, I promise nobody cares which one it is, and nobody will get any heat if either of them work out.
If none work out then their may start to be some issues.

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this guys is going to be one heck of player i saw some stuff about him walking in madison one time and you just knew he was going to be great and he was all year but unfortuntely his d was not the badgers o that he ran was national champion good but the d was only about top 25 maybe good which was the problem not him and monte the td machine ball or nick tuna toon sandwhich that is for sure so take it to the bank swc is behind him so he is a brohan and will tear it up my brothers from various other mothers

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His offensive line may have been big in Wisconsin but what doesn't get mentioned is that Wisconsin tailored their offense to help Wilson. Instead of taking 3 or 5 step drops they ran more 7 step drops. I imagine the same will have to be done in Seattle.

Hmmm, where did you read/hear that? I was just looking at Waldman's RSP and it gives a lot of individual play details for the first MSU and Oregon games. There's overlap and I didn't take the time to sort that out, but I count 5 step drops as by far the most common, followed by 3 steps, with 1- and 7-step drops being basically tied for 3rd most common.

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Russell Wilson highlights from last season in Wisconsin.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8r7wLnb1xc&feature=player_embeddedSome notes from watching: His play action? Sick, seems like everyone on D bites. Could be important with Lynch and Turbin. Way faster than I expected. Great pocket skills (granted these are highlights but judging from his numbers, most of his plays were highlights)+ arm strength and touch on his throws.I've also read that Wilson had maybe the biggest hands of any QB in the draft, which can help in rainy Seattle for holding on to the ball. Also, due to his high release point, his release point compares to RGIII and last season he had less passes batted down than Luck and Griffin.The reason he fell in the draft is solely on height but Wilson is superb at finding throwing lanes, something Brees has been able to do in his time in the NFL. I haven't even covered his character yet, he was named team captain within 20 days of being on the Wisonsin football team. One of the huge things Pete Carroll preaches is limiting turnovers and Wilson is a master at this. His freshman year at NC State the dude threw for 17 TDs and 1 INT! Last year, 39 total TDs, 4 INTs. :moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag: :moneybag:

:goodposting: I must admit I didn't see him play much at all, but from what I've been reading on this kid the ONLY knock on him is his height. But as you mentioned, he has a high to low throwing motion which makes up for his height. Philip Rivers has/had an awkward sidearm throwing motion that people said wouldn't work in the NFL because his passes would get swatted at the line. What's his stat line looked like since coming in to the league?With that said, I just picked him up with the 5.05 pick in a 12 team start 2 QB league. He's being overlooked at the moment, but that may not last if word keeps getting out.

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:lmao: 5'-11"...maybe. He will go the way of Troy Smith and Pat White, both thought of as potential NFL starters yet failed miserably. His best case scenario is backup and injury fill in like that Wallace bum who I saw that they likened him to during the draft.

Fantaasy irrelevant.

Smith

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=569728 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=577975 among others

White

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466293 & http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=466116

I don't think anyone, besides the management that selected him, thought White would be more than a gimmick. Everyone is saying if you add two measly inches to Wilson's frame, you are looking at a 1st/2nd rounder. I think Wilson is worth a strong look based on that fact that he excelled at two different, big conference colleges...most of the time, a transfer is running from an issue, or trying to find a better program, and all Wilson did was set records at two different big college programs...at the worst, he has proven he can grasp a new concept, which happens all the time in the NFL.
:goodposting:

As usual, very classy intelligent post SL. Just because a guy is not prototypical size, does not mean he can't have success. People prove the "experts" wrong everyday in the NFL. If a guy has the skill set and then you add in hard worker and intelligence, he may end up proving people wrong if given a chance.

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the ONLY knock on him is his height.

Correct, it's a very big obstacle for him to overcome but he has all the skills you would want from a franchise QB. If RG3 were 3" shorter they'd be very comparable prospects, slight edge to RG3 still because of the deep ball accuracy but that's about it.Love Wilson.

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

That's the part that always seems to get lost...I think Waldman had the stat in another thread, but I believe his "shortest" lineman at Wisconsin was a 6'4 Center. All of the Centers drafted in the NFL the past five drafts are 6'4 or shorter. While some say he won't have a line like that in the NFL, truth is, he is one of the few we know that can succeed behind an NFL sized line.
His offensive line may have been big in Wisconsin but what doesn't get mentioned is that Wisconsin tailored their offense to help Wilson. Instead of taking 3 or 5 step drops they ran more 7 step drops. I imagine the same will have to be done in Seattle.
Did they run 7 step drops at NC State? Legit question (I do not know the answer), but again, he is the only guy in memory to rip it up at two different BCS conference schools...it is kind of my point, in that he seems to be "plug and play"...more so than any other prospect we have seen.

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

That's the part that always seems to get lost...I think Waldman had the stat in another thread, but I believe his "shortest" lineman at Wisconsin was a 6'4 Center. All of the Centers drafted in the NFL the past five drafts are 6'4 or shorter. While some say he won't have a line like that in the NFL, truth is, he is one of the few we know that can succeed behind an NFL sized line.
His offensive line may have been big in Wisconsin but what doesn't get mentioned is that Wisconsin tailored their offense to help Wilson. Instead of taking 3 or 5 step drops they ran more 7 step drops. I imagine the same will have to be done in Seattle.
Did they run 7 step drops at NC State? Legit question (I do not know the answer), but again, he is the only guy in memory to rip it up at two different BCS conference schools...it is kind of my point, in that he seems to be "plug and play"...more so than any other prospect we have seen.
I'm not sure what they ran at NC State. To be honest, not sure what % seven step drops they ran at WI either. Before the draft they were talking about his chances on ESPN radio in Milwaukee. They said that WI ran more 7 step drops because of his height. Sounds reasonable and that would make sense in order to compensate for it. FWIW I like Wilson and hope he succeeds. I don't see the height being a problem with a good coach. He's got everything else you would want.

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Date: Wed May 9, 2012

Show: Brock and Salk

Seahawks coach Pete Carroll talks about Russell Wilson's skills, getting the team's 10 draft picks on the practice field, how the NFL's emphasis on player safety affects the future of the game, and more.

http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=9941444&p=3&n=

pretty good interview... I liked the part where they talked about giving the rooks iPads with a playbook app to save paper.

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Date: Wed May 9, 2012Show: Brock and SalkSeahawks coach Pete Carroll talks about Russell Wilson's skills, getting the team's 10 draft picks on the practice field, how the NFL's emphasis on player safety affects the future of the game, and more.http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=577&a=9941444&p=3&n=pretty good interview... I liked the part where they talked about giving the rooks iPads with a playbook app to save paper.

We are green out here.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

Obviously the odds are against him... but I think he has more of a chance than he's been given in the press so far... though I expect the tables to turn on that front quite rapidly. In fact this article was posted about an hr ago

Wilson shows few shortcomings

Caroll quote: ""I thought he did really well," head coach Pete Carroll said after practice. "We wore him out. He went all day long and he probably had like 70-something plays today -- he threw the ball a bunch. I thought he handled it really well — not beyond expectations in terms of handling the terminology at the line of scrimmage and the huddle and all of that, that's no big deal to him. He seems like a veteran in that regard. But he threw a lot of really good balls in a lot of tight windows today and did some good stuff. He had a little trouble on the deep ball — the defense played some things well. But all in all, I was really impressed with his first day. I was hoping it would look good, and it did, and he showed us some cool stuff today.""

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It is likely that I am a bigger Badger fan than all but 100 or so people in the world. So while I'm certainly biased, I know a lot about Russell Wilson.

Wilson has all the skills necessary to be successful in the NFL. He has intelligence, character, leadership, and work ethic that are off the charts. He makes less than 1 bad decision per game. I love the stat about how many passes Wilson got knocked down, but the NFL is a completely different game, so it's tough to know how much that tells us. I will say that the UW line was gigantic, so it's not like his OL will be any bigger.

Like Mel Kiper said when he was drafted, if Wilson can't succeed in the NFL, no short QB should ever be drafted again because the only thing that Wilson doesn't have is height. It's nearly impossible to predict QB success in the NFL, though, so who knows.

Bottom line, though, is that he's not in a position to be fantasy relevant for the next couple of years. It's really hard for me to believe that Seattle is going to pay Matt Flynn ~$8M / year to backup Wilson. My hope is that Seattle ends up trading one of the two guys.

The devil is in the details with contracts. The Seahawks could cut Flynn after next season and only be out $10 million. Also, the contract is actually for 3 years $19 million. The rest is in bonuses if he puts up big numbers.

Basically, I think Flynn has his shot to take the job and keep it this year. But if he doesn't, the Seahawks can cut bait pretty easily and relatively inexpensively in the grand scheme of things. And even if they don't cut him, Wilson is making less than $1 million a year, they could afford to pay Flynn $6 million per year to back him up. A combined $7 million for your top 2 QBs would be cheaper than pretty much 90% of the teams in the NFL.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

Call it a hunch but yeah, I do.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.
Victor Cruz 2010

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.
Victor Cruz 2010
Lol. I meant a quarterback.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
There have also been many times in the history of football where the better player started.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
There have also been many times in the history of football where the better player started.
That is mostly the case, just not always the case.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.
Victor Cruz 2010
Lol. I meant a quarterback.
Kurt Warner 2001

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.
Victor Cruz 2010
Lol. I meant a quarterback.
Kurt Warner 2001
I'm fishing actually. I'll stop.

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Do you guys think he is going to get an opportunity in 2012?

If he is the best in camp he will start
There have been many times in the history of football where the backup is better than the starter.
Name one.
Victor Cruz 2010
Lol. I meant a quarterback.
Kurt Warner 2001
I'm fishing actually. I'll stop.
I know. I actually had a lot of examples, but some were debatable like Aaron Rodgers behind Favre. I only threw out examples that were obvious.

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