Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Nice player. This QB draft class could rival 83 when all is said and done.
Luck
RGIII
Tannehill
Wilson
Foles
Luck
RGIII
Tannehill
Wilson
Foles
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QB Russell Wilson, PIT (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Neofight
Footballguy
Top to bottom, I think it will be better. I thought so last year before Foles broke out and I was just a hopeful Wildcat alumn pulling for him to get his chance.Hard to imagine that Luck would only be middle of the pack in terms of his production in year two. Great, great group of young QB's.
Warrior
Footballguy
I didn't know this was Alex Smith's 2nd year in the league, I guess you really do learn something new everyday.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Wilson's YPA of 8.29 is pretty amazing when you consider the mediocre receiving corps he has.
Tau837
Footballguy
They played a very tough SOS:proninja said:
1 game vs. New Orleans (#2 pass defense)
1 game vs. Houston (#3 pass defense)
1 game vs. Carolina (#6 pass defense)
2 games vs. San Francisco (#7 pass defense)
1 game vs. New York Giants (#10 pass defense)
1 game vs. Tennessee (#11 pass defense)
1 game vs. Indianapolis (#13 pass defense)
2 games vs. Arizona (#14 pass defense)
1 game vs. Tampa Bay (#17 pass defense)
2 games vs. St. Louis (#19 pass defense)
That's 6 games against top 10 pass defenses and 13 games against top 20 pass defenses.
His performance this season is also made much more impressive by these facts:
#1 WR (Harvin) missed 15 games
#2 WR (Rice) missed 8 games
#1 LT (Okung) missed 8 games
#1 RT (Giacomini) missed 7 games
az_prof
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
He is definitely a N.C. State alum, having gotten his BS degree there. Did he actually get another degree at Wisconsin (i.e., is he an alum)?
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
As the OG of this thread.... Boom
Henry Ford
Footballguy
So happy I took this guy in my dynasty league as a rookie.
mcintyre1
Footballguy
No kidding. Can't believe some guy was ribbing me for ranking the QBs RG3 - Wilson - Luck at the start of the thread. I'd put him first now, personally.
Riversco
Footballguy
Wilson can't seem to get any respect. He looked so good rolling out and finding out the open. He kept coverting those 3rd downs with clutch throws. What really highlighted it for me was when Tarvaris Jackson came in. He rolled out and had time and couldn't find anyone and just threw it away. That was a play where Wilson finds the open guy for a big gain.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
drfeelgood
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
. Luck will outscore Wilson 90% of the years they are both in the league with a great shot at outscoring him every year. Currently it's 2-0 Luck. You actually have successfully ranked them backwards.There are a lot of guys in both your leagues that are glad you guys have him as your #1.
Riversco
Footballguy
Its easier to run out the clock by completing a pass inbounds over throwing it away. Just saying.
Yenrub
Footballguy
A bigger name QB (Brady, Brees, Manning etc.) probably would have gotten the MVP with last nights performance
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
Let the pile on commence
Gargoylez
Footballguy
I think for once I will agree with this guy. I had no doubt in my mind that Wilson was MVP... but then everyone said this LB guy won it... we were all like WHO? LOL! Can't argue to much tho, INT, TD, Fumble Recovery and 9 tackles. Talk about flying under the radar.
Tau837
Footballguy
A problem is that the entire Seahawks team played well. It is difficult to single out one player on the defense to give the award to. Smith was a reasonable choice, but I don't think he truly stood out from his defensive teammates, he just happened to be in position to catch the interception once Manning was hit as he threw that ball, and then there was no one between him and a TD. But I think Chancellor and some of the front 7 made a bigger impact. So did Sherman, considering they essentially ignored whoever he was covering all night.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
As for Wilson, he played really well. Better than just looking at the numbers would indicate.
On their first drive, he converted their first third down with a pass, and he scrambled on the second third down on the play that was challenged. Looked like he should have had the first down to me, but they didn't give it to him. So they kicked the FG.
On their second drive, he converted three straight third downs with passes, and on the 4th third down, he hit Kearse in the end zone on a play that could have been a TD, but Nate Irving made a good play to knock the ball out of Kearse's hands. So they kicked the FG.
On their third drive, Seattle had a short field after an interception. Wilson completed two passes and the Seahawks ran three times to get to the DEN 5 yard line. Wilson helped to draw DPI on the 6th play, which was a 3rd down, and that put the Seahawks on the 1 yard line, leading to Lynch's TD run.
Wilson accounted for 104 yards on those first three drives and converted 5 of 7 third downs, and the other two were 'this close' to another first down and a TD. All of that happened when the game was still in doubt; he played well and led the team to a 15-0 lead.
It was that stretch that made him a worthy MVP candidate. The fact that he added 2 TDs late was just icing on the cake.
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mcintyre1
Footballguy
There are a lot of guys in both your leagues that are glad you guys have him as your #1.
In all of my leagues, it's 1-1 Wilson/Luck with a razor thin margin between the two this year. I'll take that considering I like Wilson's chances of staying a relevant fantasy starter better. I'm happy to continually be proved right.
There are a lot of guys in both your leagues that are glad you guys have him as your #1.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't disagree with the defensive comments....several guys could have been selected and they'd all have deserved it because the defense set the tone and completely controlled the game from the gate. The rest of your comments boil down to Wilson converting some third downs and somehow helping induce a pass interference call. I don't know how he did the latter. The guy never turned his head to defend and was flagged for it, but ok. Also, not following your math on the 104 yards comment. Seattle had 114 yards in the first 3 drives (the time we were talking about)....in that timeframe Harvin had a 30 yardish run....not sure how many rush yards Lynch had but it wasn't many...Denver did a pretty good job against him early. Perhaps the disparity in the math has to do with penalties or some such.A problem is that the entire Seahawks team played well. It is difficult to single out one player on the defense to give the award to. Smith was a reasonable choice, but I don't think he truly stood out from his defensive teammates, he just happened to be in position to catch the interception once Manning was hit as he threw that ball, and then there was no one between him and a TD. But I think Chancellor and some of the front 7 made a bigger impact. So did Sherman, considering they essentially ignored whoever he was covering all night.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
As for Wilson, he played really well. Better than just looking at the numbers would indicate.
On their first drive, he converted their first third down with a pass, and he scrambled on the second third down on the play that was challenged. Looked like he should have had the first down to me, but they didn't give it to him. So they kicked the FG.
On their second drive, he converted three straight third downs with passes, and on the 4th third down, he hit Kearse in the end zone on a play that could have been a TD, but Nate Irving made a good play to knock the ball out of Kearse's hands. So they kicked the FG.
On their third drive, Seattle had a short field after an interception. Wilson completed two passes and the Seahawks ran three times to get to the DEN 5 yard line. Wilson helped to draw DPI on the 6th play, which was a 3rd down, and that put the Seahawks on the 1 yard line, leading to Lynch's TD run.
Wilson accounted for 104 yards on those first three drives and converted 5 of 7 third downs, and the other two were 'this close' to another first down and a TD. All of that happened when the game was still in doubt; he played well and led the team to a 15-0 lead.
It was that stretch that made him a worthy MVP candidate. The fact that he added 2 TDs late was just icing on the cake.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
In one thread the TSP is correctly discussing whether the 2013 Seahawks defense belong with the 85 Bears, 00 Ravens, and 70s Phins (which I think they do).I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
The Bears, Ravens, Dolphins all produced defensive MVP's in the SB. I think it was totally appropriate the Sehawks defense got the same recognition. SEA does not have a Lawrence Taylor or Ray Lewis type that dominates, they are a traditional, great football defense that swarms to the ball and outcoaches and outplays every offense.
Personally I think Kam Chancellor was deserving as a co-MVP, which he could have shared with a Wagner or Avril or even Smith (who did after all get 2 takeaways including IMO the clinching killing score). Dallas had a co-MVP award go to defensive players in SB XII (vs Denver).
Wilson is terrific, I especially love that beautiful looping over the top pass he throws, but we have yet to see him drive a high flying offense like we saw at Wisconsin or of the kind that nets QBs MVP's in SBs.
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ericttspikes
Footballguy
Brady won his first SB MVP with a 16/27, 145, 1TD game. The NE D shut down the 2 TD favorite Greatest Show on Turf, and Ty Law had an impressive pick 6. Wilson was robbed (maybe Ty Law was too).
If they had to give it to a D player; Avril or Chancellor were more deserving IMO.
If they had to give it to a D player; Avril or Chancellor were more deserving IMO.
Tau837
Footballguy
You don't know how he helped draw a DPI? He threw an accurate pass to his receiver in the end zone, and the defender interfered with him. If the defender didn't interfere, it probably would have been a TD.I don't disagree with the defensive comments....several guys could have been selected and they'd all have deserved it because the defense set the tone and completely controlled the game from the gate. The rest of your comments boil down to Wilson converting some third downs and somehow helping induce a pass interference call. I don't know how he did the latter. The guy never turned his head to defend and was flagged for it, but ok. Also, not following your math on the 104 yards comment. Seattle had 114 yards in the first 3 drives (the time we were talking about)....in that timeframe Harvin had a 30 yardish run....not sure how many rush yards Lynch had but it wasn't many...Denver did a pretty good job against him early. Perhaps the disparity in the math has to do with penalties or some such.A problem is that the entire Seahawks team played well. It is difficult to single out one player on the defense to give the award to. Smith was a reasonable choice, but I don't think he truly stood out from his defensive teammates, he just happened to be in position to catch the interception once Manning was hit as he threw that ball, and then there was no one between him and a TD. But I think Chancellor and some of the front 7 made a bigger impact. So did Sherman, considering they essentially ignored whoever he was covering all night.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
As for Wilson, he played really well. Better than just looking at the numbers would indicate.
On their first drive, he converted their first third down with a pass, and he scrambled on the second third down on the play that was challenged. Looked like he should have had the first down to me, but they didn't give it to him. So they kicked the FG.
On their second drive, he converted three straight third downs with passes, and on the 4th third down, he hit Kearse in the end zone on a play that could have been a TD, but Nate Irving made a good play to knock the ball out of Kearse's hands. So they kicked the FG.
On their third drive, Seattle had a short field after an interception. Wilson completed two passes and the Seahawks ran three times to get to the DEN 5 yard line. Wilson helped to draw DPI on the 6th play, which was a 3rd down, and that put the Seahawks on the 1 yard line, leading to Lynch's TD run.
Wilson accounted for 104 yards on those first three drives and converted 5 of 7 third downs, and the other two were 'this close' to another first down and a TD. All of that happened when the game was still in doubt; he played well and led the team to a 15-0 lead.
It was that stretch that made him a worthy MVP candidate. The fact that he added 2 TDs late was just icing on the cake.
I'm not surprised Wilson didn't win the MVP, but people are underappreciating how well he played. The game was over after Seattle's first three drives. Wilson played really well on those drives, as I outlined. He was calm, made good decisions, was accurate on his throws, avoided pressure, and scrambled for positive gains a couple of times.
As for the yardage, here are all of Wilson's plays on the first three drives:
1st and 15 at DEN 36 R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to Z.Miller.
2nd and 15 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to J.Kearse to DEN 30 for 6 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 9 at DEN 30 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to J.Kearse to DEN 18 for 12 yards (M.Adams).
2nd and 11 at DEN 19 (Shotgun) R.Wilson left end pushed ob at DEN 14 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 6 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson scrambles left end pushed ob at DEN 9 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho). Seattle challenged the first down ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 7 at SEA 31 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to G.Tate ran ob at SEA 40 for 9 yards.
1st and 10 at SEA 40 R.Wilson pass short right to M.Robinson to SEA 47 for 7 yards (D.Trevathan).
3rd and 4 at SEA 46 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Baldwin to DEN 48 for 6 yards (C.Bailey).
1st and 10 at DEN 48 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to P.Harvin to DEN 43 for 5 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 5 at DEN 43 R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to L.Willson. Flea-Flicker play involving M.Lynch. R.Wilson laterals ball to M.Lynch who laterals back to R.Wilson.
3rd and 5 at DEN 43 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass deep left to D.Baldwin to DEN 6 for 37 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to P.Harvin. Denver challenged the backward pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to J.Kearse (N.Irving).
1st and 10 at DEN 22 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to L.Willson to DEN 17 for 5 yards (N.Irving).
2nd and 11 at DEN 12 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to D.Baldwin to DEN 5 for 7 yards (P.Lenon).
3rd and 4 at DEN 5 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to G.Tate (T.Carter). PENALTY on DEN-T.Carter, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 5 - No Play.
That's 104 yards.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
If IIRC the Rams still got 17 points and had tied the game on a last minute drive by Warner, only to be upstaged by Brady who did the same, but this time with a game winning drive. Brady was the biggest difference maker in that game because of that. Warner had 365 yards passing and a game tying TD drive in the last minute or so. Wilson was one of many difference makers for SEA but he did not lead a game winning drive.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Didn't Brady take the team down the field for the win?
I think Wilson played great but both TD's were all YAC and amazing plays by the revievers after the game was pretty much over. His number look great and if you watched the game (not saying you didn't) then you know why he didn't win MVP
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Yeah, I actually drafted Wilson and then traded for Luck. People are very upset with me in the league right now.
There are a lot of guys in both your leagues that are glad you guys have him as your #1.
The Commish
Footballguy
We must be talking about different callsYou don't know how he helped draw a DPI? He threw an accurate pass to his receiver in the end zone, and the defender interfered with him. If the defender didn't interfere, it probably would have been a TD.I don't disagree with the defensive comments....several guys could have been selected and they'd all have deserved it because the defense set the tone and completely controlled the game from the gate. The rest of your comments boil down to Wilson converting some third downs and somehow helping induce a pass interference call. I don't know how he did the latter. The guy never turned his head to defend and was flagged for it, but ok. Also, not following your math on the 104 yards comment. Seattle had 114 yards in the first 3 drives (the time we were talking about)....in that timeframe Harvin had a 30 yardish run....not sure how many rush yards Lynch had but it wasn't many...Denver did a pretty good job against him early. Perhaps the disparity in the math has to do with penalties or some such.A problem is that the entire Seahawks team played well. It is difficult to single out one player on the defense to give the award to. Smith was a reasonable choice, but I don't think he truly stood out from his defensive teammates, he just happened to be in position to catch the interception once Manning was hit as he threw that ball, and then there was no one between him and a TD. But I think Chancellor and some of the front 7 made a bigger impact. So did Sherman, considering they essentially ignored whoever he was covering all night.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
As for Wilson, he played really well. Better than just looking at the numbers would indicate.
On their first drive, he converted their first third down with a pass, and he scrambled on the second third down on the play that was challenged. Looked like he should have had the first down to me, but they didn't give it to him. So they kicked the FG.
On their second drive, he converted three straight third downs with passes, and on the 4th third down, he hit Kearse in the end zone on a play that could have been a TD, but Nate Irving made a good play to knock the ball out of Kearse's hands. So they kicked the FG.
On their third drive, Seattle had a short field after an interception. Wilson completed two passes and the Seahawks ran three times to get to the DEN 5 yard line. Wilson helped to draw DPI on the 6th play, which was a 3rd down, and that put the Seahawks on the 1 yard line, leading to Lynch's TD run.
Wilson accounted for 104 yards on those first three drives and converted 5 of 7 third downs, and the other two were 'this close' to another first down and a TD. All of that happened when the game was still in doubt; he played well and led the team to a 15-0 lead.
It was that stretch that made him a worthy MVP candidate. The fact that he added 2 TDs late was just icing on the cake.
I'm not surprised Wilson didn't win the MVP, but people are underappreciating how well he played. The game was over after Seattle's first three drives. Wilson played really well on those drives, as I outlined. He was calm, made good decisions, was accurate on his throws, avoided pressure, and scrambled for positive gains a couple of times.
As for the yardage, here are all of Wilson's plays on the first three drives:
1st and 15 at DEN 36 R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to Z.Miller.
2nd and 15 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to J.Kearse to DEN 30 for 6 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 9 at DEN 30 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to J.Kearse to DEN 18 for 12 yards (M.Adams).
2nd and 11 at DEN 19 (Shotgun) R.Wilson left end pushed ob at DEN 14 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 6 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson scrambles left end pushed ob at DEN 9 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho). Seattle challenged the first down ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 7 at SEA 31 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to G.Tate ran ob at SEA 40 for 9 yards.
1st and 10 at SEA 40 R.Wilson pass short right to M.Robinson to SEA 47 for 7 yards (D.Trevathan).
3rd and 4 at SEA 46 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Baldwin to DEN 48 for 6 yards (C.Bailey).
1st and 10 at DEN 48 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to P.Harvin to DEN 43 for 5 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 5 at DEN 43 R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to L.Willson. Flea-Flicker play involving M.Lynch. R.Wilson laterals ball to M.Lynch who laterals back to R.Wilson.
3rd and 5 at DEN 43 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass deep left to D.Baldwin to DEN 6 for 37 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to P.Harvin. Denver challenged the backward pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to J.Kearse (N.Irving).
1st and 10 at DEN 22 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to L.Willson to DEN 17 for 5 yards (N.Irving).
2nd and 11 at DEN 12 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to D.Baldwin to DEN 5 for 7 yards (P.Lenon).
3rd and 4 at DEN 5 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to G.Tate (T.Carter). PENALTY on DEN-T.Carter, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 5 - No Play.
That's 104 yards.
The play I am talking about is the one in the back of the endzone that went off the WR's hand as he was being pushed out of bounds. Had the defensive back simply turned his head it would have been a fantastic defensive play (I am going by how the game was being called to that point....not turning your head makes the ref HAVE to throw a flag). If your point is that Wilson threw it to the point that it was considered catchable so the PI could be called, I'll agree. Personally, I think you're really grasping if that's part of why he should have been in the MVP race. And as I said before, it was just an 8 point game at that point. Those first three drives didn't put the game away IMO. The Seattle defense and special teams did. As for the yardage, yes....I didn't think about the penalty yards. Pass to Baldwin was fantastic.
Tau837
Footballguy
It was 15-0 after Seattle's first three drives. And it wouldn't have been if Wilson didn't play very well during those drives.We must be talking about different callsYou don't know how he helped draw a DPI? He threw an accurate pass to his receiver in the end zone, and the defender interfered with him. If the defender didn't interfere, it probably would have been a TD.I don't disagree with the defensive comments....several guys could have been selected and they'd all have deserved it because the defense set the tone and completely controlled the game from the gate. The rest of your comments boil down to Wilson converting some third downs and somehow helping induce a pass interference call. I don't know how he did the latter. The guy never turned his head to defend and was flagged for it, but ok. Also, not following your math on the 104 yards comment. Seattle had 114 yards in the first 3 drives (the time we were talking about)....in that timeframe Harvin had a 30 yardish run....not sure how many rush yards Lynch had but it wasn't many...Denver did a pretty good job against him early. Perhaps the disparity in the math has to do with penalties or some such.A problem is that the entire Seahawks team played well. It is difficult to single out one player on the defense to give the award to. Smith was a reasonable choice, but I don't think he truly stood out from his defensive teammates, he just happened to be in position to catch the interception once Manning was hit as he threw that ball, and then there was no one between him and a TD. But I think Chancellor and some of the front 7 made a bigger impact. So did Sherman, considering they essentially ignored whoever he was covering all night.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
As for Wilson, he played really well. Better than just looking at the numbers would indicate.
On their first drive, he converted their first third down with a pass, and he scrambled on the second third down on the play that was challenged. Looked like he should have had the first down to me, but they didn't give it to him. So they kicked the FG.
On their second drive, he converted three straight third downs with passes, and on the 4th third down, he hit Kearse in the end zone on a play that could have been a TD, but Nate Irving made a good play to knock the ball out of Kearse's hands. So they kicked the FG.
On their third drive, Seattle had a short field after an interception. Wilson completed two passes and the Seahawks ran three times to get to the DEN 5 yard line. Wilson helped to draw DPI on the 6th play, which was a 3rd down, and that put the Seahawks on the 1 yard line, leading to Lynch's TD run.
Wilson accounted for 104 yards on those first three drives and converted 5 of 7 third downs, and the other two were 'this close' to another first down and a TD. All of that happened when the game was still in doubt; he played well and led the team to a 15-0 lead.
It was that stretch that made him a worthy MVP candidate. The fact that he added 2 TDs late was just icing on the cake.
I'm not surprised Wilson didn't win the MVP, but people are underappreciating how well he played. The game was over after Seattle's first three drives. Wilson played really well on those drives, as I outlined. He was calm, made good decisions, was accurate on his throws, avoided pressure, and scrambled for positive gains a couple of times.
As for the yardage, here are all of Wilson's plays on the first three drives:
1st and 15 at DEN 36 R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to Z.Miller.
2nd and 15 at DEN 36 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to J.Kearse to DEN 30 for 6 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 9 at DEN 30 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to J.Kearse to DEN 18 for 12 yards (M.Adams).
2nd and 11 at DEN 19 (Shotgun) R.Wilson left end pushed ob at DEN 14 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho).
3rd and 6 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson scrambles left end pushed ob at DEN 9 for 5 yards (D.Ihenacho). Seattle challenged the first down ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 7 at SEA 31 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to G.Tate ran ob at SEA 40 for 9 yards.
1st and 10 at SEA 40 R.Wilson pass short right to M.Robinson to SEA 47 for 7 yards (D.Trevathan).
3rd and 4 at SEA 46 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to D.Baldwin to DEN 48 for 6 yards (C.Bailey).
1st and 10 at DEN 48 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to P.Harvin to DEN 43 for 5 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 5 at DEN 43 R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to L.Willson. Flea-Flicker play involving M.Lynch. R.Wilson laterals ball to M.Lynch who laterals back to R.Wilson.
3rd and 5 at DEN 43 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass deep left to D.Baldwin to DEN 6 for 37 yards (C.Bailey).
2nd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left to P.Harvin. Denver challenged the backward pass ruling, and the play was Upheld. (Timeout #1.)
3rd and 14 at DEN 14 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short middle to J.Kearse (N.Irving).
1st and 10 at DEN 22 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to L.Willson to DEN 17 for 5 yards (N.Irving).
2nd and 11 at DEN 12 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to D.Baldwin to DEN 5 for 7 yards (P.Lenon).
3rd and 4 at DEN 5 (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short right to G.Tate (T.Carter). PENALTY on DEN-T.Carter, Defensive Pass Interference, 4 yards, enforced at DEN 5 - No Play.
That's 104 yards.
The Commish
Footballguy
And I don't disagree. Problem is, at least for this discussion, same can be said for Harvin or the WRs catching the balls or Lynch.It was 15-0 after Seattle's first three drives. And it wouldn't have been if Wilson didn't play very well during those drives.
Tau837
Footballguy
I disagree. Harvin had 3 productive touches on the first 3 drives, but there is no reason to believe they would have failed on those drives had he not been productive. And Lynch was pedestrian on those drives. Wilson was the catalyst.And I don't disagree. Problem is, at least for this discussion, same can be said for Harvin or the WRs catching the balls or Lynch.It was 15-0 after Seattle's first three drives. And it wouldn't have been if Wilson didn't play very well during those drives.
The Duff Man
Footballguy
Agree 100 percent.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
Wilson = Trent Dilfer
Manage the game and collect your ring.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Tanner9919
Footballguy
he's as good as they come..I was a non-believer, didn't think he could make it happen at this SB.but he nailed it.he quietly had a great game.
.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Yeah....not even close to what I was saying.Agree 100 percent.I'm really going to regret this but here it goes. In the interest of full disclosure, I really like Wilson and have always rooted for him. With that said, what did he do that warranted an MVP consideration above a hand full of defensive players for Seattle and Harvin on offense? He "settled down" (term from above) after they were up 29-0 and got his TDs when the game was well out of hand. Is getting them in field goal range really MVP play? That entire first quarter was completely controlled by the Seattle defense. Denver was absolutely dominated in all aspects and it was still a one score game because the Seattle offense had to settle for field goals. Then came an INT for a TD and the kickoff return for a TD. Game was over by then and Wilson got two TDs when it really didn't matter any more.
Let the pile on commence
Wilson = Trent Dilfer
Manage the game and collect your ring.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
That is just more proof of why it is stupid to give out grades right after the draft. Who's to say what picks will or will not pan out?
The Commish
Footballguy
You seem to be in a logic loop here. All those guys sans Lynch (good point) were key pieces to those drives. There's no reason to believe any of those drives would have been successful if any of those pieces didn't do what they did Wilson included.I disagree. Harvin had 3 productive touches on the first 3 drives, but there is no reason to believe they would have failed on those drives had he not been productive. And Lynch was pedestrian on those drives. Wilson was the catalyst.And I don't disagree. Problem is, at least for this discussion, same can be said for Harvin or the WRs catching the balls or Lynch.It was 15-0 after Seattle's first three drives. And it wouldn't have been if Wilson didn't play very well during those drives.
Tau837
Footballguy
Wilson played very well in the first 3 drives (and the entire game, for that matter). If Harvin didn't break his 30 yard run or his 15 yard run, there is no reason to think Wilson wouldn't have gotten a first down later in the series in each case. He was 5/7 on third downs on those drives, with the two that were missed extremely close (the reviewed spot on his scramble, and the TD pass Nate Irving broke up in the end zone).You seem to be in a logic loop here. All those guys sans Lynch (good point) were key pieces to those drives. There's no reason to believe any of those drives would have been successful if any of those pieces didn't do what they did Wilson included.I disagree. Harvin had 3 productive touches on the first 3 drives, but there is no reason to believe they would have failed on those drives had he not been productive. And Lynch was pedestrian on those drives. Wilson was the catalyst.And I don't disagree. Problem is, at least for this discussion, same can be said for Harvin or the WRs catching the balls or Lynch.It was 15-0 after Seattle's first three drives. And it wouldn't have been if Wilson didn't play very well during those drives.
Lynch did not play well on those 3 drives. He got the TD, but he only got 10 yards on 8 carries in those drives, not including a 2 yard loss that was wiped out due to offensive holding.
You mention the WRs catching the balls. Sure, they played well, but Wilson had to get them the ball. And he did, hitting 6 different receivers on those 3 drives.
There is no logic loop.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Wilson might have been the MVP had his two touchdown passes came earlier in the game, instead of later when the Broncos defense had all but given up (see: the pathetic tackling on Kearse's touchdown). Plus, Seattle's defense was just so utterly dominant, you almost had to give it to someone from that unit.
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Dinkle Heimer
Footballguy
LOL at Wilson not playing well because the WRs were the ones catching his passes. Wilson had five 3rd down conversions to 4 different WRs in the first half alone. Last year in the playoffs against Atlanta he passed for 385 yards because his team fell behind. He simply hasn't needed to do that much this season.
The Commish
Footballguy
No one's said Wilson didn't play well. It's simply puzzling that with all the significant impact plays (especially on defense) there are those that think making third down conversions in the first half of the game and settling for field goals on two of the drives is MVP worthy. Reality is, if Denver had somehow removed it's head from it's butt and kept the game close til the fourth quarter we'd be talking about how teams can't settle for field goals and expect to win the superbowl. This game was over early because the Seattle defense made it so....not because Wilson converted a few 3rd downs early in the game while settling for field goals.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
What were his numbers?proninja said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I meant completions, attempts, yards (rushing and passing), TD's and TO's.proninja said:
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Now it's getting wierd.proninja said:
I dont have a horse in the race. I did watch the game. I dont recall the stats but I do remember feeling like they were mediocre (average).
Unless you're Russell you need to relax a bit.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Exactly. So why would you give a sheet if your QB played average in the first half of a game you won? See the wierdness?proninja said:It's weird how you don't think I'm relaxed. I'm really relaxed. We've got a parade going on.
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