Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
As one of the top performers in one of the world's top businesses, he's still probably underpaid.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
QB Russell Wilson, PIT (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter ImTheScientist
- Start date
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Just looking at the 35 highest paid QBs (tossing out the 6th round rookies and recycled back-ups), the bottom 10 in salary were
Mahomes, Watson, Rosen, Daniels, Allen, Fitz, Tyrod, Wentz, Winston, Mariotta...so I see 3 teams that made the playoffs from that group and 1 of those teams was actually led by their more expensive back-up.
It's the nature of the salary cap and the value of the QB. Seattle won their SB with a cheap Wilson and a great D. Their only hope now is drafting incredibly well because they, like a few other teams, paid the QB to stay and wont be able to afford to pay as many other top players. CLE & KC are in the same boat once their QBs get to their next contract.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
It was good drafting more than anything. From 2009-2012, Seattle drafted 8 Pro Bowlers: QB, LT, C, 2 Safeties, 2 LBs, CB. Since that 2012 draft when they took Wilson, they have drafted 2 Pro Bowlers: KR and a Punter.
Add .....highest paid player in the NFL to his already long list of accomplishments. What an amazing talent.
And he's done it without that really stud WR, no Rice, Moss, Julio, Antonio, etc etc.
Comparing his first seven seasons to Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, we see just how great he's been.
Do wonder if that bit about the wife wanting to live in NY was a ploy, hmmm?
And he's done it without that really stud WR, no Rice, Moss, Julio, Antonio, etc etc.
Comparing his first seven seasons to Brady, Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, we see just how great he's been.
Do wonder if that bit about the wife wanting to live in NY was a ploy, hmmm?
Last edited by a moderator:
My point is its very difficult to build a winning team when you tie up a lot cap money in one player. To be fair, GB is a terrible team excluding Rogers. Just look a their record when he is hurt...
Last edited by a moderator:
Bozo
Footballguy
Pretty sure he is happy though. Still have to pay other players and stay under cap.
Tau837
Footballguy
So be clear about what you think Seattle should have done:
- This deal.
- Trade him, knowing they almost certainly could not get back true value and knowing this means starting over at QB (and with what?).
- Extend this decision point by 1-4 seasons by having him play out this season ($25.3M cap hit), then franchising him 0-3 times, understanding that giving him another deal later would require a bigger deal due to QB market inflation.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He turned Doug Baldwin into a Pro Bowler. He’s had some of the worst all around offensive talent around him the last few years. I think he’s probably the best QB in the NFL right now and it’s a shame we might never seen him in his prime with an offense that just lets him loose. He’s going to be the highest paid player in the NFL this year and lead the league in handoffs.
To do what he's done in that system with the talent he hasn't had is really amazing. NOBODY....else could have done what he did.
I don't think people really get how HISTORICALLY great he has been in his seven seasons. The guy owns a number of NFL records, many of them were firsts.
He is the best passer/runner/leader we have seen. His numbers totally dwarf all the old legends (after seven seasons) but......different game back then....but he still has the far superior numbers. He's out played all these current guys at the same stage of the career. And, he walked right in and took over.
I totally agree with you, I also think Wilson is the best QB in the NFL right now today.
Last edited by a moderator:
Either 2 or 3 will work out better then the route they took imo. Especially now that it appears Seattle offense is a run first thus devaluing the qb position.
When you have a great Hall of Fame to be QB you do all you can to make him happy, the Seahawks did the right thing, so....1.
Tau837
Footballguy
So I've read that the deal is structured something like this:
IMO this looks like a good deal for Seattle, all things considered:
- $65M signing bonus (guaranteed)
- 2019 salary $5M (guaranteed) = 2019 cap hit $18M - reduced 2019 cap hit by $7.3M
- 2020 salary $18M (guaranteed) = 2020 cap hit $31M - approximately equal to the 2020 QB franchise tag
- 2021 salary $19M (guaranteed) = 2021 cap hit $32M - less than Wilson's 2021 QB franchise tag would have been on a second consecutive tag
- That leaves $50M unaccounted for, so possibly something like:
2022 salary + roster bonus = $23M = 2022 cap hit of $36M - considerably less than Wilson's 2022 QB franchise tag would have been on a third consecutive tag
- 2023 salary + roster bonus = $27M = 2023 cap hit of $40M - could trade/release him prior to this season with $13M in dead money in 2023
IMO this looks like a good deal for Seattle, all things considered:
- The team has Wilson - the best QB in franchise history and the face of the franchise - under contract through 2023. He will be 35 at the end of that season, so they have him under contract for the majority of his prime.
- The team gets immediate cap relief for 2019.
- His cap hits in 2019-2021 are collectively lower than if they allowed him to play out his original contract this year and then franchised him in 2020 and 2021.
- This preserves the franchise tag for the team to use on other players if desired from 2020-2022.
- The team can move on for a relatively low dead money hit before 2023 if desired ($13M will be a lower percentage of the cap by then). Or they can extend him again before that season to possibly reduce his $40M cap hit.
- The only season that might be particularly tough under this contract is 2022. But the QB market will also be reset at a higher level by then, and I predict that cap hit will not be out of line with upper tier QBs by that time.
Last edited by a moderator:
BassNBrew
Footballguy
He won't be in the top half of the QBs salary wise by then. I actually think 19 and 20 will be the tough years and then cap growth and other QBs cashing in thins will favor Seattle after that.So I've read that the deal is structured something like this:
- $65M signing bonus (guaranteed)
- 2019 salary $5M (guaranteed) = 2019 cap hit $18M - reduced 2019 cap hit by $7.3M
- 2020 salary $18M (guaranteed) = 2020 cap hit $31M - approximately equal to the 2020 QB franchise tag
- 2021 salary $19M (guaranteed) = 2021 cap hit $32M - less than Wilson's 2021 QB franchise tag would have been on a second consecutive tag
- That leaves $50M unaccounted for, so possibly something like:
2022 salary + roster bonus = $23M = 2022 cap hit of $36M - considerably less than Wilson's 2022 QB franchise tag would have been on a third consecutive tag
- 2023 salary + roster bonus = $27M = 2023 cap hit of $40M - could trade/release him prior to this season with $13M in dead money in 2023
IMO this looks like a good deal for Seattle, all things considered:
- The team has Wilson - the best QB in franchise history and the face of the franchise - under contract through 2023. He will be 35 at the end of that season, so they have him under contract for the majority of his prime.
- The team gets immediate cap relief for 2019.
- His cap hits in 2019-2021 are collectively lower than if they allowed him to play out his original contract this year and then franchised him in 2020 and 2021.
- This preserves the franchise tag for the team to use on other players if desired from 2020-2022.
- The team can move on for a relatively low dead money hit before 2023 if desired ($13M will be a lower percentage of the cap by then). Or they can extend him again before that season to possibly reduce his $40M cap hit.
- The only season that might be particularly tough under this contract is 2022. But the QB market will also be reset at a higher level by then, and I predict that cap hit will not be out of line with upper tier QBs by that time.
Tau837
Footballguy
2019 cannot really be viewed as a tough year... this contract lowered his 2019 cap hit by $7.3M... he is now set to have around the #18 cap hit at QB in 2019... and that is before any other QB contract changes are put in place this offseason.
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Good for Wilson. Hopefully he performs well for that type of contract.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
It's a tough call. It's really sad for the game that it's now like this. Your window of opportunity is now predicated on drafting a real franchise QB and hoping to win I all before you have to pay him. It's not on great drafting over a span of years anymore. Another thing that has hurt is ham & egger QBs getting paid big $ and driving up the price of the better ones. Flacco.
ComfortablyNumb
Footballguy
While I recognize that the top players gotta get their money, I certainly won't feel sorry for Wilson when he's frequently hit/sacked behind a bargain basement OL while trying to find open WR's who the 'hawks can't afford to pay...
Only Russell Wilson has ever had a 100 passer rating in his first two NFL seasons. He has had four 100 seasons in his first seven. I do doubt anyone else can say that.
Who else can do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i40lyttr_w
Who else can do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i40lyttr_w
Last edited by a moderator:
Tau837
Footballguy
Pretty close on the numbers above. Forgot that 2019 will include the remainder of his previous signing bonus plus the remainder of previous restructuring, where he converted salary to bonus to pro-rate it. That stuff totals to $8.2M in 2019, so his 2019 cap hit is $26.2M. 2020 and 2021 are as above. 2022 is $1M more and 2023 is $1M less.So I've read that the deal is structured something like this:
- $65M signing bonus (guaranteed)
- 2019 salary $5M (guaranteed) = 2019 cap hit $18M - reduced 2019 cap hit by $7.3M
- 2020 salary $18M (guaranteed) = 2020 cap hit $31M - approximately equal to the 2020 QB franchise tag
- 2021 salary $19M (guaranteed) = 2021 cap hit $32M - less than Wilson's 2021 QB franchise tag would have been on a second consecutive tag
- That leaves $50M unaccounted for, so possibly something like:
2022 salary + roster bonus = $23M = 2022 cap hit of $36M - considerably less than Wilson's 2022 QB franchise tag would have been on a third consecutive tag
- 2023 salary + roster bonus = $27M = 2023 cap hit of $40M - could trade/release him prior to this season with $13M in dead money in 2023
IMO this looks like a good deal for Seattle, all things considered:
- The team has Wilson - the best QB in franchise history and the face of the franchise - under contract through 2023. He will be 35 at the end of that season, so they have him under contract for the majority of his prime.
- The team gets immediate cap relief for 2019.
- His cap hits in 2019-2021 are collectively lower than if they allowed him to play out his original contract this year and then franchised him in 2020 and 2021.
- This preserves the franchise tag for the team to use on other players if desired from 2020-2022.
- The team can move on for a relatively low dead money hit before 2023 if desired ($13M will be a lower percentage of the cap by then). Or they can extend him again before that season to possibly reduce his $40M cap hit.
- The only season that might be particularly tough under this contract is 2022. But the QB market will also be reset at a higher level by then, and I predict that cap hit will not be out of line with upper tier QBs by that time.
the lone star
Footballguy
A lot of people overlook this guy when discussing the elite QBs in the league. Honestly, the dude might have better arm talent than Tom Brady. It for sure seems to be better than Rivers and Ryan, and probably even Big Ben at this point since Ben is a bit careless. Honestly, if everyone is at their best, then maybe only Aaron Rodgers have more arm talent than Russ.
Last edited by a moderator:
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
This is a good article on the Seattle passing game explaining the effectiveness of play-action as they lead the league in rushing which makes Russell Wilson's play-action so effective. It is about how they drafted big fast WRs to take advantage of and exploit play-action and how they are dealing with Doug Baldwin's retirement.
Baldwin helped bail out Russell when he scrambled to buy time so i'm not sure it Tyler Locket can fill that role but on play-action Russell Should clean up. Last year he had 35 TDs even though they lead the league in rushing and attempted the least passes which shows how effective they are with play-action. Baldwin retiring leaves huge void. So bigger, faster Seahawks working deeper pass game
Baldwin helped bail out Russell when he scrambled to buy time so i'm not sure it Tyler Locket can fill that role but on play-action Russell Should clean up. Last year he had 35 TDs even though they lead the league in rushing and attempted the least passes which shows how effective they are with play-action. Baldwin retiring leaves huge void. So bigger, faster Seahawks working deeper pass game
It is a really good article that goes into much more detail on the roles of the WRs. It should make any Russell Wilson owner pumped.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Wilson is a great real-life QB, but in FF, he just doesn't throw enough to keep pace with guys who are throwing for near or over 5K yards. He did finish QB1 in 2017, but that was with 553 attempts and 95 carries. He then finished QB10 last year, with only 427 attempts and 67 carries. For fantasy purposes, he is too efficient for his own good. Even though he has finished as a QB1 every year he has been in the league, how can he compete with a guy like Ben, who threw 262 more passes? If you do the math, it's like Russell is giving Ben a 10 game head start.
The Frankman
Footballguy
He was also attributed with a fumble after the game.
Last edited by a moderator:
The Frankman
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
hamsterdam
Footballguy
Was going to try and buy Russell from the Lamar Jackson owner, looks like my window to pick him up cheapish is done. Makes me sad
Was just having this conversation tonight during the game: if you out Wilson on the Chiefs and Mahomes on the Seahawks, would we be talking about Wilson as possibly the best QB to ever grace an NFL field? Not saying Mahomes isn’t good. He’s amazing. But how much of his other worldly production is a product of the Andy Reid offense? I think Wilson could probably put up the same stats with better rushing stats in that offense.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Wilson is amazing, but I think the thing that really opens up that KC offense with Mahomes is his insane arm strength. It just widens the field so much which fits perfectly with Reid's system.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Having watched two games this year, man Carroll is doing a disservice to the Hawks. Unleash this guy.
The General
Footballguy
Another MVP caliber season.
The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
M V P
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Because they were/are winning. It works. Pass first offense would lead to more hits and wear on Russ.
He’s just unbelievable though, the fact he’s producing at an elite level with a run first game script - really show how good he is.
They were winning games yes. But haven't advanced past divisional round in 4 years. Think they would have been better off with a less conservative approach.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Similar threads
