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***Russell Wilson Bandwagon***

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Based on this thread you would think that Wilson belonged in the conversation with luck and griffin. The consensus seems to be that his height made his draft stock drop. But drew brees height made him drop as well...to the top of the second round. There is obviously something else at play with Wilson being passed over 74 times during the draft other that his height. What was it?

I think the simple answer is bias due to his height. Here is an old post I made on Wilson:

Basically, what it comes down to with Wilson is that there is essentially no model for him.

Football Outsiders has come up with the Levin Career Forecast for college QBs, and it ranks Wilson higher than any college QB ever. It is clearly a questionable system, but that is still an interesting result. The article points out:

Quarterbacks who are Wilson's height simply don't get drafted in the first three rounds of the draft, period. The FO master database only includes three quarterbacks who are below six feet tall: Seneca Wallace, Joe Hamilton, and Flutie. That's a fourth-round pick, a seventh-round pick, and an 11th round pick from 25 years ago. Even if we go all the way back to 1991, the only quarterbacks taken in the first six rounds at 6-foot-0 or shorter were Vick, Brees, Wallace, Joe Germaine (fourth round, 1999), and Troy Smith (fifth round, 2007).

Among these players, only Vick, Brees, and Wilson were taken before the fourth round of the draft; the others were recognized to be deficient in areas other than just height. Wilson was a better college passer than any of those players, including Vick, Brees, and Flutie (Heisman does not equate to being a better passer).

Furthermore, some of these players did not play in a pro set and/or played in a run heavy offense. Not true for Wilson. And the shorter players among this group likely had lower release points than Wilson does.

On top of that, all of his intangibles are off the chart: leadership, work ethic, character, intelligence, etc. Not that these other players were necessarily bad guys or whatever, but Wilson would score 100 out of 100 on an intangibles assessment, as good as it can possibly get.

I'm not saying Wilson will be a star in the NFL. But I think the problem is that in trying to categorize him, many are failing to recognize that he is nearly unique. I think he is an intriguing dynasty player, and I'm hoping to draft him and stash him for a while.

I think the bolded is really the issue. The community in general chose to lump him into the "too short to succeed" category rather than the "we've never seen a player like this and better think carefully about rushing to judgment" category.

You ask about Brees vs. Wilson. Brees is listed at 6'0". Same for Vick. Wilson is listed as 5'11", but that's rounding... he's more like 5'10 3/4" or something like that. I literally believe it is a difference of about 2 inches in height that made the difference between Wilson being a top 10 pick and being picked where he was.

:popcorn:

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Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?

Here is a list of every(?) NFL quarterback under 5'11"

The only 2 quarterbacks who were successful were Eddie LeBaron (4 Pro Bowls) and Doug Flutie (1 Pro Bowl).

Wilson does have one thing going in his favor, however: he's not that short.

He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.

He's got a high release point, huge hands, good vision, and running ability though, on top great character both on- and off-field.

I legitimately believe he would have gone ahead of Tannehill in the top 10 if he'd been 6'1" or taller. Whether he can succeed at his height, as a rookie, in a Seahawks passing offense that lacks consistent playmakers? I don't know, but I think it's worth it for the Seahawks to find out.

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Is there any historical precedent for a qb under 5'11 succeeding?

Here is a list of every(?) NFL quarterback under 5'11"

The only 2 quarterbacks who were successful were Eddie LeBaron (4 Pro Bowls) and Doug Flutie (1 Pro Bowl).

Wilson does have one thing going in his favor, however: he's not that short.

He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.
Okay, maybe he's a hair under 5'11", but he gets to round up, so he'll never be on the NFL's list of quarterbacks under 5'11". ;)

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Sidney Rice will play this Friday against the chiefs. If Wilson does well with Rice on the field, is the next excuse for Flynn going to be that he didn't have the same luxury? If Rice catches 6 balls for 100 yards, that may be an obvious argument. If Rice catches no balls but draws double defenders, another argument may persist. I feel even if Wilson succeeds, there may be "reasons" why Flynn wasn't able to succeed the same amount; be it Sidney Rice, another week or preseason thus more practices, etc..

I am a Seattle fan that is rooting for Russell Wilson because he is "exciting" but when it boils down to it, I want the QB that will win more games.

- Will ignore "10 million reason" posts. the money was paid, whoever wins games will win games, the overall roster salary will not change.

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Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.

might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.

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Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.

might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.
I offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.

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Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.

might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.
I offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.
WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fan

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He measured 5' 10 5/8" at the Senior Bowl. He is that short.

I've met him and he seemed shorter than that. I would of guessed 5-9

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I offered Lance Kendricks to a rebuilding squad for Wilson in a 1.5 TE ppr MOX super flex (qb can be flexed but not mandatory to play 2) I am the Flynn owner in that league. Turned down

Edited by bicycle_seat_sniffer

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Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.

might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.
I offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.
WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fan
That would have also had me thinking.(I'm the guy spouting off with Wilson above Luck)

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

Is his Mommy also demanding a trade?

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

link?and Zach Miller is back also for Seattle

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

Where have you seen this?I have only seen he took off a practice, but haven't heard he took off the remainder of the week as well as the game.

From Seahawks.com blogMatt Flynn did not practice to rest his arm, Carroll said, but he is expected to play against the Chiefs.

Edited by fridayfrenzy

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Evan Silva @evansilvaAdam Schefter said on SportsCenter #Seahawks QB job is "out of (Matt Flynn's) hands" at this pt. Wilson will start if he plays well Friday.

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Anybody know what kind of price he's going for in dynasty right now ? I want to trade for him.

might be a bit late to get him for anything reasonable... most owners who have him aren't going to budge unless you blow their mind.
I offered Josh Freeman and a 2nd round (top 20) rookie pick and was declined.
WoahI would of taken that and I'm a big Wilson fan
That would have also had me thinking.(I'm the guy spouting off with Wilson above Luck)
meh... sounds like it's a 10 team league (if the 2nd round pick is top 20)... and in that case I think I'd cross my fingers that Wilson could be something special (he likely paid a 4th to get him) than roster Freeman and have him basically be unstartable.

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Evan Silva @evansilvaAdam Schefter said on SportsCenter #Seahawks QB job is "out of (Matt Flynn's) hands" at this pt. Wilson will start if he plays well Friday.

This was posted a couple days ago and the tweet above is not completely accurate. Schefter said he thought the job was out of flynns hands and he thought if Wilson played well he would

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I don't know if I've ever been this excited for a preseason game I wasn't attending. :excited:

Hopefully this thread is up to 12 pages by this time tomorrow!

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Dynasty-league rookie rankings

Posted Aug. 23, 2012 @ 4:08 p.m. ET

By Pat Fitzmaurice

Here are rookie rankings for dynasty leagues from longtime fantasy expert Pat Fitzmaurice, who has distinguished himself with his rankings and analysis over the years. Fitzmaurice will provide fantasy coverage on this site throughout the preseason and regular season, and his rankings will continue into the regular season, when they will be adjusted weekly for matchups, injuries and byes.

Quarterbacks

Andrew Luck, Colts

Robert Griffin III, Redskins

Russell Wilson, Seahawks

Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins

Brandon Weeden, Browns

Nick Foles, Eagles

Ryan Lindley, Cardinals

Kirk Cousins, Redskins

Brock Osweiler, Broncos

B.J. Coleman, Packers

Running backs

Trent Richardson, Browns

Doug Martin, Buccaneers

David Wilson, Giants

Isaiah Pead, Rams

Ronnie Hillman, Broncos

Lamar Miller, Dolphins

Robert Turbin, Seahawks

Vick Ballard, Colts

Bernard Pierce, Ravens

LaMichael James, 49ers

Chris Rainey, Steelers

Bryce Brown, Eagles

Alfred Morris, Redskins

Cyrus Gray, Chiefs

Michael Smith, Buccaneers

Terrance Ganaway, Jets

Daryl Richardson, Rams

Chris Polk, Eagles

Edwin Baker, Chargers

Daniel Herron, Bengals

Wide receivers

Justin Blackmon, Jaguars

Alshon Jeffery, Bears

Michael Floyd, Cardinals

Kendall Wright, Titans

Rueben Randle, Giants

Stephen Hill, Jets

Josh Gordon, Browns

Brian Quick, Rams

LaVon Brazill, Colts

T.Y. Hilton, Colts

Juron Criner, Raiders

Ryan Broyles, Lions

A.J. Jenkins, 49ers

Keshawn Martin, Texans

Chris Givens, Rams

T.J. Graham, Bills

Mohamed Sanu, Bengals

Nick Toon, Saints

Travis Benjamin, Browns

Marvin Jones, Bengals

Marvin McNutt, Eagles

DeVier Posey, Texans

Jarius Wright, Vikings

Devon Wylie, Chiefs

Tommy Streeter, Ravens

Joe Adams, Panthers

B.J. Cunningham, Dolphins

Danny Coale, Cowboys

Tight ends

Coby Fleener, Colts

Dwayne Allen, Colts

Orson Charles, Bengals

Evan Rodriguez, Bears

Michael Egnew, Dolphins

Ladarius Green, Chargers

Adrien Robinson, Giants

Overall

RB Trent Richardson, Browns

QB Andrew Luck, Colts

QB Robert Griffin III, Redskins

RB Doug Martin, Buccaneers

WR Justin Blackmon, Jaguars

RB David Wilson, Giants

WR Alshon Jeffery, Bears

QB Russell Wilson, Seahawks

WR Michael Floyd, Cardinals

WR Kendall Wright, Titans

RB Isaiah Pead, Rams

QB Ryan Tannehill, Dolphins

WR Rueben Randle, Giants

TE Coby Fleener, Colts

RB Ronnie Hillman, Broncos

RB Lamar Miller, Dolphins

WR Stephen Hill, Jets

WR Josh Gordon, Browns

QB Brandon Weeden, Browns

RB Robert Turbin, Seahawks

RB Vick Ballard, Colts

WR Brian Quick, Rams

RB Bernard Pierce, Ravens

RB LaMichael James, 49ers

TE Dwayne Allen, Colts

WR LaVon Brazill, Colts

WR T.Y. Hilton, Colts

QB Nick Foles, Eagles

RB Chris Rainey, Steelers

RB Bryce Brown, Eagles

WR Juron Criner, Raiders

WR Ryan Broyles, Lions

QB Ryan Lindley, Cardinals

RB Alfred Morris, Redskins

WR A.J. Jenkins, 49ers

WR Keshawn Martin, Texans

WR Chris Givens, Rams

WR T.J. Graham, Bills

WR Mohamed Sanu, Bengals

WR Nick Toon, Saints

RB Cyrus Gray, Chiefs

WR Travis Benjamin, Browns

QB Kirk Cousins, Redskins

QB Brock Osweiler, Broncos

RB Michael Smith, Buccaneers

TE Orson Charles, Bengals

Pat Fitzmaurice is a believer!

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As a Wisconsin fan who watched every game last year...I am a true believer. Had it not been for about 4 plays all on the defense, Wisconsin could have been undefeated last year.

Here is hoping that he will be a starter...it would be a great story!

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

That's weak sauce.

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He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.

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He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.

He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.

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Fwiw, Matt Flynn isn't practicing this week now and says he has a tired arm and is now not playing Friday.

That's weak sauce.
:goodposting:

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He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.

You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.

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Seahawks dynasty begins today.

I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?
Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.

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If both Seahawks quarterbacks play well

By Mike Sando | ESPN.com

Bryan from Okanogan, Wash., wonders which quarterback the Seattle Seahawks will start in Week 1 if the top two candidates play well against Kansas City on Friday night.

What happens if Russell Wilson looks great (against a depleted secondary but overall strong defense) but then Matt Flynn comes in and looks great also (maybe one series against the varsity and the rest against the JV."

Sando: Not everyone appreciates these hypothetical scenarios, but with apologies to our pal Brian, I would lean toward Pete Carroll buying additional time to decide in that case.

The Seahawks would ideally favor Flynn in the short term and Wilson in the long term at that point. They could then get their money's worth from both. I'm just not sure Carroll will want to wait for the long term if Wilson appears as good or better right now, with a higher ceiling in the future.

The comfortable move would be to play Flynn now. If he fails, turn to Wilson at some point.

If you play Wilson right away and Wilson plays like a rookie, everyone loses. That would become a setback for Wilson. Flynn, having been benched and deprived of reps, might have a harder time succeeding than if he went into the season as the starter. And the team would be worse off in that case.

There's risk in upsetting the natural order of things. If the Seahawks are going to play Wilson right away, the decision would ideally be a clear-cut one. I don't think it'll be clear cut if both quarterbacks play well Friday night.

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Seahawks dynasty begins today.

I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?
Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.
Agreed. I'm excited, although I'm also cautiously optimistic about this. I either want Wilson to *destroy* KC and start week 1, or to sit on the bench a year and learn. I don't want it to be up and down and for him to start week 1.

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My vote?

Start Flynn

Bench him at the half week 3 while you are getting trounced by the Packers on monday night football. Give the fans something to cheer about.

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He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.

You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.
I never said that, the only difference between him and RG3 is 3 inches of height. He's a great passer along with being mobile, that's great for fantasy. I mentioned Tebow because the situation is similar if you consider his flaw(height not mechanics) a gamble long-term then why not sell high?

He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.

Flynn is a fraud, Wilson will start one way or another this year.

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Seahawks dynasty begins today.

I bet the homers are giddyNeon unis also?
Sure. Its nice to have something to be giddy about. A drastically improved roster from three years ago and the hope of a young quarterback. I think Seattle fans have the right be excited for the coming season. Why not?I believe Seattle is wearing the wolf grey pants and white tops today. My guess is the neon uniforms are history.
That was a gigantic abortion of a game. Not only were the uniforms the worst thing ever seen in American sports, the numbers and letters were white and couldn't be read very easily if at all on TV. There were also 2 horrendous calls that gave Chicago 2 TDs. One was a Thomas Jones fumble that seemed exceptionally clear that the play was called correctly but was still overturned and the other was a TD pass where the LT gave a huge jerk before the snap with no flag. Then dingdong supreme Jim Moron Jr throws Mare under the bus which was petty, stupid, unneccesary and showed how little Moron knows about coaching. Only two good things came out of that game, one those jerseys will never be seen again and Mare didn't miss another kick. Not sure I like this wolf grey ####. Give us some time to get used to the new uniforms before throwing in alternates! I just realized they're not as bad as I thought they'd b, especially with them wearing blue pants on the road (the ONLY thing Moron did right while coach). Now they're ####### up that already fragile acceptance...

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He looks better than Cassell so far. Not bad for a rookie.

TD to Winslow-16-0.

Edited by cr8f

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If this is actually Russell Wilson's starter audition, I think he has won the job. The only thing stopping him from taking it would be fear of throwing him in too soon or politics.

From what I see, this is a guy that should be an nfl starter.

I don't really need another backup behind Ryan (and locker), but I can't let someone else in my league have this guy. He's on my roster until Flynn wins the job (or until my ncsu grad friend offers me something stupid)

Edited by solorca

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We sure loved him in Wisconsin last year-if 4" taller he may have been a top 10 pick.

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Got a couple weeks to decide yet, but whether Wilson wins the starting job or not, I'm cutting Flynn and rollin' with Wilson to be my backup to Rodgers in one of my dynasty leagues. Limited roster size, will be tough to keep both. Wilson has the skills to be very, very good.

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A little surprised there isn't more activity here. He has played very well so far tonight.

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If this is actually Russell Wilson's starter audition, I think he has won the job. The only thing stopping him from taking it would be fear of throwing him in too soon or politics. From what I see, this is a guy that should be an nfl starter.I don't really need another backup behind Ryan (and locker), but I can't let someone else in my league have this guy. He's on my roster until Flynn wins the job (or until my ncsu grad friend offers me something stupid)

Carroll has balls of ####### steel

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He more Doug Flutie than Drew Brees, Brees is bigger and taller. I don't think his value will be higher than it is now that he's named the starter. I don't want to call him Tebow, because Wilson is in a class of his own from a production standpoint, but I'm sure people wish that they traded Tebow in Dynasty leagues while he was hot. I was a Troy Smith and Seneca Wallace guy from playing video games, these guy just don't succeed without the right measurable. From watching the preseason if I was set at starting qb and can wait I'd go crazy for Nick Foles instead.

You honestly haven't seen Russell Wilson play much, he's a very good passer.
I never said that, the only difference between him and RG3 is 3 inches of height. He's a great passer along with being mobile, that's great for fantasy. I mentioned Tebow because the situation is similar if you consider his flaw(height not mechanics) a gamble long-term then why not sell high?

He is starting the preseason game. Carroll has not named a starter for the regular season yet.

Flynn is a fraud, Wilson will start one way or another this year.
This is what gets me. What ha Flynn done to be a "fraud?". He has played well every time he has been on the field. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game. Both can be good players.

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