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Terrell Suggs - Torn Achilles (1 Viewer)

Don Quixote

Footballguy
Adam Schefter ‏ @AdamSchefter

Blow to Baltimore: Ravens LB Terrell Suggs tore his Achilles playing basketball.

 
Between losing guys like Mathis to LB and an injury like this my DE spot is getting rteally thin. It's so tough these days keeping a reliable DE position with swaps to OLB and injuries.

 
If you'll pardon the formatting, I'm cross-posting my Twitter thoughts.

(ETA: Now much more back and forth on my Twitter timeline (linked in my sig) if you're interested.)

It'll be interesting to see how the Ravens align now. I'd bet on Paul Kruger getting bulk of Rover snaps. Big chance for Sergio Kindle, too.

Courtney Upshaw is a talented player, but he's much closer to Jarret Johnson than Terrell Suggs.

Ravens personnel looks more favorable to 3-4 looks than 4-3. Suggs is what made that team multiple. Huge loss.

Note: Pass rushers w/ double digit sack seasons aft Achilles tear: Julian Peterson, Greg Ellis, Derrick Burgess. Not career-ender for Suggs

Andre Carter/Matt Roth being suggested for BAL. Decent talents but won't necessarily solve playbook issues.

Carter has talent, never been comfortable in 3-4. Could be nickel rusher or morph to more base 4-3. Not best fit w/ Kruger/Kindle/Upshaw.

Never been a big fan of Roth. If I'm the Ravens, I'd much rather roll with Kruger and Upshaw and let them grow into the defense.

Could also conceivably run w/ Pernell McPhee LDE and Kruger RDE, use Upshaw as situational player. McClain/Lewis/Ellerbee at backer.

That front would limit Sergio Kindle exposure, give Upshaw time to grow and rely heavily on Lewis as the clear centerpiece of the defense.

 
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This is an update on PFT

UPDATE 10:13 a.m. ET: “We are in contact with Terrell,” the Ravens said in a statement. “He will see a specialist early next week, and we’ll know more at that time.”

 
Jene, my first thought was them getting Osi and moving back to more of a 4-3 look.

Osi-Ngata-Cody-McPhee

Mclain-Lewis-Upshaw/Kruger

I only say this because they have 3 real solid CB's (Webb/Smith/Williams) that would make it easier IMHO.

People don't understand how good Suggs was in coverage and run support. You just can't get an OLB like that off the street. He was probably the most complete OLB in the league.

 
Or trade for Dwight Freeney if only pass rush was the issue. Unfortunately Suggs value was versatility.

What's Bart Scott up to these days? Adalius Thomas?

 
"Cometh the hour, cometh the man"...Lots of players in line to assume those snaps. Will be very interesting to see who seizes this opportunity. :popcorn:

 
Comps I think are reasonable for discussion purposes:

Julian Peterson: injury early season 2004, only three sacks in 2005, 19.5 sacks in 2006/2007 in age 28/29 seasons.

Greg Ellis: injury in mid-season 2006, 27 sacks in 2007-2009 in age 32/33/34 seasons.

Derrick Burgess: injury in 2003, only three sacks in 2004. Then 35.5 sacks in age 27/28/29 seasons.

 
Jene, if it's only a partial tear is that significantly better than a full tear? Thinking in terms of recovery time and likelihood of returning to his pre-injury form.

 
Jene, if it's only a partial tear is that significantly better than a full tear? Thinking in terms of recovery time and likelihood of returning to his pre-injury form.
A partial tear carries at least the same risk of long-term re-injury and complications, but the recovery time (mostly due to the lack of reconstructive surgery) and return to play estimates would be much better.
 
Ok so they lost a great player and the luxury of swapping your formation without at least one sub. I like Jene's take but I can't help but wonder what Upshaw would do if put right into the game. He's got the physical tools and who better to lead than Lewis?

 
With their defense aging and Joe Flacco's contract expiring, the Ravens are in "win now" mode, but they suffered a tremendous offseason blow on Thursday as Terrell Suggs partially tore his Achilles tendon while playing basketball.

The news began circulating early Thursday, according to multiple reports on Twitter, and Suggs confirmed the partial tear via text to Aaron Wilson of the Cook County Times.

"We do a conditioning test every year, and I was practicing it," Suggs said in a text to Wilson. "I went to stop and turn and I thought I sprained it. Went to doc and said it's a partial tear."

Suggs injury is a huge, huge, huge blow to the Ravens -- Suggs was the premiere defensive player on a dominant defensive unit last year. And according to Wilson, Suggs won't be able to play during the 2012 season. However, according to Schefter, Suggs believes he can return by October, which would be a stunningly fast recovery from such an injury.

That could be part of a Ravens PR spin though: a league sources tell CBSSports.com's Mike Freeman that while the Ravens are remaining publicly hopeful, behind closed doors they're not counting on having him for the 2012 season.

“We are in contact with Terrell," the Ravens said in a statement from the team. "He will see a specialist early next week, and we'll know more at that time.”

Suggs was more enthusiastic in texting with Wilson, though.

"Absolutely," Suggs said when asked if he'd play in 2012. "Middle to end of October. Definitely beginning of November."

Wow, he sounds confident

 
i know they have 2 surefire HOF'ers on that defense but the 2 most important players on that D are Ngata and Suggs........what a catastrophic blow. If Suggs isn't directly making the play the rest he seems to always influence. in terms of disruption he may be the best in the biz

 
Between losing guys like Mathis to LB and an injury like this my DE spot is getting rteally thin. It's so tough these days keeping a reliable DE position with swaps to OLB and injuries.
Is it absolutely true that MFL will change his designation? When will we know this?
 
Between losing guys like Mathis to LB and an injury like this my DE spot is getting rteally thin. It's so tough these days keeping a reliable DE position with swaps to OLB and injuries.
Is it absolutely true that MFL will change his designation? When will we know this?
This is what I would suspect at this time. I don't think they usually update positions until June.
 
Can someone explain why on MFL that Suggs is listed as a DE? Wouldnt therefore Updhaw also be listed as a DE rather than a LB?

 
'Nate Blough said:
Can someone explain why on MFL that Suggs is listed as a DE? Wouldnt therefore Updhaw also be listed as a DE rather than a LB?
Suggs designation as DE is exactly why I am asking about Mathis.
 
'Nate Blough said:
Can someone explain why on MFL that Suggs is listed as a DE? Wouldnt therefore Updhaw also be listed as a DE rather than a LB?
because people would revolt if they moved him.I think he plays more DE than OLB but he always goes to the Pro Bowl as a LB for some reason.
 
'Nate Blough said:
Can someone explain why on MFL that Suggs is listed as a DE? Wouldnt therefore Updhaw also be listed as a DE rather than a LB?
because people would revolt if they moved him.I think he plays more DE than OLB but he always goes to the Pro Bowl as a LB for some reason.
And a few years back when he was franchised, he won his argument that he's more a DE than an OLB (cause the franchise amount was higher).
 
'Nate Blough said:
Can someone explain why on MFL that Suggs is listed as a DE? Wouldnt therefore Updhaw also be listed as a DE rather than a LB?
because people would revolt if they moved him.I think he plays more DE than OLB but he always goes to the Pro Bowl as a LB for some reason.
A couple of seasons ago, Suggs, with his nickel snaps included was about 60-40 (ish) DE > LB. According to numbers tweeted by PFF today, it was much closer to 50-50 last year.Ironically, Norton and Borbely had been talking about how to handle Suggs/Freeney/Mathis etal over the past week as we started to finalize rankings and projections. Suggs was getting listed in fewer and fewer places as a DE over the past 12 months and it's very likely that the Colts' depth chart would read differently than the Ravens' chart for the same scheme. Still trying to decide how to proceed there, but unfortunately Suggs' injury may take away the most ambiguous case for 2012.
 
So if you had to bet on 1 guy to have significant fantasy impact due to Suggs injury, who would it be? Upshaw, Kruger, Kindle? I know all three will have increased value, but which one is the one to own.

 
The difference between DE/LB designation in regards to Pro-Bowl and League classifications are based on snaps at position. It's a bit more complicated with Suggs because it lists him where he is when the snap happens. So he could lineup at LBer when the huddle breaks, but move up to the line when the snap happens, making him a DE for calculations, then either drop off into coverage or rush the passer. I believe this is how they got him classified as an end despite where he "starts," as listed in gamebook ect.

 
According to numbers tweeted by PFF today, it was much closer to 50-50 last year.
Where did they say that? All I see is that they said the Ravens would have to play 3-4 more cause they lost Suggs...which means Suggs was the reason they were in 4-3 alignments more. Not only that, in their top 100 player rankings they stated that he topped their list at 4-3 DEs. In 2010 he played 77% of his snaps at DE and I watched a lot of Ravens games this year and it seems like it increased to 80% or more. A DE dropping back into coverage, which he didn't even do that often, doesn't make him a LB. The only reason he got the DE/LB tag was because they wanted to pay him less money. That doesn't change the fact that he's a DE.
 
According to numbers tweeted by PFF today, it was much closer to 50-50 last year.
Where did they say that? All I see is that they said the Ravens would have to play 3-4 more cause they lost Suggs...which means Suggs was the reason they were in 4-3 alignments more. Not only that, in their top 100 player rankings they stated that he topped their list at 4-3 DEs. In 2010 he played 77% of his snaps at DE and I watched a lot of Ravens games this year and it seems like it increased to 80% or more. A DE dropping back into coverage, which he didn't even do that often, doesn't make him a LB. The only reason he got the DE/LB tag was because they wanted to pay him less money. That doesn't change the fact that he's a DE.
Link
Terrell Suggs played just under 1,100 snaps for the Ravens last season - 52% as a linebacker, 48% as an end.
It's a little surprising to me, too. That's not exactly what's indicated elsewhere in their own numbers last year and I don't remember seeing Suggs in a two point stance that often.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/41893/comparing-injuries-of-merriman-suggs

Comparing injuries of Merriman, Suggs

May, 3, 2012

By James Walker | ESPN.com

There are several similarities between the recent injuries to Buffalo Bills outside linebacker Shawne Merriman and Baltimore Ravens Pro Bowler Terrell Suggs. Now, both are coming off Achilles injuries heading into next season.

Here are some thoughts on the two pass-rushers:

If Merriman's injury is an indication, Suggs should be concerned. Merriman used to be a dominant pass-rusher. But Merriman has clearly lost a step or two after his Achilles troubles, and a quick first step is vital for any pass-rusher. Merriman went from an explosive edge rusher with a burst to just an effort pass-rusher who was much easier to block. Suggs has a great burst with a variety of nimble moves, and he needs to rehab vigorously to maintain it.

Merriman is two years younger than Suggs, which also can be a concern for the Baltimore star. Merriman, 27, has been unable to get back to form despite being in his prime years. Suggs, 29, suffered his Achilles injuries two years older, which is significant in football years. Suggs is a great player in his prime. He's also the reigning NFL Defensive Player of the Year. But Suggs will be 30 in October.

One difference that is clear is Suggs will have his surgery right away. Merriman struggled with his Achilles and tried to play through it.

The injury put Merriman on injured reserve in back-to-back seasons before he finally decided to have corrective surgery this year. Suggs wisely is getting his surgery immediately and can start a full rehab process. He hopes to return in the second half of the 2012 season at 100 percent.

I covered Suggs for several years in the AFC North, and he is a flat out beast. He was one of the most dominant and all-around stout defensive players I've ever covered. It's hard to imagine a physical freak like Suggs not being a great player when he returns. But this is a worrisome injury for an elite pass-rusher, and one he needs to be careful not to rush.
not sure Merriman is a great comparison, but he really hasn't been the same since his injury.
 
The Merriman comparison is pertinent, but Walker left out the PCL/LCL injury Merriman had in 2008, which had already turned him into a marginal pass rusher (4 sacks in 14 games in 2009) before his Achilles' troubles.

 
According to numbers tweeted by PFF today, it was much closer to 50-50 last year.
Where did they say that? All I see is that they said the Ravens would have to play 3-4 more cause they lost Suggs...which means Suggs was the reason they were in 4-3 alignments more. Not only that, in their top 100 player rankings they stated that he topped their list at 4-3 DEs. In 2010 he played 77% of his snaps at DE and I watched a lot of Ravens games this year and it seems like it increased to 80% or more. A DE dropping back into coverage, which he didn't even do that often, doesn't make him a LB. The only reason he got the DE/LB tag was because they wanted to pay him less money. That doesn't change the fact that he's a DE.
Link
Terrell Suggs played just under 1,100 snaps for the Ravens last season - 52% as a linebacker, 48% as an end.
It's a little surprising to me, too. That's not exactly what's indicated elsewhere in their own numbers last year and I don't remember seeing Suggs in a two point stance that often.
For some reason I don't believe this...that's exactly 100%, but Suggs lines up as a DB on rare occasions too...unless it was a very miniscule amount this season and disappeared after rounding. A 30% drop in snaps at DE seems weird to me. I wonder if they changed the game viewer/stat collector for the Ravens on PFF. Considering he had more snaps at LB, shouldn't he be ranked by them as a 4-3 LB then?
 
The Merriman comparison is pertinent, but Walker left out the PCL/LCL injury Merriman had in 2008, which had already turned him into a marginal pass rusher (4 sacks in 14 games in 2009) before his Achilles' troubles.
And the coming off the juice. I would hesitate to compare these two. I'm not aware of Suggs ever testing positive for PED.
 
Trade speculation that would work for both teams.

Ravens should jump at chance to get Umenyiora

With Defensive Player of the Year Terrell Suggs sidelined indefinitely, the Baltimore Ravens' Super Bowl chances just took a hit -- unless, of course, they somehow find the right guy to replace him.

But they can, and I know how: By making a phone call.

Yep, if I were general manager Ozzie Newsome I'd be on speed dial with the New York Giants' Jerry Reese, making him an offer he couldn't refuse for disgruntled defensive end Osi Umenyiora. Umenyiora is in the last year of his contract, and he doesn't appear to have a future with the Giants beyond this season.

... Osi Umenyiora is not in the Giants' long-term future.

That's not exactly a revelation. The guy was replaced in the starting lineup last season by Jason Pierre-Paul who, it just so happened, emerged as one of the league's most talented, most disruptive and most productive defensive performers.

JPP is 23 and in his third season; Umenyiora turns 31 this year and is in his tenth season. That could make Umenyiora expendable, and if I'm Newsome I find out.

I mean, he just lost his best defensive player -- presumably for the entire season -- and while I know the Ravens are lining up candidates to replace him, including Paul Kruger, Sergio Kindle and rookie Courtney Upshaw, tell me which of them rushes the passer like Umenyiora.

I'll spare you the trouble: None.

In his last 57 games, Umenyiora has 40.5 sacks. He had 14.5 one season, 13 in another, and six sacks in one game. His average of .71 sacks per game from 2007-11 is tied for fifth best in the NFL with Philadelphia's Trent Cole and Denver's Elvis Dumvervil and ranks behind only DeMarcus Ware, Jared Allen, Mario Williams and James Harrison.

But that's not all: In 2010 he set a league record with 10 forced fumbles and twice in his career has four recoveries. I think you get the idea: Umeyiora knows how to get to the passer, which was Suggs' strength, and he knows how to get to the football.

So go after him, Baltimore. Granted, the Ravens play a 3-4, but Umeyiora would be a stand-up linebacker who does what Suggs does -- namely, rush the quarterback. He can do that out of a three-point stance, or he can do it upright. It doesn't matter. The results are the same. Only where he does it as a situational guy with the Giants, he could be a starter with Baltimore -- provided, of course, the Giants are interested in dealing.

"All of our options are always open," Reese said.

If I'm Newsome, I find out what that means, and I find out now.

The Ravens inquired last season when Umeyiora was stewing, and nothing worked out ... with them or anyone else, and one reason was compensation. The Giants wanted a first-round pick. One year later, the price can only go down, basically because everyone knows Umenyiora is unhappy and isn't going back to Big Blue in 2013.

Trust me, the Giants know, too. But they also know they can keep him around another year at a relatively cheap price ($3.975 million) and call on him when the down and distance demand it.

But why would they? Pierre-Paul has supplanted him. Umenyiora is miserable and could be a distraction waiting to happen. The Giants don't seem interested in re-signing him, and he doesn't seem interested in re-signing with them. Plus, New York could gain something of value for him now instead of having him walk in a year.

... Newsome should be on the phone. Tell the Giants why peddling Umenyiora could be addition by subtraction and make them motivated sellers. Not only would they gain a draft pick for an unhappy camper who's a short-timer anyway; they'd be rid of a potential headache.

And the Ravens? They'd find what they need. They'd find an ideal replacement for Terrell Suggs.
Hadn't heard Osi mentioned to the Ravens.Thought it was interesting enough speculation to pass along.

 
Just saw scroll on ESPN that Suggs has been placed on PUP eligible to come back for week 7. Small print (my eyes are getting old far faster than me), but I thought it said he thought he could return by the halfway point. Any guesses what the chances are of this happening and how well could he play after that injury?

 
Rotoworld

ESPN's Adam Schefter reports that Terrell Suggs' "upper arm injury" is a torn biceps.Schefter adds that Suggs is expected to miss some time, but it is not believed to be a season-ending injury at this point. Suggs tweeted on Monday that he is going to get a second opinion on the injury, so we should know more by Tuesday or Wednesday. For what it's worth, Dolphins LB Karlos Dansby is currently playing through a torn biceps, so that's the good news. The severity of the tear will determine how much time Suggs misses. Dec 3 - 9:24 PM
 
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