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gianmarco

Is it ever ok to use a belt to discipline your child?

Child discipline  

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I would bet there's a direct inverse correlation between the amount of time someone physically disciplines their child and that person's IQ.

Edited by James Daulton
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On 04/10/2013 at 9:34 AM, The_Man said:

Before I had kids, I thought that I would of course occasionally spank them in the course of administering discipline. But in the reality of being a parent, I've come to find the idea almost monstrous. And I've also come to find that punishment is not synonymous with administering discipline and can often actually be counter to helping my kids achieve the modified behavior that I'm after.

If you believe hitting your kid teaches them respect for your authority and convinces them that you are right, fine. I think it teaches them to fear you and to hide their mistakes. I've taught my kids that everyone makes mistakes, and what matters is not that you've made a mistake but how you've dealt with it -- by making any needed restitution and learning not to do it again. Hell, yes it was a ton more work than just swatting them on the butt when they did something wrong, but that work is what I signed up for when I had kids.

Last month, my son (now 15) was putting on his backpack at school and it brushed against the fire alarm. Five or 10 seconds later the fire alarm for the whole school went off and everyone had to leave the building. Nobody else saw it, but he thought maybe he had set it off -- so he went and found his teacher and together they went to the assistant principal. Turned out the alarm had been set off in another part of the building. But when I found out about it, it was a great moment in parenting for me -- when my son felt like he had made a mistake, he could own up to it and accept the responsibility rather than live in fear of punishment.

Update: my teenage son is now a high school senior, captain of two varsity sports, top of his class, and going to a great school next year.

Pretty disciplined. Still never been hit by a parent, teacher or coach.

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1 hour ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Like the count up or count down parents 1......2......3

The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents.  Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.

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35 minutes ago, The_Man said:

Update: my teenage son is now a high school senior, captain of two varsity sports, top of his class, and going to a great school next year.

Pretty disciplined. Still never been hit by a parent, teacher or coach.

Good for you....Provide update after his time in college...

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4 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Good for you....Provide update after his time in college...

What does that even mean? You going to college with your kids so you can spank them when they stay out too late?

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1 minute ago, MattFancy said:

What does that even mean? You going to college with your kids so you can spank them when they stay out too late?

Wow...It means it sounds like he raised a nice young man who is about to go off on his own and I hope he continues to be a good solid respectful person when all the decisions he makes are his own.

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19 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Wow...It means it sounds like he raised a nice young man who is about to go off on his own and I hope he continues to be a good solid respectful person when all the decisions he makes are his own.

Thanks for the nice words. I will keep you posted -- not too worried, to be honest. He's been making the majority of his own decisions for most of his senior year, I feel. But you never know what will happen.

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2 hours ago, Ditka Butkus said:

America is not great anymore because we don't discipline our children. It's the teachers fault, its the police fault, it is their bosses fault etc. All kids need an attitude adjustment from time to time...I can't tell you how many coaches knocked me around growing up...Authority figures were to be respected...

First, an intelligent, non-lazy parent can discipline without physical force.

Second, I was 'knocked around' and taught to respect authority figures and now I have extreme anger towards most of them.

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents.  Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.

:lmao:

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2 hours ago, MattFancy said:

You can instill fear in someone without being physical

not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wild

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1 hour ago, gianmarco said:

The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents.  Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.

Yep.  I always used the count down method.  The kids knew it ended at zero, and if zero were reached there would be punishment.  That could be a time-out, a corner (yes, made my kids stand in a corner), some type of restriction, or spanking.

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2 hours ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Have you raised any male teenagers and their friends?

Yes, three in two households.  None have ever been hit.  None have ever been in a lick of trouble and are respectful to adults and their peers.  

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1 minute ago, BassNBrew said:

Yes, three in two households.  None have ever been hit.  None have ever been in a lick of trouble and are respectful to adults and their peers.  

Congrats on raising perfect children. 3 nonetheless! 

Edited by fantasycurse42

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Not a shtick response based on my user name (other than use of the term "old man")...

Pretty interesting discussion to read through. I was more than knocked around as a kid - pretty much had the #### kicked out of me a few times a week from the age of 6 to 16 or so. Although, I've never really discussed it with anyone in depth to know if it was a normal level of violence for dads that acted that way or way over the line. I realize we're talking about using a belt here and not this necessarily. While I turned out okay as an adult, being a kid pretty much sucked for me always being afraid of getting my ### kicked for just about any reason that set the old man off. I, in turn, see a lot of the way my old man acted in myself with my temper and decided a few years ago I was not going to have children. I'm not sure if childhood played a role in that, but I'm sure it does on some level.   I also, in my adult years have a pretty poor relationship with my old man due to harboring so much resentment even though he desperately wants to grow the relationship. Hopefully I get to a spot where I can let it go one day.

I'm probably an extreme example, but don't take a belt to a kid, ever, imo. I never connected on a real level with my father because I spent all my time being afraid of him. :shrug:

Edited by John Bender
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25 minutes ago, BustedKnuckles said:

not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wild

So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?

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2 hours ago, BustedKnuckles said:

not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wild

Most don't want to admit that we are just animals...

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2 hours ago, MattFancy said:

So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?

I hope Busted doesn't mind if I provide an answer...You try and reason with them and the ones that don't get it, get a swift kick in the ###...eventually they wake up.

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2 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Most don't want to admit that we are just animals...

Speak for yourself bub.

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2 hours ago, John Bender said:

Not a shtick response based on my user name (other than use of the term "old man")...

Pretty interesting discussion to read through. I was more than knocked around as a kid - pretty much had the #### kicked out of me a few times a week from the age of 6 to 16 or so. Although, I've never really discussed it with anyone in depth to know if it was a normal level of violence for dads that acted that way or way over the line. I realize we're talking about using a belt here and not this necessarily. While I turned out okay as an adult, being a kid pretty much sucked for me always being afraid of getting my ### kicked for just about any reason that set the old man off. I, in turn, see a lot of the way my old man acted in myself with my temper and decided a few years ago I was not going to have children. I'm not sure if childhood played a role in that, but I'm sure it does on some level.   I also, in my adult years have a pretty poor relationship with my old man due to harboring so much resentment even though he desperately wants to grow the relationship. Hopefully I get to a spot where I can let it go one day.

I'm probably an extreme example, but don't take a belt to a kid, ever, imo. I never connected on a real level with my father because I spent all my time being afraid of him. :shrug:

Never was afraid of my old man in the sense that he was just out of the blue going to kick my ###... But I learned early that you respect your elders, you respect authority, you can question but you don't talk back and you certainly never ever disrespect your mother... In the beginning it took a few times to figure this out (spanking/kick in the ### etc.) eventually all it took was a look and I knew I was out of line...Truthfully my mother was more of a badass than my father..She was a stay at home mom and had three teenage boys she had to keep in line...I wonder if todays parents are reluctant to spank because most don't stay at home, daycare raises a lot of children....Mom and dad have guilt feelings of not spending as much time with their kids....(Little Jimmy won't like me if I spank him)

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5 hours ago, BustedKnuckles said:

with fear comes respect....i dare someone to walk into a hells angel gathering and start acting disrespectful...it would never happen ...because you know what WOULD happen...so your most basic instinct tells you ''behave or else''...when you realize what respect feels like then you learn how to apply it in all aspects of your life without fear as a motivator....i can tell you if you walk into a hells angels gathering and show respect you will get it back in return...and when you feel how nice it is to both give and receive respect consider lesson learned. (hells angels just an example ...point is when your ### is on the line you dont act like a douch...thats called respect)

Ahhh, so this is the alias Robbie Cooper is using.  Makes sense.

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A belt is for ####### - I actually use baseball bat. When he really pisses me off, I make him stand on window ledge, we're about 50 feet up, so that usually scares him straight. My two month old is a little young for these tactics, so he still gets the belt, sometimes a spoon.

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7 minutes ago, Ditka Butkus said:

Never was afraid of my old man in the sense that he was just out of the blue going to kick my ###... But I learned early that you respect your elders, you respect authority, you can question but you don't talk back and you certainly never ever disrespect your mother... In the beginning it took a few times to figure this out (spanking/kick in the ### etc.) eventually all it took was a look and I knew I was out of line...Truthfully my mother was more of a badass than my father..She was a stay at home mom and had three teenage boys she had to keep in line...I wonder if todays parents are reluctant to spank because most don't stay at home, daycare raises a lot of children....Mom and dad have guilt feelings of not spending as much time with their kids....(Little Jimmy won't like me if I spank him)

Or, day care will report even the tiniest hint of abuse at home.  

Unpack this "kick in the ###" you keep repeating.  How does that work?  Your daughter or son lips off to you and you wind up and kick them in the fanny like Jan Stenerud?  I'm honestly trying to understand your discipline routine here.  

 

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Just now, General Malaise said:

Or, day care will report even the tiniest hint of abuse at home.  

Unpack this "kick in the ###" you keep repeating.  How does that work?  Your daughter or son lips off to you and you wind up and kick them in the fanny like Jan Stenerud?  I'm honestly trying to understand your discipline routine here.  

 

Figure of speech...I have two grown children and two teenagers and everyone of them have been spanked (open hand swat on the ###). None of them had to be spanked after the age of seven or eight. I'll give you an example,  My youngest daughter was about 3 or 4 and used to bite others, tried to talk with her, put her in timeout, still bit.. One day the two girls were in the bathtub...blood curdling scream, wife runs in the youngest had bit her sister...wife had had enough, snatched up the youngest and swatted her three times on her naked ###..Kid never bit another again..By the way, same kid is our sweetest now.

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2 hours ago, John Bender said:

Not a shtick response based on my user name (other than use of the term "old man")...

Pretty interesting discussion to read through. I was more than knocked around as a kid - pretty much had the #### kicked out of me a few times a week from the age of 6 to 16 or so. Although, I've never really discussed it with anyone in depth to know if it was a normal level of violence for dads that acted that way or way over the line. I realize we're talking about using a belt here and not this necessarily. While I turned out okay as an adult, being a kid pretty much sucked for me always being afraid of getting my ### kicked for just about any reason that set the old man off. I, in turn, see a lot of the way my old man acted in myself with my temper and decided a few years ago I was not going to have children. I'm not sure if childhood played a role in that, but I'm sure it does on some level.   I also, in my adult years have a pretty poor relationship with my old man due to harboring so much resentment even though he desperately wants to grow the relationship. Hopefully I get to a spot where I can let it go one day.

I'm probably an extreme example, but don't take a belt to a kid, ever, imo. I never connected on a real level with my father because I spent all my time being afraid of him. :shrug:

No doubt that what you grew up with plays a big role in the decisions you've made as an adult.

Both my mom and dad are alcoholics.  Dad never hit me (spanked me once for getting in trouble at school) but mom would hit me with whatever was handy.  Nowhere near what you went through but still #### you shouldn't do to a child.  She's still a drunk and I'm sure feels guilty and wants to build our relationship but I only see her now out of a sense of obligation and not love.

There's obviously a lot of both of them in me so I really have to watch myself.  I drink too much but have never laid a hand on my wife and will never touch my son out of anger.  I know it sounds like it, but I'm not saying "look at me and how great I am for not beating my wife!" just saying that you can take that example your parents set for you, recognize it and break that cycle.

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The decision to spank should, I think, depend on the parents and the environment they are raising children. My wife and I are both very patient people, we live in a safe town and we model respect for ourselves and others. We are thoughtful and good communicators and I don't think spanking will be necessary for us. 

If you're a Hell's Angel though, maybe more of the 'do as I say not as I do' type and you're raising your kid in a dangerous environment in might be the right choice to give lil Chains a whoopin when he's digging through your pillpack. 

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This is truly how I see the issue. Spanking shows impressionable young kids that bigger, stronger people - even the bigger, stronger people they love and trust more than anyone else in the world - might hurt them when they get angry. And that this infliction of pain on those smaller and weaker than you is a normal and accepted part of human interaction.

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6 hours ago, MattFancy said:

So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?

the play is assert authority and or the danger of the possibility of severe consequences to certain actions

 

i never said dont threaten ....and honestly im not even speaking about little kids ...mostly teens ...if a teen is acting out its because he or she have little or no respect because they fear nothing...so many laws and crap in place they know all they have to do is go cry to a cops and the parent gets in trouble ...its outa control

 

 

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Absolutely. If you mouth off in the real world somebody is going to knock your teeth out eventually. If my kid were to ever mouth off to me you better believe they'd have the belt coming their well. The trick is getting to the point where you don't ever even need to hit them. Just start going for the belt and when they start tearing up and running away, you know you've won. That's what made America great back in the day. Nowadays we're just a bunch of granola eating girly men. It's time to be great again.

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43 minutes ago, proninja said:

Having your kids knuckle under to you because they're scared you will hit them isn't going to teach them how to show respect to people they're not afraid of. You know that, right? 

yes ...lets reason with kids who are not listening to anything you say because they are so interested in behaving ...if you have good kids to begin with i guess none of this is important...but ive seen some pretty out of control and disrespectful kids ...and they dont care what you have to say 

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Let me preface this by saying I am not a parent and likely never will be.

I am curious as to the power dynamic difference between #neverspank and #whoopumgood. Specifically I am wondering about what causes children to obey time-outs and such. What if a parent instructs a child to stand in the corner and the child refuses, no matter what is said? At some point the parent will physically make the child obey, right?

I guess my point is that intuitively, I'm not sure that a lack of spanking necessarily avoids the "might makes right"/"bigger is better" lesson. Even for a mostly well-behaved child, possibly the adherence to the time-outs or what have you is due to its recognition that at some point force would be applied.

 

 

 

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I posted in this thread before but have no idea what I posted.  I got hit with a belt.  I dont remember how many times, 5 I am guessing.  It wasnt abuse.  When I was 13 dad hit me 3 times with the belt and I laughed at him, he hit me 3 more times and I cried.  This thread made me think of if, otherwise means nothing.   I was cocky, it was back in the day, when I did something bad and mom said wait til dad gets home.  He didnt want to do it, but it was his job.  He took no pleasure and I deserved it.  Would a good talking too worked?  Who knows, but my mom probably tried that, fyi I was a pretty good kid.

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2 minutes ago, TakiToki said:

Let me preface this by saying I am not a parent and likely never will be.

I am curious as to the power dynamic difference between #neverspank and #whoopumgood. Specifically I am wondering about what causes children to obey time-outs and such. What if a parent instructs a child to stand in the corner and the child refuses, no matter what is said? At some point the parent will physically make the child obey, right?

I guess my point is that intuitively, I'm not sure that a lack of spanking necessarily avoids the "might makes right"/"bigger is better" lesson. Even for a mostly well-behaved child, possibly the adherence to the time-outs or what have you is due to its recognition that at some point force would be applied.

 

 

 

well the funny thing is if you say they should be disciplined physically people automatically picture someone beating a child...thats not the case in most cases...just imposing your will works wonders ...you just have to be very firm and not back down...when bad teach them  its unacceptable ...when good praise and love them like no other

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On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2014 at 6:06 PM, jdoggydogg said:

Why Does Everyone Pretend There's A 'Spanking Debate'?

In April, an article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal analyzed two decades of data and concluded that spanking has no upside, and its downsides include increased risk for depression, anxiety, substance abuse and aggressive behavior later in life.

Canadians....:lmao:

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Have not read this thread but the answer is no.  Had a backdoor neighbor where the dad was a cop (I was about 10).  My parents were having a party where everyone was out on the deck.  We got to watch this ####### cop chase his kid around with belt in hand, jeans and a deep v undershirt.  Kid was just crying and crying saying not again not again.  #### that #######.

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15 minutes ago, xulf said:

Have not read this thread but the answer is no.  Had a backdoor neighbor where the dad was a cop (I was about 10).  My parents were having a party where everyone was out on the deck.  We got to watch this ####### cop chase his kid around with belt in hand, jeans and a deep v undershirt.  Kid was just crying and crying saying not again not again.  #### that #######.

big difference between abuse and discipline 

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6 minutes ago, BustedKnuckles said:

big difference between abuse and discipline 

Describe to me the line.  In detail.  I'm being serious here.  Are we talking about quantity or strength or frequency or what.  

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Just now, xulf said:

Describe to me the line.  In detail.  I'm being serious here.  Are we talking about quantity or strength or frequency or what.  

enjoyment vs heartbreaking...

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2 hours ago, TakiToki said:

Let me preface this by saying I am not a parent and likely never will be.

I am curious as to the power dynamic difference between #neverspank and #whoopumgood. Specifically I am wondering about what causes children to obey time-outs and such. What if a parent instructs a child to stand in the corner and the child refuses, no matter what is said? At some point the parent will physically make the child obey, right?

I guess my point is that intuitively, I'm not sure that a lack of spanking necessarily avoids the "might makes right"/"bigger is better" lesson. Even for a mostly well-behaved child, possibly the adherence to the time-outs or what have you is due to its recognition that at some point force would be applied.

Time outs and punishments like standing in a corner are counter-productive.  I am a complete believer in behavior modification (minus punishment) and if it can work with my autistic daughter it can work with any kid.  Children are actually very simple - they want their physical and emotional needs met.  If you do not reward 'bad' behavior then over time kids will learn that 'bad' behavior is not the way to get what they want. Time outs don't work because one of a child's major needs is attention and the time out process involves a lot of attention from parents.

Punishment actually does work - temporarily - and is a faster way to modify behavior than other techniques. However, it teaches kids to continue the behavior but avoid getting caught, to fear telling the truth, to not trust adults and fear them, and to rebel.

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4 hours ago, BustedKnuckles said:

yes ...lets reason with kids who are not listening to anything you say because they are so interested in behaving ...if you have good kids to begin with i guess none of this is important...but ive seen some pretty out of control and disrespectful kids ...and they dont care what you have to say 

Psst...maybe the reason "you have good kids to begin with" is because they weren't beaten when they were young.

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4 minutes ago, [scooter] said:

Psst...maybe the reason "you have good kids to begin with" is because they weren't beaten when they were young.

pssst...who said anything about beating kids?

 

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4 minutes ago, BustedKnuckles said:

pssst...who said anything about beating kids?

I'm sure it's just a light belting.

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Just now, [scooter] said:

I'm sure it's just a light belting.

you must be talking in generalities because i have never advocated a weapon to hit a kid with...as a matter of fact i never mentioned hitting a kid period  

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13 hours ago, MattFancy said:

So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?

Take away the phone or other electronics.  Extra chores.  Grounding.  Make them listen to Hillary/Trump.

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58 minutes ago, BassNBrew said:

Take away the phone or other electronics.  Extra chores.  Grounding.  Make them listen to Tim.

 

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how i wish it were acceptable to dole out punishment to adults that people think is ok for kids

i'd buy one of those big ### cowboy belt buckles with a sturdy leather belt and anytime someone did something that irritated me i would beat the ever living #### out of them with it

 

if it's ok for kids, must be ok for adults, right? :shrug:

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Just saw this thread, and have not read anything before this page. I am not a parent and sadly never will be. But the answer is no. Unequivocally no.

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Got a good whoopin when I deserved it. The pussification of America is complete. I bet withholding participation trophies is more effective now.

Edited by Lester Burnham

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