James Daulton
Footballguy
I would bet there's a direct inverse correlation between the amount of time someone physically disciplines their child and that person's IQ.
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Update: my teenage son is now a high school senior, captain of two varsity sports, top of his class, and going to a great school next year.Before I had kids, I thought that I would of course occasionally spank them in the course of administering discipline. But in the reality of being a parent, I've come to find the idea almost monstrous. And I've also come to find that punishment is not synonymous with administering discipline and can often actually be counter to helping my kids achieve the modified behavior that I'm after.
If you believe hitting your kid teaches them respect for your authority and convinces them that you are right, fine. I think it teaches them to fear you and to hide their mistakes. I've taught my kids that everyone makes mistakes, and what matters is not that you've made a mistake but how you've dealt with it -- by making any needed restitution and learning not to do it again. Hell, yes it was a ton more work than just swatting them on the butt when they did something wrong, but that work is what I signed up for when I had kids.
Last month, my son (now 15) was putting on his backpack at school and it brushed against the fire alarm. Five or 10 seconds later the fire alarm for the whole school went off and everyone had to leave the building. Nobody else saw it, but he thought maybe he had set it off -- so he went and found his teacher and together they went to the assistant principal. Turned out the alarm had been set off in another part of the building. But when I found out about it, it was a great moment in parenting for me -- when my son felt like he had made a mistake, he could own up to it and accept the responsibility rather than live in fear of punishment.
The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents. Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.Like the count up or count down parents 1......2......3
Good for you....Provide update after his time in college...Update: my teenage son is now a high school senior, captain of two varsity sports, top of his class, and going to a great school next year.
Pretty disciplined. Still never been hit by a parent, teacher or coach.
What does that even mean? You going to college with your kids so you can spank them when they stay out too late?Good for you....Provide update after his time in college...
Wow...It means it sounds like he raised a nice young man who is about to go off on his own and I hope he continues to be a good solid respectful person when all the decisions he makes are his own.What does that even mean? You going to college with your kids so you can spank them when they stay out too late?
Thanks for the nice words. I will keep you posted -- not too worried, to be honest. He's been making the majority of his own decisions for most of his senior year, I feel. But you never know what will happen.Wow...It means it sounds like he raised a nice young man who is about to go off on his own and I hope he continues to be a good solid respectful person when all the decisions he makes are his own.
First, an intelligent, non-lazy parent can discipline without physical force.America is not great anymore because we don't discipline our children. It's the teachers fault, its the police fault, it is their bosses fault etc. All kids need an attitude adjustment from time to time...I can't tell you how many coaches knocked me around growing up...Authority figures were to be respected...
The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents. Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.
not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wildYou can instill fear in someone without being physical
Yep. I always used the count down method. The kids knew it ended at zero, and if zero were reached there would be punishment. That could be a time-out, a corner (yes, made my kids stand in a corner), some type of restriction, or spanking.The counting down parents are much better than the counting up parents. Kids don't know when the counting is going to end so it's not really their fault.
Yes, three in two households. None have ever been hit. None have ever been in a lick of trouble and are respectful to adults and their peers.Have you raised any male teenagers and their friends?
Congrats on raising perfect children. 3 nonetheless!Yes, three in two households. None have ever been hit. None have ever been in a lick of trouble and are respectful to adults and their peers.
So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wild
Most don't want to admit that we are just animals...not once did i say anything about touching or even threatening someone ...even an an idiot can sense danger ...just being around certain types pf people you know ...out of fear ...not to do anything dumb and disrespectful....because that little part of your brain that recognizes danger doesnt want to tempt it....thats called respect thru fear ...but as you get older you learn that respect comes in all forms ...not just fear ....but punk kids dont learn to respect because mommy said to be respectful a thousand times ...thats just laughable ....they need to experience that they arent as badass as they think they are...its all primal ...even animals learn this in the wild
I hope Busted doesn't mind if I provide an answer...You try and reason with them and the ones that don't get it, get a swift kick in the ###...eventually they wake up.So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?
Speak for yourself bub.Most don't want to admit that we are just animals...
Never was afraid of my old man in the sense that he was just out of the blue going to kick my ###... But I learned early that you respect your elders, you respect authority, you can question but you don't talk back and you certainly never ever disrespect your mother... In the beginning it took a few times to figure this out (spanking/kick in the ### etc.) eventually all it took was a look and I knew I was out of line...Truthfully my mother was more of a badass than my father..She was a stay at home mom and had three teenage boys she had to keep in line...I wonder if todays parents are reluctant to spank because most don't stay at home, daycare raises a lot of children....Mom and dad have guilt feelings of not spending as much time with their kids....(Little Jimmy won't like me if I spank him)Not a shtick response based on my user name (other than use of the term "old man")...
Pretty interesting discussion to read through. I was more than knocked around as a kid - pretty much had the #### kicked out of me a few times a week from the age of 6 to 16 or so. Although, I've never really discussed it with anyone in depth to know if it was a normal level of violence for dads that acted that way or way over the line. I realize we're talking about using a belt here and not this necessarily. While I turned out okay as an adult, being a kid pretty much sucked for me always being afraid of getting my ### kicked for just about any reason that set the old man off. I, in turn, see a lot of the way my old man acted in myself with my temper and decided a few years ago I was not going to have children. I'm not sure if childhood played a role in that, but I'm sure it does on some level. I also, in my adult years have a pretty poor relationship with my old man due to harboring so much resentment even though he desperately wants to grow the relationship. Hopefully I get to a spot where I can let it go one day.
I'm probably an extreme example, but don't take a belt to a kid, ever, imo. I never connected on a real level with my father because I spent all my time being afraid of him.
Ahhh, so this is the alias Robbie Cooper is using. Makes sense.with fear comes respect....i dare someone to walk into a hells angel gathering and start acting disrespectful...it would never happen ...because you know what WOULD happen...so your most basic instinct tells you ''behave or else''...when you realize what respect feels like then you learn how to apply it in all aspects of your life without fear as a motivator....i can tell you if you walk into a hells angels gathering and show respect you will get it back in return...and when you feel how nice it is to both give and receive respect consider lesson learned. (hells angels just an example ...point is when your ### is on the line you dont act like a douch...thats called respect)
Or, day care will report even the tiniest hint of abuse at home.Never was afraid of my old man in the sense that he was just out of the blue going to kick my ###... But I learned early that you respect your elders, you respect authority, you can question but you don't talk back and you certainly never ever disrespect your mother... In the beginning it took a few times to figure this out (spanking/kick in the ### etc.) eventually all it took was a look and I knew I was out of line...Truthfully my mother was more of a badass than my father..She was a stay at home mom and had three teenage boys she had to keep in line...I wonder if todays parents are reluctant to spank because most don't stay at home, daycare raises a lot of children....Mom and dad have guilt feelings of not spending as much time with their kids....(Little Jimmy won't like me if I spank him)
Figure of speech...I have two grown children and two teenagers and everyone of them have been spanked (open hand swat on the ###). None of them had to be spanked after the age of seven or eight. I'll give you an example, My youngest daughter was about 3 or 4 and used to bite others, tried to talk with her, put her in timeout, still bit.. One day the two girls were in the bathtub...blood curdling scream, wife runs in the youngest had bit her sister...wife had had enough, snatched up the youngest and swatted her three times on her naked ###..Kid never bit another again..By the way, same kid is our sweetest now.Or, day care will report even the tiniest hint of abuse at home.
Unpack this "kick in the ###" you keep repeating. How does that work? Your daughter or son lips off to you and you wind up and kick them in the fanny like Jan Stenerud? I'm honestly trying to understand your discipline routine here.
No doubt that what you grew up with plays a big role in the decisions you've made as an adult.Not a shtick response based on my user name (other than use of the term "old man")...
Pretty interesting discussion to read through. I was more than knocked around as a kid - pretty much had the #### kicked out of me a few times a week from the age of 6 to 16 or so. Although, I've never really discussed it with anyone in depth to know if it was a normal level of violence for dads that acted that way or way over the line. I realize we're talking about using a belt here and not this necessarily. While I turned out okay as an adult, being a kid pretty much sucked for me always being afraid of getting my ### kicked for just about any reason that set the old man off. I, in turn, see a lot of the way my old man acted in myself with my temper and decided a few years ago I was not going to have children. I'm not sure if childhood played a role in that, but I'm sure it does on some level. I also, in my adult years have a pretty poor relationship with my old man due to harboring so much resentment even though he desperately wants to grow the relationship. Hopefully I get to a spot where I can let it go one day.
I'm probably an extreme example, but don't take a belt to a kid, ever, imo. I never connected on a real level with my father because I spent all my time being afraid of him.
the play is assert authority and or the danger of the possibility of severe consequences to certain actionsSo you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?
yes ...lets reason with kids who are not listening to anything you say because they are so interested in behaving ...if you have good kids to begin with i guess none of this is important...but ive seen some pretty out of control and disrespectful kids ...and they dont care what you have to sayproninja said:Having your kids knuckle under to you because they're scared you will hit them isn't going to teach them how to show respect to people they're not afraid of. You know that, right?
well the funny thing is if you say they should be disciplined physically people automatically picture someone beating a child...thats not the case in most cases...just imposing your will works wonders ...you just have to be very firm and not back down...when bad teach them its unacceptable ...when good praise and love them like no otherLet me preface this by saying I am not a parent and likely never will be.
I am curious as to the power dynamic difference between #neverspank and #whoopumgood. Specifically I am wondering about what causes children to obey time-outs and such. What if a parent instructs a child to stand in the corner and the child refuses, no matter what is said? At some point the parent will physically make the child obey, right?
I guess my point is that intuitively, I'm not sure that a lack of spanking necessarily avoids the "might makes right"/"bigger is better" lesson. Even for a mostly well-behaved child, possibly the adherence to the time-outs or what have you is due to its recognition that at some point force would be applied.
Canadians....Why Does Everyone Pretend There's A 'Spanking Debate'?
In April, an article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal analyzed two decades of data and concluded that spanking has no upside, and its downsides include increased risk for depression, anxiety, substance abuse and aggressive behavior later in life.
big difference between abuse and disciplineHave not read this thread but the answer is no. Had a backdoor neighbor where the dad was a cop (I was about 10). My parents were having a party where everyone was out on the deck. We got to watch this ####### cop chase his kid around with belt in hand, jeans and a deep v undershirt. Kid was just crying and crying saying not again not again. #### that #######.
Describe to me the line. In detail. I'm being serious here. Are we talking about quantity or strength or frequency or what.big difference between abuse and discipline
enjoyment vs heartbreaking...Describe to me the line. In detail. I'm being serious here. Are we talking about quantity or strength or frequency or what.
Time outs and punishments like standing in a corner are counter-productive. I am a complete believer in behavior modification (minus punishment) and if it can work with my autistic daughter it can work with any kid. Children are actually very simple - they want their physical and emotional needs met. If you do not reward 'bad' behavior then over time kids will learn that 'bad' behavior is not the way to get what they want. Time outs don't work because one of a child's major needs is attention and the time out process involves a lot of attention from parents.TakiToki said:Let me preface this by saying I am not a parent and likely never will be.
I am curious as to the power dynamic difference between #neverspank and #whoopumgood. Specifically I am wondering about what causes children to obey time-outs and such. What if a parent instructs a child to stand in the corner and the child refuses, no matter what is said? At some point the parent will physically make the child obey, right?
I guess my point is that intuitively, I'm not sure that a lack of spanking necessarily avoids the "might makes right"/"bigger is better" lesson. Even for a mostly well-behaved child, possibly the adherence to the time-outs or what have you is due to its recognition that at some point force would be applied.
Psst...maybe the reason "you have good kids to begin with" is because they weren't beaten when they were young.BustedKnuckles said:yes ...lets reason with kids who are not listening to anything you say because they are so interested in behaving ...if you have good kids to begin with i guess none of this is important...but ive seen some pretty out of control and disrespectful kids ...and they dont care what you have to say
pssst...who said anything about beating kids?Psst...maybe the reason "you have good kids to begin with" is because they weren't beaten when they were young.
I'm sure it's just a light belting.pssst...who said anything about beating kids?
you must be talking in generalities because i have never advocated a weapon to hit a kid with...as a matter of fact i never mentioned hitting a kid periodI'm sure it's just a light belting.
Take away the phone or other electronics. Extra chores. Grounding. Make them listen to Hillary/Trump.So you don't want to threaten or touch them, but then saying that just telling them doesn't work either. So what's the play here?
Take away the phone or other electronics. Extra chores. Grounding. Make them listen to Tim.